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As The West Declines, Russia Fills The Vacuum
Telegraph (UK) ^ | July 19, 2014

Posted on 07/19/2014 3:19:17 PM PDT by Steelfish

As The West Declines, Russia Fills The Vacuum The Coalition has no foreign policy and no solutions to offer in the growing chaos of a world without moral leadership

By Janet Daley19 Jul 2014

Presumably there are at least a few politicians in the great Western capitals who have some idea of how to get a grip on the current global chaos.

Perhaps at some point they will let us know what it is. At the moment, all that we are getting is banalities and obfuscation, which seem to be a cover for total panic. Apart from the obvious words of condolence and horror over the shooting down of a civilian airliner, no one seems to have anything meaningful to say about an incident that could have the diplomatic significance of the sinking of the Lusitania.

Russia, which is clearly either directly or indirectly responsible for this criminal act (or criminally negligent mistake), seems to be technically hysterical. Unlike the Western leaders who were initially almost entirely lost for words, it responded instantaneously with a flood of frantic lies. First, there was the preposterous claim that it was the Ukrainian military that had fired the missile. This led to a serious and absurd discussion in the West of whether or not the government in Kiev actually possessed weaponry capable of such an act.

In fact, the question that should have been asked is: why on earth would the Ukrainians shoot down an aeroplane that, even if it was mistaken for a military transport carrier, would have to have been assumed to be their own? Then the inexhaustibly inventive Vladimir Putin insisted that the downing of this plane had to be the responsibility of the “state over which it happened”.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: bhorussia; deathofthewest; putinsbuttboys; russia; surrendermonkeys; ukraine
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1 posted on 07/19/2014 3:19:17 PM PDT by Steelfish
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To: Steelfish

Shooting down passenger planes.....wretched way to “fill the vacuum.”


2 posted on 07/19/2014 3:24:14 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: Steelfish

Libs and lefties always wanted that kind of world...now they will have one with mini Hitlers running each every “free socialist” state.


3 posted on 07/19/2014 3:28:03 PM PDT by Dallas59
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To: Steelfish

Russia has BECOME the West.

No matter how clumsy their management of international affairs and foreign relations may be, Putin is still immeasurably much better at the game than the Current Occupant now squatting in the White Hut, in the territory once known as “the United States of America”.

Khrushchev was right, when he said “we will bury you without firing a shot”, but not exactly in the way he meant it at the time.

Vladimir Putin has convinced us to destroy ourselves. And in our destruction, the Russian Bear becomes the paragon.


4 posted on 07/19/2014 3:31:21 PM PDT by alloysteel (Most people become who they promised they would never be.)
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To: Steelfish
As a child, I witness what the Russians did to East Germany .
I am not shocked by these blood thirsty savages like Putin and there bottomless thirst for power using any means.

Putin was assigned to help the Stasi torture and control its enslaved citizens at any means available.

That fact the Russian military and its Mercenaries shot down a civilian plane than strip the plane victims of there wallets and jewelry and clothes
and then trashed the crash site and stole the black boxes and then shot at the people trying to retrieve the bodies left to rot in open fields for 2 days were all orders directly from Moscow and Putin.

The man is a monster and Butcher .
The nut-jobs posters cheering him here needed to be removed.

5 posted on 07/19/2014 3:32:02 PM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: Steelfish

Nobody is truly strong right now. 6 of 10 Russians have a serious alcohol problem and they’re corrupt. Even the animals in China are corrupt, and they’ve built millions of housing units in ghost cities. Europe is corrupt and broke. South America doesn’t know how corrupt they are. The US govt is corrupt, massively in debt and unresponsive to citizens.

God gonna press the reset button in time.


6 posted on 07/19/2014 3:37:21 PM PDT by lurk
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To: BenLurkin

It is no more just to blame Putin for MH17 than it would be to blame Reagan for Iran Air 655.


7 posted on 07/19/2014 3:38:28 PM PDT by null and void (If Bill Clinton was the first black president, why isn't Barack Obama the first woman president?)
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To: Steelfish

“Presumably there are at least a few politicians in the great Western capitals who have some idea of how to get a grip on the current global chaos.”

