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Donít Sweat Russiaís Newest Nuclear Submarine
Medium.com Blog War is Boring ^ | June 22, 2014 | Robert Beckhusen

Posted on 06/22/2014 9:31:25 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

‘Severodvinsk’ is too expensive for mass production

It’s official. K-560 Severodvinsk, Moscow’s newest and most advanced nuclear attack submarine, has joined the Russian navy.

That’s bad news for most countries that could conceivably face Russia in a conflict. The expensive, quiet, 13,800-ton Yasen-class submarine is arguably one of the most sophisticated in the world—and she’s just the first of her class.

But the one country that doesn’t have much reason to worry is the United States, which has a significantly larger and more modern submarine force.

The Yasen class is also an exception to the rule in Russia, where most warships are obsolete or severely compromised by poor maintenance and training.

Russia took its time on the Yasen program. The project dates to the Cold War, as the Soviet Union planned a submarine that could hunt U.S. Nimitz-class supercarriers and also escort the USSR’s larger, nuclear weapon-carrying submarines within range of American cities.

This necessitated a submarine that was faster, quieter and deadlier than existing Akula and Sierra-class attack subs.

Then-president Dmitry Medvedev next to Severodvinsk in 2010. Photo via Wikipedia

Russia begun building Severodvinsk way back in 1993. The post-Soviet economic collapse forced the Kremlin to delay the program. But despite being years late, she’s still one of the most advanced submarines in the world.

She’s nuclear powered, for one. She has a more powerful sonar system, including a big sonar array mounted in the bow. The vessel also packs an impressive arsenal of torpedoes and 24 anti-ship cruise missiles of the Oniks and Kalibr types.

But while Severodvinsk is individually dangerous, a single submarine—or only a few—isn’t enough to defeat the U.S. Navy. The entire Yasen class is also expensive. It’s unclear exactly how much each one costs. Estimates range from $1 billion to $3 billion.

Back in the 1990s, the Russians wanted to build 30 of the class. The number has fluctuated since then and now the goal is nine, including Severodvinsk. Two of the class, Kazan and Novosibirsk, are currently under construction. That’s still enough to pose a serious threat to most countries Russia could conceivably come into conflict with.

But then you see the problem. This means Russia is spending more money than it needs to, to defeat potential foes other than America—and not enough to stand up against the U.S. Navy.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: russia; ssn; submarine

1 posted on 06/22/2014 9:31:25 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

These submarines are meant to counter any ambitions the Chinese may have on Siberian resources. Strategically it presents a challenge to defend Pacific Russia in the event of a chaotic war. The Russians would have to control the sea lanes if they hoped to successfully defend a land assault.


2 posted on 06/22/2014 9:39:46 PM PDT by allendale
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To: allendale
These submarines are meant to counter any ambitions the Chinese may have on Siberian resources. Strategically it presents a challenge to defend Pacific Russia in the event of a chaotic war. The Russians would have to control the sea lanes if they hoped to successfully defend a land assault.

Just because they are designed for a specific task does not mean they will not be used for other tasks.

I don't know how well even one would do against a carrier group, but I don't think anyone wants to find out.

3 posted on 06/22/2014 11:16:53 PM PDT by CurlyDave
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Looks like a Victor III
They make lousy subs


4 posted on 06/22/2014 11:33:01 PM PDT by mylife
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Wonder what her noise signature is.

I bet she beats and sings.


5 posted on 06/22/2014 11:37:54 PM PDT by mylife
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To: sukhoi-30mki

It took 21 years to bring to fruition?

Jeezus Louisus.


6 posted on 06/22/2014 11:45:34 PM PDT by mylife
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To: allendale

How do you figure? China shares a border with Russia thousands of miles long. If they want to grab Siberian resources, which I admit is a big Russian fear, they’re not going to load up an amphibious assault ship. They’ll attack straight across the border, probably through Mongolia.

A fancy Russian sub is not going to be much help in that kind of war.


7 posted on 06/23/2014 1:34:15 AM PDT by Ronin (Dumb, dependent and Democrat is no way to go through life - Rep. L. Gohmert, Tex)
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To: Ronin

A sub that can hit Chinese shipping and send cruise missiles into Beijing won’t be much help?


8 posted on 06/23/2014 1:37:35 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: Ronin
China is an export economy. Losing a bunch of these (pictured, bottom) will be very bad for business. I doubt they can grab and hold Siberia quick enough to off-set the immediate losses it would cause.


