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Death records for 796 children at Tuam home published in full
Irish Central ^ | 6/17/2014 | Sheila Langan

Posted on 06/17/2014 4:24:37 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist

The names, ages, and causes of death of all 796 children who died at St. Mary's Home ... in Tuam, Co. Galway from 1925 to 1960 have been published in full, below.

The list is long, and reading it is a horrifying heartbreaking experience - though nowhere near as horrifying as the short lives of the children who died, or as heartbreaking as the sheer number of lost little lives.

When she began her research, Catherine Corless ... the local historian who set out to uncover the truth about the bones buried at the site of the former Mother and Baby Home, had no idea the number of deaths would be that high.

As she told Irish Central's Cahir O'Doherty ... she was simply looking for records - something neither the Order of the Bon Secours nuns, who ran the home, nor the Western Health Board, were able to help her with.

"Eventually I had the idea to contact the registry office in Galway. I remembered a law was enacted in 1932 to register every death in the country.

...

(Excerpt) Read more at irishcentral.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: bethanyhomes; bonsecours; catherinecorless; catholic; galway; ireland; irish; irishcentral; mary; orderofbonsecours; prolife; scandals; sheilalangan; stmarys; stmaryshome; tuam
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At SentinelSource.com, "Where are the missing Irish children buried?" 6/15/2014, the article there says that the Tuam registry office has the death records for children at the St. Mary's Mother and Baby Home.

Efforts to find burial records at local government offices by Corless apparently turned up nothing.

Death records were apparently then cross-referenced by Corless with local cemetery records - and TWO of the children were discovered nearby. Two...

1.) Where are the missing children buried? They simply didn't ascend into heaven bodily, right?

2.) If the children were indeed baptized, then surely someone can supply the baptismal records.

3.) If the children were indeed buried on consecrated ground, (baptized or not), then surely someone can supply the locations for all areas where consecrated ground was nearby.

4.) If the septic tank story has gotten in the way going forward, then reverse engineer this and supply everything needed in #2 and #3 to get to answering #1.

5.) If the children were indeed buried on consecrated ground, then why was the Tuam site consecrated in 1975?

By applying the laws of logic in 1-5, over the next two years or so there is no reason why this cannot be solved and the location for the missing children put to rest once and for all:

Thus, no need for Ad Hominem during the next two years or so against those who may try to discover the answer to #1.

1 posted on 06/17/2014 4:24:37 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; All; RegulatorCountry

Geeting somwhere it seems...

Everyone needs to/should read the article before commenting.

Thanks.


2 posted on 06/17/2014 4:26:10 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

You care so much you’re going over to help care for orphans, right?


3 posted on 06/17/2014 4:32:14 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Thank you for referencing that article Laissez-faire capitalist. Please bear in mind that the following critique is directed at the article and not at you.

Note that we're getting contradictory messages about this issue.

FR: Forbes: Why That Story About Irish Babies In A Septic Tank Is A Hoax

4 posted on 06/17/2014 4:33:13 PM PDT by Amendment10
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Take a look at the charts at the bottom of this article. Child mortality rates for the twentieth century.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4838a2.htm


5 posted on 06/17/2014 4:34:10 PM PDT by Gen.Blather
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

This story has already been debunked.


6 posted on 06/17/2014 4:44:21 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: goodwithagun

Define “debunked.”

There are still skeletal remains in that structure known to residents as a septic tank on the grounds of the former Bon Secours home in Tuam.

Irish Ordinance Survey Maps going back to 1840 show this structure repeatedly over the years and call it a septic tank. It fell into disuse in 1938 when a new sewer system came into use.

There are still 796 children who died at that home, from infants to age 9, for whom there is no record of burial.

There was a large cemetery across the road from the home. They’re not in there.


7 posted on 06/17/2014 4:57:57 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Amendment10

He knows that its a hoax and continues to post these.


8 posted on 06/17/2014 5:11:39 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; RegulatorCountry

More self-righteous hating today? Yawn.


9 posted on 06/17/2014 6:35:20 PM PDT by Albion Wilde ("The commenters are plenty but the thinkers are few." -- Walid Shoebat)
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To: RegulatorCountry
Culture.
10 posted on 06/17/2014 6:54:56 PM PDT by Domangart (Tho I walk Through the valley of Wal-Mart, I fear no man.)
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To: Albion Wilde

If Irish Catholics trying to get to the bottom of this are self-righteous haters, then I guess so. That’s who I’ve been citing.


11 posted on 06/17/2014 6:55:16 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry

There was a large cemetery across the road from the home. They’re not in there.
****************************
I don’t see anything unusual ... a cemetery would be expensive ... you have the land ,,, you have the gravediggers ,, you have the headstone... even at cost this is taking bread out of the mouths of the living ... the nuns were dirt poor.

As to the deaths I looked at the list ,, looks like I would expect ,, earlier deaths came quicker ... after 1950ish you see more lingering illnesses where the children failed to vanquish a disease but had a better shot at living due to antibiotics...

Maybe it was a septic tank years ago ,,, it wouldn’t be like today where a single piece cement tank is trucked in .. this had to be built on-site ,, probably from brick... as long as it was shoveled out and hosed down before being put to use as a “catacomb” for tiny bodies I’m OK with it ... Once again it’s a money thing ... as long as respect was shown for the dead I just don’t have a problem.


12 posted on 06/17/2014 8:10:40 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: Neidermeyer
as long as respect was shown for the dead I just don’t have a problem.

That actually is the problem, respect shown for the dead or the lack of it.

13 posted on 06/17/2014 8:19:18 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry

That actually is the problem, respect shown for the dead or the lack of it.
****************************
Regarding this story I haven’t seen anything published that addresses that subject ,,, I myself would be OK with being buried in that way if respect was shown ,,, buildings are repurposed all the time. I cannot imagine the nuns not being respectful.


14 posted on 06/17/2014 8:33:13 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: RegulatorCountry

That actually is the problem, respect shown for the dead or the lack of it.
****************************
Regarding this story I haven’t seen anything published that addresses that subject ,,, I myself would be OK with being buried in that way if respect was shown ,,, buildings are repurposed all the time. I cannot imagine the nuns not being respectful.


15 posted on 06/17/2014 8:33:32 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: Neidermeyer

The accusation is that children of unwed mothers were held in very low regard, born in sin, were therefore not baptized and would not have been permitted to be buried in consecrated ground because of this. The order that ran the home hasn’t said much, other than that the old records were turned over to county authorities. They’ve stated that they’d cooperate fully, but that’s the only direct reference that has been made.


16 posted on 06/17/2014 8:43:08 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry

You completely fail to understand the leftism among the Irish — you apparently believe that running articles that are the equivalent of what Code Pink would publish here about the u.s. are somehow valid because the authors were born in Ireland and raised Catholic. That does not make them true Christians or immune from hating the Catholic church, as a screeching minority on the left do in Ireland, just like in this country. You cannot be born into any Christian religion. You either accept Christ into your heart and work positively for change, or you don’t; and you masquerade as a Christian while doing everything you can to spew hate.


17 posted on 06/17/2014 8:53:02 PM PDT by Albion Wilde ("The commenters are plenty but the thinkers are few." -- Walid Shoebat)
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To: Albion Wilde

Wanting to get to the bottom of this does not constitute “hate.” If you’ve got a problem with the truth, then it’s you who has a problem, correct? The Archbishop Of Dublin has strongly advocated this governmental inquiry, which is now ongoing. What we have is Irish Catholics wanting to get to the bottom of this, the Irish church supporting it, irreligious people trying to make hay of it and misguided traditional Catholics outside of Ireland attempting to deflect the whole thing to make it go away because they perceive it to be an embarrassment to the church. I have friends in Ireland, they’re Catholic in and around Dublin. They want the light of day shone upon this and to make it right as best that can be managed. I agree with them. I don’t agree with trying to sweep it under the rug. That hasn’t turned out so well in the past, now has it?


18 posted on 06/17/2014 8:59:50 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry

Nope. Look it up. I won’t do your (hateful) homework for you.


19 posted on 06/18/2014 12:07:06 AM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: Amendment10; aposiopetic; rbmillerjr; Lowell1775; JPX2011; NKP_Vet; Jed Eckert; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

20 posted on 06/18/2014 12:20:36 AM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: Albion Wilde; RegulatorCountry

“Irish Central” is a notorious left-wing, anti-Catholic site founded and ran by Obama-supporting Niall O’Dowd, ran out of NY City. Peruse some of their articles and if it’s about religion it is always bashing the Catholic Church, praising same-sex marriage, loving Obama and hating the Pope.


