Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Questions and Answers on Lost Emails in I.R.S. Scandal
New York Times ^ | June 23, 2014 | By DAVID S. JOACHIM

Posted on 06/23/2014 4:10:32 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer

Q. Even if Ms. Lerner’s hard drive crashed, how could her emails have just disappeared? Weren’t they backed up?

A. Apparently not, at least not permanently. Before it changed its storage policies last year, the I.R.S. backed up emails onto old-fashioned tape drives. Every six months, it would reuse those tapes, thus erasing the previous batch.

Q. Oh come on. Really? Even my Gmail account archives everything.

A. Many government agencies and big corporations still use older email systems that aren’t in the “cloud” the way that Gmail is. They may have tens of thousands of employees, as the I.R.S. does, making them slow to modernize.

Q. These I.R.S. investigations have been going on for more than a year, and Ms. Lerner’s hard drive crashed three years ago. Why are we just hearing about these lost emails now?

A. Republicans in Congress want to know the same thing.

Q. What is the White House saying about all of this?

A. Last week Jay Carney said “We found zero emails – sorry to disappoint – between Lois Lerner and anyone within the E.O.P. during this period,” he said, using shorthand for the Executive Office of the President.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: email; irs; journalism; teaparty

1 posted on 06/23/2014 4:10:32 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

I read the article. It’s the “we’re incompetent” defense.

Lerner’s taking the Fifth is a bigger barrier than it first appeared, because she can’t be asked what her memory is as to who she emailed. If she could, their computer drives and servers could be searched. But, if she answered the question honestly ( a stretch, I know) she’d be a dead woman, not walking for long.


2 posted on 06/23/2014 4:14:56 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

Q: Will the New York Times print anything that remotely runs counter to the administration narrative that this was just a horrible mistake?

A: No way in Hell.


3 posted on 06/23/2014 4:17:03 PM PDT by Opinionated Blowhard ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

“Last week Jay Carney said “We found zero emails – sorry to disappoint ... “

Equivocation and sarcasm—he’s not saying they don’t exist, just that `we’ didn’t find any, and phony regret.
Lyin’ looser.


4 posted on 06/23/2014 4:18:43 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

Did Lerner have a Blackberry or smart phone, synced to her email?

If so, her emails are on other servers.


5 posted on 06/23/2014 4:19:47 PM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

The IRS should be held to the same record keeping standards that they impose on taxpayers. If any business under IRS audit gave the lame excuse that their records just happened to be lost by a hard drive crash and that there was both no back up and the physical hard drive just happened to be destroyed, the executives would be under quick indictment for obstructing justice, plus any other punishment the IRS could come up with. IRS officials should all be tried for obstructing justice.


6 posted on 06/23/2014 4:21:41 PM PDT by The Great RJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pearls Before Swine

She pleads the 5th and all her emails are destroyed.

This is 2014. Only a fool would believe this lie.


7 posted on 06/23/2014 4:23:31 PM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer (The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

Appoint a special prosecuter charge them with obstruction then make them give their excuses in court to a jury.


8 posted on 06/23/2014 4:23:58 PM PDT by Cubs Fan (liberalism is a cancer that destroys everything it gets control of.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

Truly unbelievable. Government at all levels has offsite backup of emails. If they were erased by someone, it must have been that someone wanted to expunge a trail of dirty tricks.


9 posted on 06/23/2014 4:24:22 PM PDT by Seeing More Clearly Now
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

I’d expect nothing less from the NYT, but this is not going to fly either. It’s sweet sounding bullshit, but it’s still bullshit and nobody is going to believe it any more than they believed the Watergate erasures.


10 posted on 06/23/2014 4:24:35 PM PDT by Ronin (Dumb, dependent and Democrat is no way to go through life - Rep. L. Gohmert, Tex)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ronin

Those emails will be found, their backed up in multiple places and no “dog ate my homework” excuse will change that reality.


11 posted on 06/23/2014 4:25:45 PM PDT by gwgn02
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Pearls Before Swine
I read the article as the government propaganda arm saying:

There's nothing to see here... we have asked all the probing questions the Republican Party wanted asked, and here are the best answers you will get because we are professional journalists and it is our job to do what we have done and report the facts.

In FIFA World Cup Action today...


12 posted on 06/23/2014 4:26:55 PM PDT by Rodamala
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Pearls Before Swine

By taking the 5th and burying the computer no one really knows what actual Email address she used for these critical communications. It could well be something other than a government provide address. There are endless free accounts available.

What needs to happen is the IP address of her office/computer needs to be searched at all the free Email hosting companies and find all the Email addresses used by her/office. If found then all the Emails and who they were with can be found too.


13 posted on 06/23/2014 4:27:05 PM PDT by DB
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: lacrew
Did Lerner have a Blackberry or smart phone, synced to her email? If so, her emails are on other servers.

There are potentially all kinds of possibilities of where they are, the ones you mentioned, the email recipients, the back up service the IRS used then conveniently terminated etc.

These all need to be subpeonaed by a special prosecutor.

BTW great tagline

14 posted on 06/23/2014 4:27:52 PM PDT by Cubs Fan (liberalism is a cancer that destroys everything it gets control of.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

While I would love for these emails to be found and made public it simply won’t matter in the end.

These people, all of them, operate above and outside of the law and absolutely nothing will happen to anyone. They could have video tape of Obama and Lerner actually planning out the targeting of Tea Party groups and it STILL wouldn’t matter. NOBODY WILL BE PUNISHED FOR THIS... EVER.

It really is the case that ONLY we peasants must obey the law.


15 posted on 06/23/2014 4:28:31 PM PDT by navyguy (The National Reset Button is pushed with the trigger finger.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

Evidently “Congress” isn’t involved, only “republicans”.

Q. Why do Congressional investigators want the emails?

A. Republicans say they want to determine whether the I.R.S. continued to delay applications..........

A huge portion of the article is the last question, when the democrats get their big response.


16 posted on 06/23/2014 4:30:10 PM PDT by ansel12 (( Rand Paul---What a tragedy if America wouldn't have gotten to see Barack Obama as a leader.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lacrew
Did Lerner have a Blackberry or smart phone, synced to her email? If so, her emails are on other servers.

Not necessarily. Blackberry servers and the like don't usually keep any mail on them after it's been forwarded. They just provide a conduit between the exchange server and the Internet access to the cellular wireless network. It comes in and goes out without being stored permanently.

17 posted on 06/23/2014 4:32:35 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: DB
What needs to happen is the IP address of her office/computer needs to be searched at all the free Email hosting companies and find all the Email addresses used by her/office. If found then all the Emails and who they were with can be found too.

Not with NAT-ed addresses they won't. Not likely.

18 posted on 06/23/2014 4:39:19 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

A: Horse s-


19 posted on 06/23/2014 4:41:32 PM PDT by servo1969
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ramius

If she had a Blackberry, I see options.

First of all, the local server at her office may not save the content of her emails, but it should log date/time/recipient of emails - and all of her recipients’ computers could be searched.

But also all of the Blackberry traffic goes through RIM’s (or whatever the name is now) servers in Canada. There is the same opportunity for logging there. And, twice I had to wipe my OS from my Blackberry...after re-install, over a period of hours my personalized settings all came back. I assume info on my Blackberry had been saved on RIM’s server and automatically retrieved. Seems there is a chance emails were saved there too.

And if she’s got an Android (smart phone), good grief. In order to use the thing for anything useful, you have to set up a Google Store account...and once that’s done, I guarantee Google has at very least data-mined every email...and probably saved them all...no GMAIL account required.

It just boggles my mind that somebody who was genuinely looking for an electronic trail could not find anything.

And it boggles my mind that the IRS is apparently not bound by the same rules of civil procedure that the rest of us are? In the civilian world, you don’t just have to save the email...you have to save emails in a specific manner that makes them searchable. But the IRS can just delete the backup tape....after 6 months? I really just can’t believe that.


20 posted on 06/23/2014 5:01:43 PM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

The New York Slimes! So reliable. I loved their Q&A on the Holocaust released way back when

Q - Are Jews facing persecution in Germany?
A - No

Q - What are the camps where Jews are being sent for?
A - Character and team building

Q - Is Hitler a tyrnat?
A - Of course not

Courtesy of the slimesters


21 posted on 06/23/2014 5:02:13 PM PDT by Viennacon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DB

Interesting proposition. But, aren’t there a lot of private sector email providers, both free and paid? Too many to search?


22 posted on 06/23/2014 5:02:21 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

Even if Ms. Lerner’s hard drive crashed, how could her emails have just disappeared? Weren’t they backed up?

A. Apparently not, at least not permanently. Before it changed its storage policies last year, the I.R.S. backed up emails onto old-fashioned tape drives. Every six months, it would reuse those tapes, thus erasing the previous batch.


Lies.

I’ve been using one form or another of email since the late 1980’s. There is no such thing as c drive email storage except where one might back up archive stuff. I used it a bit back when outlook was limited. But even then, the company had their own backups, partly because they were REQUIRED BY LAW to save them.

At this time, only a fool would believe incompetence is the reason these emails were not backed up, or even that they were not backed up.

This whole thing is a test to see just how gullible we are.


23 posted on 06/23/2014 5:02:22 PM PDT by cuban leaf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lacrew

Your blackberry settings were most likely pushed out from the blackberry server, not from RIM. There may be some logging on the BB server, but chances aren’t good that they go back very far.


