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The real reason gun control is failing
The Guardian ^ | July 8, 2014 | Ana Marie Cox

Posted on 07/09/2014 12:00:51 AM PDT by Innovative

Full title: The real reason gun control is failing. Americans are still OK with guns, and until we can change that, Michael Bloomberg's millions won't mean a thing

But there is no such thing as a neutral position on guns, because there is no such thing as a neutral gun. Guns have one purpose: to kill things. They are no more neutral than a poison.

Guns are not objects, and I doubt we can change the way our country deals with them by thinking of guns as merely potentially dangerous things that need to be regulated, no different than unstable chemicals or cold medicines. Guns are death waiting to happen, and Everytown's survey is a quaint eulogy for those who have already passed.

(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: banglist; bloomberg; guncontrol; secondamendment
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It's all the fault of the guns, NOT the criminals, right!

1 posted on 07/09/2014 12:00:52 AM PDT by Innovative
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To: Innovative
The Guardian makes the New York Times, Washington Post and Miami Herald look like the JBS's New American.
2 posted on 07/09/2014 12:06:36 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: Innovative

author is batcrap crazy. no surprise.


3 posted on 07/09/2014 12:08:22 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man ( Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

I don’t know how they can seriously make such statements, that it’s all the fault of the guns and guns are evil.

I bet if some criminal would attack these anti-gun people, they would wish they had a gun...


4 posted on 07/09/2014 12:13:03 AM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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>> and until we can change that

You, Ana Marie Cox, and your Nazi cohorts can go pound sand.


5 posted on 07/09/2014 12:13:33 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I am convinced that the Guardian is produced by the work therapy program of London’s Bethlehem Hospital for the mentally ga-ga.


6 posted on 07/09/2014 12:17:19 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (The IRS: either criminally irresponsible in backup procedures or criminally responsible of coverup.)
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To: Innovative
Guns have one purpose: to kill things.

Exactly. That's why the government shouldn't be the only one armed.

7 posted on 07/09/2014 12:19:19 AM PDT by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheelbarrow)
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To: Innovative

Guns are just fine. Most people killed with guns had it coming, in their own special way.


8 posted on 07/09/2014 12:35:34 AM PDT by Lockbar (What would Vlad The Impaler do?)
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To: Innovative
But there is no such thing as a neutral position on guns, because there is no such thing as a neutral gun. Guns have one purpose: to kill things. They are no more neutral than a poison.

Absolutely false and misleading statements,

Many poisons have medicinal purposes. Coumadin was originally purposed as a rat poison and now it saves lives every day as a blood thinner and clot buster. Nearly any drug could be used as a poison so this woman’s statement is at the very least misleading.

Firearms are more often used to defend or save lives in the United States than they are to take them in anger. This woman should explore her own biases and presumptions before she writes on personal firearms again.

9 posted on 07/09/2014 12:36:17 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Pontiac

I always thought you shoot to kill or don’t shoot at all.


10 posted on 07/09/2014 12:53:33 AM PDT by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheelbarrow)
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To: Irenic
Not sure what you mean.

But you don’t have to fire a defensive weapon to use it to save your life or someone else’s. More often than not an attacker will be persuaded to leave at the sight of a firearm.

11 posted on 07/09/2014 1:05:02 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: Innovative
I couldn't find a comment button, and I'm not going to register just so I can tell her that if she hates my guns so much, quit flapping her guns and come take them. Quit beating around the bush, openly come out for gun confiscation, then lead the march. I'm done trying to reason with the bozos....the battle lines are drawn.

Scouts Out! Cavalry Ho!

12 posted on 07/09/2014 1:29:55 AM PDT by wku man (Veterans, it's up to us to save the Republic...let's roll.)
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To: KarlInOhio

This is the same UK rag whose moonbat editors tried to “arrest” Dick Cheney for Iraq, I kid you not. They’re more lefty than the LA Slimes and NYT combined.


13 posted on 07/09/2014 1:32:12 AM PDT by max americana (fired liberals in our company last election, and I laughed while they cried (true story))
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To: Innovative

None of my guns are neutral. They are all positive with a strong desire to protect me and those around me. They all have names and personalities. I take them to the gun park where they can play with all the other guns. My guns are part of the family. Each has a job and an independent spirit. One of my guns is even considering a run for mayor.


14 posted on 07/09/2014 1:47:31 AM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (Stop wishing for a perfect world. You may get it. Who will you talk to then?)
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To: Pontiac
More often than not an attacker will be persuaded to leave at the sight of a firearm.

Yep, and the person being robbed at gunpoint probably has better odds than one being robbed by bat or a knife.

Somebody that pulls a gun is less likely to use the gun than a person who uses a knife or a bat in a robbery/crime.(more to prove and exibit)

What I mean is that if I am the victim of a situation, I will not pull a gun to just show it. If it is so dire that I need to show it, I will need to use it.

If the person turns and runs, good on them. Other than this--if a gun is pulled by me, it is to kill. Period.

15 posted on 07/09/2014 1:53:54 AM PDT by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheelbarrow)
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To: Innovative
Although the philosophical foundation for acknowledging the right to keep and bear arms is liberty from government tyranny, the public thinks of the matter in terms of personal protection. That is a perspective that The Guardian fails to understand.

There are two very important motivations associated with the personal protection arguments in favor of acknowledging the right to keep and bear arms: First, the more the government confiscates guns the more it makes honest citizens vulnerable to gun toting criminals. Leftists tell soccer moms that they want to make them and their children safer by restricting gun rights on the margins. But rational analysis of this approach, meaning analysis made mostly by men, prompts the conclusion that every restriction only enhances the danger as it leaves the innocent more vulnerable.

In order to have a relatively safe society made that way by the absence of guns it is necessary to impose a draconian ban on virtually all privately held guns such as exists here in Germany. Until the point of nearly total confiscation is reached, the law of unintended consequences makes matters worse. And once the tipping point of total confiscation is reached, real questions of liberty of the individual vis – a – vie the government become more real.

Second, Nathan Bedford's First Maxim of American Politics should be considered: All politics in America is not local but ultimately racial. As we experience weekend after weekend of gun violence in places like Chicago and people become aware that this violence is statistically an African-American activity, whites naturally ask, how can I protect myself and my family from this anarchy? Whites are feeling increasingly disenfranchised, increasingly estranged from their government, they are increasingly losing confidence in the ability of the government to behave reasonably much less efficiently or effectively, so they increasingly think of self-help.

This motivation is clearly already in evidence in the African-American ghettos where it is common knowledge in places like the South side of Chicago that the authorities will not strictly punish gun possession forcing the conclusion that to go unarmed in certain areas is to go naked. It is not surprising that white suburbanites are coming to the same conclusion.

So as the electorate looks at the relative ability of the government to save them from mindless gun violence as opposed to their own ability to protect themselves by going armed, rational voters come to rational conclusions.

Americans across the board draw precisely the opposite conclusions from those drawn by The Guardian after a bloody weekend in Chicago. It will be interesting to see the progression of feelings about gun ownership in Great Britain as demographics there continue to change, pushing whites into minority status and granting minorities, almost by default, the exclusive power associated with (illegal) gun possession. The trend is today in relatively early stages but it is likely to accelerate.


16 posted on 07/09/2014 1:58:29 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: Innovative

We all know the real reason is plenty of Dems have guns and have no intention on giving up any of them. 10 years ago most Democrats stopped being anti-gun because it lost them votes!!! Simple as this!!


17 posted on 07/09/2014 1:58:47 AM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: Innovative

“Guns are not objects,...” - but the left believes people are objects and we should be able to kill them and the government should force all religious to at least fund the killings. This is exactly why they desire to disarm us - to kill us at the will of the state.

“Guns are death waiting to happen...” - and they fantasize about death happening. They just don’t want it happening to them. They somehow feel above that death, like they’re exempt...like the state loves their ideals too much to kill them. They’re deluded.

“What we need are fewer “bad guys” with guns. You make that argument, and of course you get support for the legislation that would seem to address that specific issue – background checks, bans on gun possession by the certifiably mentally ill.” - and here it is, again, they love the idea that so many Americans are on mental health medications. This will soon be classified as the “certification” they desire to disarm so many Americans. It is not by chance, that young boys have been the main focus of these meds...not by chance at all.


18 posted on 07/09/2014 2:08:55 AM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
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To: Innovative

Jack the Ripper never owned a gun...


19 posted on 07/09/2014 2:34:25 AM PDT by aardwolf46
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To: Irenic

If gun control was working, then why isn’t Chicago one of the safest cities in America?


20 posted on 07/09/2014 2:34:25 AM PDT by DaBeerfreak (As long as the politicians believe they're not the problem; we have a big problem.)
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To: DaBeerfreak

Because the law abiding are unarmed.


21 posted on 07/09/2014 2:38:08 AM PDT by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheelbarrow)
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To: nathanbedford

It’s not all racial. I won’t live by that or believe that and no, I don’t intend to play the fool.


22 posted on 07/09/2014 2:45:41 AM PDT by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheelbarrow)
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To: Irenic
You might be absolutely right, race might play absolutely no role in fixing cultural attitudes. Equally, you are absolutely justified in your position that you will neither live that way nor believe that way.

I merely point out that what you and I believe, or disbelieve, does not create or destroy reality no matter how noble our convictions might be.


23 posted on 07/09/2014 2:51:44 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: aardwolf46
Jack the Ripper never owned a gun...

Isn't that true of many mass murderers? Of the ones I've read about, it seems they like using knives or their hands.

Banning an object because someone might use it to kill another person makes no sense. The problem is the murderer, not the weapon.

24 posted on 07/09/2014 2:58:43 AM PDT by exDemMom (Current visual of the hole the US continues to dig itself into: http://www.usdebtclock.org/)
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To: nathanbedford
Just as The Pied Piper would try to hold us hostage with his children he would love to disarm us and hold us hostage with the threat of racial violence. Armed, we can deal with racial violence and the threat of anarchy swiftly. Unarmed we are at the gummint's mercy.

μολὼν λαβέ


25 posted on 07/09/2014 3:00:32 AM PDT by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: nathanbedford

Race plays different in different places.

Illegal looking Mexicans make me wet my pants no matter where they are. (not speaking English, clothes and a odd way of acting towards female cardboard cutouts in a store)

Mostly, I’ve never ever had a problem with black folk. Ever. Black folk are the same as me, Americans with some chitheads sprinkled in, just like white folk.

Of course I’ve never lived in the city and sure the heck never want to. Black people are certainly my brethren and friend before all the freakin’ illegals!

Black people and white people will soon wake up and realize their common interests. City folk—they will probably never realize a thing.

But yes, I have fear of some black men and just about any male who dresses a particular way and doesn’t speak English.(victim of crime causes my feelings)


26 posted on 07/09/2014 3:08:39 AM PDT by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheelbarrow)
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To: Innovative
Guns are not objects

My guns have their own personality and will often go out and shoot liberals {with no help from me or any one else}.

The author is correct, guns can be good people.

27 posted on 07/09/2014 3:46:51 AM PDT by USS Alaska (Exterminate the terrorist savages, everywhere.)
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To: Innovative
The real reason gun control is failing: People disagree with it.

Well, hell. That's just not right!

28 posted on 07/09/2014 3:51:13 AM PDT by servo1969
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To: Irenic

Outside of just practice on the range, that is my stand.


29 posted on 07/09/2014 3:56:06 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Innovative
Guns are not objects

This article is beyond stupid and goes deep into the psychotic. The lunatic who wrote it obviously has suffered a significant break from reality. I suggest she double her medication (Chlorpromazine Fluphenazine Haloperidol ...) immediately. They're obviously NOT working at her current dose level.