9 posted on 06/23/2014 1:40:11 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: GeronL

Not the point, Geron. Sure, if there was a general invasion of Siberia by PLA forces, that sub would play a significant role in making life difficult for the PLAN, but I doubt if they would sic it on container ships. The Liaoning would be a much more scrumptious target. And, besides that, Russia still has a significant array of surface and submarine assets to go after merchantmen if that is indeed their desire.

My point is that if the Chinese ever got a wild hair up their butts and decided to invade and annex a chunk of Siberia, that sub is not going to be much use in the land battles that would inevitably result, so I strongly doubt it was designed primarily, or even incidentally to deter Chinese aggression.

That’s a hunter killer. A creature of the depths. It’s prey is other submarines or major surface combatants. Of course it has a strategic mission brief as well, but if they get to the point where they are flinging cruise missiles around, Russia’s Strategic Rocket Forces and short ranged IRBMs would be a much more potent worry.


10 posted on 06/23/2014 2:54:30 AM PDT by Ronin (Dumb, dependent and Democrat is no way to go through life - Rep. L. Gohmert, Tex)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
escort the USSR’s larger, nuclear weapon-carrying submarines within range of American cities.

Why would they target American 'rat nests? American cities do more to destroy America than any attack could.

11 posted on 06/23/2014 4:00:24 AM PDT by Reeses
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To: mylife

One could say the same for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. They stood up that program office BEFORE I moved to DC Metro in 1992. . .


12 posted on 06/23/2014 4:37:18 AM PDT by Salgak
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Cute, Cute but with a large BS factor. At 13,800 tons it can be quiet but not fast. If the shroud over the prop is real then there is not enough prop to make anywhere near 35 knots. And Ivan has yet to work up the nerve to spend real money on sound isolating flex hose or equipment mounts. At best what it might do is block a harbor someplace. But it’s not going to keep up with a supercarrier fleet. I used to build this stuff in a former life and the numbers with respect to what one can shove thru the water and the power required really are carved in naval stone. The fact that Ivan is publicizing the launch smacks more of blufing/crowing than sending an actual message of strength. Like when they gassed up the Bears and made a few passes by Alaska a few years ago.


13 posted on 06/23/2014 11:06:03 AM PDT by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
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To: sukhoi-30mki; All

Looks like a big “immersion” blender...


14 posted on 06/23/2014 4:44:06 PM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Will work for a new Kidney...)
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To: Reeses

Actually, in ap political and world conquest sense, that is a very good point...

Our threat is not annihilation in a nuclear flash (if you live in a big city...

But a targeted attack from a terrorist led jihad, that is waiting for the opportunity to present itself...It is not a matter of who, or what, it is when...

Russian, Chinese...It is not in their best interest to destroy this country anymore...Only allow it to further be subjugated and put on the verge of collapse, so they can emerge as victors on the world stage...

And we become slaves to the new norm...Which in some cases we already are...


15 posted on 06/23/2014 4:48:59 PM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Will work for a new Kidney...)
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To: allendale

“These submarines are meant to counter any ambitions the Chinese may have on Siberian resources.”

This is crazy. Construction began in 1993. I am guessing that design was begun before Reagan left office.

This thing was squarely aimed at the USA.

AND FURTHERMORE, if china wants siberia, china will not go 3000 miles OUT OF THEIR WAY to try a COMPLICATED AMPHIBIOUS LANDING when china SHARES A 2000 MILE LONG LAND BORDER WITH SIBERIA.

I MEAN ARE YOU NUTS.


16 posted on 06/23/2014 7:40:06 PM PDT by staytrue
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To: Reeses

“Why would they target American ‘rat nests? American cities do more to destroy America than any attack could. “

Have you been to Manhatan, San Jose or Boston ?

These are liberal but great contributing cities not to mention the scientific elites are there at MIT, NYU and Stanford/Berkeley.


17 posted on 06/23/2014 7:45:31 PM PDT by staytrue
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: staytrue

I meant hitting their government buildings.


19 posted on 06/23/2014 7:49:57 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: GeronL

Destroying the govt. buildings, much like our govt. buildings would not hurt them that much. It might even help.

Furthermore, the Chinese govt. knows whats important and their most important govt. functions are also in Shanghai and Hong Kong.


20 posted on 06/23/2014 7:51:46 PM PDT by staytrue
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To: staytrue

lol. If destroying their politburo makes them a better country, let’s get to it.


21 posted on 06/23/2014 7:55:46 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Does it have a caterpillar drive?


22 posted on 06/23/2014 7:57:15 PM PDT by Doomonyou (Let them eat Lead.)
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To: staytrue

Really? You think that if Eastern Siberia were the target of an invasion its coast and adjacent sea lanes would not be of critical and strategic importance importance? You think China would take what it wants, be secure in its conquest and leave Pacific Siberia in Russian control? That submarine and others like it would be critically important in controlling those sea lanes. Read Morrison and you’ll get at least a rudimentary understanding so you won’t embarrass yourself with absurd statements.


23 posted on 06/23/2014 9:19:59 PM PDT by allendale
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To: staytrue; All

“This thread really concerns me that Free Republic is populated by idiots.”

Wow, that’s pretty harsh...Care to take a chance at an apology???

If not, and you wish to keep digging that hole yer in...By all means seek life and entertainment elsewhere with what you believe to be more a more “intelligent” population...

Remember, “all” in the “To:” box up there if you have the virtue to say anything to the FReepers in this discussion...

If not, may the yoke that is your burden be light upon your shoulders as you seek other realms in the time you have left on this earth...


24 posted on 06/24/2014 4:00:32 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Will work for a new Kidney...)
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To: stevie_d_64

“Wow, that’s pretty harsh...Care to take a chance at an apology???”

Nope. All the posters who think this sub was aimed at stopping a Chinese invasion of Siberia is an idiot.

It is like if Canada thought the USA wanted to invade that they would build a nuclear submarine to stop it.

First, China will likely buy the resources it needs rather than invading. China has a really good capitalist economy vs. a poor one in Russia. Buying is more likely.

Second, the USA is more likely to invade Canada than China invading Siberia. The russian military is an even match for china. The canadian military is no match for the USA. And China has many undeveloped resources of its own, not so much in the USA.

Third, China will invade mongolia for resources before it goes into Siberia.

Fourth, If Canada really did build a submarine to stop a USA invasion, it would be a short range and very cheap diesel/electric. Nuclear subs are made to go a very long time without fuel. They are power projecting ocean goers, NOT SHORT RANGE COASTAL DEFENSE.

Fifth, this sub was designed in the 80’s and started construction in the 90’s well before China’s ascent.

NO, I AM NOT APOLOGIZING. I AM DOUBLING DOWN, TRIPLING DOWN MAYBE EVEN QUADRUPLING DOWN ON IT.


25 posted on 06/24/2014 4:20:41 AM PDT by staytrue
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To: staytrue

“NO, I AM NOT APOLOGIZING. I AM DOUBLING DOWN, TRIPLING DOWN MAYBE EVEN QUADRUPLING DOWN ON IT.”

Well, that drivel is certainly your opinion, you are certainly free to express that, far be it from me, or anyone else, to say you cannot do so...

Considering how old your account is on this website, I would think you to be a little more diplomatic in your tone when you loose forth such a blanket statement that this thread, or even the website, is full of idiots...

Remember, the shovel is still in your hand(s)...I want to see how far down you dig...I’ll toss you a flashlight if it gets too dark down there...

I would suggest instead of posting some additional personal opinion in response to my inquiry, you instead, pull the rip cord and save your account...

I believe that is a reasonable thing to do, on your part...Then we can all let this go like water under a bridge...

Whatya say???


26 posted on 06/24/2014 4:31:07 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Will work for a new Kidney...)
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To: stevie_d_64

Manchuria and Mongolia have more promising resources than siberia and are more easily accessed.

My beef is, China is not invading Siberia, this sub is not for coastal defense, if china were to invade, it would not be an amphibious assault, the sub is a cold war relic clearly aimed at attacking US subs.


27 posted on 06/24/2014 4:41:25 AM PDT by staytrue
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To: mylife

I dunno...We were all over a Victor III about 400 miles off of San Francisco back in 1987, IIRC...

The captain of that boat was pretty good at utilizing thermal layers, and creeping slow and low along the bottom trying to evade us...It was a good match for about 18-20 hours while we played...

We’d lose him every now and then, but re-acquire after someone farted, or dropped something (transients) in that boat...

At the end of the time we had, the guy actually surfaced, gave us a nice “Good game” signal, and they motored off west for about 4 hours...The crew was even coming out on deck for a little sun as we parted ways...

The detection gear between us and the Kuril’s kept him generally going home till the intel let them drop off the boards...

I really think it is the skill of the crews “first”, and a little of the boat second...

A sub can probably get off a few shots, might even get lucky, but once those pants have dropped, there IS a whole lot of attention going to be put on you in very short order...And we do not let go until it goes away...

The biggest threat I know about is the diesel-electric boats out there...In sufficient number and in waters that degregate our equipment, that is the most threatening environment to play in...But that is common knowledge...

Just my experience and opinion...


28 posted on 06/24/2014 4:45:18 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Will work for a new Kidney...)
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To: staytrue

I’ll kick in the point that most container ships China uses to ship goods are registered in other countries. Russia sinking a 3rd party ship is an act of war against that country.


