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Russia sending fighter aircraft to Ukrainian border
Ukrinform ^ | 25.06.2014 17:40 | Ukrinform

Posted on 06/26/2014 10:45:31 PM PDT by WhiskeyX

KYIV, June 25 /Ukrinform/. Russia has sent a squadron of MiG-29 fighter aircraft to the border with Ukraine and is conducting reconnaissance flights.

(Excerpt) Read more at ukrinform.ua ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: russia; ukraine

1 posted on 06/26/2014 10:45:31 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX
And Russia has a right to do so in it's own airspace...especially since Poroshenko has said he will go to Plan B on Friday.

As I've written ..Putin now has the freedom to go into Ukraine for humanitarian reasons now that his request of the Duma to remove the option for Military force in Ukraine has been taken off the table.

Nato would not be able to stop Putin from humanitarian assistance...their hands would be tied under International LAw.

2 posted on 06/26/2014 10:57:19 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww
As I've written ..Putin now has the freedom to go into Ukraine for humanitarian reasons

You've been chomping at the bit for Putin to put a good old massacre on the "Nazis" in Ukraine from stage one. What's this nonsense about the "freedom" to do it for humanitarian purposes now?

3 posted on 06/26/2014 11:01:06 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: WhiskeyX

The 29’s went to Millerovo, the closest major airbase to Lugansk, joining about 30 other aircraft already there.

They give Putin a whole bunch of options.

And frankly, given the performance and technical condition of the Ukrainian Air Force, 12 Mig-29’s are probably all that is needed to insure Air Superiority over Luhansk and Donetsk, should it come to that. They can be over Lugansk in minutes.
(note that these are the upgraded 29’s, as well.)


4 posted on 06/26/2014 11:50:03 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: WhiskeyX

The Ukranians should be more concerned if they send SU-25s and MiG-27s to border areas.


5 posted on 06/27/2014 1:22:27 AM PDT by edpc (Wilby 2016)
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To: caww

“Nato would not be able to stop Putin from humanitarian assistance...their hands would be tied under International LAw.”

There is nothing “humanitarian” whatsoever about Russia’s naked aggression, invasion, occupation, and conquest of Ukrainian territory. Your asserting such a claim on behalf of the murderous Putin regime makes you a liar in support of the murderous Putin regime.

NATO has every obligation and right under the Kellogg-Briand Treaty or Paris Peace Pact, the Budapest Memorandum 1934, and the Budapest memorandum 1994 to act in defense of the Ukraine’s sovereignty and humanitarian rights.


6 posted on 06/27/2014 4:33:06 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

Both the Eu/Nato/Us and Russia had ‘violated’ the agreement already through ‘economic pressure’ before and throughout Ukraine’s revolution.......all parties were “meddling” in Ukraine’s Politics and the run up to the Revolution , which in diplomacy means that the agreement would no longer be in effect...... Also.... the Budapest Memorandum is a diplomatic ‘memorandum’, not an official treaty. There is a difference.

The Budapest Memorandum is not a mutual defense pact or treaty...For there to be any such commitment, would require an actual ‘treaty of alliance’, which would then have to be approved by any legislative processes of the signatory nations, including Ukraine itself. No such treaty has ever even been proposed, much less signed or debated in any of the concerned nations’ legislatures.

The Budapest Memorandum is NOT such a guarantee and was never intended to be. The United States Government has not at any time issued any such statement independent of the Budapest Memorandum, nor has the government of any other nation.

Further since Russia has technically not sent in any troops, thus violating Ukraine’s sovereignty, there’s no reason to invoke the memorandum to assist Ukraine in defending its territorial integrity. So as it’s worded the US nor Nato are committed to intervene.

Additionally Ukraine had ‘initially’ refused to sign the agreement because the wording was ‘not specific’ to Obligate military intervention. Yet they signed the agreement as written anyway......

The real purpose of the Budapest Memorandum was to get ‘Russian ink’ on a piece of paper acknowledging that Ukraine was not a province or vassal state to be lorded over by the Kremlin. It’s just that simple. Ukraine would not give up it’s share of the Soviet nuclear arsenal until that fear was allayed.

What the document does say is very simple and clear:

“The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America affirm to ‘RESPECT’ the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine........ Respect does not mean defend or guarantee..... A landowner or business respects a neighbor’s property line, but has no obligation to defend it against a house breaking by hoodlums.

The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America affirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine........This provision is the crux of the document; as it assures that none of the signatory nations (not just Russia) will attack or invade Ukraine.

This was a concern among all at the time, because post-Soviet Era military scenarios anticipated a possible threat of Ukrainian nukes being stolen or seized requiring one or more of the signatories to initiate a military operation into or against Ukraine to prevent such an occurrence.

Some of the above are Exerts from.....jkbrent.hubpages.com (Misinformation-on-the-Budapest-Memorandum)


7 posted on 06/27/2014 8:16:00 AM PDT by caww
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

....”What’s this nonsense about the “freedom” to do it for humanitarian purposes now?”....

