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Wales: Campaign to improve Rorke's Drift hero's grave [1964 Movie Zulu Men of Harlech]
Wales Online ^ | June 29, 2014

Posted on 06/29/2014 7:34:22 AM PDT by bd476



Wales Online



Campaign to improve Rorke's Drift hero's grave

Pte James Owen, played by Ivor Emmanuel in
Zulu was laid to rest in Swansea, now plans
are underway to re-dedicate his grave



Image is from clip of the 1964 movie Zulu
Private Owen, Ivor Emmanuel (left) with Lieutenant John Chard, Stanley Baker in the classic film Zulu


June 29, 2014 06:00
By Robin Turner



His role in the battle of Rorke’s Drift was immortalised in the 1964 movie Zulu, yet James Owen’s grave is marked with just a few rotten pieces of wood bearing his name.

Now a campaign is underway to re-dedicate and refurbish the overgrown cemetery plot in South Wales, which is the last resting place of this hero of yesteryear.

Private Owen was portrayed by singer Ivor Emmanuel in the Stanley Baker produced movie about the 1879 battle in South Africa. There, some 150 British soldiers – a number of whom were Welsh – successfully held off a force of 4,000 Zulu warriors.

In the film, Emmanuel, as Pte Owen, leads the weary British soldiers in singing to raise their morale and to match the spiritual songs of the Zulu forces. At the end, he leads the stirring singing of Men of Harlech.

Pte Owen survived the battle and died in Swansea aged 87 in 1938 while living with his son in Kemble Street, Brynmill.

His grave is now in Bethel Cemetery in the city’s Sketty area. Royal Marines bugler Sgt Tim Needham, who has worked to restore a number of graves of Rorke’s Drift survivors, wants Pte Owen’s last resting spot to be given greater attention.

He said: “I’m hoping to bring some attention to the fact a few rotten fragments of a fallen wooden cross bearing the name James Owen are all that remains to mark the plot, and that given his part in such a legendary action there should surely be something a little more fitting to mark this soldier’s final resting place.

“I’m sure most people will be familiar with the legendary battle which took place during the Zulu War of 1879 and resulted in the award of 11 Victoria Crosses and later depicted in Zulu.

“Given the increased interest in marking Rorke’s Drift graves in the past few years, it would be fantastic to stir some local interest in finally resolving this sad situation.”

Born in Swansea and initially a tin worker, James Owen used the alias David Lewis on joining the British Army for reasons that are not clear but it was not unusual for men to give false names when joining the army at that time.

He signed on with 25 Brigade at Brecon and was posted to 2nd Battalion 24th Foot in 1877.

He served for two years and eight months, including a year and eight months in South Africa and was discharged in August 1879.

An Injury Assessment Board held at the Royal Hospital, Chelsea, in the same year confirmed he was suffering from Valvular Disease of the Heart – caused by being under canvas for six months and constantly exposed to “climatic vicissitudes”.

He was awarded a pension of six pence per day for six months and was eventually buried with military honours.

At the time a wreath was sent by former comrades at Rorke’s Drift, including Colour Sergeant Frank Bourne, portrayed in Zulu by Nigel Green.

Deborah Owen-Smith, who lives in Snowdonia, is the great great great granddaughter of James Owen.

She said: ”Over the years our family has spread far and wide but a number of family members know of the role James Owen played at Rorke’s Drift.

“We hope to re-dedicate the grave and raise more attention for his last resting place and hope to raise some money to restore it.

“It would be nice to get a headstone to ensure his bravery at Rorke’s Drift is not forgotten.”





TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: menofharlech; victoriacross; zulu
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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150 Exhausted Soldiers Against 4,000

The Battle of Rorke's Drift
in 1879 South Africa




150 exhausted British Soldiers, including the many Welsh soldiers who had been recruited from Southeast Wales, had to somehow defend themselves against an onslaught of 4,000 Zulu warriors

Despite being denied reinforcements, being greatly outnumbered, low on morale and low on supplies, the British Regiment prevailed.

Thirteen Victoria Crosses were awarded after the Battle of Rorke's Drift, including one to Private James Owen.