29 posted on 06/24/2014 4:52:13 AM PDT by Justa
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To: stevie_d_64

“Then we can all let this go like water under a bridge...

Whatya say???”

There used to be a game show “who wants to be a millionaire” where the punch line was “Final answer”

Final answer is “think this sub is to stop a chinese invasion is stupid”

And with that this is my final post on FR for a while.


30 posted on 06/24/2014 4:52:33 AM PDT by staytrue
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To: staytrue

Manchuria and Mongolia have more promising resources than siberia and are more easily accessed.


Ok, ding-a-ling...You wanna tell me what I already know about “resources” that are in the Manch and Mongol area??? I’ll even give you a hint...Maybe you’ll even put it together...

Precious...And...wait for it...Metals/minerals???


Why do you have a beef???

And so the Russians are replacing their beat up sub fleet with some newer stuff for blue water ops...

Do you not believe that our submariners can handle this nuke boat???

Oh they of little faith...

I have a recommendation for you...Instead of the Monster energy drinks and sugary bars and candy...You unplug, go git yerself a good breakfast today, not McDonalds!!! But something hearty, put hair on yer chest, drink some chamomile tea and take a good nap...It’ll do wonders for you...

Why get your bowels in an uproar trying to correct peoples focus on global diplomacy and failed foreign policy from this government, when people like us (idiots, remember?) cannot effect that failure, or correct it...

You take care now, ya hear...Bye...


31 posted on 06/24/2014 4:59:09 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Will work for a new Kidney...)
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To: staytrue

No prob bob...

Have a nice day...


32 posted on 06/24/2014 5:00:29 AM PDT by stevie_d_64 (Will work for a new Kidney...)
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To: staytrue
Have you been to Manhatan, San Jose or Boston ?

Yes, spent time in all. San Jose voted 70% for Omugabe, Boston 77%, Manhattan 86%. The city lifestyle is heavy on sharing community property and trashing it accordingly, very low on personal ownership, low on personal freedoms due to 1 million next door neighbors, low on caring about or even knowing the names of neighbors. This is communism, not America. Cities are great as work hubs up to a point, but make for a noisy/dirty place to live. America is slowly dying because of the city cancer.

The cities are actually draining out but the Democrats solve that problem by importing millions of third worlders, who are naturally inclined to loot America. If we need to destroy a country, nuking the cities would be the last way to go about it.

33 posted on 06/24/2014 7:43:07 AM PDT by Reeses
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To: staytrue
And with that this is my final post on FR for a while.

"There was much rejoicing"

/johnny

34 posted on 06/25/2014 8:13:14 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: mylife

In the graph it shows the maximum depth as only 600 m? Why can’t this sub go even deeper? Or is this depth the standard depth for most all submarines?


35 posted on 06/19/2015 8:07:53 AM PDT by Mr Apple (http://www.angelfire.com/md2/Ldotvets/Bubba_47.html)
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To: cherokee1

May I pose the same question to you that I posed to myeline - that I bring up in my post #35? Perhaps you and/or Thank you.


36 posted on 06/19/2015 8:14:20 AM PDT by Mr Apple (http://www.angelfire.com/md2/Ldotvets/Bubba_47.html)
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To: cherokee1

* mylife


37 posted on 06/19/2015 8:15:21 AM PDT by Mr Apple (http://www.angelfire.com/md2/Ldotvets/Bubba_47.html)
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To: Mr Apple

That is all classified.


38 posted on 06/19/2015 3:07:44 PM PDT by mylife ("The roar of the masses could be farts")
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To: mylife

Opps me; thank you for your reply to an old article. :)


39 posted on 06/20/2015 7:15:19 AM PDT by Mr Apple (http://www.angelfire.com/md2/Ldotvets/Bubba_47.html)
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To: cherokee1

Prop does look small for that much boat.


40 posted on 06/20/2015 7:22:22 AM PDT by going hot (Happiness is a momma deuce)
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To: Mr Apple

We do not speak of crush depths

Tommy Cox, Kursk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqiZdFVYp2c


41 posted on 06/20/2015 7:26:51 AM PDT by mylife ("The roar of the masses could be farts")
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Good morning.

Just between you and me, that can't be the prop of that sub in the picture. They haven't added the prop yet, right?

5.56mm

42 posted on 06/20/2015 7:29:57 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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Hat Tip, Tommy Cox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqiZdFVYp2c&list=RDGqiZdFVYp2c#t=10


43 posted on 06/20/2015 8:22:16 AM PDT by mylife ("The roar of the masses could be farts")
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