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10 charged with illegal firearms sales at flea market
Jackson County Floridian ^ | June 29, 2014 | Staff writer

Posted on 06/30/2014 2:28:37 PM PDT by holymoly

Federal agents recently arrested 10 men on charges that they illegally sold firearms from Sadie’s Flea Market, just south of Dothan.

George L. Beck Jr., the U.S. Attorney for the Middle District of Alabama, confirmed federal agents recently arrested 10 people on various illegal firearms charges in connection to an investigation launched by the federal bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Beck said the investigation started after ATF agents received information that guns were being trafficked and sold at Sadie’s Flea Market. Beck said the investigation showed the market had no criminal involvement.

“They began their investigation, and they used undercover witnesses to make purchases,” Beck said.

Beck confirmed some of the charges filed included the sale of firearms without a license, the sale of firearms to a convicted felon and the sale of a firearm by a convicted felon to another convicted felon.

Beck said federal agents seized more than 200 firearms, including rifles, shotguns and pistols, as part of the investigation. He also said agents seized more than 500 rounds of ammunition.

Federal court records show some of the offenses date back to October 2013 and others occurred as recently as March.

“We’re not targeting guns or people’s right to bear arms, but we’re trying to protect it,” Beck said. “It’s so that law-abiding citizens can own guns.”

Beck said there are several reasons why investigations into the illegal sale of firearms are important.

“It’s important because we have a Second Amendment that guarantees everybody the right to bear arms, but Congress has imposed certain rules that need to be followed in order to protect our Second Amendment right to bear arms,” Beck said. “One of those rules is a person is prohibited from knowingly selling a gun to a felon. That rule is important to protect the citizens because we don’t want guns to get into the hands of those who have committed serious crimes.”

Beck said another rule set by Congress included if someone chose to deal in firearms, or sell firearms for profit, then they’re required to be licensed.

“Don’t sell a gun to a known felon, and second don’t engage in the business of selling guns unless you’re a registered dealer,” Beck said. “Undercover agents found both of those rules to have been violated and that’s what brought these charges.”

But Beck also said the “gun act also prohibits someone who is not a dealer from selling a gun to someone who is from out of state.”

“At least one of the defendants was also a convicted felon, which means he should not even have possessed a firearm,” Beck said.

Beck said the prosecution of the violation of federal firearms laws was part of Project Safe Neighborhood Task Force.

“It’s a combination of city, county, state and federal law enforcement dedicated to go after the most violent criminal,” Beck said. “The felon in possession laws is part of that effort.”

The following was released by the U.S. Attorney Office in regard to the 10 people arrested and their charges:

» Richard Allen Cohen, 65, of Graceville, Florida, charged with sale of a firearm to a convicted felon

» Robert Arthur Chudzik III, 27, of Headland, charged with sale of a firearm to a convicted felon

» William Dean, 84, of Whigham, Georgia, charged with sale of a firearm to a convicted felon

» Charles T. Grimes, 56, of Opp, charged with sale of a firearm to a convicted felon, dealing firearms without a license, conspiracy and aiding and abetting

» Thomas P. Knowles, 47, of Chancellor, charged with sale of a firearm to a convicted felon, conspiracy and aiding and abetting

» Marvin T. Jones, 70, of Dothan, charged with the sale of a firearm to a convicted felon, possession of a firearm by a convicted felon and dealing in firearms without a license

» David R. Loftin, 64, of LaGrange, Georgia, charged with the sale of a firearm to a convicted felon and dealing in firearms without a license

» Ronald D. Sloan, 64, of Cottondale, Florida, charged with the sale of a firearm to a convicted felon

» Charles P. Sly, 75, of Slocomb, charged with the sale of a firearm to a convicted felon, possession of a firearm by a convicted felon and dealing in firearms without a license

» Brent E. Underwood, 60, of Coffee Springs, charged with the sale of a firearm to a convicted felon.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: atf; banglist; wtf
[Apologies for being a day late on this one.]

Beck confirmed some of the charges filed included the sale of firearms without a license

Since when does federal law (Beck us a US Attorney) require a license to sell a firearm?

and second don’t engage in the business of selling guns unless you’re a registered dealer

And there's the whole point of this "investigation". Stop the private sale of firearms, by inducing the fear that you could, inadvertently, sell a firearm to a paid ATF "undercover witness", who also happens to be a convicted felon.

1 posted on 06/30/2014 2:28:37 PM PDT by holymoly
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To: holymoly
But Beck also said the “gun act also prohibits someone who is not a dealer from selling a gun to someone who is from out of state.”

??

2 posted on 06/30/2014 2:32:00 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: holymoly

Good to know that the feds are targeting rural flea markets instead of the fruits of islam and MS 13 types that are flying across our border.
Hope this crap comes back to bite them hard. Karma style.


3 posted on 06/30/2014 2:32:50 PM PDT by Texas resident (The democrat party is the CPUSA)
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To: holymoly
“We’re not targeting guns or people’s right to bear arms, but we’re trying to protect it,” Beck said. “It’s so that law-abiding citizens can own guns.”

YEAH, RIGHT

4 posted on 06/30/2014 2:34:56 PM PDT by mabarker1 (Please, Somebody Impeach the kenyan!!!! Once again dingy hairball, STFU!!! You corrupt POS!!!)
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To: holymoly

The medical costs of housing them fellas will far outweigh any message sent. Ya see the age of some of them?


5 posted on 06/30/2014 2:36:55 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi - Revolution is a'brewin!!!)
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To: holymoly

SOOO, when are these same feds going to go into Chicago or DC to clamp down on firearms sales to known felons?
Hmmmm?


6 posted on 06/30/2014 2:37:22 PM PDT by Texas resident (The democrat party is the CPUSA)
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To: holymoly
“They began their investigation, and they used undercover witnesses to make purchases,” Beck said.

Maybe I'm misreading this -- but did ATF actually hire convicted felons to make purchases? (Otherwise, why would the sale be illegal????)

7 posted on 06/30/2014 2:39:08 PM PDT by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: GeronL

The undercover agents must have told the sellers that they had a record or that they were from out of state.

You’d have to be a fool to sell to anyone who tells you that, or shows you an out of state ID.

The key word is “knowingly”...


8 posted on 06/30/2014 2:39:12 PM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: GeronL

“A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.”

From the ATF website.


9 posted on 06/30/2014 2:40:45 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (RINOS like Romney, McCain, Christie are sure losers. No more!)
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To: Texas resident

They won’t because they would end up arresting a large part of the Chicago Police Dept. and city employees.


10 posted on 06/30/2014 2:41:37 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (Surgeon General Warning: Operation of Government Motors vehicles may be hazardous to your health)
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To: GeronL

The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11]


11 posted on 06/30/2014 2:41:47 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (RINOS like Romney, McCain, Christie are sure losers. No more!)
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To: holymoly

Sale to a convicted Felon —

Was that Felon also arrested?


12 posted on 06/30/2014 2:44:01 PM PDT by Scrambler Bob (You can count my felonies by looking at my FR replies.)
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To: Sooth2222

Yup!

Its the criminals vs. the productive citizens, as always.

Unfortunately, the criminals have taken over the government.


13 posted on 06/30/2014 2:45:36 PM PDT by LucianOfSamasota (Tanstaafl - its not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: holymoly
"...That rule is important to protect the citizens because we don’t want guns to get into the hands of those who have committed serious crimes.”

If these guys are such badass criminals, why are they walking around free in the first place?

14 posted on 06/30/2014 2:47:25 PM PDT by Disambiguator (#cornedbeef)
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To: holymoly

Wow, and 500rds of ammunition as in one .22 brick. I thought you could do private gun sales.


15 posted on 06/30/2014 2:48:46 PM PDT by SkyDancer (If you don't read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read newspapers you are misinformed)
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To: GeronL
the gun act also prohibits someone who is not a dealer from selling a gun to someone who is from out of state
27 CFR 478.29

It's an ATF regulation.

16 posted on 06/30/2014 2:48:58 PM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Scrambler Bob
"Was that Felon also arrested?"

No way would they endanger their informants.

17 posted on 06/30/2014 2:54:20 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: holymoly
“At least one of the defendants was also a convicted felon, which means he should not even have possessed a firearm,” Beck said.

Well he was tring to get rid of it.

18 posted on 06/30/2014 3:02:38 PM PDT by Doomonyou (Let them eat Lead.)
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To: holymoly

ATF, IRS, BLM, and “Homeland Security” are rogue arms of the Obama Administration which need to be dissolved.


19 posted on 06/30/2014 3:02:50 PM PDT by ZULU (Impeach Obama NOW.)
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To: holymoly

This is the Obamabastard ruling once again by phone, pen and government
agencies.


20 posted on 06/30/2014 3:05:06 PM PDT by ZULU (Impeach Obama NOW.)
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To: holymoly
not saying it's right, but it might have to do with frequency and number... iirc if you sell more than three or maybe five cars in a year you are considered a dealer/need a dealers license

the batFAGS prolly have some similar rule

21 posted on 06/30/2014 3:06:51 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: NormsRevenge

It’s all about arrest numbers and control of the sheeple. Much easier to arrest older rural Floridians than gang members, illegal immigrant felons and less investigative paperwork than big financial fraudsters. Occasional private sales of firearms are legal. I suspect the sales to felons & to of staters were buyers sent there by the cops to gin up the arrests.


22 posted on 06/30/2014 3:09:14 PM PDT by RicocheT (It ain’t a party ’til the dogs are eating the corpses in the street.)
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To: holymoly

This does not pass the stink test.

How did so many individuals find convicted felons to sell to?

Did the feds set a convicted felon up in the business of buying guns to entrap individuals selling personal firearms?


23 posted on 06/30/2014 3:13:23 PM PDT by Iron Munro (The Obamas Black skin has morphed into Teflon thanks to the Obama Media)
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To: ZULU
ATF, IRS, BLM, and “Homeland Security” are rogue arms of the Obama Administration which need to be dissolved.

They were rouge arms of the Bush Administration too but no one cared. They were hitting Tennessee Flea Markets in his terms and USDA's were eager to teach the gangster grandpas a lesson about da law and prison system.

24 posted on 06/30/2014 3:13:57 PM PDT by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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To: NormsRevenge

When/if I get to see 75 years of age and have no assets to seize and can’t fund my meds, I’m going to start selling firearms to undercover agents for the free housing and medicals.


25 posted on 06/30/2014 3:14:53 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Obama - The Scandal a Week President.)
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To: Doomonyou

““At least one of the defendants was also a convicted felon, which means he should not even have possessed a firearm,” Beck said.
Well he was tring to get rid of it. “

And that is one of my buddy’s problems. He inherited some wonderful skeet and trap guns from his father. Kreighoff 4 barrel skeet set. Dockwiller stock, Koloch(sp) engraved. Tons of gold, pheasants rising, filigree, etc.. He has them hidden, but would like to sell them. He has a felony conviction, no jail time, for pot 40 years ago. What should he do? Give them to me to sell? Would that be legal? Or should he have a “boating accident?”


26 posted on 06/30/2014 3:24:00 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: holymoly

You can sell firearms ... but don’t make a “business” out of it, unless you’re registered/licensed to do so.

Selling your own stuff is okay, but if you do “buy/sell” - “buy/sell” - “buy/sell” and making money at that process, then you’re “in business”.

The second thing was selling firearms to felons.


27 posted on 06/30/2014 3:46:36 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

You want to stay away from your buddy’s problem ... :-) ...


28 posted on 06/30/2014 3:47:51 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: holymoly

I suspect that this bust was done “not in good faith”. That is, they know that the charges wouldn’t stand up in court, but they are rated on “arrests” not “convictions”.

If a prosecutor is in on the deal, he might threaten them with severe sentences unless they plea to lesser charges, figuring on railroading them.

And worse of all, if they have a judge in on the scam, he will ignore that the busts were corrupt, and that they are being railroaded, and convict them anyway.


29 posted on 06/30/2014 3:48:18 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("Don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative." -Obama, 09-24-11)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

I’d do it for a friend. One at a time. Those are too nice to keep hidden.


30 posted on 06/30/2014 4:03:40 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Obama - The Scandal a Week President.)
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To: BipolarBob

“Those are too nice to keep hidden.”

Yes they are! The Kreighoff is incredible. The best craftsmen at every level. His SKB Model 800 is a wonderful Trap gun. Love to own it! But he has no clue what to do! His infraction? He introduced Dave to Mike 40 years ago. That’s all he did. Dave was a narc. He made no money, just introduced two guys. Heavy price to pay, eh?


31 posted on 06/30/2014 4:11:16 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: holymoly

There are way too many holes in this.

In the list of people being charged, every single one includes selling a firearm to a convicted felon. However, no one is charged with weapons possession as a convicted felon. So who’s the felon that they sold to and why hasn’t he been charged? Can the BATFE prove that they knew he/she was a convicted felon before selling the firearm? If they can, how? If the convicted felon was a plant placed there by the BATFE, then the defense’s case has already been made: The BATFE was setting them up, which is illegal! One more thing to add to the list of charges against that rogue agency.

They also accuse them of selling weapons for profit without a license. However, that’s also a tricky one. To prove that, they need to prove that these people were intentionally buying guns for the purpose of selling them at a higher price. If they bought and sold the guns at around their market value, then they were not selling them for profit. If they bought them for themselves, decided they didn’t want to keep them, and then sold them, then they were not trying to profit off it. If a BATFE agent sold a gun to one of them at a steep discount, and then another BATFE agent offered to buy it from him at the market value, then the case could again be made that the BATFE agents were setting them up. And again, that’s another one to add to the BATFE’s rap sheet.

I’m very curious to see how this plays out. Last time the BATFE pulled one of these stunts, it backfired in their face like nobody’s business when a newspaper (Milwaukee, I think) did an expose on their criminal-manufacturing enterprise.


32 posted on 06/30/2014 4:23:24 PM PDT by lcms rev
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To: lcms rev

*Correction: Two of them were convicted felons. Still, how can the BATFE prove that they knew the other was a convicted felon, or that any of the others knew they were convicted felons?


33 posted on 06/30/2014 4:25:48 PM PDT by lcms rev
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

That’s the problem when Morons are given powers to write {cough cough make up} gun laws. Violent felon? Ok yea they may have a point there but only for so long. Person would have a history of doing serious bodily harm or using a firearm to commit a robbery etc. By that too I don’t mean simple assault either. But non violent felonies? There is no logical reason to deny firearm ownership to someone after their time or probation is up.


34 posted on 06/30/2014 4:28:27 PM PDT by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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To: holymoly

“It’s important because we have a Second Amendment that guarantees everybody the right to bear arms, but Congress has imposed certain rules that need to be followed in order to protect our Second Amendment right to bear arms,”

????
Um, isn’t that “infringement”?


35 posted on 06/30/2014 4:31:02 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

Too heavy a price to pay. Has he tried to get the conviction erased? I’d talk to a lawyer about getting firearms rights restored.


36 posted on 06/30/2014 4:50:09 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Obama - The Scandal a Week President.)
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To: BipolarBob

Hey, they’ll pay for dang near everything these days.

Organ transplants for death row convicts next?

Chinese imports, but Hey.


37 posted on 06/30/2014 5:20:03 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi - Revolution is a'brewin!!!)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

He should get an attorney and get the felony expunged from his record.


38 posted on 06/30/2014 6:03:20 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Name your illness, do a Google & YouTube search with "hydrogen peroxide". Do it and be surprised.)
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To: holymoly
It doesn't.... and I am willing to bet that there were no "Firearms" sold, and since no firearms were sold even to convicted felons... there is no crime.

26 U.S. Code § 5845 (a) Firearm The term “firearm” means
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e);
(6) a machinegun;
(7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and
(8) a destructive device. The term “firearm” shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the
date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector’s item and is not likely to be used as a weapon. (a) Firearm

39 posted on 07/01/2014 4:23:36 AM PDT by SERE_DOC ( “The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.” TJ.)
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To: holymoly
Are "RULES" laws..?? I think not...Laws are SUPOSE to be "legislated", not made up as "rules" by some stinking bureaucrat..!

It's damned tough for the common man to claim and KEEP his rights the way things are in our country today... It cost a LOT of money to be free... The government owns all the courts, the lawyers and the money...

I remember watching Randy Weaver setting before Arlen Specter (spit!) and Specter saying "See, you thought you would never receive justice...now look at all the justice your getting..!" I think they gave him a million bucks to pay for the family he lost... Just look how far Randy had to go to receive even a SMIDGIN of justice..

What justice did Randy receive? Is the sniper that murdered his wife and kids in jail.?? How about the federal officers that tried to entrap and enslave him in the beginning of his ordeal..? I think not..!

If your not rich...your not free...your just ONE trip to the courthouse from servitude...

40 posted on 07/01/2014 6:07:58 AM PDT by unread (Rescind the 17th. Amendment...bring the power BACK to the states...!)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
See a lawyer. Probably could get the pot conviction removed.
41 posted on 07/01/2014 6:20:26 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: cva66snipe

NO argument there.

Reagan wanted to dismantle ATF before the Establishment RINOs stopped him.


42 posted on 07/01/2014 9:44:04 AM PDT by ZULU (Impeach Obama NOW.)
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To: SERE_DOC

Quick question: Is a Judge pistol shooting a .410 Shell a shotgun?
Thanks.
G.


43 posted on 07/01/2014 10:17:30 AM PDT by GOYAKLA (Waiting for the Golden Screw to be removed from Obama's navel and his a$$ falls off!)
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To: GOYAKLA
I think it goes to "*modified weapons" and the misnomer of the machine gun being illegal, they are not, provided that you get a tax stamp for an automatic weapon.

"*modified weapons" back in the 30's the use of sawed off weapons (Al Capone) and machine guns were liberally used, and the favorite weapon of Bonnie & Clyde was the BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle) sawed off.

44 posted on 07/01/2014 6:52:36 PM PDT by SERE_DOC ( “The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.” TJ.)
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