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NAZIS QUIT KOVEL, POLISH BASTION; AMERICANS GO THROUGH LA HAYE (7/6/44)
Microfilm-New York Times archives, Monterey Public Library | 7/6/44 | E.C. Daniel, Drew Middleton, Harold Denny, Merrill Mueller, James MacDonald, Raymond Daniell, more

Posted on 07/06/2014 4:58:34 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson

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TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: history; milhist; realtime; worldwarii
Free Republic University, Department of History presents World War II Plus 70 Years: Seminar and Discussion Forum
First session: September 1, 2009. Last date to add: September 2, 2015.
Reading assignment: New York Times articles and the occasional radio broadcast delivered daily to students on the 70th anniversary of original publication date. (Previously posted articles can be found by searching on keyword “realtime” Or view Homer’s posting history .)
To add this class to or drop it from your schedule notify Admissions and Records (Attn: Homer_J_Simpson) by freepmail. Those on the Realtime +/- 70 Years ping list are automatically enrolled. Course description, prerequisites and tuition information is available at the bottom of Homer’s profile. Also visit our general discussion thread.
1 posted on 07/06/2014 4:58:34 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Selections from West Point Atlas for the Second World War
Normandy, 1944: Expanding the Beachhead, Operations, 1-24 July 1944
The Marianas Islands: Saipan 1944 – Assault on Saipan, 15 June-10 July 1944
The Western Pacific, New Guinea and the Philippine Islands: Allied Advances to the Marianas, Biak and Noemfoor, 22 April-24 July 1944, and Japanese Kon and “A” Go Operations 30 May-19 June 1944
Eastern Europe, 1941: Operation Bagration – Operations, 22 June-19 August, 1944
Northern Italy 1944: Allied Advance to Gothic Line, 5 June-25 August and Gains 29 August-31 December
China, 1941: Operation Ichigo, April-December 1944 and Situation 31 December
China-Burma, 1941: Third Burma Campaign – Slim’s Offensive, June 1944-March 1945
2 posted on 07/06/2014 4:59:07 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
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The Nimitz Graybook

3 posted on 07/06/2014 5:00:00 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Continued from June 22.

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Winston S. Churchill, Triumph and Tragedy

4 posted on 07/06/2014 5:00:55 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: r9etb; PzLdr; dfwgator; Paisan; From many - one.; rockinqsranch; 2banana; henkster; meandog; ...
Foe ‘Shortens Line’ – 2-3
Eden Prods Poles to Accord with Russia, Recalls Their Commitment to 1941 Treaty (Daniel) – 3
U.S. Awards for Valor – 3
Allied Pace Slows (Middleton) – 4
Normandy Battle is Hedge to Hedge (Denny) – 5
Eisenhower Flies over Nazi Lines (by Merrill Mueller, first-time contributor) – 6
American Fireworks for Germans on Fourth of July (photo) – 6
Canadians Forced to Quit Airfield (MacDonald) – 7
At Cherbourg: The Navy Appraises Damage to the Port (photo) – 7
Churchill to Talk on Robots Today (Daniell) – 8
War News Summarized – 8
Allied Airmen and Leaders Visit Robot Sites (photos) – 9-10
‘Forts’ Blast Rails on Triple Shuttle (by David Anderson) – 11
Washington Welcomes de Gaulle Today Almost as Head of State (by Harold Callender) – 12
Two Death Camps Places of Horror (by Daniel T. Brigham) – 13
Hungary Deports Jews, Eden Says – 13
New York, New Jersey and Connecticut Casualties in Army-Navy List – 14-15
Mines Still a Problem (by Hanson W. Baldwin) – 16
Planks on Negro Worry Democrats (by C.P. Trussell) – 16
The Texts of the Day’s Communiques on the Fighting in Various War Zones – 17-19
Drop Goes the ‘Weasel’ (w/photo) – 19
5 posted on 07/06/2014 5:02:18 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1944/jul44/06jul44.htm#

Soviets capture Kovel
Thursday, July 6, 1944 www.onwar.com

On the Eastern Front... Soviet forces of 1st Belorussian Front capture Kovel, 70 east of Lublin. German forces are retreating. Southwest of Minsk, Svir is captured.

