Posted on 06/24/2014 10:23:55 AM PDT by Fitzy_888
A gang of men attacked an American student while he was drinking in the street - grabbing a glass bottle from his hands and smashing it over his head, a court was told.
Francesco Hounye, 23, from Florida, had been in Britain for just three days when he was set upon by the men while he was walking home with a friend in Shadwell, east London.
Shaleem Uddin, 20, Shadhat Hussain, 19, Kamrul Hussain, 22, and Massom Rahman, 22, targeted Mr Hounye when they saw him swigging from a bottle of Jagermeister.
(VIDEO)
They then chased him, beat him, and smashed the bottle over his head, Snaresbrook Crown Court heard.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
Your argument is so full of holes it’s difficult to find a starting place. There are lots of data that show Britain is the crime capital of Europe and that its crime far exceeds other countries, including the USA. Here’s one sampling, from the July 2, 2009 issue of “The Telegraph” (correct me if things have changed since its publication):
“UK is violent crime capital of Europe
“The United Kingdom is the violent crime capital of Europe and has one of the highest rates of violence in the world, worse even than America, according to new research.
“By Richard Edwards, Crime Correspondent 7:00AM BST 02 Jul 2009
“Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.
“The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as AMERICA [emphasis added], Canada, Australia and South Africa.”
Note the words “violent offences.”
So, statistically speaking, YOU should be much more concerned than “I” on this matter. And I guess you are, having two guns. No?
As far as being amused that you are being lectured to by an America, well, Mac, just roll your eyes and laugh on, but the facts differ from your perception. Or, are you just a damn liar?
Regards,
OldPossum
P.S. I concealed carry for two reasons: 1) I can (you can’t, you know), and 2) it’s only prudent, not because I am deathly afraid of being assaulted—I’m not—but because a prudent man takes precautions, everywhere. Because I, like your fellow Brits, cannot carry in the UK or anywhere in the un-free nations of Europe, I prudently avoid it and them.
A “2)” belongs in from of “Because” in the P.S. part
You ignore the obvious: that the UK’s rise in crime (and at no point have I denied a rise) comes from a very low level of crime historically. Whats why even American media were shocked and picked up on the UK rise in the 2000’s.
Britain, even with historically violent cities like Glasgow and London, has always had a low level of crime. That’s why the British bobby was famous for only needing a trusty old truncheon, as the romantic myth had it. Murder (as it remains) was a rare event, and most crime was petty. Even British gangsters didn’t get ‘tooled up’ unless necessary. The murder of women, children, policemen was almost unknown.
Sadly, those days are gone. Yes, the UK is more violent than it was in 1950 or 1970. But Britain is still a safe country. I have explained why the UK-violence figures are high. The way they are collated skews them.
Even IF the UK is the crime capital of Europe, you should remember that the UK and Europe are nowhere near as violent as the US. Or even Canada. Being Euro violence no1 still means we have a long way to go to match North American levels of violence.
If we are talking figures, then lets do so. The British murder rate is 1.2 per 100000, that’s just 720 murders in a population of 60 million people a year. The biggest UK violent crime is burglary, not violence against the person. Gun crime and gun murder is a fraction (one 16th) of the US levels. SIX children in the UK get abducted and murdered a year, that level hasn’t changed since 1970!. Less than 40 get murdered a year by family.
I find it amazing that you think the UK is so violent now that you cannot actually come here safely. Are you seriously suggesting that you are safer living in the US?. Are you seriously suggesting the UK is a more violent country than America?. Really?.
Your country has a serious crime and violent crime problem, you are famous as the land of gun crime/murder, serial killers (75% of all serial killers past and present are American), drug gangs, inner city violence, spree shootings, school massacres.........and you are scared to come to little old Britain?. Do you honestly think you are going to be beaten and murdered in Scotland, Wales, NI, Stratford, Stonehenge, Windsor, or even downtown London?.
The millions of Americans who visit the UK and the hundreds of thousands who actually live here suffer no violence, don’t get murdered. Most find the UK to be a much safer and more civilised society.
‘So, statistically speaking, YOU should be much more concerned than “I” on this matter. And I guess you are, having two guns. No?’
Try again. I have owned those guns since I was 18 and 21. And I will be 44 this year. Nothing to with crime. I just like guns.