The Battle of Rorke's Drift was the subject of the 1964 movie Zulu. Richard Burton narrated. The movie also was Michael Caine's first film role. At first, Caine had lost his chance at the role due to what he described as a terrible audition.

When the actor who had been given the role, fell ill, the director offered the role to Michael Caine on the night before the cast was due to fly to South Africa to film.

Zulu 7 minute clip featuring Richard Burton narrating the list of men who after valiantly defending Rorke's Drift, received the Victoria Cross.

Zulu 13 minute clip







Brief History on the Siege of Harlech

The seven years long Siege of Harlech in 1460 was the original inspiration for the song Men of Harlech written in 1861. The filmmakers then revised the lyrics for the 1964 movie Zulu.



Excerpt from Data Wales: Men of Harlech

"Just who were the Men of Harlech and how did they come to be associated with a bloody battle in Africa? The answer is to be sought through the mists of time and the story starts in the year 1283 when King Edward I ordered a mighty castle to be built at Harlech on the coast of Merionethshire in north Wales.

This was just one of a ring of great castles designed to prevent the Welsh from challenging the sovereignty of England. The task of designing and building the castle was given to the Master of the King's Work in Wales, James of St. George.

This man, one of the great military engineers of history, built a castle of the concentric type defended at the back by the sea and at the front by massive towers and walls up to twelve feet thick.

The defences of Harlech Castle were first tested in 1294 when a 37 strong garrison fought off Welsh besiegers led by Madog.

In the next century the castle became neglected but was repaired before the occasion of the revolt led by Owain Glyndwr.

After a long and grim siege Harlech was captured by Owain in 1404. The revolt could not be sustained, however, and the castle was recovered for the crown in 1408.

A period of comparative peace was brought to an end by the Wars of the Roses. In 1460 the castle was held by Lancastrian forces and endured a siege which is said to have lasted seven years.

The constable, Dafydd ap Ieuan, and his garrison held out long after other Lancastrian commanders in England and Wales had surrendered to the Yorkist faction and Alan Reid (in The Castles of Wales, 1973, ISBN 0 85097 185 3) tells us the following story.

"Dafydd ... widened his fame by replying to one summons to surrender with the boast that he had once held a castle in France so long against siege that all the old women of Wales talked of it; and now he would hold a castle in Wales until all the old women of France talked of it."

Eventually famine forced surrender and Dafydd handed the castle to Lord Herbert and his brother Sir Richard Herbert on honourable terms.

King Edward IV at first refused to honour the terms of the settlement but Sir Richard Herbert, out of respect for the bravery of the defenders, is said to have offered his own life in exchange for Dafydd's rather than see his promise broken. These defenders were the Men of Harlech commemorated in the song.

Men of Harlech from Data Wales


1 posted on 06/29/2014 7:34:22 AM PDT by bd476
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To: bd476

As “The Washing of the Spears” notes, there were 150 men at Roarke’s Drift, but only 80 trained riflemen. The rest were in the infirmary, cooks, supply guys, and even of the 80, they were all primarily engineers, not riflemen. It makes their defense all the more astounding.


2 posted on 06/29/2014 7:36:50 AM PDT by LS ('Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually.' Hendrix)
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To: Myrddin; SunkenCiv; Mad Dawg

Bore da! Good morning!

Ping!





3 posted on 06/29/2014 7:39:42 AM PDT by bd476
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To: bd476

Stanley Baker, a great actor, died too young. He also was a socialist if I recall correctly.


4 posted on 06/29/2014 7:40:49 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: LS

Discipline.


5 posted on 06/29/2014 7:41:14 AM PDT by Tax-chick (I don't feel obligated to provide you with a non-boring gun.)
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To: LS
LS wrote: "As 'The Washing of the Spears' notes, there were 150 men at Roarke's Drift, but only 80 trained riflemen. The rest were in the infirmary, cooks, supply guys, and even of the 80, they were all primarily engineers, not riflemen. It makes their defense all the more astounding."

Yes, it sure does. That's incredible! Thank you, LS!


