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Stand Your Ground explained for the non-lawyer
hotair.com ^ | 6/28/2014 | Jazz Shaw

Posted on 06/29/2014 7:09:10 AM PDT by rktman

I’ve heard more than my fair share of ignorant, biased arguments against Stand Your Ground laws in my time, particularly since the Zimmerman case. The has been a particularly useful tool for low information, anti-gun rights activists because it allows them to blend a combination of straw-men and stereotypes into one toxic mash-up. A typical example along these lines would be; Of course you like SYG laws. That way, when a white person is “threatened” by having too many black faces around they can just gun them down..

(Excerpt) Read more at hotair.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: 2a; banglist; guncontrol; standyourground
Okay Jazz. Your next task is to explain the "knockout game" to us non-lawyers. LOL! Too bad the no/low info asshats won't care about this explanation in any case.
1 posted on 06/29/2014 7:09:10 AM PDT by rktman
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To: rktman

Put that pistol away and take your beating like a man, honkey!


2 posted on 06/29/2014 7:16:20 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk (The GOP is dying. What do we do now?)
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To: rktman

Would be nice to start a rumor and have it go viral that fifty percent of all Americans are armed at all times and that new laws have been put into place for those Americans, to carry, while flying and while in all buildings including government buildings. The signs mean nothing to the fifty percent because they have been made perfectly legal carriers. Would scare off most criminals too.


3 posted on 06/29/2014 7:18:36 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: Kenny Bunk

Yup. SYG is racis’. Typical white privilege thing.


4 posted on 06/29/2014 7:18:57 AM PDT by rktman (Ethnicity: Nascarian. Race: Daytonafivehundrian)
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To: rktman

We were taught im the state police academy that an unarmed assilant can still kill you....and if the knock out game has taught us anything is that what I and other troopers.were taught still holds true....enough force to a person’s skull can kill them or permanently impair tbem for the rest of their life....a touchy issue..amd one where those who carry need lots of traini.g and a good lawyer on standby....


5 posted on 06/29/2014 7:20:39 AM PDT by BCW (Amazon: "Babylon's Covert War" - the Iraq conflict explained in detail)
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To: BCW

I typed tbis on my Driod with the small keys...sorry for the misspellings...


6 posted on 06/29/2014 7:22:14 AM PDT by BCW (Amazon: "Babylon's Covert War" - the Iraq conflict explained in detail)
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To: rktman

I’d like to point out why, in an SYG situation, having a knife as a complement to a gun doubly affords protection.

Brandishing a gun is tricky, as just doing that represents a threat to someone’s life. The ability to “reach out and touch someone”. A knife, other than a throwing knife, however, has no offensive momentum, so unless you approach someone, or they approach you, by itself it is not a mortal threat.

So gun owners need to be more hesitant in brandishing their gun until they are certain of a threat, or they may break the law. However, a knife can be brandished, “saying” nothing more than “back off”.

Robbers, muggers, and knockout gamers all rely on subterfuge to close the gap with their intended victim. Either by sneaking up behind them, or feigning a non-criminal purpose to get near to them.

And this works against a concealed carry gun, but at the very first inkling of menace, a knife can be drawn, yet still be discreet so as not to cause alarm. Even if rushed, there is no hesitation to slash or stab.


7 posted on 06/29/2014 7:32:54 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("Don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative." -Obama, 09-24-11)
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To: no-to-illegals

Not that high a number, but around 5% of adult Georgians have a concealed carry permit. I like this. It is a significant number.


8 posted on 06/29/2014 7:35:44 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

this brings to mind a incident that happened in Hattiesburg Ms. about 9 years ago. A man was going into a Mugshots roadhouse to join his daughter for a birthday celebration. When he met his daughter she told him about a large group of african americans who had discussed certain things they would like to fo to her.
Enragedm the father went out and confronted the group. They surrounded him, and he pulled his gun. Someone behind him hit him in the head with a pipe, he went down, and they played the kick the honky game.
Police came, the crowd dispersed, the man was taken to a hospital, where he died the next day.
At several points, I can say I would have done something else, but the situation evolved around him...anyone could have made the same mistakes. The crime was thrown out as self defense, thanks to a ra c ist police chief, and a Mayor name of Johnny Dup ree, who is a drug free version of that famous heroic mayor of DC
I am told H’burg has even more crime now than then. How would one handle such a set of circumstances, Just grin and bear it? A knife would have been worthless. Mace and a gun? if he had gotten a shot or two off, likely all but the most addled would have run. But who knows.


