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Cameron Warns Putin Over Crash
The Daily Mail Online ^ | July 19, 2014 | Press Association

Posted on 07/19/2014 4:54:40 PM PDT by Uncle Chip

David Cameron has raised the prospect of further sanctions against Russia as the West's relations with Vladimir Putin grew increasingly strained following the apparent shooting down of flight MH17 over Ukraine by pro-Moscow separatists.

In a sign of a hardening attitude, David Cameron said Europe and the West must "fundamentally change our approach" unless the Russian president alters course.

The comments came after a day which saw the Government adopt a tougher approach to Moscow, with Russia's ambassador summoned to the Foreign Office and Philip Hammond claiming Mr Putin was not doing enough to use his influence over the rebels in Ukraine.

The US and EU had ratcheted up sanctions against Russia shortly before the aircraft was brought down with the loss of 298 lives, but Mr Cameron indicated that an even tougher regime might be required.

Writing in the Sunday Times he said: "We must establish the full facts of what happened. But the growing weight of evidence points to a clear conclusion: that MH17 was blown out of the sky by a surface-to-air missile fired from a rebel-held area.

"If it is the case, then we must be clear what it means: this is a direct result of Russia destabilising a sovereign state, violating its territorial integrity, backing thuggish militias, and training and arming them.

"We must turn this moment of outrage into a moment of action."

That action must go wider than just bringing those responsible to justice, he said ...

Experts from the Metropolitan Police are due to arrive in Ukraine today to assist in the grim task of recovering, identifying and repatriating the bodies of those killed.

A team of six investigators from the Air Accidents Investigation Branch is already in the country, working with international counterparts...

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: europeanunion; mh17; russia; unitedkingdom

1 posted on 07/19/2014 4:54:40 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

OOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooohhhh.

More SANCTIONS!!!! How HORRIBLE!!!!! I can hear Putin’s knee’s knocking already!!!! (Or is that his laughter?)


2 posted on 07/19/2014 4:59:19 PM PDT by ZULU (Go REDSKINS!!! Impeach Obama!!!)
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To: Uncle Chip

Cameron’s threat sounds very Obamaesque.


3 posted on 07/19/2014 5:00:26 PM PDT by keat
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To: ZULU

Cut the Russians off the the international banking system and watch the Russian economy crash and burn within 30 days. Putin will come to heel or his gangster friends will kill him.


4 posted on 07/19/2014 5:01:52 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: Uncle Chip

These people need to get their lies straight. Putin is arming separatists. Is this worse than Obama arming Mexican gangs, Syria and Libya rebels? Obama has helped overthrow leaders of countries. If Syrian rebels had shot down a passenger plane would the UK be calling for sanctions against the United States?


5 posted on 07/19/2014 5:05:15 PM PDT by plain talk
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To: Lurker

They will just buddy up closer to China either over or under the table.


6 posted on 07/19/2014 5:10:20 PM PDT by VanDeKoik
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To: Uncle Chip
We shot down an Iranian plane. Did anybody put sanctions on us?

My sense is that we covertly agitated in the western Ukraine to get the legitimately elected president removed and who knows what else?

There is plenty of blame to go around and why can't we mind our own business? Normally it doesn't seem very smart to provoke nations that can really hurt us with nukes and advanced weaponry. I wish I felt there were cooler heads prevailing in Washington.

7 posted on 07/19/2014 5:11:10 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Aliska

We shot down an Iranian plane. Did anybody put sanctions on us?
My sense is that we covertly agitated in the western Ukraine to get the legitimately elected president removed and who knows what else?

There is plenty of blame to go around and why can’t we mind our own business? Normally it doesn’t seem very smart to provoke nations that can really hurt us with nukes and advanced weaponry. I wish I felt there were cooler heads prevailing in Washington.

____________

common sense. None of our business.


8 posted on 07/19/2014 5:13:55 PM PDT by Chickensoup (Leftist totalitarian fascism is on the move.)
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FReepers! Let's go!
Every donation counts!



9 posted on 07/19/2014 5:25:30 PM PDT by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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To: Chickensoup; Aliska
We shot down an Iranian plane. Did anybody put sanctions on us?

We admitted it immediately, allowed the Iranians access to the wreckage and the bodies, assisted in the recovery, and paid reparations to the airline and the families.

Do you expect any of that from Putin???

10 posted on 07/19/2014 5:25:59 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

In fact he has threatened Putin with a “good bitch slapping” if they ever happen to meet and Putin is on his death bed.


11 posted on 07/19/2014 5:29:22 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (Could Warren Buffet's oil trains be considered mobile Jihadist weapons of mass distruction?)
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To: Uncle Chip

We admitted it immediately, allowed the Iranians access to the wreckage and the bodies, assisted in the recovery, and paid reparations to the airline and the families.