21 posted on 06/18/2014 2:15:52 AM PDT by NKP_Vet ("Truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself")
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To: goodwithagun
Nope. Look it up. I won’t do your (hateful) homework for you.

I know the meaning of the word. It's your use of "debunked" that is questionable. If facts are "hateful," then lies are loving, I guess?

22 posted on 06/18/2014 5:43:25 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: NKP_Vet

The list of deaths, with date cause of death for each, was published. The nature of one of the sources publishing this list does not negate the factuality of it.

Here’s another:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/the-796-babies-who-died-in-tuam-30354967.html

Are you saying that there is some error in the information published, NKP_Vet? If so, I’d like to know what it might be.


23 posted on 06/18/2014 5:54:40 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

It seems the fiction has already morphed. Now instead of hundreds of bodies surprisingly “dumped into septic tanks” - we learn all the children who died at the Tuam home actually were registered with authorities, and had doctors and health officials verify the cause of their deaths.

The outright lies perpetrated by Catholic Church haters is downright shocking.


24 posted on 06/18/2014 8:09:00 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: RegulatorCountry

No a list is a list. There is not one shred of evidence that the nuns didn’t do everything humanly possible for these children, WHEN NO ONE ELSE WANTED THEM. People die and the child mortality rate in the early 20th century was astronomical. I had three sisters that died of fever in the 40s. In the late 19th century and early 20th century it was nothing for a woman to have 10 children and maybe 4 or five would reach adulthood.


25 posted on 06/18/2014 8:10:23 AM PDT by NKP_Vet ("Truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself")
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To: RegulatorCountry

If you really wanted to get to the bottom of it, you would do some research instead of playing the Inquisitor. Clearly, you have an agenda, and you don’t hesitate to use it. The facts may appear harsh to you out of context; but if you had any clue about the utter, dire poverty of Ireland and most of Europe at that time, you would understand how there were mass interments, and why the nuns spent what precious little money they had on clothing, food, furniture, soap and bedding for the children. Stop displaying your ignorance of who is writing this trash — the so-called “mass grave” was discovered in 1975, and suddenly it’s leftist, religion-hating, uber socialist “news” — and get off your soapbox.


26 posted on 06/18/2014 8:24:25 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("The commenters are plenty but the thinkers are few." -- Walid Shoebat)
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To: Albion Wilde

I’ve been following the news out of Ireland on this topic daily, unlike people who attack those who have bothered to stay informed.


27 posted on 06/18/2014 8:40:03 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: NKP_Vet

They weren’t orphans. In most instances they were born in the home and their mothers remained, but were not allowed to see their children. Didn’t want them bonding since the goal was adoption. Unwed mothers were hidden away and their children were a product of immorality, therefore they were not treated especially well. This was true of the society as a whole, as well as within these homes. If it makes you feel less like your church is being attacked, there was one of these homes out of more than ten that was at least nominally associated with Protestants. Children didn’t fare especially well there, either. They were buried individually when they died. Unmarked, though.


28 posted on 06/18/2014 9:41:20 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Regardless of the circumstances, the list is heart-wrenching.

Those poor children.

May God hold them close.


29 posted on 06/18/2014 2:29:34 PM PDT by Hulka
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To: RegulatorCountry; NKP_Vet; All

Here is the meme being proffered by Roman Catholics: “The missing Tuam children in a septic tank story is false!”

Reply to them: “So, that means that the children have therefore been found iof that is indeed true?”

Roman Catholics: “Um, well...”

The answer is obviously no. Even if the septic tank story is totally false, where are 796 children at? Arguing AGAINST the wseptic tank at Tuam story does not magically make 796 children un-disappear and be found.

They are still quite missing, aren’t they?

If it were 10, 20 or 30 that would be one thing. But 796?

No baptismal records or No burial records from the RCC and no proof of any consecrated ground burial. 3 strikes.

Butm, you know how it is, the RCC asks that others prove that they weren’t baptized, and that there was no consercrated gorund burial.


30 posted on 06/18/2014 3:38:41 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: goodwithagun; All; driftdiver; Domangart; Neidermeyer; PGR88; RegulatorCountry

What story has been debunked?

That 796 children at Tuam are still missing? No, not debunked. They are still missing.

How would a Tuam septic tank burial story being “debunked” prove that there are 796 children are not missing? It wouldn’t.

Logically, it wouldn’t and couldn’t.