9 posted on 06/29/2014 7:55:22 AM PDT by Boowhoknew
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To: rktman

I still don’t understand, and may never understand, how it is that the liberals had a meltdown over stand your ground laws with Trayvon Martin, when the defense of Zimmerman was based on self defense, not the stand your ground laws.

We have had an ongoing national conversation over stand your ground, triggered by the Trayvon Martin case, when that case had nothing to do with stand your ground in the first place.

How is it that liberals were able to use this case to talk about stand your ground laws when the case had nothing to do with stand your ground laws?????


10 posted on 06/29/2014 8:23:15 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego (s)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

I’m guessin’ that al not so sharpton figured that SYG is racis’ and he could make some money off of it. SYG is firmly in place to be vilified and condemned as a way to let whitey off for popping black folks. Or some liblogic as that.


11 posted on 06/29/2014 8:26:22 AM PDT by rktman (Ethnicity: Nascarian. Race: Daytonafivehundrian)
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To: Boowhoknew

He made several tactical mistakes that should never be made.

1) He went up against a crowd by himself without backup. Who would be stupid enough to go up against a pack of feral dogs by himself? Don’t do this.

2) He did not keep situational awareness with an eye to defense. You never let a threat get behind you. A fatal mistake.

3) The first bullets to to the enemy that are armed. In this case, the one with the lead pipe, had he seen him.

4) Even with a group, imagine trying to rush someone with a knife whose back is against a wall, or preferably in a doorway. Not easy. And with a knife and a gun, very not easy.


12 posted on 06/29/2014 8:29:36 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("Don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative." -Obama, 09-24-11)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

Trayvon didn’t run as these people demand Z should have. Why didn’t T just run into his dad’s house instead of chasing down and attacking Z?

T’s supporters are idiots since they don’t see that.


13 posted on 06/29/2014 8:30:28 AM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

He made one big strategic error — he should have stayed away from areas where he could encounter large groups of AAs, such as H’burg itself.


14 posted on 06/29/2014 8:45:39 AM PDT by expat2
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To: rktman

I presume the misinformation about stand your ground is both deliberate and malevolent, because the concept is trivial.

“Stand your ground” — the right to stay (stand) where you (your) are, rather than having to run away (give ground).

I’m not a lawyer, and just by the words, I know this is saying that if I had a right to self-defense, I have a right to exercise self-defense WITHOUT REGARD to whether I could have instead retreated.

Simply put, in any situation where I would be justified in using force, it is as if I am in a room with no doors, and therefore had no ability to escape.

Zimmerman didn’t invoke “stand your ground” because first, it doesn’t mean you can follow someone, and second, at the time he was being beaten, he had no ability to flee, and therefore had no reason to invoke the right NOT to flee.


15 posted on 06/29/2014 8:56:50 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: expat2

While I am all in favor of avoidance, often “wildings”, flash mobs, and State Fair raiders use speed and momentum to make hasty attacks where there are not usually such bands of criminals, and then leave the area.

This can present the additional problem of a mob using a crowd for cover. But that is an added bonus for a knife, because they will have a divided attention, so you can actually go on the offense, involving yourself against the attackers in other attacks.


16 posted on 06/29/2014 8:57:33 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("Don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative." -Obama, 09-24-11)
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To: BCW

If the knockout game teaches us anything, it is that the claim that blacks are worried about whites shooting them for no reason is a fiction. If you are scared to death the white people are just walking around with guns looking for reasons to shoot black people, you are NOT giving them excuses by running up to them to beat them.