From Berlin... It is announced the Field Marshal Kluge has replaced Field Marshal Rundstedt as Commander in Chief West.

In Italy... Elements of British 8th Army advance. The Polish 3rd Division (part of Polish 2nd Corps) captures Osemo, south of Ancona, on the Adriatic. German forces are conducting a gradual withdrawal, from river line to river line.

In New Guinea... On Numfoor, American forces capture Namber airfield. Allied fighter aircraft are flown in.

In Washington... Free French President de Gaulle arrives for talks on the status of his administration and aid for his forces.

In the United States... The Bretton Woods conference continues.


6 posted on 07/06/2014 5:04:10 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.etherit.co.uk/month/thismonth/05.htm

July 5th, 1944 (WEDNESDAY)
UNITED KINGDOM: The Eighth Air Force in England dispatches 371 bombers and 445 fighters on Mission 453 are dispatched to attack 3 airfields in the Netherlands and 2 in Belgium, a factory near Mol, and 3 V-weapon supply sites in France; five fighters are lost.

1. Of 79 B-17 Flying Fortresses dispatched to the Netherlands, 38 hit Gilze-Rijen Airfield, 20 hit Volkel Airfield and 19 hit Noll.

2. Of 221 B-24 Liberators, 43 hit Bois de Cassan V-weapon site, 36 hit Le Coulet Airfield, 29 hit Foret de L’Isle Adam and 29 hit Mery sur Oise V-weapon sites, 13 hit Eindhoven Airfield, five hit Melsbroek Airfield and two hit Tulemont Airfield.

The two missions above are escorted by 180 P-51 Mustangs that claim 4-0-2 Luftwaffe aircraft in the air and 1-0-0 on the ground; two P-51s are lost.

3. 70 B-17s hit Beziers marshalling yard; 228 P-47 Thunderbolts and P-51s escort the bombers and claim 18-1-9 Luftwaffe aircraft in the air and 1-0-0 on the ground; two P-47s and a P-51 are lost. Of 93 P-47s, 22 bomb Rouen, ten hit L’Arche Bridge, ten hit Seine River locks, seven hit Boissy le Bois, seven hit Pantgouin, seven hit Veulettes Bridge and six hit communication targets; they claim 3-0-0 Luftwaffe aircraft in the air and 1-0-0 on the ground; two P-47s are lost. The P-47s are escorted by 181 P-38s Lightnings; two P-38s are lost .

During the night, 8 of 8 B-17s drop leaflets in France with the loss of 1 B-17; and 8 B-24s fly CARPETBAGGER missions.

70 B-17s on shuttle mission (UK-USSR-Italy-UK) attack a marshalling yard at Beziers, France (with Fifteenth AAir Force B-24s) while on the last leg from Italy to the UK; 42 P-51s return to UK with the B-17s (of the 11 P-51s remaining in Italy, 10 return to the UK the following day and the last several days later).

About 180 Ninth Air Force B-26 Marauders and A-20 Havocs bomb bridges at Caen and also sidings, tracks, and rolling stock; in the afternoon four NOBALL (V-weapon) HQ are hit; 600+ fighters escort the bombers, carry out armed reconnaissance of communication and enemy movements, attack rail lines, rolling stock, marshalling yards, bridges, supply dumps, and cover the beach area.

ENGLISH CHANNEL:

U-390 attacked ships off the Normandy and claimed the sinking of two vessels. The ships hit were HMS Ganilly and SS Sea Porpoise. At 2115, the Sea Porpoise was hit by one torpedo when steaming at 8 knots as the last ship in the starboard column in a convoy with two columns about 10 miles off Utah Beach. The torpedo struck on the starboard side amidships, threw the shaft out of line, damaged the main turbine, cracked some hull plating and injured twelve men. The nine officers, 81 crewmen, 45 armed guards (the ship was armed with one 4in, four 3in and eight 20mm guns) and 24 passengers (US Army personnel) stayed on board. The ship developed a 10° list to starboard, but this was corrected by counter-flooding. After four hours, the ship was taken in tow to the Utah Beach and anchored. On 9 July, she was towed to Spithead in two days and later to Newcastle-upon-Tyne for temporary repairs. On 16 September, the Sea Porpoise left under tow in a slow convoy for Jacksonville, Florida, arriving on 5 October. On 4 May 1945, she returned to service after permanent repairs were completed. U-390 later sunk in position 49.52N, 00.48W, by depth charges from destroyer HMS Wanderer and frigate HMS Tavy. 48 dead and 1 survivor.

At 18.03 hours U-763 fired a spread of three LUT torpedoes at the convoy ETC-26 off Isle of Wight and hit the Ringen (Master Oskar Monsen) with one of them. One British gunner was killed and the ship sank after being abandoned. The Ringen was sunk on her third trip for Operation Neptune. She arrived the first time in the Normandy on 8 June and left five days later and made a second trip between 22 and 27 June.

At 0801, U-953 fired a spread of two LUT torpedoes and at 0805 one Gnat at Convoy ETC-27 in the English Channel off Cap d’Antifer. Marbach observed one ship sinking, heard a detonation after 4 minutes 27 seconds and claimed two ships sunk. However, only the Glendinning was torpedoed and sunk. Two crewmen and two gunners were lost. The master, 20 crewmen, seven gunners and one naval signalman were picked up by HM ML-250 of the 19th ML-Flotilla, later transferred to destroyer HMS Fernie and landed at Sheerness.

FRANCE: La Haye-du-Puits falls to US forces.

HMC Ships Qu’Appelle, Skeena, Saskatchewan and Restigouche, while engaged in Operation DREDGER, attacked a small group of three German armed trawlers escorting two U-boats that were outbound from Brest. One of the trawlers, V-715, was sunk and the other two were damaged. Skeena was hit by German gunfire and fourteen crewmembers were wounded, three of them seriously. Saskatchewan suffered five casualties, one of which subsequently died of his wounds. Qu’Appelle also suffered several non-fatal casualties, all of them among the bridge staff. This action took place at extremely short range. Qu’Appelle’s bridge was raked by 20-mm fire from V-715, wounding the CO and 10 members of the bridge staff. A secondary explosion, possibly caused by the detonation of a depth charge, caused additional damage that disabled Qu’Appelle temporarily, forcing her to transfer tactical command to LCdr. Groos in Restigouche. However, she was also damaged and passed the responsibility to LCdr. Russell in Skeena. She in turn was hit by German gunfire and fourteen crewmembers were wounded, three of them seriously. Saskatchewan also suffered five casualties, one of which subsequently died of his wounds. Disabled by multiple shell hits, V-715 was finally sunk by a torpedo fired by Skeena. EG-12 withdrew to Plymouth to disembark the wounded and to effect repairs. German survivors from V-715 were rescued later that evening by the S-boats S-145 and S-112, which were transiting from St. Malo to Brest. The close range and high volumes of fire during this night engagement resulted in significant disorder. The close range also negated the destroyers’ major advantages of heavier armament and speed. Normally, such odds would have been heavily in favor of EG-12 and the outcome should have been very one-sided. However, the confusion over the size and composition of the German formation and the results of the battle indicate that the Canadian group was unprepared for the challenges of night surface action and that they performed poorly on this occasion.

GERMANY: U-2510 is laid down. U-1106 and U-1279 are commissioned.

FINLAND: Vuosalmi: Soviets capture parts of the Finnish bridgehead after the defending troops on some sectors panic and leave their positions in heavy artillery fire. Even reinforcements fail to improve the Finnish position. Finnish artillery and air attacks, however, force the Soviets to cancel further attacks for some time. This day is the beginning of the end for the Finnish bridgehead.
Bay of Viipuri: After heavy fighting Finns are forced to leave the islands of Teikarinsaari and Melansaari. Another quiet day at Ihantala. Finnish artillery prevents few Soviet attacks at Tähtelä and Ihantala, but the enemy manages to capture a piece of terrain at Pyöräkangas. They are driven back next night by elements of the II/IR 35. Auxiliary gunboats Aunus and Viena are damaged. (Mikko Härmeinen and Dave Shirlaw)

SOUTH AFRICA: Frigate SAS GOOD HOPE launched.

INDIAN OCEAN: One man was killed (Matrosenobergefreiter Hans Boldt) and three wounded, when U-859 was attacked by an RAF 262 Sqn Catalina in the Indian Ocean.

NEW GUINEA: A Japanese counterattack against the US forces on Numfoor fails.

AUSTRALIA: Frigate HMAS Hawkesbury commissioned.

PACIFIC: Aircraft of Task Groups 58.1 and 58.2 continue to attack targets in the Bonin and Volcano Islands. Aircraft of Task Group 58.3 begin preinvasion air assaults on Guam.

CANADA: Repair ship HMS Flamborough Head (later HMCS Cape Breton) laid down Vancouver, British Columbia.

ATLANTIC OCEAN: At 2150, the Noreen Mary was sunk by gunfire by U-247 about 20 miles west of Cape Wrath. This is an amazing event at this time in the war when U-boats were constantly being hunted by Allied aircraft.

U-233 sunk SE of Halifax, in position 42.16N, 59.49W by ramming, depth charges and gunfire from destroyer escorts USS Baker and Thomas. 32 dead and 29 survivors.

U-586 sunk near Toulon in position 43.07N, 05.55E, by a USAAC 233 Sqn B-24.

U-642 sunk near Toulon in position 43.07N, 05.55E, by US bombs.


7 posted on 07/06/2014 5:05:39 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
The B-24's that hit Yap apparently allowed the money supply to remain intact


8 posted on 07/06/2014 5:09:58 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Obama is public enemy #1)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
headline: "Two Death Camps Places of Horror (by Daniel T. Brigham) – 13"

Yes, page 13, but there it is again: war-time reporting on the Holocaust.

9 posted on 07/06/2014 5:20:04 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK
Yes, page 13, . . .

I don't necessarily post stories in the same order they appeared originally. This was not a page one story but it could have accompanied the lead article about the Red Army's progress and appeared on page 5 of the N.Y. Times. Probably not as far back as pg 13.

10 posted on 07/06/2014 5:33:41 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Yesterday’s entry reposted above. Sorry.

July 6th, 1944 (THURSDAY)
UNITED KINGDOM: The Eighth Air Force flies Missions 455, 456 and 457.

Mission 455: In the morning, missions are flown to France and GERMANY:

1. 800 bombers and 224 fighters are dispatched to bomb 18 V-weapon sites in the Pas de Calais area; 556 B-17 Flying Fortresses and 133 B-24s bomb; escort is provided by 141 P-38 Lightnings and 83 P-51 Mustangs; they claim 4-0-0 Luftwaffe aircraft; a P-38 is lost.

2. 229 B-24s bomb the dock area at Kiel, Germany and one hits a target of opportunity; three B-24s are lost; escort is provided by 168 P-51s one of which is lost.

Mission 456: In the late afternoon 73 B-17s and 148 B-24s strike six V-weapon sites and supply installations, three railroad bridges, a highway bridge, and an airfield in northern France. Escort is provided by 443 P-38s, P-47 Thunderbolts and P-51s; one P-47 is lost. Afterwards a squadron of P-47s dive-bombs three airfields in the Conches area.

212 P-38s and P-47s, fly fighter-bomber missions against rail and road traffic in the Paris area and claim 11-1-2 Luftwaffe aircraft; two P-47s are lost).

Mission 457: Seven B-17s drop leaflets in Belgium and France during the night.

During the night, 20 B-24s fly CARPETBAGGER missions and a C-47 makes the first landing at a secret airstrip in the Ain, France area.

