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Officials say power grid is on the brink {New England}
SeacoastOnline ^ | July 01, 2014 | Deborah McDermott

Posted on 07/02/2014 4:36:24 AM PDT by thackney

New England states are united in proposing that a tariff be imposed on electricity rates throughout the region to fund more natural gas pipelines and increased transmission infrastructure — to reverse electricity costs that are among the highest in the nation.

The proposal is a necessary step because the region has limited gas pipeline capacity despite a demand that has grown from 6 percent in 2000 to 46 percent in 2013, energy experts said at a forum sponsored by The New England Council at St. Anselm's College in Manchester Monday.

At the same time, more and more coal-fired, oil and even nuclear power plants are retiring, which have acted as a more reasonably priced back up during cold New England days when natural gas supplies have been curtailed.

And many of these reasonably priced alternatives emit greenhouse gases and therefore come at an environmental cost, said experts, as New England states seek to reduce carbon emissions.

The end result is a "precarious" situation that has in the last four winters placed New England "on the brink of reliability," said Gordon van Welie, president and CEO of ISO-New England, which oversees the operation of New England's bulk electric power system.

For instance this past winter, electricity prices soared as gas pipelines were operating at capacity but demand was much higher. Van Welie said the wholesale energy market in New England for the months of December, 2013 and January and February, 2014, was about $5 billion — the same value of the entire 12 months of 2012.

It is a situation that energy experts for the states of Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts and Rhode Island called untenable — particularly economically.

"New England is losing out" on a natural gas "boom" that is going on elsewhere in the country, said Patrick Woodcock, the director of the Maine Governor's Energy Office.

"We've had companies looking at Maine, and when they sharpened their pencils and looked at the energy costs, they say, 'No thank you. We're going where there's lower energy costs,'" he said.

The six states, at the direction of their governors, have formed the New England Committee on Electricity to come up with solutions. On June 20, the committee proposed that a tariff be imposed to add natural gas pipelines and transmission lines with the goal of increasing power reliability throughout the region.

While they stress this is a preliminary proposal and states are working on a solution, the energy panelists said something has to give in New England.

"We would prefer the magic market-based solution," said Nicholas Ucci of the Rhode Island Office of Energy Resources, "but that solution has not come forward."


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Maine; US: Massachusetts; US: New Hampshire
KEYWORDS: electricity; energy; naturalgas; pipeline
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1 posted on 07/02/2014 4:36:24 AM PDT by thackney
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To: thackney
"We would prefer the magic market-based solution," said Nicholas Ucci of the Rhode Island Office of Energy Resources, "but that solution has not come forward."
Nonsense. The magic market-based forces are always at work. If there is not enough capacity, it is because there is not enough profit to overcome the regulatory hurdles.
2 posted on 07/02/2014 4:41:46 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: thackney
Hey! I have a solution! How about you don't "retire" any power sources until you have alternatives in-place with which to replace them?

No?

Well, bye!

3 posted on 07/02/2014 4:42:02 AM PDT by apoxonu
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To: thackney

Only to liberals - higher taxes will lead to lower energy costs.

Let them freeze in the dark...


4 posted on 07/02/2014 4:43:08 AM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: thackney

They should go out and Hug-A-Tree!


5 posted on 07/02/2014 4:43:15 AM PDT by leprechaun9
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To: Cboldt

to overcome the regulatory hurdles

BTTT

and the real reason some areas are far more expensive than others...


6 posted on 07/02/2014 4:46:08 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

I see lawn signs everywhere rejecting gas pipeline development.

Rational people have no problem with gas pipeline developmnet, buyt the moonbats are anti-engergy and NIMBY fanatics, and they are the prevailing political force.


7 posted on 07/02/2014 4:46:39 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: thackney

We live there and my wife depends upon an oxygen machine. If power goes out I’ve got a generator but that’s only good for a couple of days.


8 posted on 07/02/2014 4:48:33 AM PDT by McGruff (It's not the crime, it's the cover-up they said.)
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To: thackney

Raise the rates, lower the demand. How’s that for a “magic market solution”?


9 posted on 07/02/2014 4:48:49 AM PDT by Born to Conserve
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To: thackney

No natural gas should flow to NeoEuropa....... let the yankees freeze, in the dark

That is the logical recourse for hating energy, hating America


10 posted on 07/02/2014 4:49:02 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Obama is public enemy #1)
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To: thackney
as New England states seek to reduce carbon emissions.

...

It is a situation that energy experts for the states of Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts and Rhode Island called untenable — particularly economically. Electricity production causes carbon dioxide production except in nuclear and hydro. There isnn't enough hydo and nuc to produce the electricity that the government loving freedom hating populations of the northeast want. WELL let them live in the dark and freeze. They want to "curb greenhouse gasses" for the non existant threat of "global (globull) warming" Well here's their chance to do their part. F*** 'em Let them hug their picture of 0 and the first wookie to keep warm.

11 posted on 07/02/2014 4:52:16 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: thackney

ya can’t pay for infrastructure when you are giving leaches cradle to grave welfare.
Who needs good roads when you can use the road money to bribe voters?


12 posted on 07/02/2014 4:53:18 AM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) obammy lied and lied and lied)
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To: Joe Boucher

The current exercise is not about money, it is about talking about money.


13 posted on 07/02/2014 4:54:35 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Obama is public enemy #1)
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To: thackney
I will send a donation. I will call it a contribution to keep Northeast liberals home. We surely DON’t need or want anymore down here in the South East.

In the last two days, two letters to the editor about something in Jacksonville have contained the following phraseology like: this was not the way we did it back north.

My comment, if it was so good there, why did you leave?

14 posted on 07/02/2014 4:55:47 AM PDT by Mouton (The insurrection laws perpetuate what we have for a government now.)
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To: thackney
-- and the real reason some areas are far more expensive than others... --

A minor nit to pick. Some of the cost is due to location, geography, etc. Construction and transportation are affected by distance and terrain. But the market size and terrain, even in northern parts of New England, aren't the reason for lack of capacity. Heck, there is plenty of Canada (hydro) power coming in; oil pipelines from the New England coast to inland Canada (so pipeline construction is economically feasible); and enough population and population density to justify new construction - except for the hurdles of regulation and related pre-construction lawsuit.

15 posted on 07/02/2014 4:56:40 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: Mouton

More to the point “get the hell out”


16 posted on 07/02/2014 4:57:21 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Obama is public enemy #1)
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To: McGruff

I’ve got a gasoline generator, but the next time I need to buy one for backup power, it will be a tri-fuel. (gasoline, propane, natural gas)


17 posted on 07/02/2014 4:57:23 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Cboldt
Some of the cost is due to location, geography, etc.

Agreed, but will you agree most of the difference in cost between similar geography are the burdens put in place by the people?

18 posted on 07/02/2014 4:59:55 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: from occupied ga

No sympathy here for them. They regulate, tax and litigate most any attempt to bring new energy to their own back yards, all the while demanding the lowest possible prices possible.

Frankly? Screw them. After all, they won’t freeze in the winter now - all that global warming will heat them right up.


19 posted on 07/02/2014 5:00:37 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: McGruff

Move.


20 posted on 07/02/2014 5:04:03 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: thackney
-- but will you agree most of the difference in cost between similar geography are the burdens put in place by the people? --

Oh, absolutely. The New England market is economically viable, but for the regulation and environmental litigation.

21 posted on 07/02/2014 5:06:18 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: bert

Yeah,
They want to put the gub mint hand further in to MY POCKET.
But hey, if you look at all the services they provide me?
Oh yeah that’s right, I’m not a fag or an illegal or a put upon woman so I don’t get any of the beggers pie, I just foot the bill.


22 posted on 07/02/2014 5:09:53 AM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) obammy lied and lied and lied)
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To: 2banana

If we have a winter like last year, they will freeze in the dark or be burnt to a crisp for trying not to.

Screw them, I just don’t friggin care anymore.


23 posted on 07/02/2014 5:10:57 AM PDT by mazda77
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To: Gaffer
They regulate, tax and litigate most any attempt to bring new energy to their own back yards

And what's worse they ceaslessly work to force expanded government on the rest of us.

No sympathy here for them.

or here. Quinnipeac poll released this morning about who was the worst president since WWII. 0 won, at 33% BUT 8% think he's the BEST president. I'd like to see the geographic breakdown of those who thought he was the best. I'm guessing that the inner city parasites and New Englanders provided the bulk of that 8%.

24 posted on 07/02/2014 5:16:09 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: thackney

Where is your solar panel god now?


25 posted on 07/02/2014 5:16:26 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: thackney
And many of these reasonably priced alternatives emit greenhouse gases and therefore come at an environmental cost, said experts, as New England states seek to reduce carbon emissions.

This is what happens in liberal paradises where people believe that they can live happily ever after in their fantasy world. They will have to learn how to live in the dark. Actions have consequences.

26 posted on 07/02/2014 5:20:27 AM PDT by centurion316
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To: from occupied ga

Frankly, I’m beginning to think that the OJ Jury thing wasn’t just a fluke of jury packing and nullification.

I think this country is infested with rabid ideologues who either are just oppressive meddlers, entitlement leeches (both fiscally and ideologically), America-haters bolstered by a massive increase in third/fourth world immigrants, and politicians who just crave raw unaccountable power. This whole country is the OJ jury it seems.


27 posted on 07/02/2014 5:28:05 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Joe Boucher
ya' can't pay for infrastructure when you are giving leaches cradle to grave welfare. Who needs good roads when you can use the road money to bribe voters?

That has become the American way. Add to that you can't build infrastructure when you're giving that money to terrorists to blow up their countries' infrastructures.

28 posted on 07/02/2014 5:28:29 AM PDT by grania
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To: thackney

The tree-huggers in Maine have managed to kill just about every proposed energy projects that have come forth in the last 50 years. The chickens are now coming home to roost.
Too bad for them but I feel no remorse for them. Drill Baby Drill!!!!


29 posted on 07/02/2014 5:29:07 AM PDT by lgjhn23 (It's easy to be liberal when you're dumber than a box of rocks.)
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To: centurion316

Climate change? A religion where you have to have faith that your sacrifices and those that you impose on your fellow citizens are having an impact on the environment. They sure haven’t been able to link any efforts and the dollars expended to actual results in stopping climate change.

Climate changes. It always has. Why do they not take this into consideration? It’s not logical.


30 posted on 07/02/2014 5:32:33 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: lgjhn23
The tree-huggers in Maine have managed to kill just about every proposed energy projects that have come forth in the last 50 years. The chickens are now coming home to roost.

When we first moved to New England in the early 1980's, the Seabrook, NH nuke plant was coming on-line in spite of the numerous lawsuits, environmental impact regs, tree-hugging protesters scaling the fences to protest, which all conspired to bankrupt the energy company.

Union thugs (one union member, at a $50K salary, had so many drunken job-related instances, he was relegated to the tool room where he could do less harm)tree-huggers and enviro-Nutzies shut down a nuke in Connecticut at about the same time along with another on Long Island.

The chickens have indeed roosted.

31 posted on 07/02/2014 5:42:50 AM PDT by N. Theknow (Kennedys-Can't drive, can't ski, can't fly, can't skipper a boat-But they know what's best for you.)
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To: thackney; Cboldt; apoxonu; 2banana; leprechaun9; Westbrook; McGruff; Born to Conserve; bert; ...

On the map linked below mouse over the colored points and the LMP is the power price per MW. The different colors reflect different prices and also represent “binding constraints” which are bottlenecks on the grid for reasons like power lines down or transformer problems.

Even though this is MISO, which represents MidUS, you can mouse over various colored points in the eastern US from Canada down to Florida.

https://www.misoenergy.org/LMPContourMap/MISO_All.html

I watched the entire eastern US grid at max capacity many times this winter and as recently as last week. I’ve wondered if shutting down so many coal plants in the east is part of the reason. Many utilities chose to shut down coal plants instead of try and meet the new mercury and NOx control EPA mandates. The average customer doesn’t have a clue what is going on behind the light switch and blames the utilities for rising power prices.

Artificially raise the price of energy and you will kill the economy - no way around it.

MISO real time and predicted wind power; https://www.misoenergy.org/MarketsOperations/RealTimeMarketData/Pages/DayAheadWindForecast.aspx

I pinged everyone on this thread because most people don’t know real time information on the grid is on the web.


32 posted on 07/02/2014 5:49:14 AM PDT by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marylin vos Savant)
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To: All

“How the PJM Power Grid in the US Skirted Very Close to Blackouts During January’s Polar Vortexes”

http://theenergycollective.com/jimpierobon/347606/how-pjm-power-grid-us-skirted-very-close-blackouts-during-january-s-polar-vortexe


33 posted on 07/02/2014 5:49:57 AM PDT by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marylin vos Savant)
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To: thackney

Meanwhile, here is the reaction in the Berkshires (massachusetts) to a badly needed natural gas pipeline:

http://www.berkshireeagle.com/circare/html/gsa_template.jsp?sortBy=mngi&similarTo=&similarType=find&type=any&aff=3&view=entiresitesppublished&query=pipeline&searchbutton=Go

Comments in the paper’s online forums in favor of the pipeline are met with dersiion and deleted. It’s sad.


34 posted on 07/02/2014 5:51:44 AM PDT by HalfIrish
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To: Cboldt

People in coal states are getting slammed with Obama regulations. People will pay a lot more, we will have brown and blackouts, massive job loss, and these SOBs want the whole country to pay for their leftist BS caused pwoblems?

They can go to hell.


35 posted on 07/02/2014 5:53:17 AM PDT by dforest
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To: dforest
-- People in coal states are getting slammed with Obama regulations. --

Those reulations hit everybody who is on the grid. Power is a fungible commodity, within the contraints of the distribution network.

Totally agree with your conclusion. The justification for imposing the regulations is hogwash. I wish there was a way to shift all the cost onto those who are advocating and imposing the regulations. Instead, we all suffer on account of their stupidity and malice.

36 posted on 07/02/2014 6:00:06 AM PDT by Cboldt
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To: thackney

Correct, it is the people and government that create the problems of installing new infrastructure. Pipelines can be buried. Granite can be blasted through. However, what is hard to overcome is NIMBY(Not In My Back Yard).
There is still a sign on the road out to Plum Island, Mass. that says “NO EVACUATION”. It was put up in the 1980’s when the Seabrook, NH nuclear power plant was being proposed. Seabrook is about 10 miles away up the Atlantic coast into NH.
Today, the folks in Coos County NH up on the NH/Quebec border do not want the Northern Pass transmission line to “ruin their view”. They might end up burying part of the transmission line to get it passed.
Meanwhile, out in western Mass. we have idiots that do not want a natural gas pipeline BURRIED on their property, even though the gas company pays you to traverse it.
These are always the first idiots to complain when their power goes out in the next ice storm.


37 posted on 07/02/2014 6:26:53 AM PDT by woodbutcher1963
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To: listenhillary

That should be on a bumper sticker.


38 posted on 07/02/2014 6:29:03 AM PDT by wally_bert (There are no winners in a game of losers. I'm Tommy Joyce, welcome to the Oriental Lounge.q)
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To: centurion316

I should market a new popsicle...the “Frozen Yankee”! it’ll basically be a regular popsicle with the stick put in the opposite end of a normal popsicle so you eat it upside-down!


39 posted on 07/02/2014 6:32:38 AM PDT by gr8eman (A good rant should have the word "crap" in it at least 4 times!)
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To: thackney
The six states, at the direction of their governors, have formed the New England Committee on Electricity to come up with solutions. On June 20, the committee proposed that a tariff be imposed to add natural gas pipelines and transmission lines with the goal of increasing power reliability throughout the region.

So they think a tax will keep them warm? It is sad people are that stupid, but since they're yankees I will gleefully make fun of them!

40 posted on 07/02/2014 6:35:12 AM PDT by gr8eman (A good rant should have the word "crap" in it at least 4 times!)
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To: dynoman

Do you have an interactive grid map for New England?
I could not get the one you posted to work for my area.


41 posted on 07/02/2014 6:35:44 AM PDT by woodbutcher1963
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To: leprechaun9

“They should go out and Hug-A-Tree!”

Yes, as New England continues to alienate everyone except the Hard Left and is seeing businesses move away (taking what’s left of Conservative residents with them), they won’t be needing new sources of energy, because those who are left will live “off the grid” and burn Camel dung to heat their huts in the winter.


42 posted on 07/02/2014 6:46:53 AM PDT by vette6387
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To: thackney
No problem.

Obama got $900 Billion in Stimulus money to fix America's transportation network and electric power grid.

The money for this upgrade is probably just delayed by some minor red tape.

Or maybe it wasn't shovel ready when the money was being allocated.


43 posted on 07/02/2014 6:47:19 AM PDT by Iron Munro (The Obamas Black skin has morphed into Teflon thanks to the Obama Media)
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To: thackney

Go diesel.

My 250 gallons I bought in 2007, still runs it fine. You just add a few additives within the first year.


44 posted on 07/02/2014 6:47:34 AM PDT by George from New England (escaped CT in 2006, now living north of Tampa)
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To: HalfIrish

It sounds like they are going to have to route the pipeline along the state highways right of way.

They will still have a hard time getting it passed doing that because it is that evil “fracking” gas that will raise CO2 levels.

It is too bad there is not a way so that these whiners could ONLY get their power from solar and windmills. That way when the wind is not blowing or when it is dark they could just turn their power off.


45 posted on 07/02/2014 6:51:56 AM PDT by woodbutcher1963
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To: McGruff

Get a multi-fuel conversion kit and keep several propane bottles around. Use natural gas first, then propane.


46 posted on 07/02/2014 6:54:41 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: dynoman

Thanks, good link. I have family who have been in the power business for years, so I have heard about the trends, the issues and the problems for a very long time. I have also been in places in the world where electricity cannot be taken for granted thanks to wars, incompetence, inadequate infrastructure etc. The people of this country are in for a rude awakening and they are going to live to regret having given so much power (no pun intended) to people who simply do not understand what is behind that morning ritual of warming up the breakfast sandwich.


47 posted on 07/02/2014 6:56:10 AM PDT by centurion316
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To: gr8eman

I have been warning conservatives for YEARS to get out of Red England before it’s too late...I’m going back home in October, and I’m bringing food.


48 posted on 07/02/2014 6:56:43 AM PDT by who knows what evil? (Yehovah saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: Iron Munro

900 billion in stimulus spending could have built 100 new nuclear reactors if we would have used environmental lawyers for fill in the concrete footings.


49 posted on 07/02/2014 7:02:01 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: woodbutcher1963

I’m guessing you are in PJM.

http://www.pjm.com/markets-and-operations.aspx

The map is called “LPM contour map”

https://edata.pjm.com/eContour/#app=ecca&e929-selectedIndex=2

As of this post electricity is $70-$115 per megawatt in the entire PJM area. Look at the legend for LMP value color code.


50 posted on 07/02/2014 7:05:14 AM PDT by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marylin vos Savant)
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