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Germany’s Choice: Will It Be America or Russia?
Der Spiegel ^ | July 10, 2014 – 05:48 PM | Markus Feldenkirchen, Christiane Hoffmann and René Pfister

Posted on 07/11/2014 6:04:08 PM PDT by Olog-hai

For decades, Germany’s position in the West remained unquestioned. Following the NSA spying and other political scandals, many Germans want greater independence from the US. But does that mean getting closer to Moscow? […]

On the one hand, Germans are disappointed by the Americans and their unceasing surveillance activities. At the same time, they have demonstrated a surprising level of sympathy for the Russians and their president, Vladimir Putin, in the Ukraine crisis. This raises the fundamental question of Germany’s national identity. In the long run, Germans will have to decide which side they prefer. …

(Excerpt) Read more at spiegel.de ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Germany; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: eussr; merkel; obama; putin

1 posted on 07/11/2014 6:04:08 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Once all the Germans were warlike and mean,
But that couldn’t happen again.
We taught them a lesson in nineteen eighteen,
And they’ve hardly bothered us since then.

— Tom Lehrer


2 posted on 07/11/2014 6:20:29 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy ("Harvey Dent, can we trust him?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBsdV--kLoQ)
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To: Olog-hai

Maybe the Russians will see opportunity in an accord with Germany that can be turned against Germany this time to Russian advantage.


3 posted on 07/11/2014 6:20:45 PM PDT by givemELL
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To: Olog-hai; All
This is an interesting article in that it seems well timed. I noted in another thread that Merkel worked for the communists as a propagandist, and was noted early on as having suspicious sympathies for Moscow, prior to being nominated by her party.

The ridiculousness of German outrage, or, at least, the desire of their media to invent this outrage, is that Germany is known to also spy on the U.S. and other countries. One cannot take their outrage over this matter seriously, yet, here it is being talked about.

The exposures themselves are also very interesting. Who is doing it? And why now? I suspect it is the Kremlin, based on their own spies here in the U.S., or maybe the German intelligence agency themselves under Merkel. J.R. Nyquist speculated that part of the purpose of Russia's invasion of Ukraine was to draw out differences between the U.S. and the EU, making them to choose.

The long-range plan of the Kremlin has always been to create division between the United States and Europe leading to the eventual dissolution of NATO, or at least making it irrelevant.

I suspect what we are seeing is part of Russia's play, aided by its agents in the media and governments, to create anti-Americanism or, at least, give a plausible excuse for leaders like Merkel to break with the U.S. and go to bed with the Muscovites more openly. And this, despite the Muscovites literally having National Bolsheviks, as they like to call themselves, rapidly consolidating an open dictatorship under Putin (they already have it, but not openly. The meeting point of the communists and ultranationalists in Russia is that they are both enemies of anything other than a dictatorship, and thus Putin has both groups working for him).

Putin is also involved in infiltrating both far left and right wing parties throughout Europe. Hungary's Jobbik, for example, is receiving support from Moscow. It is a Neo-Nazi organization. The same is true for other groups like this across the world, and even, possibly, with regular "conservative" movements in the UK and the Netherlands. Geer Wilders, for example, though he is publicly against Russia, has been building ties with Moscow. Other parties are more open with their Russian bias, talking about Putin as a traditionalist, although he is actually just a communist KGB.

In the U.S., the PaulBots, or folks like Pat Buchanan's American Conservative, are also, I believe, being courted by Moscow or at least manipulated by their "leaders," like freaks like Alex Jones who appear regularly on Russian state controlled news networks.

In the meantime, the Muscovites are consolidating their support amongst the extreme leftists in Venezuala, Cuba, the Islamists in Iran, a puppet islamic state in Chechnya, China, secretly with North Korea, former soviet bloc states, on top of Moscow's covert aid of communist terror networks across the world through the Russian Mafia (controlled by the FSB).

The United States, unfortunately, has no leadership, and even amongst the Republican Party at large, even they have no strategic vision or realization of what is going on. Consequently, it is like Russia is playing a chess game where we aren't making any moves.

I fear for the future of our country. The end result of all of this is nothing good, but likely the extermination of our country through "one clenched fist," that is, when Russia stops pretending to be our friend and launches the nukes on a disarmed United States, as KGB defectors like Golitsyn predicted.

4 posted on 07/11/2014 6:25:59 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Olog-hai

So now pResident Fredo the Dogeater has driven Germany into Russia’s camp.

MMMMMMMM. Smells like “smart power”.


5 posted on 07/11/2014 6:27:54 PM PDT by Stand W ( You can't fight in here! This is the War Room!)
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To: Olog-hai

Considering what is happening to this country, that may be a more difficult question than one imagines. However, Germany is no slouch when it comes to being a PC welfare state that welcomes Muslims with open arms, either.

Wonder what it’s like to live in Iceland? Mind you, I wouldn’t want to be bitten by a moose. ;-)


6 posted on 07/11/2014 6:31:20 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX (All those who were appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:48)
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To: Olog-hai

Caucasian Caliphate.


7 posted on 07/11/2014 6:33:25 PM PDT by The Toll
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To: Stand W

smells like nObummer.


8 posted on 07/11/2014 6:36:50 PM PDT by himno hero (hadnuff)
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To: givemELL

I believe that a lot of Russians were VERY unhappy about the reunification of Germany. Although East Germany was a Warsaw Pact loser and money-suck, it kept West Germany reduced and weak. Now, I’m sure that they would rather see a “friendly” reunified Germany than an unfriendly one to their west.

I had read that they have the bones of 50,000 German soldiers are stored in a warehouse in St. Petersburg or Moscow, for use in the event that the Germans invaded again. The plan was to strew them on the invasion path to demoralize the invading army. The German government had been negotiating for their return for some time...


9 posted on 07/11/2014 6:37:23 PM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Bump. Very interesting. Thanks.


10 posted on 07/11/2014 6:38:06 PM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Great vid by ShorelineMike! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOZjJk6nbD4&feature=plcp)
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To: Olog-hai

Russia already is the number one trading partner.


11 posted on 07/11/2014 6:41:58 PM PDT by Bogie
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To: Olog-hai; martin_fierro; Charles Henrickson

Ich bin ein By_Poler


12 posted on 07/11/2014 6:50:20 PM PDT by mikrofon (Ich bin ein Tagliner)
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To: givemELL

Any agreement between those two is a precursor to war.


13 posted on 07/11/2014 6:52:12 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

The European socialists have finally gotten the socialist America they’ve always called for... schadenfreude! schadenfreude! schadenfreude!

Germans, this is how a socialist America behaves.


14 posted on 07/11/2014 6:53:42 PM PDT by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: Olog-hai

Maybe after 70 years Germany and Russia can work out a “Lebensraum” deal and bring peace to the area? ????? s/


15 posted on 07/11/2014 7:04:53 PM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (Hillary 2016! Really??? That's Retarded Sir.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

— Tom Lehrer is/was one cool dude!


16 posted on 07/11/2014 7:04:55 PM PDT by The_Media_never_lie (The media must be defeated any way it can be done.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
Yup-- the whole NSA business and now the 'new' spying revelations are masterful Russian spycraft at work. Snowden was a dupe infesting the NSA network with Russian spyware: he has no way of knowing from where the documents he grabbed came from-- the US or the FSB. I think the whole operation was planned from the beginning with splitting Germany from the US.

In addition, who knows how many in the German elite are on the Russian payroll like Schroeder and Fischer already are.

17 posted on 07/11/2014 7:08:51 PM PDT by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: Olog-hai
 
 
I think the preponderance of the issue is actually about "who runs Bartertown" around there.
 
 

18 posted on 07/11/2014 7:23:41 PM PDT by lapsus calami (What's that stink? Code Pink ! ! And their buddy Murtha, too!)
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To: Olog-hai

All of politics is the art of deception.


19 posted on 07/11/2014 7:34:44 PM PDT by Dapper 26
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To: pierrem15
I just wanted Snowden to reveal something about B0 Dunhamsoetorosoebarkah's past. Snowden has been such a disappointment.
20 posted on 07/11/2014 8:09:26 PM PDT by Zuse (I am disrupted! I am offended! I am insulted! I am outraged!)
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To: Olog-hai

Why would anyone side with the US anymore?


21 posted on 07/11/2014 8:10:34 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: givemELL
Maybe the Russians will see opportunity in an accord with Germany that can be turned against Germany this time to Russian advantage.

The first "accord" didn't turn out well for either side.

22 posted on 07/11/2014 8:50:34 PM PDT by luvbach1 (We are finished. It will just take a while before everyone realizes it.)
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To: Olog-hai

Bring back the wall! LOL:-)


23 posted on 07/11/2014 11:57:38 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: Olog-hai; mikrofon; Charles Henrickson


24 posted on 07/12/2014 2:26:00 AM PDT by martin_fierro (Ich bin ein chair-beener)
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To: Olog-hai

“With which country (United States or Russia) should Germany cooperate in the future, respondents were asked?”

To tell you the truth, I’d be happier under Russia’s current government than I am under what we have here. At least that government is not actively repopulating its country.


25 posted on 07/12/2014 4:54:31 AM PDT by BobL
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