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The Hobby Lobby decision isnít narrow
MSNBC ^ | June 30, 2014 | Irin Carmon

Posted on 06/30/2014 10:08:14 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

The Supreme Court’s 5-4 decision in Burwell v. Hobby Lobby is being called narrow by some analysts, but that’s true only in that Hobby Lobby got everything it wanted and nothing more. In her blistering dissent Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg correctly called it “a decision of startling breadth.”

The question before the Court was twofold: Do corporations enjoy the same protections for religious liberty as individuals do? And if so, does providing contraceptive coverage in an employee health plan – as required under the Affordable Care Act – violate that liberty?

Justice Samuel Alito, writing for all of the Republican-appointed justices, answered “yes” to both questions.

Giving for-profit corporations exemption from the law, he said, “protects the religious liberty of the humans who own and control them.” He said “any suggestion that for-profit corporations are incapable of exercising religion because their purpose is simply to make money flies in the face of modern corporate law.”

That religious exercise was being burdened by employee birth control coverage, Alito said – especially when the government could just provide birth control directly to women, or require insurers to provide it directly to employees.

The majority brought no such passion to considering the real-life impact on employees – in this case, women.

That was where Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg stepped in, furiously. Joined in full by Justice Sonia Sotomayor and in part by Justices Stephen Breyer and Elena Kagan, Ginsburg pointed out that the ruling was radical because “exemptions had never been granted to any entity operating in ‘the commercial, profit-making world.’”(continued)

(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 35pagesoftripe; abortion; alito; contraception; contraceptives; dnctalkingpoints; hobbylobby; pravdamedia; ruthbaderginsburg; ruthginsberg; scotus; supremecourt
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You should see that comments over there!
1 posted on 06/30/2014 10:08:14 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

A bit miffed, are they?


2 posted on 06/30/2014 10:13:02 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The SCOTUS Obama”care” vote was the one of startling breadth, Ms. Buzzi.


3 posted on 06/30/2014 10:16:22 PM PDT by fullchroma (iCitizen)
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To: Army Air Corps

They are explosively angry. You’d think it was Bush v. Gore again. Abortion is the most important sacrament of the Democratic Party.


4 posted on 06/30/2014 10:16:50 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

They worship Molech whether they realise it or not. Their false got demands ferver.


5 posted on 06/30/2014 10:18:38 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (Why do you need a fire extinguisher when you can call the fire department?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Those fools are going crazy. No logic, all mushy feelings crap.


6 posted on 06/30/2014 10:20:56 PM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
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>> In her blistering dissent Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg correctly called it “a decision of startling breadth.”

Boohoo...


7 posted on 06/30/2014 10:23:28 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

That odious slug Ginsburg even admitted that the point of abortion was “to get rid of people that we do not want to have too many of”. In other words she let slip that abortion was all about Eugenics. That is the true reason why they protect abortion so much because to them abortion is just a clever method to get people to consent to population control. There is no such thing as “a right” to abortion [ killing of the unborn ] which is just a fabricated talking point attempting to class up the brutal killing of PEOPLE! The pro Death side always like to sidestep that important point.


8 posted on 06/30/2014 10:24:23 PM PDT by Republican1795.
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

That odious slug Ginsburg even admitted that the point of abortion was “to get rid of people that we do not want to have too many of”. In other words she let slip that abortion was all about Eugenics. That is the true reason why they protect abortion so much because to them abortion is just a clever method to get people to consent to population control. There is no such thing as “a right” to abortion [ killing of the unborn ] which is just a fabricated talking point attempting to class up the brutal killing of PEOPLE! The pro Death side always like to sidestep that important point.


9 posted on 06/30/2014 10:24:27 PM PDT by Republican1795.
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

It was smaller than narrow.


10 posted on 06/30/2014 10:25:37 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: Republican1795.

11 posted on 06/30/2014 10:27:27 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: nickcarraway

I hope this protects the Little Sisters, and all the Christian hospitals who would rather close their doors than pay for abortion and contraceptives.

At $9 per month the pill is affordable, a fraction of what a person pays for cellphone per month. Pay for the pill yourself.


12 posted on 06/30/2014 10:29:14 PM PDT by Zenjitsuman (New Boss Nancy Pelosi)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse
In CO, Mark Udall's campaign is running on abortion and abortion only. He thinks that is a winning issue. He hasn't done anything in CO except rubber stamping Osama's agenda. Outside groups are accusing his opponent's view as "too extreme for CO." People wouldn't vote for a Mormon President, but will for this Mormon.
13 posted on 06/30/2014 10:29:46 PM PDT by DISCO
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To: laplata
I read a few and there are no sane posts. If anybody thinks for one sec that these people in full
socialist mode will make a better America they are delusional. Those people are extremely dangerous.
The only thing keeping them harnessed from killing Christians and political opposition is the 2nd Amendment.
14 posted on 06/30/2014 10:30:26 PM PDT by MaxMax (Pay Attention and you'll be pissed off too! FIRE BOEHNER, NOW!)
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To: Republican1795.; All

Contraceptive coverage is primarily to prevent the pregnancies that someone might want to abort, so why isn’t it a good thing? Also just wait until some Muslim owned companies don’t want to do or allow something that their employees feel is their right.


15 posted on 06/30/2014 10:30:52 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Ginsburg is wrong. Kennedy even went to the trouble of addressing her irresponsible exaggerations in his own opinion.


16 posted on 06/30/2014 10:32:52 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
And if so, does providing contraceptive coverage in an employee health plan – as required under the Affordable Care Act

Notice the sleight of hand they've been using in this whole thing? It's not the contraceptive coverage that Hobby Lobby was questioning, it was the ABORTION coverage. But abortion doesn't poll well for them so they have to drag the argument over to something that does poll well -- contraception.

17 posted on 06/30/2014 10:35:41 PM PDT by ElkGroveDan (My tagline is in the shop.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
It's a narrow decision much like many other decisions by the Roberts court. The CJ’s imprint on the SC during his term has been to return it to a Judicially Conservative Court rather than and Ideological Court which many both on the left and right don't seem to understand.

This decision only applies to closely held corporations. It's not a blow to the ACA in fact it probably will further entrench it in the future as it gives the executive branch free reign to cover contraceptives for employees of those companies that don't offer them and pay for these services with taxpayer dollars. The companies may not have to offer it but they like everybody else will ultimately pay for it through taxes.

IMHO it greases the skids on single payer...

18 posted on 06/30/2014 10:36:31 PM PDT by montanajoe
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To: ElkGroveDan

Reminder: Hobby Lobby Provides Coverage for 16 Types of Contraception
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3174342/posts


19 posted on 06/30/2014 10:37:26 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Irin Carmon (@irin) tweeted at 10:10pm - 30 Jun 14:

@SteveKrak @katepickert yet another problem is that even if admin goes with HHS fix —not given —can change with next admin. Unlike statute (https://twitter.com/irin/status/483809771737198593)


20 posted on 06/30/2014 10:38:48 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

No need to remind me.


21 posted on 06/30/2014 10:39:51 PM PDT by ElkGroveDan (My tagline is in the shop.)
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To: MaxMax

You are exactly right. Progressives are very evil and vile creatures. They would force us into the cattle cars in a split second.

Yes, the 2nd Amendment is their enemy.


22 posted on 06/30/2014 10:40:11 PM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
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To: gleeaikin

Two points.

First, if you want to have sex do it on your own dime. It is a choice.

Second, if you don’t like the policies of a Muslim owned company then don’t work for it.

It is as simple as that.


23 posted on 06/30/2014 10:41:52 PM PDT by DB
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
He said “any suggestion that for-profit corporations are incapable of exercising religion because their purpose is simply to make money flies in the face of modern corporate law.”

Islam is exempt from Obamacare. Are Islamist business owners exempted from having to cover kufir on the payroll? Do Islamist business owners HAVE any non-muslims on staff?

24 posted on 06/30/2014 10:45:13 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (The new witchhunt: "Do you NOW, . . . or have you EVER , . . supported traditional marriage?")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Money bags Clinton thinks contraception is pretty expensive.

$9.00 month for birth control pills...

yep! she's in touch!


25 posted on 06/30/2014 10:45:35 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: DISCO

I’m attending a gathering with Cory Gardner here in La Plata County, CO on July 6. I can’t wait to give Gardner an ear full. Udall must go.


26 posted on 06/30/2014 10:47:10 PM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
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To: gleeaikin

I’ve never understood this thinking either. I’d gladly pay for contraception coverage if it saved one baby from being sucked down a drain.


27 posted on 06/30/2014 10:47:21 PM PDT by TightyRighty (I enjoy well-mannered frivolity.)
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To: TightyRighty

Hobby Lobby DOES cover most forms of that, but not “Plan B” type pills.


28 posted on 06/30/2014 10:49:47 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: gleeaikin

You’re mixing your analogies. While the Muslim company has no business telling people they can’t eat pork after hours, it would certainly be wrong to legally REQUIRE the company to purchase and provide pork to their employees, just because their employees have the right to eat pork. That’s the analogy to what was covered under this ruling.


29 posted on 06/30/2014 10:55:53 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
A corporation is a group of people. It isn't a thing - it is a plural of people.

A corporation holds the same rights as an individual with the distinction of being plural.

To incorporate is to consolidate the rights of the individuals as to benefit the whole of the group.

Our nation was formed as a corporation known as "We the people."

30 posted on 06/30/2014 10:56:18 PM PDT by Slyfox (When progressives ignore moral parameters, they also lose the natural gift of common sense.)
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To: gleeaikin

Contraceptive coverage isn’t the issue, abortion is.


31 posted on 06/30/2014 11:00:55 PM PDT by ArmstedFragg (Hoaxey Dopey Changey)
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To: gleeaikin

What’s not good about it is that forcing the owners of Hobby Lobby to pay for and subsidize a drug that causes the spontaneous abortion of a fertilized egg would be violating their their right to practice their religious beliefs.

You apparently do not have a problem with contraception or abortifacients. If you did, I’m sure that you would not care what other people choose to do with unplanned pregnancies, but you would not want to be forced to pay to terminate conceived life either.


32 posted on 06/30/2014 11:01:51 PM PDT by motoman (")
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To: gleeaikin

Why should we care? No one is forced to work for Muslim owned companies. The idea that the federal government has blurred the line so much between private business and the federal sphere is the problem. Such regulations were never meant to be at the federal level. I personally would’ve loved if the ruling went further in affirming individual liberty in the ownership of a business and used freedom of conscience as something that can apply to any business. Its not as if there is any lack of left wing companies like Mozilla that think firing anyone who doesn’t agree with gay marriage is just great and I’m all good with that provided that conservative companies can make the same kind of decisions when hiring a firing from a conservative basis.

I believe it is healthy. What is killing and dividing America is the growing federal strait jacket where the left is using regulations to force their views onto everyone else with patently unconstitutional laws like VAWA and ENDA and Equal pay bs and worse like Obamacare. This ruling reasserts in a small way that the federal government does NOT get to foist its social views on private business overriding the religious views of the owners and that is a very good thing. It is the path to deconstructing the behemoth if built upon.

Either way the beast is going to come down. The only difference is if it can be done peacefully or not. I prefer peacefully through reassertion of the constitution but we still have a problem with an oligarchy and elected officials that don’t seem to think anything limits them and there is only one solution if that persists and that is a Bastille day.

http://rock.rapgenius.com/Rush-bastille-day-lyrics


33 posted on 06/30/2014 11:31:43 PM PDT by Maelstorm (America wasn't founded with the battle cry of "Give me Liberty or cut me a government check!".)
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To: Republican1795.

“That is the true reason why they protect abortion so much because to them abortion is just a clever method to get people to consent to population control”

ok, because i’m in the mood for an academic exercise, i’m going to disagree with that. first, I don’t think Marxists care if people agree with them, its their way or the highway. we’ll get population control whether we like it or not.
I think they like birth control for two reasons.
one, there is huge money for clinics and doctors. and a lot comes from government subsidies. Marxists like that income the best.
and two, liberals know most conservatives are against birth control because of religious beliefs, and they believe they can win that argument in popular culture and at the ballot box.


34 posted on 06/30/2014 11:37:21 PM PDT by willywill
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To: montanajoe

You are right but its not like the government isn’t already funding those things. This ruling doesn’t go far enough but its better than a loss which would’ve opened the flood gates to this kind of stuff. We have a long way to go before we re-establish true individual liberty as it was meant to be in this country. The degree of unconstitutional bs where businesses are concerned is a mountain. The founders never intended for the federal government to micromanage business the way it does.


35 posted on 06/30/2014 11:39:00 PM PDT by Maelstorm (America wasn't founded with the battle cry of "Give me Liberty or cut me a government check!".)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

They have to get the disillusioned Obama voters ginned up for the election this fall by arousing the worst in them.


36 posted on 06/30/2014 11:41:06 PM PDT by Nextrush (OBAMACARE IS A BAILOUT FOR THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Which is why 2014 & 2016 elections take on greater meaning. SCOTUS is one liberal appointee away from reversing everything dear to the hearts of conservatives.

If senate stays democrat after 2014, Obummer will appoint extreme liberal replacement justices and they will be approved on fast track via change of rules by Harry Reid.. If Hillary or other extreme liberals win WH in 2016, 2 to 4 liberal justices will be ensconced in SCOTUS, with lasting impact of 30 years.

Whoever wins republican primaries will get my vote. I don't care if it is the dog catcher. Anything beats Hillary.

37 posted on 06/30/2014 11:53:10 PM PDT by entropy12 (Obummer = worst president ever, Jimmy Carter is happy he is no longer the worst.)
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To: Moonman62

MOre Ginsburg clones are waiting in the wings. Many justices are old and could be gone quickly. Harry Reid will eliminate filibuster rules for fast track senate approvals.


38 posted on 06/30/2014 11:56:28 PM PDT by entropy12 (Obummer = worst president ever, Jimmy Carter is happy he is no longer the worst.)
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To: ElkGroveDan
But what's the fun of contraception if nobody dies? < /lib>


39 posted on 07/01/2014 12:11:35 AM PDT by gitmo (If your theology doesn't become your biography, what good is it?)
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To: entropy12

I heard on FOX today that liberals are calling on Ginsberg to retire now so Obama can replace her while they have the senate. They said they fear they will lose the senate in November and Obama will be forced to nominate a moderate.

LA Times Calls for Ruth Bader Ginsburg to Retire Now to Ensure a Liberal Replacement.

I wonder what Reid is going to think about his new rules when he is no longer in charge.


40 posted on 07/01/2014 12:18:57 AM PDT by 1035rep
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To: motoman

You are correct. However, one would never learn this from this MSNBC article. This key fact is conveniently hidden from the readers.


41 posted on 07/01/2014 12:19:03 AM PDT by gitmo (If your theology doesn't become your biography, what good is it?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

they are going batsh1t crazy.

they are all for’individual rights and the right of people to say yes or no, when it’s stuff they believe or disapprove of.

you can’t even talk to people like this.


42 posted on 07/01/2014 12:20:51 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man ( Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

what a dolt of an author..... he misstates the case for his own purposes and then sets up straw men to rile the masses


43 posted on 07/01/2014 1:44:18 AM PDT by Nifster
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Abortion is the most important sacrament of the Democratic Party.”

When our soldiers came home from Vietnam the anti-war left would, “greet” them by yelling, “baby killers” at them. Now the left kills babies under the banner of, “pro-choice”.


44 posted on 07/01/2014 2:41:29 AM PDT by outofsalt
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To: ElkGroveDan

“It’s not the contraceptive coverage that Hobby Lobby was questioning, it was the ABORTION coverage”

Yep, and the Media has not and will not accurately report this. And our side doesn’t help things when we can’t even get that fact straight when it comes time to talk our Lib. friends from off the cliff.


45 posted on 07/01/2014 3:06:30 AM PDT by DAC21
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To: gleeaikin

Kindly tell me, what the hell is wrong with you?

Seriously, you think it’s a good idea to use federal law to force third parties to pay for abortifacients? (which if you’d bothered to actually read the ruling was an important element of the legal arguments)

You’ve got a heroic quantity of fuzzy-brained nonsense and hyperbole going on in your post. Tell me, precisely, how does not paying for someone’s morning after pill equate, in your warped mind, to muslim companies not allowing “something that their employees feel is their right”?

What precise effing right is being abridged here? The right to force someone to pay for your abortifacients?!?! Where do you people come up with this crap? Why in the hell do you think... pardon me, “feel” since you’re obviously not thinking, why in the hell do you “feel” that your ‘rights’ are being infringed when other people aren’t being forced to foot the bill for contraceptives or abortifacients?

Is your concept of liberty contingent upon being free from both the consequences of your own misbehavior AND free from having to pay the bill for your own abortion drugs?


46 posted on 07/01/2014 3:38:05 AM PDT by jameslalor
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The ruling may be broader than commonly thought. If a corporation can refuse parts of Obuggercare on religious grounds then certainly individuals can also.


47 posted on 07/01/2014 3:51:12 AM PDT by Brooklyn Attitude (Things are only going to get worse.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
In her blistering dissent Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg correctly called it “a decision of startling breadth.”

The only thing that dried up old prune has that is blistering is a visage. It blisters the eyes of normal people who look at her or the ears of normal people who hear her.

48 posted on 07/01/2014 4:25:11 AM PDT by stevem
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To: willywill

“Most conservatives are against contraception”

Incorrect. Most or all conservatives are against abortion. Contraception is fine. Just don’t make me pay for someone else’s contraception. And don’t make me pay for abortions.


49 posted on 07/01/2014 9:20:25 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: kcvl

I find it interesting that they list “control over their own body’s” and “control over the size of their families”. Don’t want a large family? Don’t have unprotected sex with someone other than your husband. And if you are married and can’t afford birth control pills and/or condoms, there are options for you.


50 posted on 07/01/2014 9:57:29 AM PDT by ro_dreaming (Chesterton, 'Christianity has not been tried and found wanting. It’s been found hard and not tried')
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