They created this chaos and have no intention of stopping until their goals are reached.

All anyone had to do was watch these people at that Mandela funeral to get a glimpse of the character of these “leaders”.

By that I mean it puked me out watching them paying no attention, snickering, and taking selfies. It was awful watching Moochelle seethe as Barry giggled with that Danish lady{I guess she was Danish even though she behaved more like a tart.)

Imagine a war with political hacks and moral reprobates at the helm. Ugh

Obama is totally poll driven and only interested in his real backers, the far left with the big bucks. He will do nothing that would be frowned on by them.


8 posted on 07/19/2014 3:40:19 PM PDT by dforest
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To: null and void

Very similar incidents in some ways — but the differences between the two are greater than the similarities.


9 posted on 07/19/2014 3:41:45 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: null and void

How dare to compare a blood thirsty monster like Putin to Ronald Reagan.

Are you this clueless ?

Putin is a KGB sociopath who sent these Russian Mercanaries to Ukraine to the crash site to destroy evidence remove the black boxes .

These same Russian scum looted the dead and shot at the rescuers .

Your comparing our President to a KGB thug who Worked eith Stasi in East Germany to torture people trying to escape to the West!


10 posted on 07/19/2014 3:45:09 PM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: null and void
Read all about what the vile Russians are doing!

Now they are removing bodies to hide evidence along with the black boxes to Russia.

The KGB thug Putin was not involved in this ! Please ! A fly dies not exist in Russia unless Putie allows it.

Russia is a one party dictatorship like China !

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697538/MH17-eyewitness-accounts-emerge-horror-unfolded-crash-site.html

11 posted on 07/19/2014 3:58:08 PM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: ncalburt
I didn't.

I'm not.

He is.

It's not clear that Putin ordered that the site be looted and 'sanitized'. Source please? (Not that I doubt he would, it is Putin, after all!

It's also not clear that the looters are actually Russian nationals and not ethnic Russian Ukrainians. Source please for that too.

Putin and Reagan for all their assorted faults and virtues are both patriots, both sought to make their respective countries ascendant.

One Reagan is worth a hundred Putins, and one Putin a hundred obamas.

Neither Reagan nor Putin ordered nor had foreknowledge of the shoot down of a passenger airliner with 290+ souls on board.

To that degree, neither are directly to blame for those losses.

12 posted on 07/19/2014 3:58:47 PM PDT by null and void (If Bill Clinton was the first black president, why isn't Barack Obama the first woman president?)
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To: Steelfish

A Hoover?


13 posted on 07/19/2014 4:06:02 PM PDT by SkyDancer (If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed)
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To: null and void
There are many differences.

In the case of Iran Air flight 655 we made radio challenges to the aircraft and received no response before firing on it. There is no evidence that MH17 received any warning they were about to be fired upon.

We thought Iran Air 655 was an enemy fighter jet, but the Russians thought MH17 was a Ukrainian transport plane, not a fighter or a bomber.

When our aircraft carrier fired on Iran Air 655, it had just been attacked by Iranian gunboats. The Russians who shot down MH17 were not provoked by any Ukrainian attack. Ukraine has not attacked Russia.

In 1988 we were not invading Iran, like Russian forces have invaded Ukraine. Our forces were in the Persian Gulf for defensive, not offensive purposes. Russian forces have invaded Ukraine for the purposes of hostile conquest.

14 posted on 07/19/2014 4:14:09 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: ncalburt
Now they

"They" are identified in the article as pro-Russian rebels. Not FSB or Spetsnaz Russians.

When debris from an air disaster lands in an active combat zone, there is going to be chaos.

An air disaster, even without the added stresses of an on-going armed conflict, even without the added complication of a shoot-down (either deliberate or accidental) is going to be messy.

The images The Daily Mail published are surprisingly orderly, under the circumstances, and given the sensationalistic nature of press coverage.