Destroyers HMCS Kootenay and Ottawa along with corvette HMS Statice sank U-678 SW of Brighton 50-32N 00-23W. No survivors from her crew of 52. U-678 was a VIIC Type U-Boat, built by Howaldtswerke Hamburg AG, Hamburg, launched 18 Sep 43, commissioned 25 Oct 43, in service 9 months, with no record of sinking any ships.

Frigate HMS Loch Killisport launched.
Submarine HMS Sleuth launched.
Aircraft carrier HMS Theseus launched.
Minesweeper HMS Moon commissioned.

Troopship HMS EMPIRE HALBERD strikes a mine laid by U-218 on 2 July and is damaged.

FRANCE: At 0353 hrs. Minesweeper HMS Magic falls victim to a Neger / Marder human torpedo off Normandy Sword Beach area. She sinks very quickly with 25 casualties, some survivors are taken aboard flotilla mate HMS Cato.

At 0511, Minesweeper HMS Cato falls victim to a Niger / Marder with 26 casualties. (Alex Gordon)(108)

During the morning, about 500 Ninth Air Force B-26 Marauders and A-20 Havocs bomb bridges and rail lines at eight locations; in the afternoon five targets are attacked, including bridges, fuel dumps, railroad tracks, and a V-weapon location; 15+ fighter groups escort bombers, fly armed reconnaissance of rail lines, roads, and marshalling yards, damaging or destroying tracks, trains, a tunnel, a building, and a supply dump; fighters also cover the beach and bomb and strafe troop concentrations and gun positions.

The British 107 Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment arrives in France. The personnel include a young officer, Edward Heath, later to be British prime minister.

GERMANY: Field Marshal Günther Hans von Kluge replaces Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt for the Germans as C-in-C West. He and Rommel told Hitler that the military situation in the west was disastrous. This encounter was followed by a testy telephone conversation between von Rundstedt and Field Marshal Keitel, the chief of the OKW [Armed Forces High Command], who was told an allout attack by four SS Panzer Divisions on the British had collapsed. “What shall we do now?” Keitel asked. “Make peace, you fools,” von Rundstedt snapped.

U-3502 is launched.

AUSTRIA: 42 Liberator bombers of the RAF”>RAF’s No. 205 Group attack Feuresbrunn Airfield with the loss of 13 aircraft. During the night, two Liberators attack targets of opportunity.

ITALY: The Polish 3rd Division liberates Osemo, Italy.
The USAAF’s Fifteenth Air Force dispatches 530+ B-17s and B-24s to attack the following targets:
- 125 bomb the oil storage facilities at Porto Marghera.
- 114 bomb the oil refinery at Trieste.
- 78 attack Aviano; 45 hit oil storage facilities and 33 bomb the airfield.
- 55 bomb the railroad bridge at Latisana
- 53 bomb the marshalling yard at Verona.
- 53 bomb the steel works at Bergamo.
- 52 bomb the railroad bridge at Carsarsa.
- 49 bomb the railroad viaduct at Aviso.
- 1 bombs the airfield at Vincenza.

NORWAY: U-737 lands on Bear Island to check on an automatic weather station located there.

FINLAND: Ihantala: Soviet artillery begins a massive barrage on the Finnish positions in morning. Despite this the infantry and tank attack formations are successfully destroyed by Finnish counter-barrage. The Soviet attack commences at 6 pm. It’s main aim is again Pyöräkangas, where the defending I/IR 35 is forced back. Col. Y. Hanste alerted his reserves, and orders I/IR 12 to attack from west, Separate Battalion 16 from east and I/IR 35 from north. Artillery battle goes on for the whole day, until the Soviets are able to mount another attack in evening. They break successfully through Finnish positions and are able to capture some ground around the strategically important Pyöräkangas, but are pushed out by counterattacks by midnight. The Finnish counter-attack, supported by more than 13 artillery battalions, starts at midnight, and the lost positions at Pyöräkangas are recaptured by 3 am. on 7 July.

Melansaari Island, north of Teikari, is evacuated.

U.S.S.R.: The First Byelorussian Front captures Kovel which is 70 miles east of Lublin.

