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Did Adam Really Live 930 Years?
Institute for Creation Research ^ | 7-14-14 | Brian Thomas

Posted on 07/14/2014 8:10:13 AM PDT by fishtank

Did Adam Really Live 930 Years?

by Brian Thomas, M.S. *

Genesis 5:5 says Adam lived for 930 years. Judging by today’s standards, this sounds impossible. Many contemporary readers of Genesis balk at such numbers and some end up rejecting the whole Bible. But a few researchers have found reasons to believe it.

Plant geneticist Dr. John Sanford and his colleagues plotted the ages of the biblical patriarchs listed in Genesis. The result shows a systematic drop-off in lifespans after 950-year-old Noah, “in a way that could never happen by chance,” according to an online post showing their results.1

(Excerpt) Read more at icr.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
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"The Genesis lifespans decline according to a well-defined decay curve that began immediately after the Flood."

Caption quoted from ICR article.

. . . . . . Fishtank comment: (1) Did Moses falsify the data? How could he do that? Did he know exponential math? (2) If the data points are true (and I see no reason why they are not), then what does that say about the radical process of discontinuity from one equilibrium state to another? (3) Could other physical processes have been affected as well at that time period?

1 posted on 07/14/2014 8:10:13 AM PDT by fishtank
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To: fishtank

This is a well known trend in the scriptural accounts of antiquity.

Job was one of those long-lived humans.

Some (notably, Hugh Ross with his OEC) have speculated that nuclear radiation made the difference, such as the Vela supernova... maybe. I’ve gotten leery of “scientism” both in old earth and young earth flavors, when we are dealing with a God that can keep Israelites’ shoes from wearing out during 40 years of wandering.


2 posted on 07/14/2014 8:15:32 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: fishtank

Wives increased their nagging! JMHO.


3 posted on 07/14/2014 8:18:18 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: fishtank

“Time flies when you’re having fun”, proven by your chart ...

y = time
x = having fun


4 posted on 07/14/2014 8:18:37 AM PDT by shove_it (My real nickname is Otter)
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To: fishtank

“Hey, remember back in 5,000 BC when we used to ride go-carts together as kids? Good times, my friend.”


5 posted on 07/14/2014 8:18:51 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: fishtank

Abe Vigoda is up to 900...

6 posted on 07/14/2014 8:21:25 AM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: fishtank

reversed hockey stick...

noah living so long was just a typo... it happens.

t


7 posted on 07/14/2014 8:22:05 AM PDT by teeman8r (Armageddon won't be pretty, but it's not like it's the end of the world.)
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To: fishtank

Adam did not work out like Noah. He just lounged around in Eden.


8 posted on 07/14/2014 8:22:52 AM PDT by minnesota_bound
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To: fishtank

Only if he had a iWatch with bio-health sensors...

/sarc>


9 posted on 07/14/2014 8:23:54 AM PDT by BBB333 (Q: Which is grammatically correct? Joe Biden IS or Joe Biden ARE an idiot?)
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To: fishtank

I am a conservative Christian, but I think this, along with similar attempts to “prove” Scripture using modern natural science and modern historology are misguided and counterproductive. It cedes to our opponents (and in the public eye) their claim that modern natural science and modern historology are the proper turf on which to fight the battle. Scripture was not written as a history and science textbook in the modern sense. It was written as a great book of Divine Wisdom to be mined for great Truth, not a simple recounting of historical trivia.


10 posted on 07/14/2014 8:24:03 AM PDT by dinoparty
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To: fishtank

Could it be that months were years?
New moon was a year?

930 months is 77.5 years.


11 posted on 07/14/2014 8:25:30 AM PDT by US_MilitaryRules (Did you just get off the short bus or what?)
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To: fishtank

I am not sure, but I will tell you what I heard. Before the flood, the entire earth was tropical. There was the firmament, which did not allow direct sunlight. During the flood, the firmament was broken, thereby allowing direct sunlight, which will kill a person after about 70 years, give or take. I just wonder what Adam and Eve did for 900 years, to stay busy? I suspect they had brilliant minds. I would guess Eve probably had a baby every year for hundreds of years. These are just some of the things I have heard in the past.


12 posted on 07/14/2014 8:26:03 AM PDT by Mark17 (Obama & Nero? Both Emperors. The difference is Nero plays a fiddle, while Obama plays Minnesota Fats)
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To: fishtank
Dang global warming climate change. If not for evil SUVs, factories, cow farts, and deforestation, we'd all still be living past 900 years of age!

Probably Noah's fault for cutting down all those trees for his silly boat.

13 posted on 07/14/2014 8:26:47 AM PDT by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: teeman8r

That teeman8r, he’s a real comedian.

Sometimes in biblical genealogies, a man will be cited where the apparent intent was to designate a small dynasty beginning with that man. Comparing biblical genealogies seems to suggest that approach in the context of genealogies. However, there aren’t any other clues to suggest the scripture is talking about a “Noah dynasty” here, and why would such dynasties get shorter and shorter with time?


14 posted on 07/14/2014 8:27:35 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: fishtank

Saying that the patriarch lived a long time was a way of increasing their stature in the eyes of the faithful. It was not to be taken literally.


15 posted on 07/14/2014 8:28:01 AM PDT by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible. Complicit in the destruction of this country.)
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To: fishtank

Here is my personal “scientific” answer:

When God created Adam and Eve, their DNA was PERFECT. 100% perfect -— no bad genes, no defects, no anything that could or would go wrong. And they were protected within Eden from any outside sources of genetic contamination or deterioration -— no radiation, no viruses, no toxins.

It took time for the genetic alterations and defects to build up within the populations to a noticeable level, and before genetic problems started to be seen. This is why there were no prohibitions against marrying close relatives until the law of Moses, and no genetically diseases caused by those early marriages.

Once driven out of Eden, all those negative things and many others began to work on that perfect DNA and corrupted it -— “death” came into the world.

And with each successive genetic defect, lifespans decreased, and inherited disorders increased.

It makes perfect scientific sense when you think about it.


16 posted on 07/14/2014 8:28:29 AM PDT by LTC.Ret (I was Constitutional Conservative when it wasn't Cool)
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To: fishtank

You notice the decrease in lifespan begins after the flood? Also, I don’t recall seeing any mentions of hunters prior to the flood.

Perhaps God changed man and his ecosystem while all living creatures were huddled in the ark?


17 posted on 07/14/2014 8:28:35 AM PDT by yuleeyahoo (Liberty is not collective, it is personal. All liberty is individual liberty. - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: dinoparty

The more I get to know the kinds of things that God does, the less I am surprised to see things like this. This automatically limits what secular science can actually illuminate, and that doesn’t bother me. In fact I’d expect God to set up circumstances where secular science, if idolized, will (not might, will) hit brick walls.

I get the point about not rushing into scientism whether it be in YEC or OEC flavors.


18 posted on 07/14/2014 8:30:19 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: dinoparty

There is no need to interject a conflict between the biblical texts and the so-called “natural sciences.” The biblical texts comport precisely with the latter, and are at the same time given for our learning so that we may know where we came from and where we are going. There will always be mockers. Let them mock to their hearts’ content.


19 posted on 07/14/2014 8:30:41 AM PDT by Fester Chugabrew (Even the compassion of the wicked is cruel.)
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To: al_c

But the ark was very green!


20 posted on 07/14/2014 8:31:16 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Fester Chugabrew

I’m more careful about that now. Scotty could not change the laws of physics but the Lord can.


21 posted on 07/14/2014 8:31:57 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Gerald L. Schroeder the Orthodox Jewish physicist, author, does an excellent job of explaining Biblical time - his “Science of God, The Convergence of Scientific and Biblical Wisdom”, “The Big Bang” takes nothing away from the Bible while giving the reader a broader view. All of his books are enlightening, his “Hidden Face of God” is truly a gem.


22 posted on 07/14/2014 8:32:13 AM PDT by yoe
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To: LTC.Ret

It sounds like one possible principle at work.


23 posted on 07/14/2014 8:32:49 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Perhaps. But it was also a high methane producer. :-)


24 posted on 07/14/2014 8:33:16 AM PDT by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: dinoparty

I have two sons studying science. One loves physics and sees God’s hand physics, in math and in patterns.

My second son is studying biology in order to be a surgeon. He admires God’s hand in the human body and especially the cells.

Both of them are motivated in part by exploring God’s creation.

A biblical basis for my son’s and for other scientists is from Romans 1

0 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.


25 posted on 07/14/2014 8:34:28 AM PDT by Raycpa
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To: yoe

I’d be careful about one thing here however... the interjection of Jewish oral legend. This is revered in rabbinical Judaism as the thing that completes the Torah, but Christians do not view it in that manner.


26 posted on 07/14/2014 8:35:08 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: fishtank

Supposing that the amount of time comprising a solar year remained constant both before and after such a catastrophic, worldwide event might be in error.


27 posted on 07/14/2014 8:36:18 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: fishtank

One of the theories of the flood include a reference to a canopy protecting the Earth before the flood. This would seem to tie into that.


28 posted on 07/14/2014 8:36:47 AM PDT by Ingtar (The NSA - "We're the only part of government who actually listens to the people.")
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To: dinoparty

> It was written as a great book of Divine Wisdom to be mined
> for great Truth,

“What is Truth?” Pontius Pilate to Jesus.

If there is no Truth in Genesis, then how can you trust any of it?

Jesus believed the Genesis account, and it wasn’t just to humor the neanderthalian natives. If Jesus lied, then He wasn’t even a decent prophet, let alone the Son of God.


29 posted on 07/14/2014 8:37:26 AM PDT by Westbrook (Children do not divide your love, they multiply it.)
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To: Raycpa

When the sciences are kept within useful domains, such as medicine, they are wonderful servants. Man was bidden to subdue the (wild) earth, and the practical sciences are a way of doing this.

Where it goes off the rails is when it’s used as a rationale to ascribe everything living to some kind of faceless, stand alone evolution. That steals from the dignity of mankind.


30 posted on 07/14/2014 8:38:40 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: LTC.Ret

I’ll be curious to see comments regarding your post. I found your thoughts interesting.


31 posted on 07/14/2014 8:39:21 AM PDT by roofgoat
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To: RegulatorCountry

There doesn’t seem to be an indication that calendars grew in the number of days.


32 posted on 07/14/2014 8:39:29 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: dinoparty
"I am a conservative Christian, but I think this, along with similar attempts to “prove” Scripture using modern natural science and modern historology are misguided and counterproductive. It cedes to our opponents (and in the public eye) their claim that modern natural science and modern historology are the proper turf on which to fight the battle."

IN addition to that, before you can try to falsify the bible with scientific knowledge is you would have to know all the "science" there is to know and we haven't even scratched the surface. One feature of every major new scientific discovery is that it reveals a whole new astounding level of complexity we were unaware of.

33 posted on 07/14/2014 8:40:10 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: LTC.Ret

I like your response - it does make perfect sense. The efforts to save us from disease and pestilence mean there will be the survival of the Unfittest, too. That’s fine by me as I like living more than preserving a long life span...selfish woman that I am...


34 posted on 07/14/2014 8:42:23 AM PDT by Sioux-san
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To: Ingtar

In scriptural accounts and in eschatology we see several distinct time spans each having its own distinct qualities. The canopy of pre-Flood existence would be one such quality.


35 posted on 07/14/2014 8:43:33 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: dinoparty

Yes the Bible says Adam lived 930 yrs and Methusela lived 969 years....but in those years leading up to Noah and the Ark there was a lot of sin, which is why God destroyed the earth by water, and the consequence of that flood was it destroyed the dinosaurs.


36 posted on 07/14/2014 8:44:57 AM PDT by Kackikat (ELECTED officials took an OATH...get off your cowardly a$ses and be A PATRIOT now!)
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To: LTC.Ret

Real scientists have found bones in the middle east that are both 9,000 years old and which bear traces of tuberculosis.

When you add in a bunch of facts, what seems to make perfect scientific sense can suddenly appear to be less so.


37 posted on 07/14/2014 8:45:26 AM PDT by Natufian (t)
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To: circlecity

The phenomenon that our modern scientists call dark matter is one such thing. Nobody has ever gotten any of that stuff in a test tube or beaker as far as they know, yet scientists now say there looks to be scads of it scattered in various places throughout the cosmos.


38 posted on 07/14/2014 8:46:28 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: fishtank
I wonder who was printing Adam's calenders back then?

Where all the women on them nekkid?

39 posted on 07/14/2014 8:48:00 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: Sioux-san

The bible posits a different kind of fitness, which is spiritual fitness. And that all have lost it, but all have at least in principle the chance of regaining it.


40 posted on 07/14/2014 8:48:03 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: HiTech RedNeck

Schroeder’s view as a physicist is both clear and wonderful and I feel, opinionless...


41 posted on 07/14/2014 8:48:35 AM PDT by yoe
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To: HiTech RedNeck

“Dark Matter” is just a term used to describe the fact that traditional cosmological models don’t conform to the empirical data. Same with Dark Energy.


42 posted on 07/14/2014 8:48:41 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: US_MilitaryRules

Don’t hink so. My guess is they were metric years.;-)


43 posted on 07/14/2014 8:48:58 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: LTC.Ret

That makes sense. I would attribute rare examples of sheer prodigy to pockets of residual genetic excellence. Adam and Eve’s genetic makeup had to be incredibly rich in terms of both mental and physical stamina. Science today can hardly comprehend the extent of human intellect. But then 1/6 of the population voted for Obama, so there is certainly a downside as well.


44 posted on 07/14/2014 8:49:19 AM PDT by Fester Chugabrew (Even the compassion of the wicked is cruel.)
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To: circlecity

Like the phlogiston of old natural science, it might end up being a placeholder for a “better” theory.


45 posted on 07/14/2014 8:50:03 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: fishtank
To me, this merely illustrates a common feature of human psychology: The farther back and consequently less-verifiable the assertion, the bolder the assertion, e.g.:

"When I was a kid, I had to walk five miles in the snow to school..."

Regards,

46 posted on 07/14/2014 8:52:21 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: dinoparty

“Science” resides within the concept of “time”.
Time was created by God.
God exists outside of such concepts (AKA: eternity).
There is no ^real^ reconciliation between those concepts until Christ returns.

I point to the term (and *concept*) of “the end of time”.


47 posted on 07/14/2014 8:53:57 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alteration: The acronym explains the science.)
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To: fishtank
The books of the Old Testament were passed down through songs and stories around the campfires for about 1200 years, from about 1800 BC to about 600 BC. None of it was written down until the Hebrews were taken in as slaves to Babylon. Much like Americans who were brought from Africa, their period of slavery removed them from a savage wilderness existence, to some semblance of civilization.

The morals of these stories helped many generations progress toward better ways of living and thinking.

Then every few generations, along comes a large batch of total idiots; so desperate in their ignorance and superstition to worship creatures and things, rather than the Creator; who can't seem to get beyond arguing about the literal interpretations, while totally ignoring all the morals of the stories.

These idiots just cannot wait to be (again) enslaved and martyred, just so they don't have to do so much thinking for themselves.

48 posted on 07/14/2014 8:54:11 AM PDT by meadsjn
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To: Raycpa

I admire them (and you, for raising great kids). As for the Scriptural angle, I don’t think that what you say is inconsistent with what I said. Yes, God’s creation is great and worthy of study. That does not mean, however, that every detail of Scripture understood at the most superficial level must be “proven” (or even capable of being “proven”) by the scientific method in order for the detail to be defended. Often such details are included for the purpose of presenting a greater Truth about God, and are true insofar as they do that. God EQUALS truth.


49 posted on 07/14/2014 8:58:43 AM PDT by dinoparty
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To: fishtank

The best explanation I’ve heard of this is degradation/corruption of DNA in the human body. Human bodies were optimal but then sin introduced decay into our universe and every began falling apart...entropy.


50 posted on 07/14/2014 8:59:48 AM PDT by DouglasKC
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