15 posted on 07/19/2014 4:15:28 PM PDT by null and void (If Bill Clinton was the first black president, why isn't Barack Obama the first woman president?)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
So, Putin was personally responsible?
16 posted on 07/19/2014 4:18:09 PM PDT by null and void (If Bill Clinton was the first black president, why isn't Barack Obama the first woman president?)
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To: null and void

Putin is responsible for his operation invading Ukraine, and you probably shouldn’t be trying to convince us that our U.S.Navy and President Reagan did the same thing when the U.S.S. Vincennes shot down the Iranian Airliner, it was a quick decision mistake, but during a true and justified military operation.

“”On 3 July 1988, Vincennes, under the command of Captain Will Rogers III, fired two radar-guided missiles and shot down an Iran Air Airbus A300 civilian airliner over Iranian airspace in the Strait of Hormuz, killing all 290 passengers and crew on board. According to Captain Rogers, they were being attacked by eight Iranian gun boats. Vincennes was defending itself from this attack when the plane was shot at with two Standard missiles. Crucially, the Vincennes misidentified the Iranian Airbus as an attacking F-14 Tomcat fighter aircraft.””


17 posted on 07/19/2014 4:22:18 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: null and void

He is responsible for sending his soldiers into Ukraine for the purposes of hostile conquest, so yes, he is responsible for what they did.


18 posted on 07/19/2014 4:22:20 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: null and void

Neither did it make sense for Assad to use chemical weapons further justifying his removal from power.

Not sure what Russia has to gain by intentionally downing an international flight.


19 posted on 07/19/2014 4:22:29 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: null and void
Who are trying to fool here,
I am tired of the sick games you Putin groupies are playing here!
The news stories are backed up with what Putin and evil thugs did and
you are defending these monsters !

You compared a Monster who is a KGB agent who spied on Reagan during the Trip to Moscow to our great President !

Sick !

The Men in black masks running around the crash site are Russian military!

They stole the black boxes and sent them to Moscow !
The same Russian military black mask monsters are preventing people from removing the dead for 48 hours on orders from Moscow!

The head of the Phony Ukraine movement is Russian military and these thugs are Chechen Mercenaries .

I am sick of the twisted sickos who are acting like Russian KGB collaborators posting this nonsense here.

Fox News reported the missile launchers were dragged back to Russian borders.

But, No matter the evidence you crazed Putie KGB groupies will defend this monster !

You sick collaborators would be singing another song if you and your family members did not experience the love and leadership Putin Showed his East German victims in Dresden
in the 1980 ‘s.

20 posted on 07/19/2014 4:25:02 PM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: ansel12

Quite the opposite. Reagan was NOT responsible for the downing of Iran Air 655, except in the most abstract sense, as the commander is responsible for all the actions of all the men under his command.

In both cases a civilian airliner was flying through an active combat area, was misidentified as a legitimate target and shot down.

Sometimes sh!t happens.


21 posted on 07/19/2014 4:32:44 PM PDT by null and void (If Bill Clinton was the first black president, why isn't Barack Obama the first woman president?)
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To: Gene Eric
Not sure what Russia has to gain by intentionally downing an international flight.

Me neither. Putin is not noted for subtlety, or stupidity.

22 posted on 07/19/2014 4:35:12 PM PDT by null and void (If Bill Clinton was the first black president, why isn't Barack Obama the first woman president?)
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To: ncalburt

How we in the West cheered the fall of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in 1991!

“Churches are popping up across Russia faster than mushrooms after a spring rain!”

And now we are surprised & appalled by Russian savagery in Ukraine. The key crash evidence is spirited off to Moscow, the missile battery that killed 300 innocents rolls back into Russia in plain view, and Putin asks a shocked world,

“So, what’s your point?”

Russians never embarked on their spiritual journey to the West and the world just became a much more dangerous place.

American leadership in the midst of the pit of this enormous crisis is zero, absolute zero.


23 posted on 07/19/2014 4:35:17 PM PDT by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: null and void
Russia's invasion of Ukraine is an illegitimate war crime and therefore Putin is complicit with the atrocity he is an accessory to. Putin is a war criminal and a genocidal mass murderer who must be executed for his crimes.

Your comparison of him to the hero Ronald Reagan is disgraceful and you should be ashamed, if you had a conscience. Putin and Reagan are complete opposites and are nothing alike at all!

24 posted on 07/19/2014 4:37:18 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: ncalburt
The man is a monster and Butcher . The nut-jobs posters cheering him here needed to be removed.

The Putin boyfriends on FR are pathetic. Sometimes good for a laugh, but still pathetic.

25 posted on 07/19/2014 4:43:55 PM PDT by Dagnabitt (Amnesty is Treason. Its agents are Traitors.)
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To: null and void

Not the opposite, the American military and their Commander in Chief accepted responsibly for the incident while the U.S Navy was under attack.

Putin is in the middle of committing a crime of invading a peaceful neighbor, and is trying desperately to cover up his men shooting down a civilian airliner.

You are for some reason taking a path of supporting the enemy, since the free world is evidently still under threat from the militant and empire focused Russians.


26 posted on 07/19/2014 4:44:09 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Putin, for all his many many many flaws is at least a patriot. Putin is in my mind not an opposite to Reagan, he is an opposite to obama.

In the wide multidimensional spectrum that makes a human, Putin and Reagan share a few leadership characteristics, that does not make them close, does not make them bestest buds, does not make them both someone I'd want to associate with (Reagan YES!!! Putin... well... no, never).

Does that mean I'd like to hang out with Putin's polar opposite, obama? Ummm, no, although the word hang might be in there somewhere.

Don't read too much into my post. ALL I'm saying is that Putin does not have direct personal culpability for this particular incident.

He has plenty of other blood on his hands that he is directly accountable for.

And he did set the stage that allowed this to happen, but he didn't order the murder of innocent civilians this time.

Besides, like Nixon, he can legitimately be held accountable for the cover-up!

27 posted on 07/19/2014 4:52:36 PM PDT by null and void (If Bill Clinton was the first black president, why isn't Barack Obama the first woman president?)
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To: ansel12

Yes.

Yes.

No.


28 posted on 07/19/2014 4:54:24 PM PDT by null and void (If Bill Clinton was the first black president, why isn't Barack Obama the first woman president?)
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To: Gene Eric

Russia probably regrets the the aggressiveness that led them to shoot down a civilian airliner from 33,000 feet, but they did deliberately shoot one down in the 1980s.

Putin was KGB then, and Reagan was our President and leader of our side.


29 posted on 07/19/2014 4:56:16 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: null and void

Sure, that is what you are arguing for on this thread, Russia.


30 posted on 07/19/2014 4:57:40 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: ansel12

Not quite. I’m arguing for blame where due.


31 posted on 07/19/2014 5:03:16 PM PDT by null and void (If Bill Clinton was the first black president, why isn't Barack Obama the first woman president?)
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To: null and void

You sure are, and with great dedication.


32 posted on 07/19/2014 5:07:57 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: elcid1970
What is your !

Putin stopped the Russian from getting freedom and set up a dictator. Putin is a dictator who sent over his blood thirsty Russian mercenaries. and his military to destroy the Ukraine because it would not crumble!

He caused this nightmare!

Look at the lives he destroys .
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2698169/Dog-breeder-father-two-Surrey-eighth-Briton-named-victim-shooting-MH17.html

This are regular people and Putin caused this hell for them.
IT could of been you or a love one that has a black masked Russian soldier mercenary ruffling thru there wallets for cash and holding rescuers at gun .point.

33 posted on 07/19/2014 5:10:49 PM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: null and void

Look at the photos of the innocent people your bloody dictator killed .

Love those black masks on the Russian troops in the Ukraine !

Are you happy for Putie !
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2698169/Dog-breeder-father-two-Surrey-eighth-Briton-named-victim-shooting-MH17.html


34 posted on 07/19/2014 5:13:47 PM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: ansel12; null and void
"Not the opposite, the American military and their Commander in Chief accepted responsibly for the incident while the U.S Navy was under attack."

I've spent a great deal of time with men who were on board Vincennes at the time, and I feel justified in saying that all responsibiliy for incident lay solely with the airliner.

35 posted on 07/19/2014 5:15:41 PM PDT by Wyrd bi ful ard (Asperges me, Domine, hyssopo et mundabor, Lavabis me, et super nivem dealbabor.)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd; null and void

That’s perfectly fine and probably accurate, but I didn’t want to get into the tall grass on that, I just wanted to point out that it has nothing to do with this tragic act of aggression.


36 posted on 07/19/2014 5:21:57 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: null and void

“Don’t read too much into my post. ALL I’m saying is that Putin does not have direct personal culpability for this particular incident.”

That’s a ridiculous comment. It’s all but impossible for the separatists to have operated the SA-11 system without Russian training. It’s all but impossible that they even had the system at all unless the Russians gave it to them. And it’s highly questionable whether there’s been enough time since hostilities began for the Russians to train insurgent knuckleheads to actually use it. The fact that an easily identifiable commercial airliner was shot down instead of another military transport is the only thing that keeps me from believing this was done by idiot separatists rather than the Russians themselves. In any case, the responsibility for this falls directly onto the Putin regime absent an absolutely magnificent false flag operation run by the Ukrainians(which is kind of a tough sell given that the separatists were peacocking about the hit on the internet moments after the plane went down.


37 posted on 07/19/2014 5:40:11 PM PDT by Blackyce (French President Jacques Chirac: "As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure.")
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To: Blackyce

should read: “ keeps me believing this was done by idiot separatists rather than the Russians themselves.”


38 posted on 07/19/2014 5:41:17 PM PDT by Blackyce (French President Jacques Chirac: "As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure.")
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To: ncalburt
>>>>>As a child, I witness what the Russians did to East Germany <<<<<

Perhaps payback for what Germans did to Russia in WWII.

From the tone of your voice one could not conclude Nazism was defeated for good.

39 posted on 07/19/2014 5:46:20 PM PDT by DTA
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To: null and void

Once again- your mumbly, mumbly, mumbly, returns. Good grief.


40 posted on 07/19/2014 5:51:15 PM PDT by RedHeeler
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To: ncalburt

I was picturing Putin asking the arrogant question “So what’s your point?” to a shocked & outraged world.

FWIW, I was for a short while a Putin groupie when I compared him to the conceited and feckless Obama.

But as of now Putin has revealed himself to be a monster no different than the Soviet air marshal who told a shocked world in 1983 about KAL 007 shootdown, “We would do it again.”

Something becomes dangerously amoral about Mother Russia these days.


41 posted on 07/19/2014 6:02:27 PM PDT by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: null and void

Putin crushes dissent at home just as he crushes freedom abroad. Is that the act of a patriot? Was Stalin a patriot? Putin said that Stalin’s purges were not as bad as the USA’s war in Viet Nam. Would a true Russian patriot try to justify Stalin’s barbarous communism? When a Russian tv station made fun of Putin, the station’s owner had to flee Russia and the government took over the station. Today Putin’s government controls practically the entire Russian media. When the head of the biggest Russian oil company wanted to sell a stake in his company to Exxon, Putin sent him to Siberia and nationalized the company! After terrorists attacked a Russian school, Putin seized the opportunity to abolish the election of all regional governors, and now he personally appoints them! If an American president did these things, would you call him a patriot? If Putin is a patriot, then Obama must be a patriot too, since he is trying to do to America what Putin has already done to Russia! Putin is not a patriot in any sense of the word. He is an unrepentant, unreformed Soviet imperialist! He has looted the Russian nation of billions to become one of the richest men in the world. He lives in stolen opulence while his people languish in squalor! He is nothing but a criminal and a thug and he is the tyrant that Obama only dreams of becoming.


42 posted on 07/19/2014 6:10:53 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Hmmm. You sure about that?


43 posted on 07/19/2014 6:14:06 PM PDT by RedHeeler
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To: Steelfish

drivel


44 posted on 07/19/2014 6:20:01 PM PDT by bert ((K.E.; N.P.; GOPc.;+12 ..... Obama is public enemy #1)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

All that is true about Putin, but he wouldn’t kill the majority demographic of ethnic Russians if he could. Obama would kill every white American dead in a heartbeat if he could then sit down and have a toast over some wimpy light beer with Holder.


45 posted on 07/19/2014 6:46:50 PM PDT by The Toll
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To: Steelfish

The West didn’t decline - it committed suicide.


46 posted on 07/19/2014 7:53:15 PM PDT by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Still bitterly clinging to rational thought despite it's unfashionability)
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To: BenLurkin
I agree the Iranian Airliner incident is much different, but people have short memories for things the US media didn't dwell on.

An Italian I worked with unloaded on me over the US shooting an Italian Airliner down and I had to admit the media here pretty much let it slide other than a quick mention of the accusation. Did the US media go along with covering that up like the guy claims or is that and Italian conspiracy theory?

A Korean guy I worked with got all worked up and pissed at the US after KAL 007 went down because he said the US regularly flew intelligence aircraft above or below KAL flights on the same headings because of their routes and we hadn't cared much when Russia shot down a another KAL flight that went off course few years earlier. He had a friend who died in that incident. Did we do what he claimed or is that a Korean conspiracy theory?

I don't really know much about either incident and haven't bothered to dig into either other than finding the above links to what I think are the right incidents I recall because of someone I worked with being very interested in them. I don't know if the people who unloaded on me about them are right or not but they’re good examples of a fact people need to consider.

When the US and Euro media all have their panties in a wad over anything but what someone they identify right up front as a Republican, Conservative, or Christian, (especially the media as it's been orchestrated since His Majesty King Barry took the throne) there's a lot more to the story than meets the eye. The US and Euro media machines are past masters at making damn sure the public either doesn't hear about what they don't want heard and at burying something in plain sight by trivializing it as unimportant or not related.

The Separatists are responsible, period. All the trash about Russia and Putin being responsible is just more of the same from the same slick propaganda of the sort that portrays the Kiev Coup government as the good guys when they're nothing but a coalition of thugs no different than the thug they threw out.

Anyone who says, "if Putin didn't arm them, blah, blah, blah" better think again. The Ukraine Army either surrendered the unit that was used intact to the Separatists or abandoned it in working order rather than taking steps to disable if they didn't have the brains and discipline to blow it up outright before abandoning it.

Considering how easily they make fools of those who "don't trust the media", democrat media is more powerful than ever.

They don't even have to raise a sweat to hide things like when blogging was new and bloggers wanted to be good investigators instead of being known for their opinion pieces. Now false flags are everywhere known to attract conservatives and the Conservative take on things is as often as not nothing but trivial infighting. Just wait for any election, individual or incident the media want framed a specific way to hit the news then check out the user-names that are suddenly active when they've been dormant for a long time, even for years. Not all the people on the bandwagon, by any means, but an large enough percentage of them to be interesting have been dormant at least since the same sort of thing was last in the news.

Times they are a changin' and web forums are leading the way this time, not bloggers. Think for yourself. You may well be wrong and the bandwagon crowd may prove to be right, but at least you'll avoid being trained to drool when the media rings the dinner bell.

JMHO

47 posted on 07/19/2014 8:07:59 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin

If your conspiracy is that the US shot down an Italian passenger DC-9, then why did Italy file against France in 2008, claiming that they shot it down?


48 posted on 07/19/2014 8:26:24 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: null and void

It’s not clear that Putin ordered that the site be looted and ‘sanitized’. Source please? (Not that I doubt he would, it is Putin, after all!


Russia runs the Donestsk People’s Republic. All it’s leaders are Russian national FSB or GRU intelligence agents. And Putin doesn’t not know what is going on there? With Russian heavy weapons and Russian troops? You are spinning quite a fairy tale there.


49 posted on 07/19/2014 8:31:29 PM PDT by lodi90
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To: ansel12
Typical, "your conspiracy", something no one who read what I wrote and can comprehend what they read would never have tossed out.

Well, unless they're a dedicated propagandist or BS artist of some sort.

50 posted on 07/19/2014 8:34:30 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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