NEW GUINEA: Namber airstrip on Noemfoor, Schouten Islands is captured by US Army troops of the 158th Infantry Regiment, who make an amphibious landing and is almost immediately readied for operations.

MARIANAS ISLANDS, SAIPAN: The US forces on Saipan continue to advance towards the north end of the island. The senior Japanese commanders, Admiral Chichi Nagumo and General Yoshitsugu Saito both commit suicide while their remaining troops plan a final attack.
US Navy carrier based aircraft of Task Groups 58.1 and 58.2 continue attacks on Iwo Jima and Chichi Jima. Surface ships begin a daylong bombardment after which all ships withdraw to the Mariana Islands.

U.S.A.: Washington: Roosevelt meets de Gaulle to discuss further aid to the Free French.

While riding on a bus from Camp Hood, Killeen, Texas, Lieutenant Jackie Robinson of the U.S. Army, refuses to give up his seat to a white man. He is court martialled for refusing the order of a civilian bus driver to move to the back of the bus and is acquitted.

In Hartford, Connecticut, 169 people, including many children, are killed when a fire breaks out in the main tent of the Ringling Bros. and Barnum and Bailey Circus.

Pearl Harbor, Territory of Hawaii: While passing through en route to Saipan Island, Mariana Islands, the advanced echelon of XXI Bomber Command is canvassed by Nimitz’s staff trying to sell them the idea of a very heavy bomber (VHB) mining campaign against Japan’s home waters, with the command furnishing the B-29s and crews, CINCPOA the mines and technicians. (Hal Turrel)

Submarine USS HALFBEAK is laid down. Escort carrier USS Roi commissioned.

CANADA: Minesweeper HMCS Oshawa commissioned.
Frigate HMCS Lanark commissioned.
Frigates HMCS Penetang (ex Rouyn) and Carlplace launched Lauzon, Province or Quebec.

CARIBBEAN: An armed U.S. merchant tanker, en route from Cartagena, Colombia, to New York City, is torpedoed and sunk by German submarine U-516 about 152 nm (282 km) northwest of the Dutch island of Aruba; eight of the 72-man crew and Armed Guard perish.


11 posted on 07/06/2014 5:40:22 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Lage West for 7th Army:

6 JUL44 7a photo 6JUL447a_zpsaaf3d7dd.jpg

12 posted on 07/06/2014 7:34:56 AM PDT by henkster (Do I really need a sarc tag?)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
British/Panzer Group West sector:

6 JUL44 5pz photo 6JUL445pz_zps1aa90545.jpg

13 posted on 07/06/2014 7:36:42 AM PDT by henkster (Do I really need a sarc tag?)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Today's German Order of Battle, as attached to the Lage West map:

6 JUL 44 OOB photo 6JUL44OOB_zps1239b6bd.jpg

14 posted on 07/06/2014 7:37:53 AM PDT by henkster (Do I really need a sarc tag?)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson; BroJoeK

Rather earlier and more detailed public Holocaust information than is usually mentioned in history books.


15 posted on 07/06/2014 1:41:13 PM PDT by UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide (HELL, NO! BE UNGOVERNABLE! --- ISLAM DELENDA EST)
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To: henkster; Homer_J_Simpson

For nearly a year now I read the daily German war communique saying Wehrmacht forces spent the past 24 hours heroically fighting off ferocious assaults, yet the map lines continually move towards Germany?


16 posted on 07/06/2014 3:52:51 PM PDT by fso301
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To: fso301
For nearly a year now I read the daily German war communique saying Wehrmacht forces spent the past 24 hours heroically fighting off ferocious assaults, yet the map lines continually move towards Germany?

Before "Baghdad Bob" there was "Berlin Bob."

17 posted on 07/06/2014 3:55:30 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: bert

LOL!


18 posted on 07/06/2014 4:05:46 PM PDT by fso301
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To: Homer_J_Simpson; BroJoeK
This was not a page one story but it could have accompanied the lead article about the Red Army's progress and appeared on page 5 of the N.Y. Times. Probably not as far back as pg 13.

