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Was Flight MH-17 Diverted Over Restricted Airspace? [graphics at link]
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/was-flight-mh-17-diverted-over-restricted-airspace ^

Posted on 07/18/2014 4:30:53 AM PDT by Perdogg

While there are various questions that have already emerged from what was supposed to be Ukraine's "slam dunk" proof confirming Russian rebel involvement in today's MH-17 tragedy, perhaps one just as gaping question emerges when one looks at what is clearly an outlier flight path in today's final, and tragic, departure of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777.

Perhaps the best visualization of what the issue is, comes from Vagelis Karmiros who has collated all the recent MH-17 flight paths as tracked by Flightaware and shows that while all ten most recent paths pass safely well south of the Donetsk region, and cross the zone above the Sea of Azov, it was only today's tragic flight that passed straight overhead Donetsk.

(Excerpt) Read more at zerohedge.com ...


TOPICS: Russia
KEYWORDS: mh17; ukraine
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1 posted on 07/18/2014 4:30:53 AM PDT by Perdogg
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To: Perdogg

It is an oddity. A question that begs for an answer.

You will be flamed for this even though it comes from the WSJ.


2 posted on 07/18/2014 4:36:17 AM PDT by dforest
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To: Perdogg

I did wonder if it was deliberately taken off course when I read about the pilot. They may want to check out all of those Malaysian pilots.


3 posted on 07/18/2014 4:39:30 AM PDT by JudyinCanada
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To: Perdogg
Reports I've seen suggest that there were major airlines taking routes similar to the one that the downed aircraft took.If true this would take the airline and the crew off the hook blame-wise.Also,what instructions,if any,did air traffic control give to this aircraft?
4 posted on 07/18/2014 4:39:34 AM PDT by SayNoToDems (Will the dancing Hitlers please wait in the wings? We're only seeing singing Hitlers.)
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To: Perdogg

It flew a more northerly path due to a big storm over it’s usual route. It flew 2 “air highways” farther north to avoid the storm. One of the news networks overlaid the flight path with the weather radar screen, which clearly showed the storm. It was not flying over restricted airspace.


5 posted on 07/18/2014 4:44:29 AM PDT by libertylover (The problem with Obama is not that his skin is too black, it's that his ideas are too RED.)
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To: Perdogg
Well this begs some questions.

It was under Ukrainian Air Traffic control at the time I believe. This could turn out to be another TWA Flight 800.

6 posted on 07/18/2014 4:55:32 AM PDT by McGruff (Denial: It's Not Just a River in Egypt)
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To: Perdogg

I am sure the Soros/Obama/EU Ukraine supporters on here already have a link to an NBC story that refutes this report...am I right?

If Russian backed rebels only have shoulder rocket launchers...then Ukraine has a lot of ‘splaining to do


7 posted on 07/18/2014 5:02:30 AM PDT by DisorderOnBorder (They are Illegal Aliens...not immigrants)
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To: McGruff

I figured we’d have a Putin butt-kisser all over this in record time - too bad for you someone injected reality in post 5 before your post 6.


8 posted on 07/18/2014 5:14:18 AM PDT by dirtboy
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To: libertylover

I don’t think the issue is whether the airspace was totally restricted at all altitudes, rather the point is that prudent airlines had already taken deliberate steps to reroute flights away from an active war zone where combatant aircraft had recently been shot down at lower altitudes. It has been reported that there was already a 32,000 foot minimum, which if true establishes that civil aviation did perceive a threat from the active war zone.


9 posted on 07/18/2014 5:14:33 AM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: JudyinCanada

they are all members of the Religion of Peace....


10 posted on 07/18/2014 5:16:50 AM PDT by B212
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To: Perdogg

Another thing. This incident has some eerie similarities to the Syrian WMD thing. Now that we know it was ISIS who is on the rebel side in Syria, we can “get it” that the WMD use could have been easily either side. Both sides lie and stink. The rebel side wanted US intervention. McCain did too.(just an aside)

Nothing is really as it seems, especially when conclusions are made in haste.

I have no idea who is behind this plane crash, but it isn’t really all that clear yet as to who benefits most. Or else it was a case of a bunch of morons playing with missiles thinking they got another one. Yee hah.

Either way, what are we to do about it. No, what will Obama do about it? he should be able to see that his lack of interest seems rather curious.


11 posted on 07/18/2014 5:17:29 AM PDT by dforest
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To: DisorderOnBorder
Why are You Evil Putin KGB groupies still allowed to spread your Lies here ,

These Russian military scum were caught red handed bragging about shooting this plane down!
The Russian army held hostage the Ukraine army in this region and the Crimea and have these anti aircraft missiles to the Russian military swat teams and paid mercenaries posing as rebels .

Why do you think you lying scum can post lies here!

12 posted on 07/18/2014 5:20:13 AM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: Perdogg
Why post this crap..

The Airline already answered this question yesterday!

They went this route because they wanted to save fuel and Money!

The Airlines run by the Govt and they had not banned this route because they are a Neutral state .

No one thought the Russian military and its paid mercenaries would go this far.

Putin is a sick KGB sociopath and so is everyone around him!

13 posted on 07/18/2014 5:26:00 AM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: Perdogg

I think I saw this morning that 33,000 feet was not restricted air space. It is now.


14 posted on 07/18/2014 5:27:36 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: McGruff
This could turn out to be another TWA Flight 800.

TWA Flight 800 happened July 17, 1996.

This happened July 17, 2014.

Just a coincidence...

15 posted on 07/18/2014 5:28:47 AM PDT by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: ncalburt

“They went this route because they wanted to save fuel and Money!”

I guess that didn’t work out so well for either stated goal.


16 posted on 07/18/2014 5:29:37 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: McGruff

I wonder who was on it. Anyone of special importance to someone important?


17 posted on 07/18/2014 5:30:15 AM PDT by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: DisorderOnBorder

Another Lefty troll

Joined june 25,2014 and posting Putin groupie propaganda !


18 posted on 07/18/2014 5:32:51 AM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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Year Long FReepathons!
Sound Good?
No?


Click The Pic To Donate

DONATE

19 posted on 07/18/2014 5:34:52 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
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To: dforest
Nothing is really as it seems, especially when conclusions are made in haste. I have no idea who is behind this plane crash, but it isn’t really all that clear yet as to who benefits most.

Well said. "Cui bono?" is always the question, but cannot be answered at this point. I do not see any way that Russia might benefit from deliberately shooting down a civilian airliner. Ukraine might benefit if Russia could be blamed for it, as the new Kiev regime is shaky and desperately wants Western intervention. But I think the most likely explanation is that separatist rebels mistook this airliner for a Ukrainian Air Force transport (like the AN-24 they recently shot down) and took it out with a captured SA-17 system that they aren't fully familiar with. Eventually, we might learn what really happened.

20 posted on 07/18/2014 5:35:43 AM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: McGruff

Are you sick twisted Putin KGB nut-jobs happy!

Now your posting the More KGB fed Misinformation here !

You need to get removed from this site.

You Putin groupies are Sick !

Your using the deaths of 80 children for your Evil Putin propaganda campaign !


21 posted on 07/18/2014 5:36:46 AM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: GBA

No just 80 children and a bunch if innocent that the SICK Putin groupies here like to use to spread more crazy KGB misinformation for !


22 posted on 07/18/2014 5:41:31 AM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: ncalburt

Are you saying that the flight path depicted on the screen capture is incorrect or are you saying that the plane was not under Kiev air control?


23 posted on 07/18/2014 5:45:04 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: Always A Marine

The separatist shot down an AN_26 which has a service ceiling of 25,000 ft. The airliner was cruising at 33,000 ft. Why would the separatists shoot down an aircraft traveling thousands of feet higher than the supposed targeted AN_26?


24 posted on 07/18/2014 5:45:16 AM PDT by Mashood
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To: Always A Marine
I do not see any way that Russia might benefit from deliberately shooting down a civilian airliner.

I do not see any way how your analysis should begin with, "who benefits?"

25 posted on 07/18/2014 5:46:38 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Well, so far we have given the Ukrainians MRE’s and CIA people. I think they’re looking for a bit more support.


26 posted on 07/18/2014 5:48:49 AM PDT by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: Perdogg

Of course there is no mention in the article that the official NO FLY ZONE is over Crimea and southeastern Ukraine — south of Donetsk.

So where are they supposed to fly to get back to Kuala Lumpur???


27 posted on 07/18/2014 5:50:16 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: GBA

Around 100 Attendees Heading To Australia AIDS Conference Among Victims Of Downed Malaysia Flight
CBS ^ | July 17, 2014

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3181889/posts


28 posted on 07/18/2014 5:51:06 AM PDT by COUNTrecount (There's no there there.)
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To: Perdogg
Was Flight MH-17 Diverted Over Restricted Airspace?

My question would be who restricted it and how was the word of the restriction made known?

29 posted on 07/18/2014 5:51:37 AM PDT by Lower Deck
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bttt


30 posted on 07/18/2014 5:53:20 AM PDT by deport
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To: Uncle Chip
Who decided this was a good flight path to take? Ukrainian flight controllers?

Notice all of todays flights are avoiding the area, some by flying over Russian territory.

31 posted on 07/18/2014 5:54:19 AM PDT by McGruff (If you are foul mouthed troll don't expect a reply to your rants.)
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To: dforest

Makes one wonder about the air traffic controllers there. WOW! Is there a ‘death wish’ for an incident that would start a world war?


32 posted on 07/18/2014 5:54:42 AM PDT by Shery (in APO Land)
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To: Perdogg

Common Sense Don`ts during Wartime

1. Do not let your kids play on a beach.
2. Do not stay in your house.
3. Do not stand in the street.
4. Do not fly over a war zone.

Do`s during Wartime Bombings.

1. Leave the country.
3. Get thee to a bomb shelter
2. Dig a deep 60 foot hole


33 posted on 07/18/2014 5:56:27 AM PDT by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits n firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: Mashood

Good question, Mashood. I doubt the separatists have the same level of familiarity with the Buk/SA-17 system that the Russian and Ukrainian armies have, or that they have established safeguard protocols in place like most professional armed forces do. The separatists are at war with the Kiev government and want to shoot down Ukrainian aircraft to further demoralize the Ukrainian armed forces and reduce their will to fight.


34 posted on 07/18/2014 6:00:17 AM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: McGruff
Who decided this was a good flight path to take? Ukrainian flight controllers?

Are you for real???

The flight plan was approved by Malaysian Airlines and it shifted a little north to avoid a storm.

BTW how high were those Ukrainian planes flying when shot down???

I doubt they were at 33,000 feet or even close.

35 posted on 07/18/2014 6:06:08 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Perdogg

Not taking any sides here!!! I would say this devastating slaughter of innocents is smacking of the “hogwash” that surfaced immediately on the first Malaysian Airlines aircraft disappearance. At the tiem Obama refused to demand that USA aviation authories & investigators get involved in the investigation in Malaysia....I said this inquiry would wind up being joke and the aircraft cause, plus the aircraft itself would never be found!!! And...I was right on target!!!

I will keep my powder dry on this one too!!! IMHO...Obama will voice some words...but will do nothing meaningful, simply because he does not care....Satan never does!!! We are a long way away from finding out the real truth of this most tragic event!!! The USA is both gutlees & leaderless....that’s the problem!!!


36 posted on 07/18/2014 6:12:39 AM PDT by JLAGRAYFOX ( My only objective is to defeat and destroy Obama & his Democrat Party, politically!!!.)
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To: Perdogg

Kiev deployed powerful anti-air missile systems to E. Ukraine before Malaysian plane crash http://on.rt.com/ce150o

Hmmm.


37 posted on 07/18/2014 6:13:13 AM PDT by McGruff (If you are foul mouthed troll don't expect a reply to your rants.)
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To: 1rudeboy

Every analysis should begin with “Who benefits?” It is often the clearest path to the truth, as it frames the conflicting motives of the overt (obvious) and covert (hidden / agents provacateur) players. The evidence might point to an intentional act by either side, or to the unintended consequence by either, or to a third party. My first suspicion is that the separatists thought they were shooting at another Ukrainian military transport, especially since most civil aviation had been routed away from the area. Perhaps we’ll know one day, but perhaps we won’t.


38 posted on 07/18/2014 6:13:16 AM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: Always A Marine

The Russians don’t just hand over sophisticated weapon systems, then walk away. They provide “advisors”, whether military or civilian to assure that the systems are being used properly and are functioning properly...the information and data is accurate... Etc... Same as the US.


39 posted on 07/18/2014 6:14:27 AM PDT by Mashood
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To: Perdogg

On Thursday, when a Malaysian Airlines plane was apparently shot down over Ukraine, a Ukrainian Buk anti-aircraft missile battery was operational in the region, the Russian Defense Ministry said, contradicting Kiev’s statements.

The battery was deployed at a site from which it could have fired a missile at the airliner, the ministry said in a statement. It said radiation from the battery’s radar was detected by the Russian military

http://rt.com/news/173784-ukraine-plane-malaysian-russia/

Double Hmmm.


40 posted on 07/18/2014 6:17:25 AM PDT by McGruff (If you are foul mouthed troll don't expect a reply to your rants.)
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To: Always A Marine
Your analysis began with "who benefits?" You concluded that you "do not see any way that Russia might benefit." End of your analysis.

In fact, it's a stretch to call it an "analysis" in the first place.

41 posted on 07/18/2014 6:18:15 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Uncle Chip

As Mashood noted above, a UAF AN-26 was shot down at 26,000 feet. It would not be unreasonable for the separatists to suspect that a UAF was flying higher to avoid a similar fate. And if most other civil aviation was already avoiding the area, it might not be so unreasonable for them to suspect it was a UAF transport.


42 posted on 07/18/2014 6:18:28 AM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: McGruff

Has Russia Today come-up with a response to the audio where the separatists admit to shooting down the plane?


43 posted on 07/18/2014 6:22:58 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: ncalburt

Just curious. News sources are Putin sponsored. But you believe without critical examination audio that pops up.

There needs to be critical thought examining all of the evidence.

Not saying you are wrong, I am simply pointing out that we should not jump to the conclusion of anything other than a plane has been shot down.


44 posted on 07/18/2014 6:24:45 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
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To: dforest

Assassination? Was someone being targeted by Putin on board the plane?


45 posted on 07/18/2014 6:25:58 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike (‘You can avoid reality, but you can’t avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.’)
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To: 1rudeboy

How do you interpret my opening question with “the end” of my analysis? I have drawn no conclusion whatsoever. Very little is known at this point and additional information and disinformation from all sides is still coming in and will need to be evaluated. It would be foolish to rule out anything yet, or to make a conclusion based on so little information. More information is better than less.


46 posted on 07/18/2014 6:27:10 AM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: ncalburt

Then expect Malaysian Airlines to go out of business here very quickly with deathsuits from over 600 people coming plus the lack of consumer confidence to ever get on another Malaysian Airlines flight again.


47 posted on 07/18/2014 6:28:02 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike (‘You can avoid reality, but you can’t avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.’)
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To: Always A Marine

When you are shooting at planes that high up you are shooting blind — that AN could have been an airliner. They just got lucky with the AN and thought they would get lucky again.

If they had any degree of military intelligence they would know the when and where of military transports, but they are just stupid thug cossacks.

Now their toys have been taken away —


48 posted on 07/18/2014 6:29:48 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Always A Marine

If your conclusion did not end your analysis, good for you. I’ve seen it stop there for others.


49 posted on 07/18/2014 6:31:39 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: ncalburt

“Your using the deaths of 80 children for your Evil Putin propaganda campaign !”

I have no idea about who did what or why, but you sound like your off your med’s...


50 posted on 07/18/2014 6:35:28 AM PDT by babygene ( .)
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