Earth to goodw/: they are STILL missing.

The RCC, and/or the sisters of Bon Secours, have given no burial records, no baptismal records, and no proof of a consecrated ground burial to any of them.

The onus of proof is upon them. Burt, alas, others must prove that they aren’t missing, that they weren’t baptized, that they weren’t given a proper burial.

Saying “debunked” does not make 796 children magically reappear.


31 posted on 06/18/2014 3:46:47 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Amendment10
So, the Tuam septic tank burial means that 796 children aren't missing?

It proves that they have been found?

It proves that they were baptized, given a proper burial, and buried on consecrated ground?

It does none of these four.

32 posted on 06/18/2014 3:48:44 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Hulka
I have a question for you:

Would a supposed or even actual total “debunking” of the Tuam septic tank burial mean that we should hold the presses because that means now that the children have all been found?

Nope, it wouldn't mean that. Logically it wouldn't - it couldn't.

Nor would it prove that the 796 children were all 1.) baptized, and 2.) buried in consecrated ground.

Even the Bon Secours sisters have not given any proof for those two or have given any burial records.

Even Archbishop Nuery says that there is no proof of a burial in consecrated ground for any of the 796 missing children.

33 posted on 06/18/2014 3:53:12 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
That 796 children at Tuam are still missing? No, not debunked. They are still missing.

They're not missing - they are dead. And their deaths, and the causes thereof, were duly noted by the government authorities at the time. There is no scandal, in spite of all your attempts.

34 posted on 06/18/2014 3:56:15 PM PDT by PGR88
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

How are they missing?


35 posted on 06/18/2014 4:07:58 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Neidermeyer; RegulatorCountry
More from http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27728542:

    The Irish government has set up an inter-departmental group to look at the case.

    Justice Minister Frances Fitzgerald said decisions about criminal investigations fall to be considered by An Garda Siochána (the Irish police).

    She said her department had been liaising with them.

    "The purpose of criminal investigations is to lead to the prosecution of persons where the commission of offences has been established," she said.

    "Consideration will be given by government on how best to proceed in the interests of all those who were affected by extremely disturbing events."

    Earlier, Taoiseach (Irish prime minister) Enda Kenny said he wanted to know exactly what the scale of the situation in Tuam was and whether there were similar mass graves at other sites around the country.

    Mr Kenny said he asked Minister for Children Charlie Flanagan to draw together a number of officials to see what was involved and whether it was an isolated incident.

    He said a decision would then be taken in terms of what was the best thing to do to deal with "yet another element of our country's past".

    He said he understood the situation had been known about since 1972 and there were Dáil records relating to inspections dating back to the 1930s.

    The human rights organisation, Amnesty International, said any investigation must consider whether ill-treatment, neglect or other abuses were factors in the children's deaths.

    "A thorough investigation must be carried out into how these children died and if ill-treatment, neglect or other human rights abuses factored into their deaths," said John Dalhuisen of Amnesty.

    "We also need to know why these children were not afforded the respect of a proper and dignified burial.

    "The Irish government must not view this and other cases as merely historic and beyond its human rights obligations."

    The organisation added that the Tuam case should not be viewed in isolation, and called on the government to investigate allegations of ill-treatment of women and children in other homes.

    On Thursday, Catholic Archbishop of Tuam Michael Neary said he was "greatly shocked" by the news, adding that the church had no records about the burial.

    The home was run by nuns of the Bon Secours Sisters for 36 years.

    In a statement, Bon Secours said it handed its records to the state after it closed its doors.

    "In 1961 the home was closed. All records were returned to the local authority, and would now be within the Health Service Executive, County Galway," the order said.

    The nuns said they were committed to engaging with Catherine Corless, the historian who identified the extent of the burials, and the Tuam graveyard committee, which is seeking a permanent memorial at the site.

    They have welcomed the government's announcement of an investigation into what happened.

    RTE journalist Philip Boucher-Hayes said some people in Tuam, who have been trying to raise money to erect a plaque in memory of the children, were relieved that the story is now getting media attention.

    However, he said others in the town were embarrassed.

    He said: "Talk to anybody else and there's a bit of hand wringing, there's a bit of chest beating and a lot of 'ah sure, those were the times, weren't they, what's the point in going and unearthing it now'.