Farther back appears to have been standard for NYT coverage of the Holocaust.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2PQCNQH2lY

19 posted on 07/06/2014 4:10:26 PM PDT by fso301
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To: UnbelievingScumOnTheOtherSide; BroJoeK; Homer_J_Simpson
Rather earlier and more detailed public Holocaust information than is usually mentioned in history books.

Homer has provided us with many such reports so, there will be no surprises when allies begin overrunning the camps right?

BTW, Check out post #19, I hope the girl got an "A".

20 posted on 07/06/2014 4:14:40 PM PDT by fso301
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To: fso301

I checked back to see if I caught either of the articles she mentioned by date - July 2, 1942 and March 2, 1944. Negative on both.


21 posted on 07/06/2014 4:33:18 PM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: fso301

Excellent link!
Great find. I’ve never seen it expressed so clearly before.
Thanks.


22 posted on 07/06/2014 4:40:42 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: fso301; colorado tanker

The average German must know things are not going well. Look at the German communique that admits that large forces of Army Group Center have been cut off and surrounded in Belorussia. Every German knows somebody who knows somebody in that pocket, just like Stalingrad.

But at least the Germans are giving somewhat accurate information to their people. If you were Japanese, by now you must believe the IJN has sunk about 50 American aircraft carriers and shot down several thousand planes. They may not be publishing maps any more.

The important thing is that the military and for the most part the civilian leadership of both countries already know the war is irretrievably lost. The defeat at the Philippine Sea and destruction of Japanese naval aviation will lead to the fall of Tojo’s government. But they won’t quit. In a few weeks, after the success of Operation Cobra and the disasters on the Eastern Front, Rundstedt will give Hitler the the advice “Make peace, you fools!” And he’ll be sacked for it.


23 posted on 07/06/2014 5:14:56 PM PDT by henkster (Do I really need a sarc tag?)
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To: fso301; Homer_J_Simpson; henkster
There is an admittedly imperfect comparison here which nevertheless bears noting.
The fact is that ordinary, every day anti-Semitism was pretty strong in America in the 1940s.
Many Americans did not want to be told they were being drafted into war, shipped across the ocean and thrown into a life-or-death struggle, to save the Jews.

The comparison is 1861 — at the war’s beginning, Union soldiers weren't told, and certainly didn't want to hear that they were being sent to fight & die to free the slaves.
In the Civil War that came later, step by step.
In WWII, it never really came.

24 posted on 07/06/2014 5:20:44 PM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK

mmm...

So which is it? Everyone knew Jews were being mass-murdered, or no one knew Jews were being mass-murdered?

Talk about revisionist history!


25 posted on 07/06/2014 5:23:25 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: BroJoeK; fso301; Homer_J_Simpson

That’s true. I doubt too many Americans would send their sons to fight for the Jews. While not as segregated as the blacks, I believe there were a number of hotels and restaurants that would not serve Jews, if they were known as such.

On the other hand, not so many Americans would have fought for the Armenians in World War 1, or the Ukrainians in the Holodomor, or for the Chinese, or the Ethiopians, or Sudanese Christians today....


26 posted on 07/06/2014 5:51:34 PM PDT by henkster (Do I really need a sarc tag?)
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To: BroJoeK

Can you imagine the outrage if this happened today?

And did you check out the republicans wanting to abolish the poll tax by constitutional amendment?

Times change....


27 posted on 07/06/2014 6:23:06 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson; Clive; exg; Alberta's Child; albertabound; AntiKev; backhoe; Byron_the_Aussie; ...
To all- please ping me to Canadian topics.

Canada Ping!

28 posted on 07/06/2014 6:56:19 PM PDT by Squawk 8888 (Lacrosse- Canada's national sport, like hockey only violent)
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To: henkster; BroJoeK; fso301; Homer_J_Simpson
There was a post-War movie made about American antisemitism:

It was controversial in its day. The plot is a gentile writer agrees to go "under cover," pretending to be Jewish to see first hand the subtle and not so subtle discrimination he would experience.