17 posted on 06/29/2014 8:58:04 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

The proper course of action is don’t brandish your weapon until you are ready to fire and no warning shots. If you shoot somebody make sure they are dead. And don’t trash talk em to death before you shoot.


18 posted on 06/29/2014 8:59:39 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose o f a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: rktman

Actually, I find it quite informative. As in “ He told me to give him my wallet...”


19 posted on 06/29/2014 9:10:24 AM PDT by D Rider (Don't give sharp objects to small children)
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To: rktman

When the dems were the party of the KKK, they tried to ban gun ownership from Black citizens. They just have switched around the skin colors of their hate in this post segregation period.


20 posted on 06/29/2014 9:52:46 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Kenny Bunk
"Put that pistol away and take your beating like a man, honkey!"

That's right the perpetrators only need explain the attack was instigated by the victims whiteness, which is extremely offensive and demands an appropriate response.

1000 years of racial oppression in America!

NOT GUILTY... by virtue of Americas current justice system.

21 posted on 06/29/2014 10:15:11 AM PDT by PoloSec ( Believe the Gospel: how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

they don’t haveto be certain of a threat. the requirements arethat they believe their lives are in mortal danger or that they could receive permanent bodily (grave) harm. they might varying in wording state to state but generally this is it. they have to believe, not know for certain. you’dhave to be shot or attacked to know for certain and then you may be dead or dying.


22 posted on 06/29/2014 10:38:30 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man ( Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Boowhoknew

his first mistake was engaging the group. the daughter wasn’t in danger and neither was he so it wasn’t necessary. although i certainly understand his feelings.

you don’t make yourself a willing participant. when you do you lose self-defense justification.


23 posted on 06/29/2014 10:41:40 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man ( Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT

any criminal is worried qbot getting shot by someone.

but theblacks who do theknockout game look for certain folks to bring down thgat risk. white person walking alone. the kind of look that he’s not tough, probably not a gun owner. maybe older. maybe female.