    "And I think that that is an embarrassment about our past that is probably replicated in so many places where there were industrial schools, where there where mother and baby homes and where there is now the suspicion in Cork, in west Meath, in Tipperary that there are very, very large communal graves of unmarked bodies, unknown about, un-commemorated, discarded bodies."

    He said maps showed that the area where the Tuam remains were found had been sewage tank that became disused in the 1930s after it began to leak.

    He said he had spoken to people who remembered seeing nuns "in the failing light of summer evenings, quite late in the evening, burying remains with workmen into this septic tank site".

    "There is a wealth of evidence there which points towards the nuns knowingly burying hundreds of bodies in a disused septic tank," he said.

    The Tuam home was one of 10 institutions in which about 35,000 unmarried pregnant women - so-called fallen women - are thought to have been sent.

    The children of these women were denied baptism and segregated from others at school. If they died at such facilities, they were also denied a Christian burial.

    County Galway death records showed that most of the children buried in the unmarked grave had died of sickness or malnutrition.

    Catholic broadcaster Fr Brian D'Arcy said the discovery was shocking.

    Speaking to Newstalk radio in the Republic of Ireland, he said: "When I heard it first, I really began to think that this was some atrocity that had happened in a foreign country or remnants of a famine in some other country or a bad regime, because that's what it sounds like.

    "It's just a dreadful, horrible thing and I simply couldn't believe that it was in my own lifetime as it were, happening in the country and in the same religion to which I belong to and have professed all my life."

    He said it was a "kind of hypocrisy" - both religious and political - that "keeps popping up from that era".

    "It's the kind of thing that says that some children are very valuable while, at the same time, it seems to have been this massive thing that children from unmarried mothers were not valuable."

    Two years ago, Irish justice minister Alan Shatter said he was considering calls for an investigation of a former Protestant-run Bethany Home in Dublin.

    Up to 219 children born at the mother and baby home between 1922 and 1949 died.

    In 2010, 40 infants from the home were discovered in unmarked graves in the nearby Mount Jerome cemetery.

Times have changed and society is not so quick to condemn unmarried mothers and their babies, putting them someplace away out of sight in order to pretend they don't exist. In Ireland back in the days of when this home and others operated, public funds WERE given to those operating these places, donations came in, babies were adopted in exchange for "donations" and even accusations of medical experimentation have come to light since this story broke. It is becoming more difficult to explain how and why so many of these children were malnourished and medically neglected.

As I predicted in another thread, this is already bringing disrepute to ALL pro-life Christians and, rather than excuse, rationalize or write it off to anti-Catholic bigotry, we should all be interested in getting to the truth and dealing with how we should proceed to recognize the humanity and worth of these forgotten innocent lives.

36 posted on 06/18/2014 4:16:54 PM PDT by boatbums (Proud member of the Free Republic Bible Thumpers Brigade.)
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To: driftdiver

The RCC and/or the Bon Secours sisters have a positive ID for where they are buried?

Giving that is the only way to prove that they aren’t missing.


37 posted on 06/18/2014 4:25:06 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

You’re a loony, and this thread needs pulled.


38 posted on 06/18/2014 4:33:22 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: boatbums

There appear to be more that just a few very difficult admissions in this article, but it’s from the Beeb, so it will be dismissed by FR partisans. So, I’m going to look for independent validation from Irish sources. That’s what I’ve been doing all along and getting bashed for it.


39 posted on 06/18/2014 4:34:41 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Whose missing? Do you have a location for everyone that existed in that time period?

Seriously, lithium is in your future.


40 posted on 06/18/2014 4:46:39 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: RegulatorCountry

The home the children were in was funded by the state. If any died of malnutrician blame the state. Catholic nuns get no salary. They devote their lives to helping others.


41 posted on 06/18/2014 4:48:01 PM PDT by NKP_Vet ("Truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself")
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To: boatbums

Those nuns did as well as they humanly could with the funds provided by the state. The school was not a Catholic-run institution. Nuns work for nothing, for the glory of God. The exact same way they have been taking care of the poorest since their inception.


42 posted on 06/18/2014 5:03:11 PM PDT by NKP_Vet ("Truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself")
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To: NKP_Vet

Americans in general have difficulties grasping the concept of a State Church. The state and the church in Ireland were not separate entities, NKP_Vet.


43 posted on 06/18/2014 5:29:52 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry
In most instances they were born in the home and their mothers remained, but were not allowed to see their children. Didn’t want them bonding since the goal was adoption ...

