Skip to comments.IRS gives full account of lost Lerner emails
Posted on 07/19/2014 10:41:07 AM PDT by Innovative
The IRS declared under oath and penalty of perjury on Friday that Lois Lerners hard drive is irrecoverable after being wiped clean by tech staff and recycled with an outside contractor, according to a court filing.
(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...
Your computer can crash, but your emails are safe on the servers.
Why isn't someone looking on the servers?
The nonsense that they are only kept for six months on the servers at the IRS is beyond ridiculous.
We have to keep our tax returns for seven YEARS and they only keep emails for six months?!
Why aren't Republicans and Fox News shows, not to mention CONGRESS, pointing out this painfully obvious FACT?
We shouldn't care about her hard drive at all.
Not to mention that hard drives are also backed up daily -- everything on the hard drive can be recovered immediately from the servers.
‘Why is the news media keep reporting it this way, ignoring the FACT that emails are NOT stored on people’s personal computers but on servers which are also backed up.”
Excellent point and beats the poop out of me. Of course, IRS emails may only be stored on the hard drives, they are insular, but your point is VERY well taken.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” ~ Voltaire
no more taxes then.
why should we pay for incompetence?
The media thinks by reporting the facts prematurely they kill the story ignoring the facts that impeding the facts pisses us off!
“IRS gives full account of lost Lerner emails. Yeah, that’s the ticket,” said Tommy Flanagan, IRS spokesman in his first gig since appearing as the Pathological Liar on SNL.
I once told my (then) 9 or 10 yr old son to pick up your room ...
He DID ...
and put it all under the bed and in the closet
More than one person better see Prison over this.
I’ll take “nobody” for $1000, Alex.
If they can’t even say for sure where their equipment is, how can they say for sure where their data is, or isn’t?
“IRS emails may only be stored on the hard drives”
Even before the 9-11 attacks, emails of all companies and government are backed up. This increased significantly to the point of having them backed up in multiple geographically different locations as well — and especially for major government organizations, such as the IRS!
Fitting quote.....the later part is coming...
The IRS should be judged by it’s own rules.
If I declared my hard drive lost or irrevocably damaged, the IRS would deem me to be guilty of the worst case scenario tax exposure wise.
I say judge those closest to the hard drive fiasco to be guilty of the worst case scenario crime wise.
We need to defund the IRS. Come up with an alternative way of collecting taxes that doesn’t require 97.5% of the IRS staff, implement it, and be done with it.
Obviously, because they have been told that these emails are not to become public. One excuse is as good as another...
Yeah, that's the ticket ...
I heard an IT guy on FOX say that all these IRS people also had Blackberries that would have contained the same emails.
The penalty must be death for crimes agains the Republic
Are they admitting they have her old drive?
If so, they are lying about it being irecoverable.
If it is irrecoverable they De-Mil’d the drive.
That is, it was written over at least 7 times using various methods.
“We smashed it and the others up good”
They need to Stalinsplain the effort by Ms. Lerner to skirt transparency in this matter by seeking instant messaging (and other?) non-archived means of communication.
The EPA is on record illegally using private email accounts to conspire against political enemies.
How about the IRS?
* ALINSKY’S RULE 3: Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)
Blackberries do have limited storage — they, as the computers access the servers, from where they download the emails they want to read, but that doesn’t impact their staying on the servers, unless they are DELIBERATELY DELETED.
how can they say for sure .. WHAT their data says ?
There oughta be a law — Oh, wait, there is.
The “full account” is to restate the excuse?
what a ridiculously deceptive headline...
how about the state collects the taxes, cuts a percentage check to Sam and everybody just walks away
“Honest teacher! The dog ate my homework, and he puked some of it back up. But it must have tasted good to him, because he went and ate seven other kid’s homework.”
Anyone involved in this conspiracy is a felon.
Anyone who believes the story is a fool.
Anyone who has seen federal contractor’s requirements for data security, access, backup, etc. knows the redundancy and audit trail that are required, just as Uncle Sam requires them of himself - mostly because redundancy of equipment and procedures equals redundancy of staffing i.e. more federal workers to vote Democrat.
The point is that the fed’s own standard practices make this story even more preposterous.
Some clever Congressman should solicit IT volunteers to recover the e-mails the IRS says it can’t or won’t produce. The volunteers will sign non-disclosures since the IRS will predictably cite taxpayer privacy. When a flood of consultants much smarter and motivated than the fed’s cube critters are set loose on the project let’s see what happens next.
Technically a hard drive that crashes is destroyed, NOT wiped and recycled.
Where emails are stored depends on the architecture of the email system. Typical consumer email systems which provide web access store the emails on the server. Systems using IMAP or Microsoft's MAPI protocols typically keep the emails on the server. But on systems using the POP3 protocol emails are downloaded from the mail server to the system running the mail reader and are either immediately or some time later deleted from the server.
So if Ms. Lerner and her fellow IRS employees used POP3 protocol mail readers, then it would be possible that the mail did not exist on any server within a few days of the receipt of the email. Of course either backups of the local email files, or some other email retention strategy should have been in place as required by law. And the idea that the IT folks in the IRS are so inept as to not have backups of their systems is while possible, not likely.
Needless to say both the decision to destroy the hard drive's contents, and to delete or write over backups once an investigation was underway seems highly irregular.
“Ill take nobody for $1000, Alex.”
Coulda sworn I saw Nosmo King do it.............
“Under oath” don’t mean squat to establishment government bureaucrats or RATs but I repeat myself.
It seems IRS has records going back to 1791, but couldn’t keep Lerner’s emails for more than six months!
Records of the Internal Revenue Service [IRS]
(Record Group 58)
It was wiped clean, recycled, given to an outside contractor who then hit it numerous times with a sledge hammer and threw it into an active volcano.
“So if Ms. Lerner and her fellow IRS employees used POP3 protocol mail readers, then it would be possible that the mail did not exist on any server within a few days of the receipt of the email. Of course either backups of the local email files, or some other email retention strategy should have been in place as required by law.”
Be serious — we are not talking about someone’s home emails, we are talking about the IRS!
Sponsoring FReepers are contributing
$10 Each time a New Monthly Donor signs up!
Get more bang for your FR buck!
Click Here To Sign Up Now!
If she was using POP3, then she wouldn’t be able to check her email anywhere other than where she happened to be logged into. I imagine someone as high up in the IRS as Lerner travels quite a bit. Even if she was using a PST file, she’d have to have it in a central server location so she could access it from other IRS locations.
My exact thought after having to call the IRS this past week. The employees were either completely rude or obtuse beyond imagination. We desperately need to take the IRS down and flatten out our tax code. These people should not be living off our dime.
I’m not against it in principle, but it seems to me an agency would need to be present in each state for enforcement.
I lean more along the lines of a national income tax. If the general withholding were done away with, this would appeal to me.
The individual would instantly no longer be scrutinized. Each citizen would pay sales tax on non-essentials. Food, medicine, medical services, and medical equipment should be exempted.
I believe housing should also be exempted, at least for the primary residency.
I’m sure some folks could tweak this better than I have here, but my essential goal is the completely slice off the IRS or any follow-on agency.
That “Voltaire” guy sounds like a smart fellow.
asking a lot of a kid to pick up his room..
considering it’s connected to the house. that’s a lot of weight to lift!
I’m telling ya, they are going to the records of all those in the IT department trying to find a republican.. Once they do.
That poor guy is dead meat..
When an individual is charged with a crime they are innocent until proven guilty. I assume this is partly because on one side you have a person and on the other you have the entire weight of government with its policing powers, infinite financial ability to prosecute, persecute, hound, jail, fine and so on. The balance of power is not balanced. THEREFORE, perhaps there should be a law which dictates that when the government is accused of wrongdoing against a citizen or citizens, the reverse is the case: GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT...and for the same reason. With their vast powers should come the burden of proving they did NOT break laws which harm citizens. They have the ability to prove their innocence, had they done their due diligence for which they are well-paid. It should be on them and if they can’t show their innocence because of missing documentation then it is assumed, or should be, that they have guilt. (Taking into account you can’t prove a negative and so on). Maybe I haven’t thought this through and I am thinking nonsensically, but at the moment it sounds right.
PST files can be stored on the local. If you lose your hard drive they can be lost. If it is important these files also will be backed up somewhere. Banks and other financial companies are required by FDIC to keep a record of all e-mails for many employees. HIPPA has laws the require the keeping medical records and some e-mails. Both these laws include criminal prosecution of those deliberately of negligently destroy e-mails records. This includes both the people the e-mails belong to and the IT personal that maintains the e-mail system.
The IT issues in government are massive. Look at Bradley Manning. Who would give a SPC 4 access to diplomatic traffic that has nothing to do with his/her job? Setting limits to access is one of the principals of IT security. I am getting ready to transfer and the IT loser in my office want to burn all my stuff to a CD. All my stuff is on a server and evidently he can't migrate it for me. Insane.
The only way any of these crooks would ever go to jail is if the “people” sentenced them.
The judicial authorities need to explore that level of the technology which the IRS uses.
The central point is that a hard drive is a piece of machinery and it is NOT — in itself — interesting. No one is REALLY interested in Lois Lerner’s hard drive. So, finding out the specific details of what happened to her hard drive is not (necessarily) a decent answer to the subpoena.
What is wanted is information about her EMAILS. Now, if the fact is that the emails only resided on that hard drive, then knowing the fate of the hard drive has relevance. But before we reach that conclusion, we do need to know the architecture of the email system.
A techie from the IRS needs to go under oath and explain how the IRS email works. A broad, technical explanation at the organizational level. That discussion isn’t about Lois Lerner, and it’s not about a specific hard drive which may or may not have been recycled on a specific date.
From the standpoint of the architecture of the IRS email system — WHERE do the emails reside?? Because the law says the IRS needs to keep them, and if their architecture really depends on emails being stored in a decentralized fashion on thousands of individual hard drives, then I would be AMAZED.
The House investigators HAVE to start putting heat on people so they will start turning on each other. Right now, they have no incentive because Holder sure as heck isn't going to prosecute.
Gentlemen, this IRS offensive Lerner defense is targeted not toward us, who know something; it's targeted to those over there, toward the great mind-washed, who know nothing!