30 posted on 07/09/2014 3:58:27 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Innovative
"Guns are not objects"

They're alive!
They're filled with evil and hey're just waiting for a chance to kill someone.
Late at night when it's quiet you can hear their thoughts-
"Come on... Pick me up... You know you want to... Use me... Do it... Use me to kill someone... Shoot... Come on... Do it... You know you want to..."

Gun control is practically a religion for some. They believe guns are evil, truly evil with intent and purpose. You can not reason with such people. You can only defeat them.

31 posted on 07/09/2014 4:04:22 AM PDT by servo1969
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To: Innovative

That’s the thing. No, no they wouldn’t. I’ve seen it. Even as they lay in the hospital they would be mad at the gun, the company who made the gun, the company who made the bullets, etc. The person actually responsible would be way down the list. They are totally alien from gun people.


32 posted on 07/09/2014 4:09:20 AM PDT by servo1969
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To: Innovative

Meth is illegal so no one uses meth. Crack is illegal so no one uses crack.

Wouldn’t banning guns work as well as banning drugs?

< /sarc>


33 posted on 07/09/2014 4:12:21 AM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Straight Vermonter
Wouldn’t banning guns work as well as banning drugs?

This is LOGIC. Those who hate guns "Guns are not objects" have left logic far behind and gone into a delusional world of non-causality where their own inner fantasies become reality. This is sometimes referred to as neurosis where it doesn't severely affect their day to day functioning, and psychosis when it does.

34 posted on 07/09/2014 4:22:33 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Innovative

,,,,, I don’t hunt anything , I target shoot for sport and amusement ,, and the only thing I kill is TARGETS so here’s a tip ,,,, “ don’t be a target “.


35 posted on 07/09/2014 4:22:55 AM PDT by Lionheartusa1 (-: 0bamanomics is the equal distribution of misery :-)
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To: Innovative

It’s all the fault of the guns, NOT the criminals, right!
Please keep your comments printable, so they won’t get deleted...

If I type something that is deleted...IT is not my fault. I merely type on the Keyboard.


36 posted on 07/09/2014 4:33:46 AM PDT by IC Ken
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To: Innovative

-——Guns are death waiting to happen——

Which is the precise reason for having guns. When attacked, the attacker can be killed, the threat removed, the attack ended.

The lesson was plainly learned and illustrated to all the evening the young black thug Trayvon was killed during the attempt to murder Mr Zimmerman.


37 posted on 07/09/2014 4:37:54 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Obama is public enemy #1)
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To: servo1969
You can not reason with such people. You can only defeat them

I post this or some variation thereof at least once a month.

Anti gunners cannot be reasoned with (their position isn't based on logic, but a blind worship of government). They cannot be bargained with (they have nothing to offer - they simply want to take what is ours). They feel neither pity nor remorse nor guilt for taking something from us, but rather they feel a self satisfaction for sticking it to a group they loath and fear - those of us who believe in individual freedom over the power of the state. And above all they're relentless. They never stop, they're never satisfied. Every piece of anti-gun legislation is "a good first step." They won't quit until

  1. Every single firearm in the country is in either the hands of their beloved police or the military
  2. Their final solution to the gun owner problem is implemented and all holdouts are killed by their beloved hero JBTs "resisting arrest." or
  3. Enough of them and their gooons are killed to push this off to the next generation
You've no doubt noticed that even the most virulent anti-gunner never calls for disarming the police. It isn't guns they hate, but the thought of people being able to use force to resist the actions of the state. Don't think for a minute that there aren't plenty of government employees (armed and otherwise who don't yearn for a final solution to the gun owner problem. This is what they want for us.


38 posted on 07/09/2014 4:38:07 AM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Innovative
Rod Stewart - I Was Only Joking
39 posted on 07/09/2014 4:40:27 AM PDT by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheelbarrow)
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To: DaBeerfreak
If gun control was working, then why isn’t Chicago one of the safest cities in America?

Because in liberal eyes, effective gun control means total nationwide confiscation, and until that is achieved, criminals and other bad people will always have access to firearms.

40 posted on 07/09/2014 4:51:38 AM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: Irenic

That’s the most idiotic (not to mention naive) post I’ve ever read on FR....
Congrats!


41 posted on 07/09/2014 5:09:12 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Bible Summary in a few verses: John 14:6, John 6:29, Romans 10:9-10)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal
“.... there is no such thing as a neutral gun. Guns have one purpose: to kill things.”...

Guess the writer never heard of the “triathlon”, target shooting, etc. Do you're home work before you write such an article.

42 posted on 07/09/2014 5:13:18 AM PDT by DaveA37
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To: Innovative

If a gun is not an object, then if set on a table and left to it’s own devices, the gun should leap up unassisted to perpetrate evil, right?


43 posted on 07/09/2014 5:13:51 AM PDT by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: Irenic

Shoot to stop. That may be achieved by killing, but the goal is to stop an attack. When the threat ceases, you cease shooting.

The problem with “shoot to kill” is that becomes your goal ... and if the attack stops and the threat ends but the assailant is still alive, your preset auto-pilot goal will be to continue until he’s dead - and that’s murder.


44 posted on 07/09/2014 5:23:36 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ("If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun" - Obama, setting RoE with his opposition)
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To: ctdonath2

Wounding allows retribution


45 posted on 07/09/2014 5:24:40 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Obama is public enemy #1)
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To: Innovative

Gun control fails because Americans know if they lose their guns, they will be digging their own mass graves with government lackeys waiting to pull the trigger behind them.


46 posted on 07/09/2014 5:26:14 AM PDT by Old Yeller (Anything is possible, if you don't know what you're talking about.)
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To: DaveA37

Or clay pigeon shooting, or stress relief, just plain fun.

Author is a moron....


47 posted on 07/09/2014 5:27:57 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Bible Summary in a few verses: John 14:6, John 6:29, Romans 10:9-10)
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To: Innovative

A weapon is the primary tool needed to guarantee liberty and preserve the Republic; without a weapon you are required do whatever the dictator says.


48 posted on 07/09/2014 5:32:21 AM PDT by BuffaloJack (Unarmed people cannot defend themselves. America is no longer a Free Country.)
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To: Innovative
If this were true, there would only one more hunting season anywhere in the United States, because everywhere the hunters congregated would be turned into a bullet pocked, burned over wasteland, utterly devastated by previously innocent men and women, who'd been driven mad by the eeevil guns they carried. Indeed, the areas around gun stores and shooting ranges would have been long ago depopulated due to the mass shootings caused by those same guns.
49 posted on 07/09/2014 5:47:03 AM PDT by libstripper
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To: Innovative
It’s failing because 99% of the 120 Million gun owners in the country are innocent law abiding folks who only want to be able to have their Commonsense Civil Right of Armed Self-Defense.

It’s failing because while the hoplophobes pretend to be real upset over guns, they don’t care about Criminal and Government guns.

It’s failing because the gun gabber’s propaganda is based on lies and falsehoods and as such we don’t trust them when they say we don’t want to Confiscate guns.

Meh, I could do this all day….

It’s failing because it should be plainly obvious that the precursor to Confiscation – registration won’t do jack sh… to supposedly solve the ‘gun violence’ problem.

It’s failing because innocent gun owners see through gun grabber frauds like the “Assault Weapon” Scam and the “High capacity” magazine swindle.

In short, It’s failing because WE DON’T TRUST people who are PROVEN LIARS. when they say 'we don't want to take your means of self-defense away

[I’m looking right at you Obama]
I will not take your shotgun away, I will not take your rifle away, I won't take your handgun away.”</em>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9LshCv0SAXE

36 Times Obama Said You Could Keep Your Health Care Plan</strong>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qpa-5JdCnmo

50 posted on 07/09/2014 5:57:42 AM PDT by HammerT (The Right to keep and bear arms: A Commonsense Civil Right)
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