‘P.S. I concealed carry for two reasons: 1) I can (you can’t, you know), and 2) it’s only prudent, not because I am deathly afraid of being assaulted—I’m not—but because a prudent man takes precautions, everywhere. Because I, like your fellow Brits, cannot carry in the UK or anywhere in the un-free nations of Europe, I prudently avoid it and them’.
Wrong.
CC, albeit much less than the US, is allowed on the British mainland, with a CC permit. And in Northern Ireland, CC is openly allowed.
I find it actually sad that you give up the chance to visit great countries and friendly people just because you feel you have to have a gun strapped at your side. I find it sad that you seriously think the UK or Ireland or other countries are so violent that you cant come. You seem to have a very odd and distorted view and frankly little knowledge of the UK and other countries.
Please stop parroting the myth that the UK dosent have or exercise the right to self-defence.
you don’t. what you may believe passes for self-defense there doesn’t pass here.
Yes, it does!
I get really pissed off because in 2008, I was the actual victim of crime, and had to use that right to self-defence and use violence. For which all I got from police and courts was commendation.
The UK laws of self defence have in fact been strengthened twice in the last seven years.
We have always had to right to, I am sick of the myth we don’t. We are in fact allowed to kill an attacker if necessary. As a homeowner did last year in Manchester.
I am utterly sick and fed up of the crap Freepers and Americans post about the UK self defence law.
Sorry, but you are wrong.
you do realize that for most countries prior to banning dueling, almost everyone carried some sort of arms.
see you uk folks nbever had the boy scouts, with the whole ‘be prepared’ motto. it’s always better to have something and not use it than to not have it and desperately need it.
but then again if you want to believe the socialist myth that government will always be there with the guns to protect you that’s fine. we don’t.
okay. is there some place i can go to where one can read what the current uk self defense laws are? it would make my day to see that you can actually do that. also maybe what laws’there are to allow folks’to have guns, under what conditions. licenses, etc.
i’d definitely be’interested to see what’s on the books.
The UK didn’t have the Boy Scouts?.
WE INVENTED IT!.
God almighty, the ignorance of Americans never fails to astound.
The Scouts were founded by Lord Baden Powell. He was British. Got that?.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19886504
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defence_in_English_law
http://www.bsdgb.co.uk/index.php?Information:Law_Relating_to_Self_Defence
Apologies if I was too sharp in my second to last post, about Americans. I posted in anger and frustration.
btw, I am a UK gun owner. I don’t rely on the govt for my protection.
thanks, i will read up on them tonite.
A visitors permit is available for possession of firearms without certificate by visitors to Britain.
thanks for the links.
working my way thru the first one.
so far, and correct me if i am’wrong, your choices for firearms are pretty limited. i am wondering exactly what kind of semiauto pistols/revolvers’of any decent caliber a regular citizen there can buy?
it also seems that you have to justify each and every gun and the police have to agree that you have a good reason to own each gun you have. it seems like any local bureaucracy could shut you down. what happens if they some day think you no longer have good reasons to own your guns?
i guess at this point it seems that i sense you have significantly less choices that are legal, and that it’s a may issue/prove’you need it versus what we have over here, far more choices and in almost all areas, shall issue/no need to prove anything to cops.
also we don’t need separate ammo licenses or are limited to how much ammo we can buy in any given time period. guns are not much good if you can’t get ammo for them.
i will/keep reading. i seriously would be curious as to what kinds of small arms you can have, because my impression so far is not too many and not too many powerful calibers.
Working my way down the first link you gave. it’s very informative.
reading the history of the firearmslaws, though, it seems that most of the laws passed show a government that really doesn’t care about regular folks’ ability to have weapins for self defense, as they continually cite that they won’t allow self-defense to be considered a good reason for someone to have a firearm. that’s the best reason to have one. that’s one of the big reasons why we have them here.
We wouldn’t agree that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west but I’ll make one more stab at this, and come clean in the process.
You write:
“the UK and Europe are nowhere near as violent as the US. Or even Canada.”
Do you have a reading comprehension problem? The UK newspaper article clearly states that violent crime in the UK exceeds that of America, yet you blabber on that it’s the converse.
” I find it amazing that you think the UK is so violent now that you cannot actually come here safely.”
I don’t travel because I don’t trust the safety of the air transportation industry. They are not taking proper precautions for security. The Transportation Safety Administration is a joke and that is well-known in Internet social media circles.
Second, and here is where I come clean: I don’t particularly like your country anymore. You have allowed it to be overrun by Muslims, who are by their nature and religion, violent people. I don’t want to be among them, thank you very much.
I am fairly well-traveled, which may come as a surprise to you, having visited almost every Western European country, numerous Latin American countries, Russia, Ukraine, Japan and South Korea (the latter courtesy of the U.S. Army). I have no further desire to see them—or any other country, for that matter. Think of me as you wish, I don’t give a s#it.
Incidentally, I won’t drive to Canada for the very reason that I cannot protect myself with a gun (visited there twice in my 30s, never again). I won’t drive to Mexico because I am not insane.
You keep harping on murder but statistically one’s biggest danger is just plain old violent crime. When I walk out the door I am not concerned about murder, I am concerned about the possibility of a mugging, not that that happens much in my area, a conservative rural area of Virginia. Again, I point out that I am a prudent person who values my health and life.
Incidentally, I would bet that getting a concealed carry permit in the UK is an undertaking of the largest order. Here, OTOH, all one has to have is a clean criminal and mental health record and the $50 to pay for the five-year license; initially one has to have formal training in self-defense law and prove he can fire his weapon accurately and safely. Nothing else. It’s called “shall issue” in the parlance of the legislation passed by each state. “May issue” means that someone can use his discretion and deny the permit. Most states are “shall issue.”
I would add more thing. It’s in reference to your statement: “You seem to have a very odd and distorted view and frankly little knowledge of the UK and other countries.” You Brits have this very irritating arrogance often expressed in such declarations as “little knowledge of the UK and other countries.” It seems to be a British trait to think of people as not as worldly and sophisticated as you. We call it “snobbism.” Add that to my reasons for not wanting to visit your country.
To conclude, yes, I believe that I live in a safer country than you do...unless, of course, “The Telegraph” is lying.
Good day.
By the way, that sentence posted to Secret Agent Man in post 49 is just another example of what I was pointing out in my next-to-last sentence to you. Arrogance, thy name is British! Tiresome, very tiresome. Just makes me want to go to the UK.
Possession, huh? Can you have it on your person? You know, having the gun in the hotel room when you're being attacked on the street doesn't help much.
I know the answer, it's "no."
1—I have already gone in depth into UK crime. Its rise (which I never denied) and the types of UK crime. Also I explained why the UK violent crime figures are skewed. I also compared what crimes are more prevalent in the US and in the UK. I was am willing to discuss the different types of crime, and how they stack up vis a vis US-UK.
Your reply ignored all this I notice.
2—Burglary is about the only violent crime the UK ‘beats’ the US on. Murder, rape, gun crime, gun murder are all far more prevalent in the US. Our murder rate per 100000 is 1.2, yours 4.8. Our gun crime rates far lower, our gun murder one-sixteenth. And we haven’t compared serial murder, spree shootings, school shootings, domestic violence.......
3—You don’t like the UK?. OK. I still like America. A lot.
I cant wait to come back and travel more of your lovely country.
4—Overrun by Muslims?. Try again. I think you will find that 95.4% of the UK is NOT Muslim. And that the UK is still 92-93% white. And that three parts of the UK (Scotland, NI, Wales) have Muslim populations of less than 1%. And you wonder why I said you have a less than concrete grasp of Britain today?.
5—Oh good grief, what terrible experience did you have with the horrible Canucks?. I have never had any problem with them, and love the country. I have even considered moving there.
6—I just think its sad that you feel you cant go anywhere, even in your country, without CC. You feel its prudent, but it comes across as paranoid.
7—I use that British snobbery, because on here I read so much rubbish written about the UK, and find that whilst utterly ridiculous, its firmly believed by any freepers. I spend a lot of time, as do the other British and Irish freepers, correcting nonsense about Britain here on FR.
For an Anglophone site, some of the knowledge about the UK here is shocking. If its snobbish to lose my temper sometimes and rail against American ignorance, so be it.
Yes, because Americans are known for being quiet.
If we Limeys are known for being arrogant snobs, then believe me Americans are equally stereotyped as loud, obnoxious and think the rest of the world wants to be American and are jealous.
If the Brits are patronising, then the Yanks are noted for their ignorance of anything outside their borders.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.