24 posted on 06/29/2014 10:45:38 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man ( Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Dilbert San Diego; rktman
"I still don’t understand, and may never understand, how it is that the liberals had a meltdown over stand your ground laws..."

~~~~~~~

It's simple: the REAL black (and liberal) agenda was to use Zim as an excuse to negate both SYG & SD laws -- so that "repressed" blacks would be free to extend their "right" to "play" their "Whack-a Honky Reparations 'Game'" -- to anyone, any time, any place -- with no legal repercussions.

And, their next agenda step is to extend that to "Kill-a-Honky..." -- again, without legal repercussions...

Both have already happened -- repeatedly -- and the MSM says the reports are "a myth"...

25 posted on 06/29/2014 11:13:49 AM PDT by TXnMA ("Allah": Satan's current alias... "Barack": Allah's current ally...)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

Within 20 feet a knife is as deadly as a gun for a fast mover.

Ever try to hit a moving target with a bullet? Not easy, and not as easy as slashing and stabbing up close.

I have seen training where a “shooter” will fire at a target as fast as they can at a target 20 feet away when he hears the ‘go’ signal from the instructor from a holstered gun. -The same ‘go’ signal starts a runner from the back of the shooter running in the opposite direction, dropping a flag at the gunshot sound.
-unfamiliar shooters will frequently miss the first shot, and the flag will be more than 20 feet away.


26 posted on 06/29/2014 4:40:41 PM PDT by Wildbill22 (They have us surrounded again, the poor bastards- Gen Creighton Williams Abrams)
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To: Secret Agent Man

“they don’t haveto be certain of a threat. the requirements arethat they believe their lives are in mortal danger or that they could receive permanent bodily (grave) harm. they might varying in wording state to state but generally this is it. they have to believe, not know for certain. you’dhave to be shot or attacked to know for certain and then you may be dead or dying.”

Absolutely, but the ambiguity of when and why you believe your life is in grave danger is exactly the point the left says we should not have that option at that point. The theory goes a hitman can claim self defense if he said he felt his life is in danger.

That is why there are generally three criteria that you should consider when using deadly force;
1). The (target of your defense) has OPPORTUNITY to do you grave harm.
2). The (target of your defense) has the ABILITY to do you grave harm.
3). The (target of your defense) has the INTENT to do you grave harm.

A person with INTENT who is behind bars has no opportunity. An unarmed person with INTENT who is in a wheelchair does not have the ABILITY.
All three together, and you should have no charges filed against you. I am however just an armchair lawyer, repeating what my CCW instructor told me.


27 posted on 06/29/2014 5:37:57 PM PDT by Wildbill22 (They have us surrounded again, the poor bastards- Gen Creighton Williams Abrams)
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To: Wildbill22

That’s the Tueller Drill. And it is for a trained LEO vs. a knife charger. Imagine the Tueller distance for a civilian *not* expecting a charge.

And no hesitation at all in drawing a knife at the first hint of possible trouble. Hiding the blade behind your forearm, it is pretty much invisible, but anybody comes in on you, and snicker-snack.

So your big emphasis is on dodging or parrying their head shot. If you can do that, you win, big time.

Preferred knife, a karambit.


28 posted on 06/29/2014 6:33:18 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("Don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative." -Obama, 09-24-11)
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To: BCW

“We were taught im the state police academy that an unarmed assilant can still kill you....and if the knock out game has taught us anything is that what I and other troopers.were taught still holds true....enough force to a person’s skull can kill them or permanently impair tbem for the rest of their life”

Yep. So, because “You were taught in the state police academy” then you have free reign to shoot an unarmed person.

Hey, I agree. Try doing that as one of the proles. I’d go to jail for 20 years or so. If I ever happen to have to shoot someone who is assaulting me can I call you for a witness for the defense?


29 posted on 06/29/2014 6:49:51 PM PDT by saleman
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To: Wildbill22

>>slashing and stabbing up close.<<

Slashing and stabbing is one method to use a knife but when you want to get serious, stick it in to the hilt then twist the blade and yank it hard, up down or sideways. Do not pull it out, keep enlarging the opening. Then reach in for the lungs, liver or heart. Cut any of them deeply and the game is over. Wipe your blade off and go home.


30 posted on 06/29/2014 7:39:16 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Name your illness, do a Google & YouTube search with "hydrogen peroxide". Do it and be surprised.)
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To: Dilbert San Diego
"How is it that liberals were able to use this case to talk about stand your ground laws when the case had nothing to do with stand your ground laws?????"

That's the thing. They didn't talk about SYG laws. They talked about their fantasy version of SYG laws, which were totally disconnected from what they really are. Hence the topic of this post.

31 posted on 06/29/2014 8:36:07 PM PDT by mlo
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To: saleman

I tuink at this point, those of us that actually want to retain the US ass a “Free Republic” should come out with counter-videos like the ones everyone has up there on “how to get out of a speeding ticket, refuse a US Border Guard searches” or something like that - but make videos “educating” people on how to respond to an actual confrontation and what to say to police and what not to say to police. Especially if one’s lawyer is not standing there!

There are good people out there trying to do the right thing - and if we have learned anything over the last 6 yrs - there are politicians and justice officials that do nothing to uphold the true meaning of what the US code of law is actually meant to do...

Of course these videos would have to have a “common denouncement/retraction” on “Check your local laws and speak to a lawyer” warning at the beginning and end...

Having been on the “enforcement” side - yes I know what to say and how to say it...and I’ve seen a radical drop in the standards of what is being hired as a police officer....most can’t begin, construct, and finish a sentence - let alone a full investigative report! It’s sad...but true...

Knowing how to react before, during, and after is a hit and miss at the moment...makes me not want to seek public attractions for fear of being wrapped up in some sort of conflict that I didn’t start but was force to react - and have some judge and jury with a “look at me” prosecutor trying to make a name for themselves attempting to hang me...not worth it...


32 posted on 06/30/2014 4:03:32 AM PDT by BCW (Amazon: "Babylon's Covert War" - the Iraq conflict explained in detail)
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To: rktman

Debunking the stand your ground myth
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2867480/posts

SYG explained by someone who’s not a tard.


33 posted on 07/02/2014 10:35:49 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.-JFK)
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