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Thank Hobby Lobby for showing why we need single-payer healthcare (Here it comes)
The Los Angeles Times ^ | July 11, 2014 | Various

Posted on 07/12/2014 2:18:06 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

To the editor: When the Supreme Court handed down its Hobby Lobby decision, I was glad — glad because it would be the start of our country realizing how insane it is to link business and healthcare. ("The Hobby Lobby case proves the necessity of single-payer healthcare," July 1)

I know that offering medical care to workers began as a perk, but having started something is no reason to carry on with an insane system that has made our medical care outrageously and unnecessarily expensive.

Medical care must be made affordable to all, without having businesses get in the way. Our current system is outrageous and makes a mockery of our belief that we are a country not founded on religious demands. We should be a country that takes care of its sick and needy whoever they are and whatever they believe.

Shirley Sacks, Beverly Hills

To the editor: The Supreme Court upheld a challenge to part of the Affordable Care Act that applies to a tiny percentage of the population — employed women who cannot afford one of three abortifacients and who are working for small corporations owned by religious people.

Compared to the enormous waivers and extensions granted by the administration, this is nothing. But for Michael Hiltzik, it shows the system has been so shattered that it is time to dump it and adopt a single-payer scheme similar to Canada's, Britain's and France's.

But none of those countries has a true single-payer system, as they all have insurance and private doctors for those who want more than the minimum that the government doles out. They call it "going private," an option of full treatment limited to the rich.

David Goodwin, Los Angeles

To the editor: I agree with Hiltzik that a single-payer system would eliminate....

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abortion; contraceptives; hobbylobby; obamacare
I have been in a "single-payer" system since 1978. You don't want what I have.
1 posted on 07/12/2014 2:18:06 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
how insane it is to link business and healthcare

So end the mandate.

2 posted on 07/12/2014 2:20:57 PM PDT by MUDDOG
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Unfortunately for the leftists, the Obamacare fiasco has destroyed any possibility that the people would be willing to give the government even more power and control over their health care. Thank God.

We need to keep reminding the low-information voters of that little fact.


3 posted on 07/12/2014 2:21:04 PM PDT by MNnice
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The healthcare system is easily fixable in this country. Just declare yourself an illegal or a terrorist, you will have the best healthcare possible, and never EVER join the military as healthcare for military vets is banned.


4 posted on 07/12/2014 2:23:40 PM PDT by GrandJediMasterYoda (Hitlery: Incarnation of evil.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Single payer” means taxpayers pay for it

Which is the worst thing possible


5 posted on 07/12/2014 2:24:51 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I saw a pretty dreadful movie today called “Tammy”.

In it the character complains about gas for $4.00 a gallon and says,sarcastically,”Thamks,Obamacare”.

That surprised me.

.


6 posted on 07/12/2014 2:26:09 PM PDT by Mears
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To: MNnice
Oh, but -- "When the Obama Administration put the government in charge of health care, they didn't have the right people in charge. Now, during the Hillary Clinton Administration, people are much smarter and we can implement Single Payer in a flawless manner."

Voter response: "Okay. Sounds great!"

7 posted on 07/12/2014 2:26:34 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy ("Harvey Dent, can we trust him?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBsdV--kLoQ)
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To: GeronL
“Single payer” means taxpayers pay for it...

...and affirmative-action feral government bureaucrats run it.

8 posted on 07/12/2014 2:26:52 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government." --Tacitus)
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To: MNnice

I don’t think I’d bet on that. Never underestimate the utter stupidity of some people.


9 posted on 07/12/2014 2:27:18 PM PDT by day10 (Integrity has no need of rules.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
insane to link business and healthcare

Authored no doubt by an Obama/Marxist minion.

The U.S. has had the best healthcare in the world because it was run by the free market until government began meddling in the 70's.

What is truly insane is the intentional myopia and tunnel vision these socialist sympathizers have. They ignore current facts, historical record, and theoretical truth.

Unbelievable.

10 posted on 07/12/2014 2:27:41 PM PDT by PapaNew
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Is it state or national? When I was in Delaware, I had to deal with a period of being eligible for state assistance on healthcare. My issue with the state option was how rediculously hard it was to push to receive it. I ultimately left Delaware and started my own family. Glad to be done with the fiasco.


11 posted on 07/12/2014 2:32:49 PM PDT by Morpheus2009
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To: GeronL

yes single-payer means your taxes will up BIG TIME to pay for it


12 posted on 07/12/2014 2:33:28 PM PDT by molson209 (Blank)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Remember in the 1980s car insurance was absolutely insane? I remember paying $5,000 a year for two accidents I had which was an insane amount of money back then.

Then what happened? Suddenly all these car insurance companies started popping up, advertising all over the place, stiff competition whereas today you pay basically nothing, they even ask you to name your own price.

So what happened? It seems to me somebody, maybe Reagan or Bush Sr. got government out of car insurance or they busted a monopoly, something happened in the late 80s early 90s, it could have even been Clinton, but either way WHY don’t they do that with HEALTH INSURANCE?? You ever see health insurance commercials? At least on the level or car insurance commercials? I don’t see no health insurance ads with geckos


13 posted on 07/12/2014 2:33:48 PM PDT by GrandJediMasterYoda (Hitlery: Incarnation of evil.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
our country realizing how insane it is to link business and healthcare

OK, decouple business and health-care, but also decouple government. Everybody on the free market. Government's proper role in insurance would not be to mandate what must be covered but to make sure they cover what they say they'll cover.

14 posted on 07/12/2014 2:39:36 PM PDT by libertylover (The problem with Obama is not that his skin is too black, it's that his ideas are too RED.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I don’t see how we can ever go back. What would the insurance companies do if Obamacare was ruled illegal tomorrow?


15 posted on 07/12/2014 2:42:51 PM PDT by VerySadAmerican (Liberals were raised by women or wimps. And they're all stupid.)
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To: Mears

I haven’t seen the movie but permit me to interpret.

This happens early in the movie.
The lead character who utters this, Tammy, is still establishing herself as a nimrod.
She later evolves as a character and changes into a more enlightened person, allowing the viewer to construct an opinion that earlier traits demonstrated by our main character were ignorant and less enlightened.


16 posted on 07/12/2014 2:43:13 PM PDT by GreenAccord (Bacon Akbar)
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To: GrandJediMasterYoda

Financial deregulation allowed insurance companies to operate across states, although they still needed an insurance charter within each state.

The same happened with banking and brokerage. Fees dropped dramatically.


17 posted on 07/12/2014 2:43:55 PM PDT by oblomov
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Because abortion paid for through taxes is so much less damning to the christian soul than paying for it as a business owner! /sarc


18 posted on 07/12/2014 2:45:58 PM PDT by MortMan (All those in favor of gun control raise both hands!)
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To: VerySadAmerican

They would demand that the government step in to prevent them from going bankrupt.

This is happening within Obamacare today, BTW: google “Obamacare Risk Corridors”


19 posted on 07/12/2014 2:47:30 PM PDT by oblomov
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What has made “medical care outrageously and unnecessarily expensive” is NOT the fact it has been provided for lo these many years as an employer benefit and perk of the job. It has been because of unnecessary costs caused by frivolous litigation, that are passed on to the consumer of these services, based on the altogether unwarranted size of awards made by ignorant juries manipulated by unscrupulous legal representatives for the defendant. Even the fear of being sued has caused many inordinately large out-of-court settlements, and these all get passed down to the consumer in some manner, either in higher costs, or denial of some effective treatments altogether.

True, some cutting-edge medical technological breakthroughs are very expensive and with uncertain results when first introduced, but once the practice has adopted the most effective way of applying the new technology, the costs drop dramatically.

“Single-payer” addresses none of these advantages or concerns. the upshot is an almost total shutdown of ANY innovation, and ever-lengthening wait times to get even less effectual treatment, from practitioners who have less empathy for individual patients that ever before. As if anybody WANTED to practice medicine that way.

Now, employer-paid health coverage is less than perfect, to be sure. The most ideal circumstance would be for everybody to be covered for as much risk as they, personally, are willing to take, even including no coverage at all. The intermediate range, where some coverage is provided, is best done by allowing a savings account, which is made up of income NOT ever subject to taxation, as a Medical Savings Account, to be used for the sole purpose of purchasing routine medial services (this would, of course, include all forms of contraception), and for grave or unusual situations, a Major Medical that would kick in after the entire Medical Savings Account had been spent down. As a supplement, Long Term Care coverage would be a further option for the future. When acquired in the early decades of life, this option is quite reasonable in cost. This, too, is making a bet you won’t be burdened with escalating health care costs in old age, coping with perhaps end-of-life issues.

All these plans are on an INDIVIDUAL basis, or as part of a VOLUNTARY association with a group plan. It is the compulsory nature of “single-payer” that I most object to, with its aspect of rationing, or even downright denial, of medical services. And no choice as to whether it were even possible to go elsewhere.


20 posted on 07/12/2014 2:47:36 PM PDT by alloysteel (Selective and willful ignorance spells doom, to both victim and perpetrator - mostly the perp.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

So all of us sheeple may receive the loving high quality health care of a vastly- expanded VA ? ( Of course, the pres and all Congresscritters and all infiltrated-islamicists are exempt )


21 posted on 07/12/2014 2:49:05 PM PDT by faithhopecharity ((Brilliant, Profound Tag Line Goes Here, just as soon as I can think of one..))
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To: oblomov

What a huge difference it made, unreal. So that’s the answer right there for health insurance. Deregulate and stop with the ambulance chasers and the cost will plummet. Litigation insurance is insane, one of my friends is an obstetrician and she pays something like a quarter mill a year.


22 posted on 07/12/2014 2:52:30 PM PDT by GrandJediMasterYoda (Hitlery: Incarnation of evil.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

BUMP for later.


23 posted on 07/12/2014 2:52:57 PM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin (I don't have 'Hobbies.' I'm developing a robust Post-Apocalyptic skill set...)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

If you want a woman’s right to contraception to not be abused then make contraceptives OTC drugs.


24 posted on 07/12/2014 3:10:04 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: GrandJediMasterYoda
I don’t see no health insurance ads with geckos

Kind of off-topic, but every time my son or I see a gecko, we say it is an insurance salesman. We saw many insurance salesmen during our recent vacation in Florida.

25 posted on 07/12/2014 3:11:35 PM PDT by exDemMom (Current visual of the hole the US continues to dig itself into: http://www.usdebtclock.org/)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Freeloaders, communists, union thugs and ‘RAT baby killers might have gotten that out of the Hobby Lobby decision but NORMAL HUMAN BEINGS don’t see it that way. Go choke on a bottle of ink.


26 posted on 07/12/2014 3:17:26 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (The future must not belong to those who slander bacon.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Insurance makes sense for large, unplanned expenses. For example, a small percentage of people will get cancer which requires spending huge amounts on medical care in order to have a shot at surviving. We can pay in small premiums for catastrophic coverage because most of us will not experience this.

However, insurance never made sense for routine doctor visits, dental exams, etc. We all pay a higher premium for this because people use it excessively when the out-of-pocket cost is low. Medical costs have also skyrocketed at least partially as a result of this.

Tax exempt medical accounts make more sense for routine doctor and dentist expenses.


27 posted on 07/12/2014 3:19:25 PM PDT by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Single payer (taxpayer) funded medical insurance (I decline calling it “health care”) is the path to effectively compelling all of us to support unfettered abortion of infant lives.


28 posted on 07/12/2014 3:20:22 PM PDT by Elsiejay
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
They're half right. Linking medical insurance to your employer was a bad idea from the start, and it's gotten worse since then. Give people the same tax deduction that businesses get for paying for health insurance. For people with incomes low enough that they don't pay taxes, give them vouchers to buy medical insurance from private companies.
29 posted on 07/12/2014 3:41:42 PM PDT by JoeFromSidney (Book: Resistance to Tyranny. Buy from Amazon.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The Left just can’t resist single payer and the power to compel obedience under penalty of life and death. Support the collective and get timely access. Cause problems and go to the back of the line or have procedures denied totally. Obama is just the latest totalitarian to see the power.


30 posted on 07/12/2014 3:44:46 PM PDT by Truth29
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

These commies must have conveniently missed all the horrible news about the VA scandals. There’s your single-payer system at “work”, you dumbass.


31 posted on 07/12/2014 3:57:24 PM PDT by NohSpinZone (First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Yes, thank you Hobby Lobby, for bringing the elitists out of the shadows so that we can ALL see who they are, and exactly what they want the American Health Care System to be. It has been very enlightening.


32 posted on 07/12/2014 4:55:28 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The VA is a single payer government run health care system and look at the problems that have become endemic at the VA. Do you really want government bureaucrats deciding when and if you get medical care and what care you can receive? At the VA bureaucrats knowingly and criminally hid waiting lists for their bonuses and as a result hundred of veterans died from not receiving prompt care. Do you really think that a single payer government run health care system for the entire country would be any different?


33 posted on 07/12/2014 9:02:42 PM PDT by The Great RJ
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