But that is in contradiction to the report by Dr Sutherland, who made great efforts to survey such homes. He reported that in the Tuam Home, after the infants were two months old, the mothers were allowed to have them beside them at night.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/author-battled-clergy-to-gain-firsthand-experience-of-motherandbaby-homes-30337249.html

Babies in these homes were routinely nursed by their mothers, because feeding them any other way was extremely expensive.

44 posted on 06/18/2014 6:20:39 PM PDT by BlackVeil ('The past is never dead. It's not even past.' William Faulkner)
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To: BlackVeil

I’d have to go and find the links, but several accounts of women who were in those homes for unwed mothers indicate that nursing babies were given to lactating women who were not their mothers. One woman talked about nursing multiple babies, none were hers.


45 posted on 06/18/2014 6:34:03 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry

Times were truly different then ,, these young women really were shunned by society and although I’m sure that many wanted to keep their children that many if not most were pressured into agreeing to adoption ,, just as today most women who abort are pressured by family and partners .. These homes may have been state funded or partially supported but they were on a budget that I am sure was near impossible to meet ... I am also sure that because of the relatively small number of deaths over such a long period of time that they worked hard to provide decent medical care... This was rural ... like backwoods West Virginia rural ... BUT WITH LESS MONEY!

Time to get the best understanding we can from the documents and move on ,, this facility closed 53 years ago ,, even a novice nun in 1961 would be in her 70’s now, and the nuns that were running the facility in it’s heyday are all dead.

Not everything in life is pretty , no matter how hard you work at it... sometimes your best (their best) isn’t enough ... but you keep at it and do your best .. and that’s what they did.


46 posted on 06/18/2014 7:15:23 PM PDT by Neidermeyer
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To: RegulatorCountry

Ireland, during that era, was one of the poorest countries in Europe, perhaps only surpassed by Albania. The state had very little money to provide, with far more needs than supply. The Catholic Church in Ireland, being predominantly made up of the poor, also had far more needs than money to fulfill them.

Could the nuns have done things differently or better with the land and resources they had access to? What land did they have? Could they afford to buy any of the surrounding farmland for more cemetery space (assuming the owners were willing to sell)? And few were, as land was scarce for the needed crops.

If only we could transport back in time see firsthand what they were dealing with, and to show them the error of their ways.

I toss these ideas and questions out not in an attempt to justify or rationalize anything, but rather with an (amateur) historian’s eye toward the context and conditions of the time, place and circumstance as opposed to through our lens of a wealthy society in the 21st century.

As an aside, my family came from (and many still live) in an area ranging from 1.5 and 5 miles of the site in Tuam, and there are 9 names on the list with my own last name.


47 posted on 06/18/2014 7:16:21 PM PDT by AbnSarge
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To: Neidermeyer
Describing a visit to Tuam, from the previously referenced Dr. Halliday Sutherland's 1965 book Irish Journey:

"The whole building was fresh and clean. In the garden at the back of the House, children were singing. I walked along the path and was mobbed by over a score of the younger children. They said nothing but each struggled to shake my hand. Their hands were clean and cool. Then I realised that to these children I was a potential adopter who might take some boy or girl away to a real home. It was pathetic. Finally I said: 'Children, I'm not holding a reception.' They stopped struggling and looked at me. Then a nun told them to stand on the lawn and sing me a song in Irish. This they did very sweetly. At the Dogs Home, Battersea, every dog barks at the visitors in the hope that it will be taken away."

In order to visit and write about the Bon Secours home at Tuam as well as the Magdalen Laundries, Dr. Sutherland had to seek permission from Bishop Michael John Brown, and was required to agree to edit anything that the Mother Superior wanted changed or removed.

So, was it a dirt poor, struggling place barely hanging on by a thread, or was it as described above by an internationally renowned doctor?

48 posted on 06/18/2014 7:41:00 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry

According to the list, the last death was five years before his book.


49 posted on 06/18/2014 7:46:23 PM PDT by AbnSarge
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To: AbnSarge

I hadn’t noticed that. The list contains those children who were recorded as having died there, but had no record of burial. The home continued in operation for five more years after the book was published.

Whatever was behind these unfortunate children apparently not receiving a proper Christian burial ended 10 years before the home closed, which would be 1951? The former septic tank in question ceased being used as such in 1938.


50 posted on 06/18/2014 7:56:58 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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