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Height of Ukraine No-Fly Zone Faces Scrutiny
The Wall Street Journal ^ | July 17, 2014 | Jack Nicas and Robert Wall

Posted on 07/18/2014 3:43:03 PM PDT by McGruff

Investigators into Thursday's crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 will scrutinize a decision by Ukrainian officials this week to set the height of their no-fly zone over conflict-torn eastern Ukraine to 32,000 feet—when many ground-to-air missiles can easily surpass 40,000 feet. Flight 17 was flying around 33,000 feet over the restricted airspace before it crashed, officials said. After the crash, Ukrainian officials expanded the no-fly zone to all airspace above the region. Investigators are going to want "to hear how they determined that the risk was acceptable. [Ukrainian officials] should have done a formal risk assessment," said air-safety consultant John Cox, a former union crash investigator and safety official. Still, Mr. Cox cautioned, it is understandable that a government would believe a 32,000-foot-restriction would be safe.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: mh17

1 posted on 07/18/2014 3:43:03 PM PDT by McGruff
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To: McGruff

Putin butt-kissers rushing to make posts in an attempt to blame Ukraine.


2 posted on 07/18/2014 3:44:00 PM PDT by dirtboy
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To: McGruff

The aircraft was originally routed a couple of hundred miles to the west, which would have taken them well clear of any danger area.

A Polish controller rerouted them over the war zone, apparently to avoid thunderstorms, per other posters. Routing them a couple of hundred miles further east would have saved them.

Why didn’t the Polish controller do that, and why wasn’t that corrected by the Ukrainian controllers??


3 posted on 07/18/2014 3:48:28 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf

Maybe because they couldn’t conceive of any Russian or Russian sympathizer being stupid enough to mistake a 777 for a Ukrainian military transport plane.


4 posted on 07/18/2014 3:54:16 PM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: dirtboy

5 posted on 07/18/2014 3:54:29 PM PDT by RC one (Militarized law enforcement is just a nice way of saying martial law enforcement.)
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To: tcrlaf
Why didn’t the Polish controller do that, and why wasn’t that corrected by the Ukrainian controllers??

Relax - this mass murder will get your Russian brethren the ceasefire they were clamoring for. That will get them the breathing space to make East Ukraine part of Russia. Merkel, the former Stasi operative, appears to be following in Ribbentrop's footsteps, marching to the tune of her Russian paymasters.

6 posted on 07/18/2014 3:55:31 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: vbmoneyspender

“Maybe because they couldn’t conceive of any Russian or Russian sympathizer being stupid enough to mistake a 777 for a Ukrainian military transport plane.”

Ever seen an IL-76? At 33,000 feet?


7 posted on 07/18/2014 3:55:47 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf
And why this flight path.

Maybe go a little north.

8 posted on 07/18/2014 4:00:42 PM PDT by McGruff (If you can't make an intelligent comment don't expect a reply.)
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To: Zhang Fei

“Relax - this mass murder will get your Russian brethren the ceasefire they were clamoring for.”

Why?
The rebels have the upper hand now, and the initiative. The South Pocket is almost destroyed, Kiev is taking BIG losses, the Kolomoisky and Nazi irregular Militias have been near annihilated.

There are reports of “Rebellion problems” near Kharkov, and around Mariupol.

The LAST thing the rebels want at this moment is a cease-fire. They have Kiev on the ropes now.


9 posted on 07/18/2014 4:02:04 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf
The LAST thing the rebels want at this moment is a cease-fire. They have Kiev on the ropes now.

Sounds like a good reason for the Ukrainians to cause an incident like what happened.

10 posted on 07/18/2014 4:08:06 PM PDT by McGruff (If you can't make an intelligent comment don't expect a reply.)
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To: McGruff
—when many ground-to-air missiles can easily surpass 40,000 feet.

As a matter of fact, the only weapon the "separatists" had that could actually do that was the BUK recently imported into Ukraine by Russia, which they are currently denying they ever had in the first place, despite bragging about it before. Everything else they had ranges of maybe only half that, hence those planes were safe until the Russkies decided to take shots using bigger guns.

11 posted on 07/18/2014 4:09:07 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: McGruff; tcrlaf
Sounds like a good reason for the Ukrainians to cause an incident like what happened.

I see you pack of retards are going with the Russian Media's current line: that, actually, there is a conspiracy and that it was Ukraine that shot down the plane... assuming it wasn't actually filled with "drained" corpses!

12 posted on 07/18/2014 4:11:07 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Zhang Fei
There's no reason to believe Germany is colluding with Russia about anything...


13 posted on 07/18/2014 4:12:02 PM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: tcrlaf

I never operated a Buk missile system but I presume properly trained operators don’t rely on eyesight to identify targets. But then again, since its the Russians involved, maybe they just don’t give a damn. In either case, the fault lies not with Poles or Ukrainians or Georgians or Latvians or Lithuanians or Estonians.


14 posted on 07/18/2014 4:12:31 PM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: tcrlaf

Why?
The rebels have the upper hand now, and the initiative. The South Pocket is almost destroyed, Kiev is taking BIG losses, the Kolomoisky and Nazi irregular Militias have been near annihilated.

There are reports of “Rebellion problems” near Kharkov, and around Mariupol.

The LAST thing the rebels want at this moment is a cease-fire. They have Kiev on the ropes now.

Bob? Baghdad Bob? Is that you? From the BBC:


15 posted on 07/18/2014 4:20:59 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: McGruff

All I know is that its not my problem. My own country is on fire and the idiot sheep are happily chasing the shiny object for the media.


16 posted on 07/18/2014 4:21:11 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: tcrlaf; caww
I don't know if you've seen this but

Makes you go hmmm...

17 posted on 07/18/2014 4:21:15 PM PDT by McGruff (If you can't make an intelligent comment don't expect a reply.)
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To: McGruff

Wow — look at how close MH17 was to the Russian border.

It’s almost like the Russian overlords told the two Igors to hurry up and fire before that passenger plane gets past your war zone and over our Russia.


18 posted on 07/18/2014 4:21:21 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

God, you are an idiot...
Please link to when I have said that. You can’t, of course. You are jut doing what you do, trolling and making things up again.

Any accident, including this one, is caused by a CASCADE of factors, not just one.


19 posted on 07/18/2014 4:22:23 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: cripplecreek

Israel should be happy. While all the media is focused on this tragedy they can do what they have to do. Hey maybe the Jooos did this.


20 posted on 07/18/2014 4:25:25 PM PDT by McGruff (If you can't make an intelligent comment don't expect a reply.)
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To: cripplecreek
All I know is that its not my problem. My own country is on fire and the idiot sheep are happily chasing the shiny object for the media.

I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time. The country was in deep doo-doo under Carter, and we managed to help the Afghans bag a few Russians.

21 posted on 07/18/2014 4:27:52 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei
Your map is at least two weeks old. This is from LAST week, and even it isn't updated with the now surrounded Ukrainian units.
22 posted on 07/18/2014 4:29:27 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf
Any accident, including this one, is caused by a CASCADE of factors, not just one.

Oh I see, you must have realized that the paranoid delusional approach of Russian media can't work in this case, so you are approaching the same conclusion (Obama made the plane fly into the missile), but filtering it through a "cascade of factors" that lead to the Russkies innocently committing mass murder.

Great job you Neo-Soviet slimeball, Putin will throw you an extra Ruble. Too bad that exchange rate will screw you over if you try to spend it outside of Russia.

23 posted on 07/18/2014 4:32:16 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: tcrlaf

Nice graphics! Like an Avalon Hill board game.


24 posted on 07/18/2014 4:33:08 PM PDT by MUDDOG
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To: tcrlaf

If you can’t trust a Russia media outlet, who can you trust?


25 posted on 07/18/2014 4:33:16 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: McGruff
Israel should be happy. While all the media is focused on this tragedy they can do what they have to do. Hey maybe the Jooos did this.

If I wasn't aware of your tendency to post links to articles that talk about "Israeli false flag terrorist atacks," I would think you were being sarcastic.

26 posted on 07/18/2014 4:33:38 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Uncle Chip
look at how close MH17 was to the Russian border.

Yes it crashed near the border. My question is where was it at missile impact. How far would an airliner travel at cruising speed before crashing. I see long skid marks on the ground.

27 posted on 07/18/2014 4:34:32 PM PDT by McGruff (If you can't make an intelligent comment don't expect a reply.)
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To: McGruff

Considering the raging inferno that Obama has ignited from Pakistan to Tunisia, I don’t want Obama to do anything but go golfing......in a thunderstorm if at all possible.


28 posted on 07/18/2014 4:35:53 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: tcrlaf

Bob, what maps were you showing on Iraqi TV when GI’s were in the heart of Baghdad?


29 posted on 07/18/2014 4:37:04 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: McGruff

It didn’t fly far after being hit. The BUK launcher was right across the Russian border and that missile flies a mile a minute — so that airliner was quite close to being out of Donetsk airspace when hit.


30 posted on 07/18/2014 4:43:02 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: McGruff; Uncle Chip
Yes it crashed near the border. My question is where was it at missile impact. How far would an airliner travel at cruising speed before crashing. I see long skid marks on the ground.

Considering your intense hatred of the Ukrainians and love for Russkie media, I doubt you actually have these questions. If it was a Russkie airplane shot down by Ukrainians, you'd be frothing at the mouth and not playing the dadaist version of CSI.

The Putinist hypocrites annoy the hell out of me.

31 posted on 07/18/2014 4:43:33 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: All

CNN is doing a pretty good investigative reporting about this at the moment. I’m shocked.


32 posted on 07/18/2014 4:45:05 PM PDT by McGruff (If you can't make an intelligent comment don't expect a reply.)
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To: Uncle Chip
that missile flies a mile a minute

The missile only flies 60 mph? How could it ever catch a plane at 500mph plus?

33 posted on 07/18/2014 4:45:37 PM PDT by nascarnation (Toxic Baraq Syndrome: hopefully infecting a Dem candidate near you)
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To: nascarnation

Couldn’t have even shot down a pace car.


34 posted on 07/18/2014 4:50:00 PM PDT by McGruff (If you can't make an intelligent comment don't expect a reply.)
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Best comparison we've got


35 posted on 07/18/2014 4:52:00 PM PDT by McGruff (If you can't make an intelligent comment don't expect a reply.)
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To: nascarnation

Thanks for the correction — it actually flies a mile a second.

It took only 6 seconds to hit the plane 33,000 feet up.


36 posted on 07/18/2014 4:53:56 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: McGruff

It came down in Torez — how far is that from the Russian border???


37 posted on 07/18/2014 4:56:39 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: McGruff

It came down in Torez — how far is that from the Russian border???


38 posted on 07/18/2014 4:56:39 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
"Great job you Neo-Soviet slimeball, Putin will throw you an extra Ruble."
39 posted on 07/18/2014 5:10:59 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

To: tcrlaf

Frankly, you’d be stupid if the Kremlin didn’t pay you in dollars.


41 posted on 07/18/2014 5:37:19 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
some_text
42 posted on 07/18/2014 5:55:22 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: McGruff

Yes, saw it...also very interesting how it was brought together..

BTW thanks for all your pings......my time on FR is often late so I miss what’s been posted that is of interest to me. So I do appreciate being pinged very much.

CW


43 posted on 07/19/2014 12:59:38 AM PDT by caww
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