6 posted on 06/29/2014 7:44:07 AM PDT by bd476
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To: bd476

I have studied the battle of Rorke’s Drift extensively throughout the years. It’s simply incredible that there were any survivors, especially since these same Zulu warriers had slaughtered so many British troops just days before.


7 posted on 06/29/2014 7:44:16 AM PDT by Ancient Man
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To: Ancient Man
these same Zulu warriors had slaughtered so many British troops just days before

I understand that's one reason for the successful defense of Rorke's Drift: those Zulus had outrun their supply line and had to pull back.

8 posted on 06/29/2014 7:50:10 AM PDT by Tax-chick (I don't feel obligated to provide you with a non-boring gun.)
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To: vladimir998
vladimir998 wrote: "Stanley Baker, a great actor, died too young. He also was a socialist if I recall correctly."

Yes, along with being a successful actor and director, he was also a very wealthy socialist. Apparently he received much criticism for it, too.


9 posted on 06/29/2014 7:51:13 AM PDT by bd476
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To: bd476

I dare not post on this thread because the last time I did - to praise the wonderful movie “Zulu” - I had a nutty freeper ream me out because Stanley Baker was a socialist commie! He still made a good movie, though.


10 posted on 06/29/2014 7:56:27 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: Tax-chick

It is true that the 4,000 Zulus at Rorke’s Drift were a phalanx of the 20,000 Zulu army that defeated and killed 1,300 British troops at the Battle of Isandlwana in January, but I’ve never read anywhere that they retreated from lack of supplies.


11 posted on 06/29/2014 8:03:10 AM PDT by Ancient Man
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To: Ancient Man
It might have been in The Washing of the Spears. I'm pretty sure that the only book on the subject I have on the shelf.
12 posted on 06/29/2014 8:04:47 AM PDT by Tax-chick (I don't feel obligated to provide you with a non-boring gun.)
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To: vladimir998

Yes, Stanley Baker was probably my favorite movie actor during the period he was making movies. A great presence and a fine actor.


13 posted on 06/29/2014 8:07:37 AM PDT by expat2
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To: bd476

Two of my favorite movies. ZULU and ZULU DAWN.


14 posted on 06/29/2014 8:09:47 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need more than seven rounds, Much more.)
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To: Ancient Man
Ancient Man wrote: "I have studied the battle of Rorke’s Drift extensively throughout the years. It’s simply incredible that there were any survivors, especially since these same Zulu warriors had slaughtered so many British troops just days before."

Thank you Ancient Man. More Victoria Crosses were awarded for Rorke's Drift than any battle ever. The men proved their courage and valor that day. Each man who received the Victoria Cross deserves the greatest respect.

I just now found a very clear audio of Sir Richard Burton reading off the names of the men who received the Victoria Cross in The Battle of Rorke's Drift:

Zulu 07. The V.C. Roll and Men Of Harlech

Including narration by Richard Burton (tracks 1 & 7), this is the original version of the very brief but effective score by John Barry for the 1964 movie. Listen for the strings behind all that brass and percussion.


15 posted on 06/29/2014 8:10:57 AM PDT by bd476
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To: Tax-chick

I might add that the primary Zulu warrior’s weapon was the assegai iron spear, and while they did possess a few rifles, they weren’t technically trained to use them. Thus, I don’t know what kind of supplies they might have outrun. As Nepalese natives, I’m sure they could have lived off the land, as they had done for centuries.


16 posted on 06/29/2014 8:11:06 AM PDT by Ancient Man
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To: expat2

Martin Scorcese several years ago hosted film night at Radio City Music Hall. He chose “Zulu” as his opening night movie. To see those credits across that giant screen and to hear that amazing score was to die for!

My mother took me to see this when it first came out because her grandfather had fought in Africa under Lord Kitchener. We saw all of these movies including “Khartoum.”


17 posted on 06/29/2014 8:11:28 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: bd476

Thanks, bd476. That’s a great part of the movie!


18 posted on 06/29/2014 8:12:57 AM PDT by Ancient Man
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To: bd476

Burton’s narration is a thing of beauty in that film. Oh, if he had only sustained his greatness and not gone for the dirty lucre!


19 posted on 06/29/2014 8:14:16 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: Ancient Man

Zulus are natives of Nepal? But seriously, whatever source it was said their supplies were ground grain, beer, and water. They would be resupplied by women from their villages. The men of the impi could carry several days’ worth, but this group had run out.


20 posted on 06/29/2014 8:14:47 AM PDT by Tax-chick (I don't feel obligated to provide you with a non-boring gun.)
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To: LS
Colour Sergeant Bourne: It's a miracle.

Lieutenant John Chard: If it's a miracle, Colour Sergeant, it's a short chamber Boxer Henry point 45 caliber miracle.

Colour Sergeant Bourne: And a bayonet, sir, with some guts behind.

21 posted on 06/29/2014 8:22:15 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: miss marmelstein
miss marmelstein wrote: "I dare not post on this thread because the last time I did - to praise the wonderful movie "Zulu" - I had a nutty freeper ream me out because Stanley Baker was a socialist commie! He still made a good movie, though."

LOL! I'm laughing with you Miss Marmelstein and agree with you that Stanley Baker was an outstanding actor! It says a lot that despite his political views, he was still awarded Knighthood. How sad that he was unable to officially receive the honor due to his illness, hospitalization and early death.


22 posted on 06/29/2014 8:25:08 AM PDT by bd476
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To: Ancient Man

The Battle of Isandlwana and the Battle of Rorke’s Drift occurred on consecutive days.


23 posted on 06/29/2014 8:26:49 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: bd476

Great movie. The little touches really make it. The concern for the singers. The Soldier’s sadness over the calf. The troublemaker who becomes a hero and returns to being a troublemaker.

I think they managed to portray the British Soldiers in a positive manner without disparaging the Zulu warriors.


24 posted on 06/29/2014 8:28:45 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: Ancient Man

You’re welcome, Ancient Man. I agree. I’ve heard it many times and still get choked up listening to it.


25 posted on 06/29/2014 8:29:54 AM PDT by bd476
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To: bd476

I’ll never forget someone here going off at me - maybe two years ago! A complete loon.

The odd thing about British socialists (unlike American scum) is that they are often quite fond of their country and the Empire - as Mr. Baker clearly was if “Zulu” is anything to go by. He had wonderful screen presence and I wish he had made many more movies.

The last thing I saw him in was a remake of “How Green Was My Valley.” He was clearly very ill but wonderful nonetheless.

Glad to know there are Stanley Baker fans out of the closet on FR!


26 posted on 06/29/2014 8:36:00 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: blueunicorn6

The family of Hickie (played by James Booth) was outraged at his portrayal. He apparently was nothing like that heroic rebel and outlaw. But that’s show biz. The final salute of the Zulus is also fictional but who gives a damn?


27 posted on 06/29/2014 8:38:15 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: miss marmelstein
I dare not post on this thread because the last time I did - to praise the wonderful movie “Zulu” - I had a nutty freeper ream me out because Stanley Baker was a socialist commie!
C'mon, you're a New Yawker ... should have told him to go pi$$ up a rope!
Zulu is a great flick and one of my all time favorites.
28 posted on 06/29/2014 8:40:39 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: oh8eleven

I’m sure I snarked back at him but he was wild! STANLEY BAKER IS THE DEVIL, he said.


29 posted on 06/29/2014 8:42:40 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: miss marmelstein
miss marmelstein wrote: "Burton's narration is a thing of beauty in that film. Oh, if he had only sustained his greatness and not gone for the dirty lucre!"

Whoa, what ever could have happened to the last part of your sentence? ;P :D

He gets me every time. I would like to think it's due to his acting, but Burton had something else, some intangible something. Maybe it's as simple as his being Welsh. From earliest childhood I heard all about my Welsh roots, about where "we" were from, so it's entirely possible. Yet who can resist his delivery, his on-screen intensity.

The critique given an artist as being so good that people would pay to hear them recite the telephone directory sometimes isn't just a catchphrase.


30 posted on 06/29/2014 8:45:19 AM PDT by bd476
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To: bd476

The entire movie ZULU is available to view here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meH1Y0tdzLk&feature=youtu.be


31 posted on 06/29/2014 8:51:47 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Unions are an Affirmative Action program for Slackers! .)
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To: bd476; Monkey Face
Not just hear. We want to watch Rex Harrison read from the phone directory (or the Unabridged Dictionary), too.
32 posted on 06/29/2014 8:52:37 AM PDT by Tax-chick (I don't feel obligated to provide you with a non-boring gun.)
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To: miss marmelstein
STANLEY BAKER IS THE DEVIL, he said.
Bologna ... everyone knows that's George W Bush.
33 posted on 06/29/2014 8:52:56 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: blueunicorn6; miss marmelstein
blueunicorn6 wrote: "Great movie. The little touches really make it. The concern for the singers. The Soldier’s sadness over the calf. The troublemaker who becomes a hero and returns to being a troublemaker. I think they managed to portray the British Soldiers in a positive manner without disparaging the Zulu warriors."

Good points and well said, BlueUnicorn6.


34 posted on 06/29/2014 9:00:25 AM PDT by bd476
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To: bd476; vladimir998

He was the third son of a poor Welsh coal-miner who grew up in the 1930s, when real material poverty still existed in Britain. I can understand why people who have experienced such poverty are emotionally drawn to socialism, but modern-day western socialists who have known nothing but wealth and privilege have no such excuse.


35 posted on 06/29/2014 9:01:18 AM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: bd476
Well, I never bought the phone book analogy but Burton had one of the greatest speaking voices of any actor of the 20th century. He was also a very great stage actor - early in his career.

His first role was in the play “A Lady's Not for Burning” in which he played a young servant who scrubbed the floor - his back to the audience. No dialogue. For whatever reason, his presence alone caused audience members to be moved to tears and critics to exclaim at this new force in the theater world. Now that is the stuff of legend. In theater parlance, he had at a young age what is called “hunger.” Success, Elizabeth Taylor and tons of money destroyed that hunger. He also began to dislike acting and turned his talents to writing.

36 posted on 06/29/2014 9:08:05 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: miss marmelstein

The sound in that movie is great. The Zulu running. The Zulu chanting. The Zulu pounding on their shields.

The scene where the British form three ranks and then volley fire by rank is really good. You never see the Zulu falling. Then, the camera pulls back to show a huge pile of dead Zulu reaching ALMOST to the first rank. Really well done. Just quiet and shock on the faces of the British Soldiers.


37 posted on 06/29/2014 9:10:38 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: blueunicorn6

Oh, how I love this movie! Your description alone raised the hair on my arms - and I’m not overly hairy.

Let’s not forget the subplot with a loopy Jack Hawkins who has to be locked in - I think - a wc for demoralizing the troops.


38 posted on 06/29/2014 9:15:15 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: bd476

“Zulu” is my All Time favorite movie. I never get tired of watching it and hating Michael Caine... He was SO good in the role of the arrogant elite!


39 posted on 06/29/2014 9:21:31 AM PDT by Monkey Face (The biggest lie I tell myself is, "I don't need to write that down. I'll remember it."- Aunty Acid)
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To: Tax-chick

Maybe I will watch “Zulu” as a treat for being such a good girl today.


40 posted on 06/29/2014 9:23:53 AM PDT by Monkey Face (The biggest lie I tell myself is, "I don't need to write that down. I'll remember it."- Aunty Acid)
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To: miss marmelstein
miss marmelstein wrote: "I’ll never forget someone here going off at me - maybe two years ago! A complete loon."
It is easy to understand how anyone would have a strong memory and sense of such an experience. In person, at least we might notice the signs, and see little clues of an impending explosion. Yet in text, it's difficult to glean much beyond words and context so that when a volcano erupts, the unexpected impact would hit that much harder.


miss marmelstein wrote: "The odd thing about British socialists (unlike American scum) is that they are often quite fond of their country and the Empire - as Mr. Baker clearly was if 'Zulu' is anything to go by. He had wonderful screen presence and I wish he had made many more movies."

That's right! I think you just hit the nail on the head.

miss marmelstein wrote: "The last thing I saw him in was a remake of “How Green Was My Valley.” He was clearly very ill but wonderful nonetheless.

Glad to know there are Stanley Baker fans out of the closet on FR!"


Thank you, I am glad we agree and even more glad I posted this. I love good acting and sometimes can't help but share my thoughts.

Several years go I sat in a theater for a half hour after seeing a movie with two actors I had never seen before. Thankfully there were others in the theater who remained seated, apparently as moved as me. It floored me what had happened on screen - not the story, not the cinematography, just the acting.

Someone finally spoke up saying "What just happened? That was brilliant! Who are they?" and then others spoke up also giving their thoughts on the outstanding performances.


41 posted on 06/29/2014 9:32:11 AM PDT by bd476
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To: Tax-chick

Rex Harrison is delightful! He’s great! Love this! Thank you!


42 posted on 06/29/2014 9:34:14 AM PDT by bd476
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To: Monkey Face

That’s another thing I love - an actor who is playing the role of a villain and is able to make the villain real, palpable.


43 posted on 06/29/2014 9:40:39 AM PDT by bd476
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To: bd476

Speaking of two actors, just think of the final scenes with Mr. Baker and Mr. Caine - the working class man and the effete snob. But after the battles, they are comrades in arms, laughing hysterically at having survived.


44 posted on 06/29/2014 9:41:32 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: miss marmelstein
miss marmelstein wrote: "Well, I never bought the phone book analogy but Burton had one of the greatest speaking voices of any actor of the 20th century. He was also a very great stage actor - early in his career.

His first role was in the play “A Lady's Not for Burning” in which he played a young servant who scrubbed the floor - his back to the audience. No dialogue. For whatever reason, his presence alone caused audience members to be moved to tears and critics to exclaim at this new force in the theater world. Now that is the stuff of legend. In theater parlance, he had at a young age what is called “hunger.” Success, Elizabeth Taylor and tons of money destroyed that hunger. He also began to dislike acting and turned his talents to writing."


Wow, thank you! Fascinating, and yes, the stuff of legends.


45 posted on 06/29/2014 9:47:22 AM PDT by bd476
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To: miss marmelstein

He was a hero alright, but he was also apparently an exemplary soldier, not the malingering n’er do well portrayed in the film. Presumably the producers thought that would be too boring and wanted a rogue instead.

Apparently, Colour-Sergeant Frank Bourne, who is portrayed as a man well into middle age in the film, was only in his early 20s at the time of the battle, and was the last veteran of that battle to die. Coincidently, he died on the 8th of May 1945 aged 91, on VE Day...


46 posted on 06/29/2014 9:47:42 AM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: miss marmelstein

Yes. An important subplot. He cared about the Zulu and he cared about the Soldiers and he cared about himself and his daughter, and he could do nothing to stop the coming battle and death but drink and yell.


47 posted on 06/29/2014 9:52:06 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: sinsofsolarempirefan

I think James Booth is wonderful as is the characterization. I’m sorry the family was upset but seeing the slothful Hicks finally moved to action and heroics is what filmmaking is all about! And the Color Sergeant always reminds me a little of Arthur Treacher’s performances in earlier films.


48 posted on 06/29/2014 9:53:25 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: miss marmelstein

Old style, pre-war and immediate postwar British socialists may have been patriotic, but I’m not sure that is the case today. Once Communist infiltrators (of the kind Yuri Bezmenov warned us about in the 1980s) got involved, they eventually perverted western leftist groups and turned their members into useful idiots for the Soviet Union. Even though the USSR is long dead, they have never really lost their habit of despising patriotism and damning all its forms as ‘imperialist’ and ‘fascistic’ as their former paymasters wanted them to.


49 posted on 06/29/2014 9:54:30 AM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: miss marmelstein
miss marmelstein wrote: "Speaking of two actors, just think of the final scenes with Mr. Baker and Mr. Caine - the working class man and the effete snob. But after the battles, they are comrades in arms, laughing hysterically at having survived."

That is pure art.

50 posted on 06/29/2014 9:54:38 AM PDT by bd476
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