The key word is “now”....Putin makes the calls when he determines not when others require or demand....and it will always be with the best outcome for Russia as we all know.

Like it or not Putin stays within the boundaries of International Law, which is why he had the “use of military force” withdrawn at this time, in order for any humanitary efforts he determines to go forward without Us/EU/Nato intervention....he has International Law supporting him at this point if he goes into Ukraine because without the “use of military force”...they cannot say he’s invading....which he doesn’t want to do anyway or he would have done so long ago.

Ukraine’s cut their own throats as they have so many times before....SouthStream Pipeline will bypass Ukraine now so they will loose the oil transfers fees they realized (too late) they’d be without. Russia’s agreement with Austria by passed Bulgaria’s attempt to stop south stream (thanks to McCain strong arming them), and is perfectly ligit under International Law as a Business partnership between oil companies.

Additionally...IMF will bring in even ‘more’ austerity demands which will cripple the people as the resources of Ukraine have now gone under outside foreign entities...and more yet will be “stolen” leveraged against the billions of dollars to bail them out.

There is no place for Ukraine to go now but become a debtor state.....and a political pawn used by the US/EU as they see fit.

In the end, once reality sets in for the Ukrainians, they will rebel again...and you can be sure they’ll be barking at Russia’s door to make deals just as they have in the past. The question will be how much Russia wants to contend with them as a failed state entirely.


8 posted on 06/27/2014 8:53:42 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww
The key word is “now”....Putin makes the calls when he determines not when others require or demand....and it will always be with the best outcome for Russia as we all know.

You are talking about a country that has newspaper editors, journalists, dissidents, and political rivals, beaten in dark alleys or subways, shot in their driveways, thrown from windows, or imprisoned over trumped up charges, while Putin and his mooks loot millions from the Russian people and continue to take control over the media and all aspects of Russian society.

This is a country where FSB agents are caught strapping explosives onto apartment buildings, and then their media promotes 9/11 Truther conspiracies on their state controlled television, depicting the United States as the world's great evil.

This is a country where madmen are in the highest positions of power or influence, who advocate strange theories about the Russian people being the best "Aryan" tribe, while at the same time spending billions of dollars on Muslim Chechens and other non-Russians ethnicities while the average Russian lives in poverty. The Capital of Chechnya easily rivals anything in Saudi Arabia. Hence the Neo-Nazis of the world are all quite confused, with the Russian Neo-Nazis assuring them that Putin is indeed a good mass murdering white supremacist, while others feel like they're getting fooled (but it's easy to fool them).

This is a country that has setup its own Islamic dictatorship in Chechnya, ruled by a psycho who apparently keeps a sex dungeon with both male and female slaves, who names streets and buildings after Putin, delivers 99 percent of the vote for Putin's party in soviet style elections, declares he is building an Islamic state, and sends his henchmen into countries Russia is invading, such as Ukraine and Georgia.

This is a country that has its hands in every communist country and state in the world, including communist terrorist insurgencies in South America all nicely armed by the Russian mafia... who themselves are populated by "former" KGB officers. By the way, it was one of these Russian Mafiosos who was made Prime Minister at gunpoint in Crimea.

This is a country that, through its media and special agents throughout the world, spread Alex Jones conspiracy theories and anti-Americanism designed to justify an outright genocide on our people. Such was one of the agents exposed in the "Ghost Stories" spy and influence ring that came out a few years ago, the one with the attractive red-head. One of the agents worked in a Spanish newspaper in New York where she trafficked in connecting the United States to terrorism across the world. She now works in Russian state controlled media after her deportation, continuing her work.

And here you are telling me that Putin is some kind of a patriot out to do "good for Russia"? He is a mass murderer, thief and professional liar and a threat to us all.

Like it or not Putin stays within the boundaries of International Law, which is why he had the “use of military force” withdrawn at this time, in order for any humanitary efforts he determines to go forward without Us/EU/Nato intervention....he has International Law supporting him at this point if he goes into Ukraine because without the “use of military force”...they cannot say he’s invading....which he doesn’t want to do anyway or he would have done so long ago.

Oh, look how cute you are! Did you get a law degree from a Russian online service within the past few weeks? How many rubles did it cost, comrade? Hopefully not your whole monthly check of 20 dollars! This is all stupid, since the "going into Ukraine" on "humanitarian grounds" would be done with "military force" anyway. Considering the Russkies had painted on their tanks Humanitarian slogans months ago, this is likely what they're ultimately aiming for if the Ukrainians can't give them a reason not to go for it. But only stupid people think that you can "legally" make a military invasion not a military invasion. Not even Bill Clinton or Obozo could pull off that kind of a fraud.

But in the end none of this matters. As what matters is the spirit and the strength of the Ukrainian people who, unfortunately, cannot rely on anyone else but themselves to fight off this threat. But considering the great spirit I have seen in them, whole crowds of them charging armed gunmen, while they themselves are unarmed, I suspect the Russkies are going to have a harder time than they realize. All the lies in the world can't keep a Muslim Chechen or Russian trooper from getting shot by a determined patriot.

9 posted on 06/27/2014 6:56:14 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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