Do you expect any of that from Putin???

____________

No we behaved like Americans. He behaves like Russians. Big difference.


12 posted on 07/19/2014 5:39:09 PM PDT by Chickensoup (Leftist totalitarian fascism is on the move.)
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To: ZULU

“More SANCTIONS!!!! How HORRIBLE!!!!! I can hear Putin’s knee’s knocking already!!!! (Or is that his laughter?)”

You need to read Post #4 Again!


13 posted on 07/19/2014 5:45:34 PM PDT by vette6387
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To: Uncle Chip
All I personally remember were some female bodies floating in fairly clear water. It seemed like they had been pretty lavender or pink burqas, saris, what they wear is called. It was heart rending. Later now I have read that we admitted, apologized, didn't know about the reparations but seems fitting.

No I expect Putin to deny deny unless he gets backed into a corner and it comes down to the lessser of a bunch of evils for him. We have to find out just what kind of missile shot down that plane though, seems obvious but things aren't always what they seem and we wouldn't necessarily be told.

I don't know what he'll do. He's not somebody that is easy to read. I see him trying to look pious lighting a candle in a Russian church, then divorcing his wife for a younger chick and the excuse it wasn't a church wedding. The wife "didn't like to fly." OTOH he handled a ccouple crises about as well as I could hope under the circumstances, the theater with the black widows wearing bombs and the Beslan school tragedy.

I guess I will register my disappointment that maybe we had a chance to get along better and blew it. He did try to tip us off about those bombers and I don't know exactly what words were exchanged, but my impression was we arrogantly ignored him and were unappreciative.

I don't like him in photos with no shirt doing things you'd ordinarily keep your shirt on unlike swimming or water sports. He's vain, proud of his physique, doesn't look attractive to me.

Seems silly, but I miss the gentle manners of the last czar even though they say he was a bad leader. Such beauty and grace, there is no modern comparison in any royal court today imo.

14 posted on 07/19/2014 5:50:01 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Uncle Chip

The only way these remarks from the highest levels of the United Kingdom might hurt Vladimir Putin is if he dies laughing at them.

While the U.S. is a strong country whose president has, unfortunately, chosen to respond to foreign crises by acting like a mouse, Britain really IS a mouse.

Not only has Britain no power to hurt Russia, Vladimir Putin could bring Britain’s economy to its knees in about five minutes by requiring Russia’s billionaire oligarchs residing in the U.K. to transfer their enormous bank accounts out of Britain and into Russian banks.

Britain’s prime minister really should try to keep his foolish saber-rattling thoughts to himself or the world might lose confidence in him, causing the British pound to collapse even without Putin’s direct efforts.


15 posted on 07/19/2014 6:02:55 PM PDT by Bluestocking
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To: plain talk

~These people need to get their lies straight. Putin is arming separatists. Is this worse than Obama arming Mexican gangs, Syria and Libya rebels? Obama has helped overthrow leaders of countries. If Syrian rebels had shot down a passenger plane would the UK be calling for sanctions against the United States?~

I guess it is a rhetorical question. Should Putin arrest Cameron next time a British jihadi is captured in Dagestan plotting against Russian military and civilians?


16 posted on 07/19/2014 6:05:23 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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‘This is the vapour path of the rocket which hit the Boeing,’ insisted Ukrainian intelligence chief Vitaliy Naida.

Two days earlier, Snizhne itself was hit by missiles from what the rebels say was a Ukrainian warplane in an attack that shattered homes, killing 11 people.

It is understood the rocket that downed the jet on Thursday was fired from a BUK launcher, a sophisticated surface-to-air missile system requiring months of training to use.

Jonathan Eyal, of the UK defence and security forum the Royal United Services Institute, said: ‘They [the rebels] could not have used this system without direct Russian involvement.’

Yesterday the Ukrainian government said it had proof that Russia had supplied the rocket launcher.

It said three of the devices crossed the border into Russia on Friday, less than ten hours after the jet was blown apart.

Discussing the picture, Dr Eyal said: ‘The smoke trail is consistent with the trail that would be produced by a BUK missile ten seconds after launch, perhaps a little less.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2698689/The-trail-death-Moment-surface-air-missile-fired-MH17-blowing-plane-apart-mid-air-killing-298-people.html#ixzz37y2EedvM


17 posted on 07/19/2014 6:21:07 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: plain talk
the separatist line is pure crap.A hoax.
Putin has unleashed the Russian military swat teams and Paid Chechen mercenaries.
They are the thugs in black that swept into Crimea and now are assigned to this Ukraine region.
They are Russian military and Chechens that have been shooting down planes for weeks.
Did you ever read up on what the WW II Russian army did went it was unleashed on Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Germany!
These creatures were robbing the dead passengers in the fields.
18 posted on 07/19/2014 7:01:38 PM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: wetphoenix

You a Russian poster / Putin propagandist / collaborator who signed up here Match 19 2014 is allowed to lie and spin for this KGB monster !
Unreal.


19 posted on 07/19/2014 7:05:29 PM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: Bluestocking

The importance of the finance industry to UK GDP is overstated, it is about 10% of GDP and only a fraction of that is due to billionaire Russian oligarchs. Cyprus might have had something to fear from the divestment of Russian money, but Britain can more than afford to cut this gangster state off, and the way things are going, its more like, can Britain afford not to? London is a popular playground for Russia’s powerful elite, and it would certainly have more of an effect than any Russian boycott would have on Britain.


20 posted on 07/19/2014 7:05:54 PM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: ncalburt

~You a Russian poster / Putin propagandist / collaborator who signed up here Match 19 2014 is allowed to lie and spin for this KGB monster !
Unreal.~

What lie and what am I spinning? BTW, I haven’t ever voted for Putun.


21 posted on 07/19/2014 7:11:12 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: wetphoenix

Why did you sign up here on March 19 2014 and proceed to post non stop uncut KGB fed propaganda here.

Who are you ?


22 posted on 07/19/2014 7:14:35 PM PDT by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: ncalburt

Is any opinion or fact (if you can see the difference between it) you don’t like a ‘KGB propaganda’? I’m not propagating a thing here.


23 posted on 07/19/2014 7:18:51 PM PDT by wetphoenix
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To: ncalburt

Perhaps. Perhaps not. I think these people that shot down this plane were less trained or they would have not shot down a passenger plane. Better trained people would not have screwed up like that and there is nothing for them to gain by shooting down a commercial airliner and they now expose themselves to being hassled big time.

Russia has nothing to gain itself by shooting down a commercial airliner. More likely it was rebels armed by Russia


24 posted on 07/19/2014 7:19:45 PM PDT by plain talk
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To: Aliska
My sense is that we covertly agitated in the western Ukraine to get the legitimately elected president removed and who knows what else?

Your sense would be wrong for a number of reasons. First, there's no evidence that we "covertly" agitated anything, despite constant claims by the Alex Jones and Ron Paul types; next, your "legitimately elected president" was having people picked up and tortured by the Berkut and then, when things started to heat up, had people shot. Did we make him do that? There is plenty of blame to go around and why can't we mind our own business?

What the hell are we even doing that ticks you guys off so much anyway? The Ukrainians will be lucky they aren't half drowned in their own blood before Obozo gets off the golf course.

25 posted on 07/19/2014 7:47:33 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Chickensoup
We shot down an Iranian plane. Did anybody put sanctions on us?

By the way, the Iranians launched that airline from the same airport they were launching military planes. They also ignored repeated contacts and warnings. Sounds like martyrdom to me.

26 posted on 07/19/2014 7:48:56 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
So claims the Boston Globe, broadly the Guardian, Kucinich in newsmax, none of which are our favorites. forbes, I like them. The other sources were Russian and ones I wouldn't trust.

It came up way back in June when my sister visited; she is well versed in foreign policy, I said what I suspected and she agreed. Many talking about a proxy war, main characters would be us and Russia.

Did we make Yankovitch or whatever his name is do it, no, wasn't sure who was a thug. Seems like they all are.

What are we doing that ticks me off? Egypt, Lybia, I think maybe the public stopped them just in time not to go into Syria on the rebels' side, 90% against.

So it's hard to keep track of, admit to looking at Alex but I can tell ahead of time the position he will take on any given matter.

So maybe you are better versed in the sequence of events in Ukraine, but it's not wrong of me to wish that our relations with Russia hadn't turned so sour. First it was Obama will have more flexibility on nukes, open mike, shocking, he's wanting to emasculate our services and fired a whole lot of nuke experts for something that didn't sound too egregious especially compared with just a tiny fraction of what he has done.

Then he got into a pissin' contest with Putin because Putin showed him up on Syria I think it was. Yes, I remembered, and it was the chemical weapons Putin brokered the deal on. I'm mad that our relations had to deteriorate to this point.

And Putin has watched us blunder all over the Middle East and most importantly has not forgotten our role in nearly bankrupting them before.

It's not going away now. Putin may feel like the Ukraine was given away not that long ago which was once the very heart and soul of Russia. He grabbed for the Crimea, and now we don't know how far he will go or how much he is doing because we have major antagonized him, childishly I might add.

27 posted on 07/19/2014 8:33:48 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: plain talk
Russia has nothing to gain itself by shooting down a commercial airliner.

But Russia has everything to gain from the closing of the east-west air corridor over Ukraine which has already happened because of the shootdown.

28 posted on 07/19/2014 8:47:12 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip
But Russia has everything to gain from the closing of the east-west air corridor over Ukraine which has already happened because of the shootdown.

Why?

29 posted on 07/19/2014 8:51:17 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: Ignorance on parade.)
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To: Aliska
I wish I felt there were cooler heads prevailing in Washington.

McCain(, and his twin Lindsey), is just plain scary.

30 posted on 07/19/2014 8:54:06 PM PDT by The_Media_never_lie (The media must be defeated any way it can be done.)
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To: okie01

It forces all air traffic to and from Asia to go well south and bottleneck over Turkey and costing all the flights money and time and fuel and safety.

And if they want to go north of Ukraine then he will shut that too.


31 posted on 07/19/2014 8:58:58 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip
It forces all air traffic to and from Asia to go well south and bottleneck over Turkey and costing all the flights money and time and fuel and safety.

And Russia gains...how?

32 posted on 07/19/2014 9:02:20 PM PDT by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: Ignorance on parade.)
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To: The_Media_never_lie
McCain(, and his twin Lindsey), is just plain scary.

Yes it is especially since the media purposely picks on McCain (don't know as much about Lindsey) because he sounds like such an idiot and makes Republicans look really stupid which is exactly what they want to do.

I can't really ignore him but he is incapable of rational thought if he ever was and I'm sick of it because I see what they are doing.

33 posted on 07/19/2014 9:04:28 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: okie01

Payback against the West for putting economic sanctions on him.

You cost my economy — I will cost your economy.

Hundreds of flights per day went through that Ukraine corridor — now that’s been taken away and the corridor that they have to fly is longer and will cost them more in fuel.


34 posted on 07/19/2014 9:16:20 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Aliska
Did we make Yankovitch or whatever his name is do it, no, wasn't sure who was a thug. Seems like they all are.

Don't take offense, but probably best not to make conclusions like this if all you can get out of it is a "seeming." Either something is or it isn't. You ought to look for the truth, and not rest on speculation.

As for Alex Jones, that's your first mistake. He is a dufus and likely a Russian plant himself. I remember when he was sucking up for Putin during the fraudulent elections, he and his website were parroting Russian media.

When Russian media tells you that there is a "proxy" war, they are only projecting their own guilt.

35 posted on 07/19/2014 9:50:31 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Lurker

The only way this will work is if we also put sanctions on Russia’s allies, including China, Belarus, and Kazakhstan (if they dont play ball); and start a massive arms buildup in Poland and the Baltic states. We also may consider a ground invasion of Cuba and assassinating/arresting the leader of Venezuela.


36 posted on 07/19/2014 11:50:27 PM PDT by Thunder90 (All posts soley represent my own opinion.)
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To: vette6387

What will make him wake up and take notice is American/NATO military forces conducting exercises in the Baltic States, Poland, Czechoslovakia, etc, and military hardware delivered to the Ukrainians.

He’s playing hardball and we are tossing creampuffs. Russia has lots of trading partners and lots of oil and gas.

And we should put in that missile system Bush was talking about.

Putin needs to understand that if he wants to start the Cold War again, we can destroy his economy in a combination of ways.


37 posted on 07/20/2014 1:44:35 AM PDT by ZULU (Go REDSKINS!!! Impeach Obama!!!)
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To: Uncle Chip

I don’t see how they have anything to gain from shooting down a commercial airliner. On the airspace point — what has Russia to gain from keeping commercial planes from flying over Ukraine. Just curious what you are thinking.


38 posted on 07/20/2014 6:24:55 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: plain talk

They certainly have nothing to lose —

What has this incident cost them???

It cost them one SAM — they have thousands.

They could care less about public opinion especially with their 5th estate propagandists blaming this on everyone else.

It will now cost every plane travelling east-west about $1500 more per flight for fuel.

Putin now has something to trade to compel the removal of those economic sanctions — you remove the sanctions and I will remove the SAMs from the hands of the Donetskian rebels so the corridor can be reopened.


39 posted on 07/20/2014 7:13:38 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

Ok. Thanks. I have no idea where you are going with your line of thinking. Have a nice afternoon.


40 posted on 07/20/2014 10:26:08 AM PDT by plain talk
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
It's hard to keep up with it all. This morning it all seems like a nightmarish jumble. Alex is not a mistake and my attention span for him is very short; he goes into these maniacal rants, I suspected he worked for our intel or our intel uses him to gather data about people who interact with him in one way or another.

I'm too tired now to deal with this.

41 posted on 07/20/2014 10:41:09 AM PDT by Aliska
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