24 posted on 06/23/2014 5:10:31 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Ramius

The IP address may well be office wide and not each individual computer but it still hugely narrows down all the Email addresses connected to that office. Many can be eliminated once found leaving Lerners. Then after that, it would have likely been Web mail which uses a browser to access. Browsers often leaves a unique signature that the Webmail hosting company would have logged.

So much more likely than you might think.


25 posted on 06/23/2014 5:40:42 PM PDT by DB
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Pearls Before Swine
It is unlikely to have been paid. That leaves a direct trail to an individual making the payments.

There are not that many free Webmail hosts. It is mostly a matter of will to pursue it.

26 posted on 06/23/2014 5:44:57 PM PDT by DB
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

Get from her blackberry?


27 posted on 06/23/2014 5:45:34 PM PDT by databoss
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DB

Just ask the Koch brothers or some other deep pockets conservatives to offer a $1 million reward for a “forensic IT solution” to the problem.

$1 million, tax free, of course, anonymously and a Mossad managed witness protection program safe haven.

Any patriotic IT sleuths with backbone and .... um... the cajones?


28 posted on 06/23/2014 5:50:16 PM PDT by BwanaNdege ( "For those who have fought for it, Life bears a savor the protected will never know")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Viennacon

Q-”Is Stalin starving Ukrainians.”

A-”No. He put the entire country of Ukraine on a diet because they were all very fat.”


29 posted on 06/23/2014 6:00:03 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

You only need to ask the IRSA commissioner one question:

When your computer crashed, did you or did you not call the FBI and ask them to send over their computer forensic experts to retrieve the information?

Since the IRS was under investigation by the congress, it would have been and is obvious that it was a matter of utmost urgency that the justice department would be informed and an attempt made to recover the information.

So did the IRS ask for help or not?

“Not” would imply willful action to destroy or at the very least hide evidence.


30 posted on 06/23/2014 6:17:13 PM PDT by old curmudgeon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ramius

they have some of lerners blackberry emails from right after her drive crashed


31 posted on 06/23/2014 6:21:04 PM PDT by rolling_stone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Cubs Fan

Felony obstruction of justice.


32 posted on 06/23/2014 7:07:00 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

Q. Will this dead-end and roadblock have consequences?

A. We’ll find out in November.


33 posted on 06/23/2014 7:32:25 PM PDT by Huskrrrr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer

Tried to get some answers from my nephew, a twenty year government IT person, at party over the weekend - says the IRS and most government agencies don’t use the general internet but their own internal system - thus usual backups on public servers aren’t available - said the backup system probably used in their system involved a bank of seven tapes, but that data was written to them in pretty much a random order so that it would be hard to go back and track items according to any set criteria - said the data would have been overwritten eventually, but that the system is so poor that new tapes never used before often are defective - all that having been said, he still thinks the emails were deliberately disappeared......


34 posted on 06/23/2014 9:19:21 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Oldeconomybuyer; GeronL
A. Last week Jay Carney said “We found zero emails – sorry to disappoint – between Lois Lerner and anyone within the E.O.P. during this period,” he said, using shorthand for the Executive Office of the President.

Does this mean that he checked the White House servers for any of Lois' emails?

And if her computer crashed BEFORE the offsite backup service was canceled, why was she unable to secure the backup copies?

And what sort of communications were there about concern for any lost communications?

If you lose your computer, your current workload will suffer because ALL of your communication has been lost.

What evidence has been provided to show this concern with daily operations?

35 posted on 06/24/2014 4:43:50 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (The new witchhunt: "Do you NOW, . . . or have you EVER , . . supported traditional marriage?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: a fool in paradise

hang on... all those email boxes of other people somehow lost emails from Lois Lerner? How did the recipients lose those received emails?


36 posted on 06/24/2014 11:43:24 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: GeronL

That’s the question I’m trying to raise, plenty of people involved in the chain of communications, funny how the focus is on one participant’s “lost” computer. Plenty of other places to find copies of the emails.

Also I want to see what kind of emails came up AFTER the crash when she requested a new computer and had to explain to everyone why her work was backlogging because day to day operations emails had been lost (allegedly).


37 posted on 06/24/2014 11:54:56 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (The new witchhunt: "Do you NOW, . . . or have you EVER , . . supported traditional marriage?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: a fool in paradise

Exactly, their story doesn’t make any sense.


38 posted on 06/24/2014 12:01:24 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: rolling_stone
they have some of lerners blackberry emails from right after her drive crashed

Right. Things still on her BB device.

39 posted on 06/25/2014 2:06:14 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: DB
It is unlikely to have been paid. That leaves a direct trail to an individual making the payments. There are not that many free Webmail hosts. It is mostly a matter of will to pursue it.

Good point DB...

40 posted on 06/26/2014 5:00:06 AM PDT by GOPJ (Hey IRS - those receipts you wanted? The dog ate 'em. -New Name:"Washington Thinskins" -FR. coloeo)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson