Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

THREE HUNDRED passenger planes were scheduled to fly over Ukraine on day...(Short Title)
DailyMail.co.uk ^ | July 18, 2014 | Sarah Gordon, Carol Driver

Posted on 07/18/2014 3:53:54 AM PDT by Biggirl

Nearly 300 passenger planes were scheduled to fly over the Ukraine yesterday. Some 290 commercial flights continued operating over the war zone, with just 10 fewer aircraft entering Ukrainian airspace than normal, according to European air traffic control centre Eurocontrol.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: icao; mh17; russia; ukraine
Long Title:

"THREE HUNDRED passenger planes were scheduled to fly over Ukraine on day MH17 was shot down... despite warnings to airlines about "serious risks to safety"

1 posted on 07/18/2014 3:53:54 AM PDT by Biggirl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Biggirl
The plane shot down was above the restricted altitude and had traversed almost the entire west to east span of Ukraine ... THEN someone decided to shoot it down.

To me ... suspicious ... zero is Malaysian, and runniung faster away from getting caught ... these days

2 posted on 07/18/2014 3:57:58 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

Hindsight is 20/20 but this was really the first thought I had when hearing the news...’Why are they flying over a (potential) war zone?’


3 posted on 07/18/2014 3:58:12 AM PDT by relictele (Principiis obsta & Finem respice - Resist The Beginnings & Consider The Ends)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl
'It’s up to each individual nation, each individual airline how much risk they are going to accept.'

And in the case of Malaysia, they have no reason to worry about air safety. I guess it's official now: Malaysian Airlines is run by cretins. Book your tickets today!

4 posted on 07/18/2014 4:01:08 AM PDT by samtheman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

Short title ‘Russian Roulette’


5 posted on 07/18/2014 4:19:20 AM PDT by SMARTY ("When you blame others, you give up your power to change." Robert Anthony)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: knarf

Obama grew up in Indonesia, not Malaysia. Entirely different country. Malaysia was a former British colony, and has a good size Chinese minority that lives in relative peace with the Muslim majority. Indonesia, not so much.


6 posted on 07/18/2014 4:20:51 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: relictele

Why? It is pretty simple, per the article:

Veteran Australian war correspondent Michael Ware said: ‘This is a sad reality of where the commercial imperative collides with war. It’s still economically attractive to airlines to continue flying over war zones. It’s simply a matter of cost and reducing fuel. Alas that is what happened here.’


7 posted on 07/18/2014 4:21:14 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: samtheman

My guess is, although Malaysia Airlines is a state-owned airline, and it’s been operating in the red for the past 3yrs, it’s going to disappear and its assets and routes be sold and divided-up between smaller carriers like Air Asia and others in the region. The planes must be empty by now, after the 370 and 17 incidents.


8 posted on 07/18/2014 4:38:47 AM PDT by carriage_hill (Some days you're the windshield, and some days you're the bug.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

There is a NO FLY ZONE to the southeast over Crimea forcing planes to fly north of there.

So if planes are going to go east and west they have to fly over eastern Ukraine and those mindless thugs in Donetsk.

So all this blabber about it being the pilot’s fault for flying over “a War Zone” is hogwash.


9 posted on 07/18/2014 4:43:33 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

Problem is that there is NO ENFORCEMENT of such “no go” zones.


10 posted on 07/18/2014 4:47:51 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

So to whatever degree the airline and/or the crew were unwise to use that route they surely weren’t alone.


11 posted on 07/18/2014 4:48:31 AM PDT by SayNoToDems (Will the dancing Hitlers please wait in the wings? We're only seeing singing Hitlers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: carriage_hill

Yep, look for Malaysia Airlines to go the way of Pam Am.


12 posted on 07/18/2014 4:48:37 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

It wasn’t not a NO GO zone — the zone south of there is the NO GO zone. Check the map —


13 posted on 07/18/2014 4:50:25 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

Get me a map please. Thank-you!

Because it is a war zone, eastern Ukraine, you do have to consider it a no-go zone.


14 posted on 07/18/2014 4:55:49 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

Did you miss what you posted:

“Nearly 300 passenger planes were scheduled to fly over the Ukraine yesterday.”

Are you saying that 300 pilots couldn’t read a map???


15 posted on 07/18/2014 5:02:35 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

.....Or rather one did not?


16 posted on 07/18/2014 5:12:12 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl
From zerohedge...

Perhaps the best visualization of what the issue is, comes from Vagelis Karmiros who has collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked by Flightaware and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of Azov, it was only today's tragic flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk.


17 posted on 07/18/2014 5:51:17 AM PDT by HangnJudge
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HangnJudge

Thank-you! This is what I wanted to see.


18 posted on 07/18/2014 5:54:07 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

Is flight MH17 to Obama what the RMS Lusitania was to Woodorw Wilson?

What We Can Learn From Woodrow Wilson’s Great Blunder The Case for Staying Out of Other People’s Wars

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2005/04/jim-powell/what-we-can-learn-from-woodrow-wilsons-greatblunder-the-case-for-staying-out-of-other-peoples-wars/


19 posted on 07/18/2014 6:31:32 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike (‘You can avoid reality, but you can’t avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.’)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Hotlanta Mike

Yep, you got it.

But I am afraid we could be brought it because of American weakness.


20 posted on 07/18/2014 6:33:56 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Alas Babylon!
oops, you're right ... I got them confused.

DAMN!!

And I thought I was ON to something..

21 posted on 07/18/2014 6:54:44 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

“So if planes are going to go east and west they have to fly over eastern Ukraine and those mindless thugs in Donetsk.

So all this blabber about it being the pilot’s fault for flying over “a War Zone” is hogwash.”


The pic posted by HanginJudge proves you are wrong, though I don’t know if it’s the pilots fault or if he was sent on that path by Ukrainian air flight control.


22 posted on 07/18/2014 11:00:45 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Mount Athos

It proves nothing of the sort —

As of yesterday 300 flights were scheduled to follow that route.


23 posted on 07/18/2014 11:11:23 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: HangnJudge
You want me to fly over where?


24 posted on 07/18/2014 11:15:40 AM PDT by McGruff (If you are foul mouthed troll don't expect a reply to your rants.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

A route directly over Donetsk and Luhansk, as shown in the map?

You’re lying.


25 posted on 07/18/2014 11:18:50 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Mount Athos

What part of this do you not understand:

Singapore Airlines plane was flying just 15 MILES away when MH17 was shot down over Ukraine ... and 55 aircraft flew over danger zone on the SAME DAY

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-2697098/THREE-HUNDRED-planes-scheduled-fly-Ukraine-day-MH17-tragedy.html#ixzz37qYfxwKX


26 posted on 07/18/2014 11:37:43 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

The article makes the same mistake you did.

The entire country of Ukraine is not a warzone.

When you say that flights north of Crimea must fly over Donetsk, that is not even close to being true.

The map posted above proves you are wrong; 9 of the 10 last flights managed to go north of Crimea without overflying Donetsk.

When the article says that 290 flights flew over the warzone, that isn’t even close to being true either, they are labeling the entire country as a warzone.


27 posted on 07/18/2014 11:53:25 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Mount Athos
The article makes the same mistake you did.

Then go argue with the article --

The fact remains that until yesterday the airspace over Donetsk was not a NO FLY ZONE.

The NO FLY ZONE was over Crimea and southeastern Ukraine compelling pilots to fly north of there -- and north of there is Donetsk.

28 posted on 07/18/2014 11:58:41 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

Najib said the aircraft flight route was declared safe by the International Civil Aviation Organization.

The International Air Transportation Association had also stated that the air space that the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions, he said.

Besides, “Malaysia Airlines has confirmed that the aircraft did not make a distress call.”

Still, a former head of airports security group BAA suggested that many airlines including Malaysia Airlines had continued to use the route despite warnings because it was shorter and cheaper.

“It is a busy aviation route and there have been suggestions that a notice was given to aviators telling airlines to avoid that particular area,” said Norman Shanks, who is a professor of aviation security at Coventry University in England.

“But Malaysia Airlines, like a number of other carriers, have been continuing to use it because it is a shorter route, which means less fuel and therefore less money,” he told The Associated Press.

Hours after the disaster, Malaysia Airlines announced all European flights will henceforth take an alternative route.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/malaysia-says-jetliner-did-not-210218999.html;_ylt=AwrBEiS4dMlT4RsAQifQtDMD


29 posted on 07/18/2014 12:37:32 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

“The fact remains that until yesterday the airspace over Donetsk was not a NO FLY ZONE. “

Yes, and isn’t a scandal?

I think we’re coming to closer agreement.

The war zone is actually a really tiny area within Ukraine, and quite easy to avoid.

The vast majority of paths north of Crimea do not overfly the war zone.

It’s good that they are avoiding it now, but it seems common sense to not overfly a warzone.

Did they really fly over it to save money? I’m skeptical. How would they choose a path pefectly over the warzone? Look at that map to see what a small area it is.
Was that pilot decision or were they directed there by flight controller? I don’t know.


30 posted on 07/18/2014 3:28:52 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Mount Athos

The route flown by the downed Malaysia Airlines (MAS) flight MH17 was one approved by the International Civil Aviation Authority (ICAO) and had been used by Malaysia Airlines for years, said Transport Minister Datuk Seri Liow Tiong Lai. Liow, who spoke at a press conference at the Sama-Sama Hotel here on Friday denied that MAS had used the route to save on fuel costs.

“The route was an approved path that had been used for ten years by MAS and other aircraft, and 15 out of 16 Asia-Pacific countries use that route which has been determined by the ICAO. There was nothing informing us that the route should not be used. For many years, we have taken the same route and many other countries have also used the same route. In fact during that time, many other aircraft were using the same route,” said Liow.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3182101/posts?page=34#34


31 posted on 07/18/2014 3:55:30 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

Yes, and it isn’t it a scandal that they didn’t avoid direct overflights of Donetsk when it became a warzone?


32 posted on 07/18/2014 3:56:56 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Mount Athos

Who declares an area a war zone and who declared this area a war zone???


33 posted on 07/18/2014 3:59:53 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

What’s the relevance of a declaration?

Everyone knows there is big fighting there.

It’s common sense to avoid flying directly above warzone.
Right?


34 posted on 07/18/2014 4:01:18 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Mount Athos

I’ll ask again — who declared it a War Zone???

We know that the Crimea was officially declared a NO FLY ZONE.

If Donetsk was a War Zone where no planes were supposed to fly then why wasn’t it declared a NO FLY ZONE by the same body???


35 posted on 07/18/2014 4:04:55 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

“If Donetsk was a War Zone where no planes were supposed to fly then why wasn’t it declared a NO FLY ZONE by the same body???”

Investigators into Thursday’s crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 will scrutinize a decision by Ukrainian officials this week to set the height of their no-fly zone over conflict-torn eastern Ukraine to 32,000 feet—when many ground-to-air missiles can easily surpass 40,000 feet.

Flight 17 was flying around 33,000 feet over the restricted airspace before it crashed, officials said. After the crash, Ukrainian officials expanded the no-fly zone to all airspace above the region.

Investigators are going to want “to hear how they determined that the risk was acceptable. [Ukrainian officials] should have done a formal risk assessment,” said air-safety consultant John Cox, a former union crash investigator and safety official.

...
On July 1, Ukraine advised pilots to not fly below 26,000 feet over the region. On Monday, Ukraine said a Russian missile took down a Ukrainian military cargo jet flying at 21,000 feet, and the government increased the restricted airspace to 32,000 feet.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/height-of-ukraine-no-fly-zone-faces-scrutiny-1405639624


36 posted on 07/18/2014 4:12:43 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Mount Athos

You didn’t answer my question — why wasn’t it declared a NO FLY ZONE by the same group that declared Crimea one???

And why did they shoot it down when it was almost out of Donetsk airspace and into Russian airspace??


37 posted on 07/18/2014 4:23:53 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Uncle Chip

I answered your question to the best of my ability with the latest information.

The Ukrainians chose to raise the flight levels instead of making it a fly zone after their transport plane was shot down.

Why? I don’t know.

Why did they shoot it down when it was almost out of Donetsk territory into Russia?
That’s not an established fact.
The most popular theory I see bandied around is the rebels shot it because they thought it was a military transport plane.
But the Ukrainians have same type of missile and accidentally shot down civilian plane in 2001.
I guess more truth will be known later.


38 posted on 07/18/2014 8:37:06 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson