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The U.S. Needs a More Aggressive Response to Mr. Putinís War
Washington Post ^ | July 18 | By Editorial Board

Posted on 07/18/2014 9:42:50 PM PDT by nickcarraway

A CAREFUL listener to President Obama’s comments Friday on the destruction of a Malaysian airliner over Ukraine could discern where the president places responsibility for what he rightly called “an outrage of unspeakable proportions.”

Mr. Obama said the United States was confident that the plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile launched from an area controlled by Ukrainian separatists. He also said that the insurgents can’t shoot down planes “without sophisticated equipment and sophisticated training, and that is coming from Russia.”

What was missing from the president’s comments was a clear moral conclusion about the regime of Vladi­mir Putin or an articulation of how the United States will respond to the killing of 298 innocent people, other than by “investigating exactly what happened and putting forward the facts.” An atrocity committed as a byproduct of Moscow’s attempt to violently break apart a sovereign nation demands a firmer response.

It’s true that not all the facts are known — for example, whether Russian personnel had a direct role in manning the SA-11 surface-to-air missile system that U.S. officials say “likely” downed the plane.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: obama; russia; ukraine

1 posted on 07/18/2014 9:42:51 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

President Omoeba needs to evolve a spine.


2 posted on 07/18/2014 9:52:37 PM PDT by gasport (President Omoeba needs to evolve a spine)
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To: nickcarraway

Can’t respond with an assclown running the show.


3 posted on 07/18/2014 9:55:22 PM PDT by Busko (The only thing that is certain is that nothing is certain.)
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To: nickcarraway

Gee, you think?

I can’t believe that what we defeated under Reagan is being reassembled and that we have a nest of pro-Putin vipers on this site.

They are a disgusting lot that reminds me totally of the 60s lefties, back then I could actually enjoy visiting their coffee houses and trying to convert them from their pro-Russia views and hero worship of the anti-American/anti-West foreign leaders, but today they just make me sick.


4 posted on 07/18/2014 9:59:04 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: nickcarraway
"What was missing from the president’s comments was...an articulation of how the United States will respond to the killing of 298 innocent people..."

Really? To me it was pretty clear that our response consisted exactly of 38 seconds of commentary, followed by some Delaware jokes and two fund raisers.

Seriously, how much more *articulation* does the writer expect from a man-child whose career has been built on voting, "Present"?

5 posted on 07/18/2014 10:01:17 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Qui me amat, amat et canem meum.)
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To: nickcarraway

A verbal response is all we need. We do not need to become involved in any way with the turf war between Russia and Ukraine. We have our own turf war that needs to be addressed ASAP...our southern border.


6 posted on 07/18/2014 10:03:52 PM PDT by Dallas59
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To: nickcarraway

Barry told the Russkis that he’d be more flexible once he was reelected. Barry should use some of that flexibility and call Vlad a gunky in public. That’ll show ‘em.


7 posted on 07/18/2014 10:04:01 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (The future must not belong to those who slander bacon.)
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To: nickcarraway

All of us throughout the rest of the world should do all we can to utterly crush Russia’s economy. Putin’s incompetence has already done half the job for us.


8 posted on 07/18/2014 10:12:45 PM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: ansel12

I agree. I find myself arguing for the US on here and have to hear crap about America that these pro-Putin cranks put out. They’re the false flag conservatives who seem to think that a former KGB thug turned gangster statesman will lead us all back to a conservative world.


9 posted on 07/18/2014 10:20:41 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: nickcarraway

Personal Rule of Thumb:

If the Washington Post wants it, I don’t.


10 posted on 07/18/2014 10:42:06 PM PDT by smoothsailing
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To: Dallas59

I agree...

If Obama is goaded into an aggressive response to Putin he will bungle it just as he bungles everything else.

Putin is a complex and evil man with a lot of raw intelligence. As an evil dictator I’m afraid Obama just doesn’t measure up.

Obama could parlay a tragedy into WW3.

Getting into a shooting war with Russia with an America-hating POTUS at the helm would be our final nightmare.


11 posted on 07/18/2014 10:42:17 PM PDT by Bobalu (Israel is the most long-suffering and peace loving nation on Earth.)
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To: Bobalu
If Obama is goaded into an aggressive response to Putin he will bungle it just as he bungles everything else.

He's beaten the tar out of every enemy since he's been president. From his perspective, I don't think it's a bungle.

12 posted on 07/18/2014 10:45:56 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: elhombrelibre
I'm not sure why the pro-putin bunch keeps backing him up.

Frankly, they don't really say what is behind their support, other than a lot of gibberish based on fears of another cold war. (which I consider normal)

I think it could be Putin's actions against his own Islamic nut cases. They might admire it.

The Stories they are posting however, are of a more dubious nature that I believe to be Russian Agitprop.

13 posted on 07/18/2014 10:50:07 PM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: Tau Food

~All of us throughout the rest of the world should do all we can to utterly crush Russia’s economy. Putin’s incompetence has already done half the job for us.~

Do you want it to revolve back into a communist country? They have enough internal resources to be in odds with the rest of the world, given the authorities would be able to cut toilet paper and quality shoes from the rest of population. Being under sanctions is a gift for authorities in a situation like that, they can halt reforms grab resources and blame the West for all the pain.


14 posted on 07/18/2014 10:55:45 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: wetphoenix

Russia is not really much better than a communist country with Putin in charge; he’s just a gangster statesman embracing ultra-nationalism for demagogic reasons. Sure a lot of people are duped by him, many even on this site (not mentioning any names, but they’re always here to present the Putinista point of view), but his reestablishment of the Soviet empire and support for communism in Cuba, the Iranian mad mullahs and their nuclear weapons program, etc., show he deserves our contempt and no cooperation. Screw Putin and let the chips fall where they may for the Russian people until they show us that they don’t want Putin as President for Life and that they want to join the civilized world.


15 posted on 07/18/2014 11:08:13 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: elhombrelibre

~his reestablishment of the Soviet empire and support for communism in Cuba, the Iranian~

Do you see a difference between ideology and geopolitics?

It is clear to me that Russian rapprochement with Cuba and Iran is not a signal that Russia has any common values with any of them.

~Screw Putin and let the chips fall where they may for the Russian people until they show us that they don’t want Putin as President for Life and that they want to join the civilized world.~

I see. You might be one of people who thinks ISIL running wild in the Middle East is a good idea too. Screw tyrant Assad, viva el-Caliphate?


16 posted on 07/18/2014 11:28:40 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: wetphoenix
So you like Putin's ideology and you're willing to put up with his geo-politics to achieve the ends you desire? Is that what your point is? What is it about the rise of Putin's power that you approve of?

I believe Putin's done more to bring ISIL control of parts of Syria and Iran into existence than any other world leader aside from Assad and al Maliki.

17 posted on 07/18/2014 11:44:16 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: Cold Heat

I haven’t had much freep time in the last two days; can you tell me if anyone here is pro Putin and his killing of everyone on that flight?? Anyone here pro Putin on that?


18 posted on 07/18/2014 11:45:09 PM PDT by Yaelle
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To: nickcarraway

Let’s free Cuba.


19 posted on 07/18/2014 11:51:57 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: nickcarraway

Screw that. A big war with 0bama in charge would turn out worse than 0bama leading healthcare reform.


20 posted on 07/18/2014 11:56:44 PM PDT by Southack (The one thing preppers need from the 1st World? http://tinyurl.com/ktfwljc .)
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To: elhombrelibre

~So you like Putin’s ideology and you’re willing to put up with his geo-politics to achieve the ends you desire? Is that what your point is? What is it about the rise of Putin’s power that you approve of?~

There is more freedom in Russia under Putin and more opportunities. It was basically a failed state before him.

Other things about him I don’t like.

~I believe Putin’s done more to bring ISIL control of parts of Syria and Iran into existence than any other world leader aside from Assad and al Maliki.~

I’d like to learn your perspective if you say so.


21 posted on 07/19/2014 12:07:56 AM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: All

I am commenting without the benefit of detailed intel reports, but my guess is that Putin has miscalculated by giving these pro-Russian forces weapons that were meant to create problems for the Ukraine and not for civil aviation.

He is probably chewing out the idiots who did this right now over a secure phone line, or one that he thinks is secure anyway. Some boffins at NSA are probably attentively transcribing it now. Then Obama can bungle the situation later.


22 posted on 07/19/2014 12:17:17 AM PDT by Peter ODonnell (Sectarian warfare -- no dog in that hunt)
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To: wetphoenix

Putin’s support to Assad assured that no peaceful transition was possible during the early days of protests against Assad’s tyranny. Gradually, Assad used terror tactics (sharp shooters shooting from roofs at peaceful demonstrators (like Putin’s picked president Viktor Yanukovych did in imitation in Kiev) to marginalize the mostly peaceful and democratic opposition. Putin and Assad pursued a scorched earth policy demonizing all who opposed them as al Qaeda (sounds familiar to Ukraine. 2% of the Ukrainians voted for the fascists, yet Putin’s propaganda wing still claims all of the Ukrainians opposed to Putin’s takeover are Nazis). Into the chaos of Assad and Putin’s special brew in Syria, the real Islamist demons, al Qaeda, stepped with the same uncompromising mindset. Despite Assad’s long history of supporting al Qaeda, especially when they were killing Americans in Iraq, al Qaeda turned on Assad. Assad’s lust for power for his own personal ends, like Putin’s own lust, could not do what was best for Syria and assure a smoothed transition away from socialist/monarchy. Putin made that intransigence possible and he too is a president for life type. Putin is never going to permit civil, democratic government because he’s opposed to that form of life. Both Putin and Assad prefer to fight al Qaeda than to support free people. I believe in fighting al Qaeda and supporting the rule of law, civil government, a free press, freedom of religion (not Putin-approved Ultra Orthodox priests being paid to puppet the Putin line), private ownership of property (not crony capitalism), and a freedom that allows multi-party democracy.


23 posted on 07/19/2014 12:30:57 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: elhombrelibre

~Putin’s support to Assad assured that no peaceful transition was possible during the early days of protests against Assad’s tyranny.~

Peaceful transition to whom?


24 posted on 07/19/2014 12:33:38 AM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: nickcarraway
He's beaten the tar out of every enemy since he's been president. From his perspective, I don't think it's a bungle.

An Obama supporter. That explains a lot. Your hero did a great job in Libya, Egypt, Syria and Iraq. All out of his control now. In fact Egypt wants Obama and Hillary arrested.

25 posted on 07/19/2014 12:35:32 AM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: wetphoenix

You appear to think everyone opposed to Assad is al Qaeda. That’s the same logic Putin uses in Ukraine. The bulk of the Ukrainians are not fascist. Back when there was a peaceful opposition in Syria it was not an al Qaeda operation. Only Assad and Putin would have characterized it that way.


26 posted on 07/19/2014 12:45:39 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: elhombrelibre

~You appear to think everyone opposed to Assad is al Qaeda.~

No. You got it all wrong. Assad has plenty of opposition, but only al-Qaeda is any relevant as far as the rest aren’t determined enough to have an upper hand.

~That’s the same logic Putin uses in Ukraine. The bulk of the Ukrainians are not fascist.~

Of course, most of Ukrainians aren’t fascists and it is true that not everyone in the east of Ukraine are commies.
The problem is Ukraine is even in worse state than Russia in terms of civil society.
For that reason they are fascist who are the most visible. And before Poroshenko was elected their interim government was dominated by fascists.
You have to give new government credit, they have managed to eradicate some of the worst, but Poroshenko is still a slave of the Maidan crowd and he has jumped an anti-Russian wagon though Putin was ready to de-escalate.

~Back when there was a peaceful opposition in Syria it was not an al Qaeda operation. Only Assad and Putin would have characterized it that way.~

See my point one. No said societies have an idea of social consensus you got used to. You are thinking they are same as fellow Americans and your idealism is so romantic but it is too far from reality on the ground.


27 posted on 07/19/2014 1:03:07 AM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: nickcarraway
Putin Spies Obama Working Out


28 posted on 07/19/2014 3:43:25 AM PDT by Fear The People (When the government fears the people, you have LIBERTY.)
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To: Yaelle

I have not seen anything like that. Don’t really expect to.


29 posted on 07/19/2014 7:35:35 AM PDT by Cold Heat (Have you reached your breaking point yet? If not now....then when?)
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To: Yaelle

Yes Putin has his supporters including a Russian that signed up here to promote him, and there are defenders of Putin over this civilian airliner being shot down.

Reagan is rolling in his grave.


30 posted on 07/19/2014 10:14:17 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: wetphoenix

Well no one thought the Germans and Japanese would ever become democratic either.


31 posted on 07/19/2014 10:31:55 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: elhombrelibre

~Well no one thought the Germans and Japanese would ever become democratic either.~

Well, German tradition of representative small government dates back to thousand years ago and the Japanese are famous for rationalism and adopting successful models from someone else.


32 posted on 07/19/2014 5:19:24 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: wetphoenix
Considering that Germany was not a nation "thousand year ago" I don't know what you mean. It'd probably come as a surprise to all the Kaisers, the princes, and various other petty autocrats that the Germans had a tradition of small government. And as for Japan and rationalism, there wasn't a hint of democracy in their willingness to adopt successful model for their government form anyone else until GEN MacArthur whipped out a new constitution for them to live under at the end of WWII.

I still maintain that the path for democracy in either country was not inevitable and not one most people would have thought likely in 1940.

33 posted on 07/19/2014 11:39:05 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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