Darryl Zanuck got the idea of making a film based on the novel when he was denied membership in the Los Angeles Country Club because people wrongly thought he was Jewish.

29 posted on 07/07/2014 4:00:07 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: fso301

Thanks for the link. That’s a powerful presentation.


30 posted on 07/07/2014 5:11:43 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: jjotto; henkster; Homer_J_Simpson; fso301
jjotto: "So which is it?
Everyone knew Jews were being mass-murdered, or no one knew Jews were being mass-murdered?
Talk about revisionist history!"

My understanding is that most people after the war claimed they'd never heard of the Holocaust during the war.
Indeed, this is a key element in Holocaust deniers' conspiracy theories -- they claim the Holocaust was invented after the war by those dastardly CommunistJews, and it never really happened.

But these articles in the New York Times prove that at least some Americans were fully aware of the Holocaust during the war.
So the question has long been: why didn't more people know about it?
The link (post #19) provided us by fso301 supplies a key element -- Arthur "Punch" Sultzberger.

31 posted on 07/08/2014 9:09:56 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: Vermont Lt; colorado tanker; henkster
Vermont Lt: "Can you imagine the outrage if this happened today?"

The Holocaust is unique in history for it's state-organized, systematic, industrialized mass murder.

But there have been a large number of mass-murderers since WWII, including Mao Tse Tung in China, Pol Pot in Cambodia, Saddam Hussein in Iraq, and any number in Africa, none of which have excited much attention in the US, at the time.
For example, Saddam's mass murders only became a real issue here when the Bushes needed them to help justify their own military adventures.

Point is, so far as I can remember, mass murders of alien populations were never, by themselves, a casus belli for Americans.

32 posted on 07/08/2014 9:22:42 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK
So the question has long been: why didn't more people know about it?

Drowned out as background noise by the events of a titanic global conflict. People "knew," but given everything else, it wasn't "real" until GIs walked through Buchenwald.

The Gulag was never "real." GIs never walked through the camps at Magadan.

33 posted on 07/08/2014 12:39:19 PM PDT by henkster (Do I really need a sarc tag?)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Builds 100 Army hospital cars


Interesting info here:

http://railwaysurgery.org/Army.htm

http://www.med-dept.com/articles/ww2-hospital-trains/


34 posted on 07/08/2014 12:51:24 PM PDT by PeterPrinciple (Where is your thinking cap? The one you were issued in elementary school.)
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To: BroJoeK

And there was the Rabbis’ March on Washington in October 1943:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKQNHNdOmow

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/march.html


35 posted on 07/08/2014 5:27:57 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: PeterPrinciple; Homer_J_Simpson; henkster; colorado tanker

Thanks for the links on military hospital trains.
Many years after the war, one of my Dad’s units included such trains...


36 posted on 07/09/2014 6:11:40 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: jjotto; henkster; Homer_J_Simpson
Thanks for the links on the 400 rabbis’ march on Washington in 1943.
It reminds us of something important to our politics, even today.

In those days the Democrat party was a coalition between Southerners and northern immigrant populations — groups which didn't always agree with each other, and which wily politicians like FDR, would try to reconcile by, in this example, slipping out the White House's back door to avoid embarrassment.

Then as now, many non-religious Jews (i.e. “Punch” Sultzberger) were loyal Democrats first, and Jews second (or third, if at all) in their political orientations.
Today, many observant Jews (Mark Levin to cite one) are similar to practicing Christians in their politics — conservative, Republican, pro-Isreal.
And today's versions of old Sultzberger, like lemmings, blindly follow Democrat party lines, even to the detriment of Israel.

37 posted on 07/09/2014 6:44:07 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK

Ol’ Punch felt so Jewish, he married and raised his children Episcopalian.


38 posted on 07/09/2014 3:26:37 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Late addition:

 photo 0706-foeshortens23_zpse204f0a0.jpg

39 posted on 07/10/2014 3:39:01 PM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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