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Russian Media Blame Ukraine For Plane Disaster
TIME ^ | July 18, 2014 | Charly Wilder

Posted on 07/19/2014 8:48:25 AM PDT by 1rudeboy

Edited on 07/19/2014 8:59:24 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

One common theory: Ukraine was trying to shoot down Vladimir Putin's plane

In televised comments this morning, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that responsibility for the tragic downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 on Thursday lay with “the government of the territory on which it happened.” He stopped short of directly blaming the Ukrainian military for launching the missile – but Russia’s many state-controlled media outlets have been only too happy to do that for him. On Friday morning, as the world tried to make sense of the crash in separatist-controlled Ukraine, the Russian spin machine was already doing damage control. Gruesome images of the wreckage were splashed across this morning’s papers under headlines blaming Kiev for the attack.

“The leadership of Novorossiya considers the destruction of the liner a planned provocation by Kiev,” wrote daily Izvestia, in its lead news story, employing the resurrected term used frequently in Russian media to describe the region of Eastern Ukraine stretching from Odessa to Donbass.

The theory that seems to be making the most traction throughout Kremlin-backed media is that the Ukrainian military shot down the passenger jet, either as part of a sinister plan to frame the separatists and galvanize the West against Russia, or alternately, after mistaking the Malaysian jet for a plane transporting Putin, who was on his way back to Moscow from Brazil. Citing the Interfax news agency, Kremlin-funded network RT described the similarity of the flight paths of MH17 and the presidential plane above a split-screen graphic intended to show the visual similarities between the two aircraft. Many Russians have taken to Twitter and Facebook both to voice their sympathy for the victims and often, to echo the theory that it’s all Ukraine’s fault.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: mh17; squirrel
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1 posted on 07/19/2014 8:48:25 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Obama and Merkel are breathing a big sigh of relief that it will be impossible to do a investigation of the downing of MH17. If there is no official conclusion then they will not have to put any real sanctions on Russia. Putin wins. Our leaders have no interest in confronting Russia..and I guess most of our voters don’t want to either.


2 posted on 07/19/2014 8:53:14 AM PDT by Oldexpat
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To: 1rudeboy
after mistaking the Malaysian jet for a plane transporting Putin, who was on his way back to Moscow from Brazil.

It makes perfect sense - planes traveling from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur follow the same flight path as planes traveling from Brazil to Moscow.

3 posted on 07/19/2014 8:53:43 AM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: Oldexpat

So they’re just going to double-down on this?

My understanding is that all the human remains and the plane fell in Separatist territory, and they won’t let anyone come in to investigate except their own people or Russians proper, and they’ve already taken the black box to Moscow.

So it appears they’re going to hide the facts and lay the blame n the Ukrainian government.


4 posted on 07/19/2014 8:56:09 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: 1rudeboy

I realize that the president wants to blame all our woes on Putin. But I still haven’t seen what harm he’s done to this country, and haven’t seen any threats from him either. In fact, his foreign policy seems to make more sense than ours - we support the Syrian rebels, who actually DO THREATEN Americans, he doesn’t. Just one example.

So I guess I just won’t join the chorus, but others are welcome to bash him, because we all need an enemy these days.


5 posted on 07/19/2014 9:01:07 AM PDT by BobL
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To: BobL

What’s an Iranian nuclear reactor, here and there?


6 posted on 07/19/2014 9:06:45 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

All this proves is Russia has a state run media just like we do.


7 posted on 07/19/2014 9:07:51 AM PDT by teletech (Say NO to RINOS!)
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To: Alas Babylon!

Yeah, but it won’t work, nobody will believe them except maybe China and Iran. No worries there.
What a mess. Par for the course these days.


8 posted on 07/19/2014 9:09:00 AM PDT by dforest
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To: teletech

I guess that makes it ok, then. /s


9 posted on 07/19/2014 9:10:07 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Well the world has judged the opposite


10 posted on 07/19/2014 9:12:18 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Oldexpat
Obama and Merkel are breathing a big sigh of relief that it will be impossible to do a investigation of the downing of MH17. If there is no official conclusion then they will not have to put any real sanctions on Russia. Putin wins. Our leaders have no interest in confronting Russia..and I guess most of our voters don’t want to either.

I think you are likely correct.

11 posted on 07/19/2014 9:12:28 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: 1rudeboy

“What’s an Iranian nuclear reactor, here and there?”

I hear you, but the president is in the process of cutting a deal to PROTECT their reactors. I refuse to follow him off that cliff either.


12 posted on 07/19/2014 9:18:07 AM PDT by BobL
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To: teletech

They should change their names to ABC or NBC.


13 posted on 07/19/2014 9:21:53 AM PDT by bray (Palin/Bibi 2016)
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To: BobL
and haven’t seen any threats from him either

You need to get your eyes checked


14 posted on 07/19/2014 9:29:04 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: canuck_conservative

“You need to get your eyes checked”

Links? And no, if we’re trying to operate in his backyard he has every right to defend himself.


15 posted on 07/19/2014 9:31:29 AM PDT by BobL
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To: BobL

Defend himself by blowing an innocent plane out of the sky?

Explain that logic.


16 posted on 07/19/2014 9:34:24 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: canuck_conservative

“Defend himself by blowing an innocent plane out of the sky?”

Still waiting for links...please show me where Putin ORDERED that plane to be shot down.

I’m tired of people parroting the president.


17 posted on 07/19/2014 9:36:44 AM PDT by BobL
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To: 1rudeboy

Taking soetoro lessons.


18 posted on 07/19/2014 9:46:45 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: onedoug

The opposite, actually. Barry is taking lessons from Vladi. Vladi knows how to do it.


19 posted on 07/19/2014 9:49:46 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: BobL
and haven’t seen any threats from him either.

Sure, if you don't count Putin's support of pretty much every world enemy we have - whom he either funds, protects at the UN, etc.

Putin's Russia is a pretty big fan and supporter of socialist Venezuela, communist Cuba, Islamist Iran's effort to become a nuclear state, and the list just goes on and on.

Also he just had a hand in shooting down a civilian airliner by at minimum providing the heavy anti-air weapons and/or training necessary to accomplish this. And before you defend him with cries of "no proof", this follows Putin's seizing the Crimea from the Ukraine while all the way claiming its forces weren't in that territory at all (which was a laughable lie).

I don't get you Putinista's? Is it the gay thing? Is that it? He opposes the homosexual agenda and you think that is enough to warrant your support? You know who else opposes the homosexual agenda? Countries like Iran and pretty much every other backward Islamist hellhole from Africa through the Middle East. So they get one thing right, even the worst countries in the world do a few things that a person could point to and say "well, at least that is right", or "at least that works".

You are lending support to Putin, a guy who thinks the greatest tragedy of modern times it he collapse of the communist Soviet Union. I wonder what Reagan would think of your support of Putin, considering all the blood and treasure he spent destroying the very thing Putin bemoans was lost.

20 posted on 07/19/2014 9:51:37 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: BobL

Same as if Putin puts a gun in some kook’s hands, kook kills someone, then Putin says “well I didn’t kill anyone”

Legally, the “puppetmaster” is as liable as the “puppet”

Putin’s fingerprints are all over this one ... if he’s so innocent, why was the launcher quickly withdrawn to Russia in the middle of the night??

Open your eyes dude


21 posted on 07/19/2014 9:52:27 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: Longbow1969

You have a point regarding Iran, but we’re not any better there, refusing to take action and tying Israel’s hands. So, yes, he could be better.

As far as the other despots go, I don’t see much different in our hemisphere than when Bush was president...same dictators...no effort to get rid of them.

The airliner - that system has been deployed since 1979. Ukraine DEFINITELY had it when the Soviet Union broke up. It’s VERY POSSIBLE that the rebels (who are former soldiers) had their own when they broke away. I’m just not jumping to conclusions yet on this one.

By the way, the Middle East would be a MUCH BETTER place right now for Christians, if Putin’s, rather than Hillary’s, policies had been followed.


22 posted on 07/19/2014 10:01:19 AM PDT by BobL
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To: canuck_conservative

“Putin’s fingerprints are all over this one ... if he’s so innocent, why was the launcher quickly withdrawn to Russia in the middle of the night??”

How the hell do you know it was withdrawn to Russia? You saw a YouTube video of a launcher on the highway?

Jeeze, I guess it doesn’t take much to fool conservatives - our stupid party was trying to slam Amnesty down our throats by telling us it was our ONLY HOPE to be viable in the future...and we nearly bought it.


23 posted on 07/19/2014 10:03:16 AM PDT by BobL
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To: 1rudeboy
Putin like King Obama, someone else did it. Nothing new here.
24 posted on 07/19/2014 10:08:24 AM PDT by Logical me
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To: BobL
You saw a YouTube video of a launcher on the highway?

Well we know you did, on the thread posted by free_life 1/2 hour ago, which you already jumped on .... forgotten already?


25 posted on 07/19/2014 10:12:54 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: 1rudeboy

I was sorta believing it was Russias fault until I saw Juan McCain and Peter the boy who cried Wolf blathering on and on about what a horrible human being Putin is. Those two guys are the last guys on the planet you ever want to believe about anything! Sorry but the fact still remains that Russia has nothing to gain and everything to lose for taking down a civilian airliner. Until somebody can come with a clear motive for why Putin would blast a civilian airliner out if the sky, I am going to ignore all the talking heads for now. BTW, Putin just signed an agreement with 3 other countries the other day to start a new reserve currency. That is usually grounds for either politcal or physical assassination.


26 posted on 07/19/2014 10:14:33 AM PDT by rwoodward ("god, guns and more ammo")
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To: canuck_conservative

“Well we know you did, on the thread posted by free_life 1/2 hour ago, which you already jumped on .... forgotten already?”

I saw it, that’s why I commented. A person could post a picture of a truck on some highway and say it’s full of explosives and will blow up a Tea Party event...doesn’t mean there’s an ounce of truth to it.


27 posted on 07/19/2014 10:14:53 AM PDT by BobL
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To: BobL
You have a point regarding Iran, but we’re not any better there, refusing to take action and tying Israel’s hands. So, yes, he could be better.

Well Israel, who has the most to lose here, begs to differ. The US is at least making some attempts to slow or stop Iran's nuclear development effort, Russia is actively supporting it. Big difference. Israel may not think the US is doing near enough, but they certainly prefer our position over the Putin one since he is actively helping them.

As far as the other despots go, I don’t see much different in our hemisphere than when Bush was president...same dictators...no effort to get rid of them.

Despots come and go, yes. There is a huge difference between doing too little and actively supporting them. The US does too little these days for sure, Russia actively assists them. It is hard for me to believe you can't see the difference.

The airliner - that system has been deployed since 1979. Ukraine DEFINITELY had it when the Soviet Union broke up. It’s VERY POSSIBLE that the rebels (who are former soldiers) had their own when they broke away. I’m just not jumping to conclusions yet on this one.

Are you spending your time reading RT or something? Come on man, denying that Russian supported thugs (ie, separatists), at a very minimum, shot this civilian airliner down is to be wearing multiple sets of blinders. It isn't hard to see where this shot came from and it was pretty obviously terrorist controlled territory. These are Russia's allies, whom they support with heavy weapons and training. The man ultimately responsible is Putin as he is determined to continue destabilizing a country that wants to look to the West and get OUT of Russia's orbit (and before you shout "fascists!", Right Sector only got 2% of the vote in Ukraine - they are not a significant bloc). Or are you one of these people that believed Putin when he said his forces weren't in Crimea? Seriously now, no one believed that and the end result proved he was lying all along.

By the way, the Middle East would be a MUCH BETTER place right now for Christians, if Putin’s, rather than Hillary’s, policies had been followed.

Yes, because a nuclear Iran - and the Islamic arms race that would follow - would be great for Christians. Putin is not some defender of Christianity in the Middle East, despite what he and his propaganda organs may claim from time to time. Putin supports whoever will buy weapons from him and support Russian foreign policy (which is mostly about opposing the US/West and creating a "multipolar" world). That is why they will support both a religious fanatic state like Iran AND a more secular run government like Assad's (not to mention Russia's only foreign navy base is in Syria).

28 posted on 07/19/2014 10:19:57 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: Longbow1969; Admin Moderator

“this follows Putin’s seizing the Crimea from the Ukraine”

This sounds pretty good if you WILLINGLY forget that a violent coup happened in Kiev immediately before that. One thing leads to another.

” don’t get you Putinista’s? Is it the gay thing? Is that it”

What is with the insults? Can’t defend your position without Jr. High-level name calling? Since when was that allowed on FR?

Most of us understand that Putin is a cold, calculating SOB. A Cold, Calculating SOB who has been enabled by Obama’s incompetence and weakness. Both Palin and Romney tried to warn people like you what was out there, but you chose Obama, instead.

That doesn’t mean you get to forget the facts of this situation, or get to throw around childish insults.


29 posted on 07/19/2014 10:21:55 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: canuck_conservative

“Same as if Putin puts a gun in some kook’s hands, kook kills someone, then Putin says “well I didn’t kill anyone””

You mean like Obama and ISIS?
You mean like Obama and Fast&Furious?
Welcome to International Geopolitics...


30 posted on 07/19/2014 10:23:59 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Longbow1969

“Come on man, denying that Russian supported thugs (ie, separatists), at a very minimum, shot this civilian airliner down is to be wearing multiple sets of blinders.”

I NEVER said who did or didn’t shoot down the plane. I only noted that, despite what we’re being spoon-fed, these weapons have been in Ukraine for DECADES and I really doubt that we know exactly who has which units.

Again, unless Putin, or the Russian military command, ordered the plane to be shot down, then Putin did not do it - no more than Germany attacked Pearl Harbor, since they were allies with Japan at the time.


31 posted on 07/19/2014 10:26:38 AM PDT by BobL
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To: tcrlaf
Most of us understand that Putin is a cold, calculating SOB. A Cold, Calculating SOB who has been enabled by Obama’s incompetence and weakness.

But you would have us to believe that he had nothing to do with Ukraine until the Maidan protests began.

32 posted on 07/19/2014 10:29:05 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: rwoodward
Sorry but the fact still remains that Russia has nothing to gain and everything to lose for taking down a civilian airliner. Until somebody can come with a clear motive for why Putin would blast a civilian airliner out if the sky, I am going to ignore all the talking heads for now.

Few people are really suggesting they knowingly shot down the civilian airliner. What almost certainly happened is Russian supported separatists or Russia supported separatists with direct Russian operational support shot down the plane by mistake. Several Ukrainian planes including transports had been shot down by Russian supported forces within just days of this, it is almost certain they thought they were shooting down another Ukrainian military transport plane and simply used terrible targeting judgment.

BTW, Putin just signed an agreement with 3 other countries the other day to start a new reserve currency. That is usually grounds for either politcal or physical assassination.

This is crazy conspiracy stuff. There is no threat to the US or West because Russia is attempting to create some new reserve currency. No one cares and despite endless claims, the US dollar will continue being the worlds reserve currency. It sounds like you may be a regular on InfoWars, RT or believing too much of what you read on ZeroHedge (which while interesting tends to be the ultimate bear doom and gloomer financial page out there).

33 posted on 07/19/2014 10:32:04 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: BobL

I think I’ll check out now. My goal was to get people to start questioning authority, and I’ve succeeded.


34 posted on 07/19/2014 10:32:28 AM PDT by BobL (u)
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To: tcrlaf
You mean like Obama and ISIS? You mean like Obama and Fast&Furious?
Was it wrong, or not?

You mean like Obama and Fast&Furious?
Was it wrong, or not?

And how do the either of the two above make anything else less wrong?

35 posted on 07/19/2014 10:32:32 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: BobL
My goal was to get people to start questioning authority, and I’ve succeeded.

I fired-off a check to Easter Seals on your behalf, so that's something.

36 posted on 07/19/2014 10:33:51 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Bovine excrement....

Yet again, you just make things up. Of course Russia is/was/always will be involved in Ukraine. They share a thousand mile border.

To ignore everything that happened up to and during the coup, just because it might make your cause look bad, isn’t only disingenuous, it is outright lying....

This civil war is BECAUSE of that coup. What did you think was going to happen? The roses and happy riches that the Eurmaidan propaganda portrayed?


37 posted on 07/19/2014 10:34:48 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf
” don’t get you Putinista’s? Is it the gay thing? Is that it”

What is with the insults? Can’t defend your position without Jr. High-level name calling? Since when was that allowed on FR?

What insult? That is the real reason why some people use to justify supporting Putin. Because Putin opposes the homosexual agenda he has won some limited support in traditional/social conservative quarters. My point was simply because he gets one thing right, doesn't make him worthy of support. Remember that Iran and most Islamic countries also actively oppose the homosexual agenda, that does not make them countries we should support either.

38 posted on 07/19/2014 10:36:25 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: Longbow1969

Tweet from BBC Foreign Correspondent Fergal Keene:

Militiaman says 2 me, your only here because foreigners are dead. Where were u when our kids were being killed?


39 posted on 07/19/2014 10:39:06 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf
To ignore everything that happened up to and during the coup, just because it might make your cause look bad, isn’t only disingenuous, it is outright lying....

Making me wonder why you do it.

40 posted on 07/19/2014 10:39:55 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: tcrlaf

BobL, I think you got your accounts mixed up.


41 posted on 07/19/2014 10:43:52 AM PDT by Agog
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To: tcrlaf
This civil war is BECAUSE of that coup

There would be NO "civil war" were Russia not supporting the separatists with weapons and training. And even with that support the separatists have been largely pushed to the Russian border where the core of them remain with the most Russian backing. The anti-air and heavy weapons Putin is providing is the very thing that prevents this "civil war" from ending - and what led to the shooting down of this civilian airliner.

And weren't you one of the people complaining endlessly about Right Sector fascists? This group got next to nothing in terms of votes in the last election. They are minor, insignificant force that got a whopping 2% of the vote.

42 posted on 07/19/2014 10:46:14 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: 1rudeboy

It is Ukraine’s fault; if they weren’t trying to protect their national sovereignty the “separatists’ wouldn’t be motivated to perpetrate such acts! They learned that propaganda lesson from the Palis.


43 posted on 07/19/2014 10:48:33 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Love me, love my guns!©)
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To: 1rudeboy
Just more incompetence from Putin. Having demonstrated his incompetence in handling the Russian economy/political system and having demonstrated his incompetence in foreign relations, he now takes a stab at public relations.

Another swing and a miss for Putin.

44 posted on 07/19/2014 10:50:51 AM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: Longbow1969

“There would be NO “civil war” were Russia not supporting the separatists with weapons and training.”

Bovine excrement....

Well before that, there would be no civil war if the elected government hadn’t fallen in a violent coup, after early elections had already been called, then members of that same coup government calling for the destruction of the minority culture and language in Ukraine.

Seriously, what did you think was going to happen? The minority was just going to sit there and take it?

YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS. Why the lying?


45 posted on 07/19/2014 10:55:37 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf
Well before that, there would be no civil war if the elected government hadn’t fallen in a violent coup

"Well before that" is OVER. We are talking about the here and now you and seem to want to avoid discussing that. There would be NO "civil war" in Ukraine NOW if the nation of Russia under the leadership of Putin were not actively supporting, with weapons and training, these separatists. Period. Heck, some of the leaders of these "separatists" probably aren't even from the Ukraine at all. It looks pretty clear many of them are Russian military/intelligence personnel from Russia itself.

The Russian backed separatists you seem to support just shot down and killed 298 innocent civilians in a commercial airliner. Stop living in the past. This happened NOW. This happened because Putin's Russia has been giving, and possibly helping operate, sophisticated anti-air weapons to these separatists.

Whatever happened in the past, however angry you are about it, there is no doubt the "civil war" would long be over if Russia would stay out of the Ukraine and let them move forward.

46 posted on 07/19/2014 11:14:29 AM PDT by Longbow1969
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To: 1rudeboy

I am thinking this was Putin’s plan. To take down a civilian passenger jet over Ukraine and then claim Ukraine was attempting to take down Putin’s plane and got the passenger jet instead. Putin would be the hero and Ukrainians the terrorists. Well it backfired on Putin and hopefully this will be the act to take down his house.

That BUK unit is back across Russian border now and I think the number one reason is it has active duty Russian military personnel manning it.


47 posted on 07/19/2014 11:19:14 AM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: Longbow1969

Excellent post to blind backyard Boob...ahh Bob


48 posted on 07/19/2014 11:26:27 AM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: BobL
By the way, the Middle East would be a MUCH BETTER place right now for Christians, if Putin’s, rather than Hillary’s, policies had been followed.

The dead Christians in Georgia can't ear ya! You going to blame that on Hillabeast? Oh yea I forgot another one of them backyard problems Putin has every right to invade ...ahh I mean deal with...geez your a shitehead!

49 posted on 07/19/2014 11:31:43 AM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: BobL

It was clearly a BUK missile unit in that photo as a seen in a video. How many of those do you think were in rebel held territory and being trucked yesterday?


50 posted on 07/19/2014 11:37:27 AM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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