Skip to comments.Why Russia buys Putin’s lies
Posted on 07/21/2014 7:58:16 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
MOSCOW The outside world knows Russian-backed militants shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, using missiles supplied by Moscow, even if few leaders are yet willing to say outright that Vladimir Putin has blood on his hands (again).
But the Russian public is happy to buy Putins lies.
Its obvious the Ukrainians did this, the separatists dont have the weaponry or the ability to shoot down aircraft at that altitude, a partner at a major law firm told me.
Never mind that the separatists had shot down at least two Ukrainian planes in the week before, or that the Ukrainians had no reason to shoot at any plane because the militants have no airpower.
Then theres an economist at the Ministry of Finance: The Ukrainians are fascists, of course theyre responsible.
One university professor was a bit more honest: You dont understand. Were Russians, we will never admit guilt to outsiders, especially to Americans. Even if we know were guilty.
In the outside world, people know the rebels have done all they could to impede any impartial investigation even seizing the bodies of the 298 innocent victims, and that the missile launchers were quickly pulled back into Russia after the atrocity.
But this is a schizophrenic society. People distrust their own government, but they distrust and hate foreigners even more. Many understand that Russia is probably responsible, but theyll never admit it; its not a society given to self-criticism or honesty.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...
The people of Hitler’s Germany behaved in a similar fashion. Obviously, it’s not easy to accept that your own country’s leader is capable of mass murder and crimes against humanity. But Russia’s Putin provides another example of an incompetent sociopath somehow climbing to the top of the political ladder in a country.
Just as I always thunk. Russians and Liberals are birds of a feather.
He's a dangerous character for sure.
Joe, this is my opinion. Russia accepts putin’s lies in the same vain many Americans accept obama’s lies. Can’t call it hero worship but maybe it can be called man worship.
The dynamics of the propagandized populace sound so much like Obama’s solid 40 % approval with the media obfuscation buttressing the delusions. At least they have a 10-fold rise of income to celebrate and protect, so they believe. What does Obama offer compared to that, free birth control and a phone?
We don’t have much room to talk. The people living in this country fall for Obammie’s lies EVERY time.
“Why Russia buys Putins lies”
Well, if I were Russian, I’d sure have a tough time believing Obama...it’s hard enough to believe Obama being an American.
He's totally incompetent. He has mismanaged the Russian economy. He has mismanaged the Russian political system. He has mismanaged Russia's foreign policy. Leaving drunken incompetents in charge of weapons that can down commercial airliners is an act of grave incompetence.
And, how do you like his public relations damage control efforts in the wake of this nightmare he has created? Do you really think his idiotic lies reflect competence, some peculiar genius that just isn't being appreciated?
He's a sloppy thug.
He got away with the polonium poisoning of a prominent critic in London, what, a decade ago? That was his calling card, nobody’s going to do anything about him.
How many Odumbo murdered in Syria in an attempt to bring AQ to power?
How many innocent civilians Odumbo murdered in Pakistan allegedly chasing AQ?
Nobel prize winner, the leader of the Free world.
Well, we have some people right here on FR who buy Putin’s propaganda. Not surprising that many Russians do as well.
He didn’t much get away with it if you and I know about it. I don’t think the plan was that we were supposed to know that Putin was personally responsible.
I’d say, to the contrary.
He’s still the alpha male.
I really don't know how some people can admire Putin. It's a real mystery to me because the guy has crippled his own country during his leadership. Maybe some people get the hots because he takes off his shirt, I don't know. It's weird - that's for sure.
I have no illusions that Putin is some sort of God fearing, democracy loving moral leader... I don’t think that is a fair appraisal of the man.
I also have the same misgivings about the current leader of Ukraine. And I also hold our own president in rather low esteem.
I obviously don’t know all the facts concerning the horrific downing of the Malaysian passenger jet, but I would be shocked if it was downed on purpose. The tragedy serves no one, not Russia, not Ukraine and least of all the eastern separatists involved in civil war.
It seems most probable to me that it was shot down by the separatists using a Russian built missile system. It seems probable that Russians may have been in attendance when the horrific deed was done.
I think they thought it was a Ukrainian military jet and a legitimate target of the civil war.
I can’t imagine why the pilot of the Malaysian jetliner was traveling over a hot war zone!? Was he mad? incompetent? or simply a fool following orders? I wish I knew.
In war, terrible things happen. Terrible things happened in our war of independence and our own bloody civil war.
Many would say that outsiders should refrain from meddling or giving assistance to either side in a civil war or a war for separation and independence. Outsiders are generally involved in such wars however. In the case of the conflict raging in Ukraine both the US and Russia have meddled and supported the parties involved. The results for both have been shameful and ignominious.
I hope and pray that events do not spiral out of control for those who have foolishly involved themselves in the Ukrainian war.... We are directly involved and so is Russia.
Both nations have freely decided to inject themselves into this mess...both have unclean hands.
I hope that I am wrong but I feel we are on the precipice of a world war because of our involvement in Ukraine and Syria. I pray God is merciful and helps us find our way out this mess... a mess we are at least partially responsible for.
Given the questionable leadership we are saddled with here in the US I think it is a good time to start worrying and start praying for guidance.
The USS Vincennes wasn't run by drunk incompetents either, but an Iranian airliner got shot down anyway. Many of these "Ukrainian rebels" are Russian special ops, particularly those in leadership roles. Sometimes, when you have airliners flying through warzones, sh** happens.
Don't mistake corruption for incompetence. Putin is handling things more or less how he wants them handled.
Don’t forget about all the other journalists and editors he had shot in the middle of the night.
This creep has left a long, bloody trail for anybody who bothered to look.
But a lot were too busy swooning over his tough-guy image to notice. Probably the same dumbasses who think Tony Soprano was some kind of managerial genius.
Why does that sound like admiration to you? Yeah, I think his style of leadership is enhanced by showing people that oppose him what he can do to them, no matter where they are. The opposite of George Washington, who is the leader to be admired through the ages. Don’t you suppose Barack Obama’s in your face use of the IRS is the same kind of calculation that drives Putin?
Yeah, he’s so dreamy. What a stud.
I’ve often wondered about Russian polls.
If you were a Russian, how would you respond to a poll about KGB PUTIN?
There you go. He's probably a big hit with middle-aged queers. Qaddafi used to prance around on horseback, too. Grownups know that such photo-ops are designed to cover up incompetence, but the ploy does work with some folks.
Sorry you fellows missed the pun, I know it's late. And it's hard to see what somebody is saying if all you want to look for is a fight.
I'm not a connoisseur of poisons. ;-)
I see. The explanation is that Putin likes having a crappy, unproductive economy and a crappy, corrupt political system. I guess that's all part of his vision for Russia?
The people of Germany knew what was going on and they loved it.
Agree. I would also add that the same question that you ask can also be asked about the polling company in KGB Putin's Russia.
At worst we are in for another round of the Cold War. Something I am quite used to.
Putin is not going to get involved in a shooting war over the Ukraine. He has what he wants and can get the rest later.
He will now move on to the other places on the map that have Russian populations and things that Russia needs.
As for Syria, it's only a proxy war. Look it up, as we have engaged in them for many decades. neither of these actions will lead to a full out war. What can happen is as things move on, and they always do, will be misreads and mistakes on either side can lead to a catalyst event.
I would not expect that situation to become plausible for several years. However you are correct about one thing, and that is our actions, or better said "lack of action" is what is causing the Russians to press harder on the accelerator.
We need to keep up or that situation I spoke of, can happen a lot more sooner than later. They only respect a willingness to use power as needed, and we are not showing that card now..........not with Obama.
Well, that's more complicated than things usually get. I think I'll just stick with the more straightforward view that he would like his country to succeed, but because of his incompetent policies, his country is failing. If you've visited Russia lately, you know it's a pit.
I have heard a convincing theory that he is raising a sense of nationalism to the Russians: the feeling that the country is a still a great power because they are great people.
A sense of proud-ness lost when the empire fell brought back.
Making fools of the US Obama administration showing them weak and powerless.
33,000 feet is out of the range of any conventional ground weapons, even a 50 cal, or a anti-tank rocket, or anything but a SAM missile.
There was not supposed to be any SAM's in use. The Russians only recently brought the ting into the country, so they thought that there was no risk.
In addition, every domestic civilian passenger jet has electronics that ID the Jet and the SAM launcher can read that data.
So unless someone is a total idiot, a SAM operator would have never started the launch sequence.
But apparently there was a idiot.
His approval ratings after the incident are at 80%.....
Arranged overland rail transport from South Korea to Hamburg, quicker than sea route by some 12 days. Ouch, that hurts.
Striked deals to share wealth with Germans, British Royals (BP) and Dutch - they are resellers of Russian gas. Thats why Europe does not care about American call for sanctions.
Established international bank to rival IMF leeches. Ouch, that hurts - Dollar will NOT be used for transactions for 4/5 of the world population.
This "incompetent commie" established flat tax 13%. How would you like that for yourself?
It does not sound incompetent to me. More of a game changer with capitalist spirit.
Not to downplay Russia’s probable role in the shoot down but there is info out that the Ukrainians also had a few of the missiles left over from old associations by/with the ex Ukraine president.
Common sense says that since there was no need (militarily) for the Ukraine government to field a SAM system, largely because there was no air attacks to defend against.
Secondly because the particular area where the SAM was launched was in the control of the so called “separatists”.
The Russian propaganda that you read and are now attempting to use as a refutation to the obvious can only be considered to be utter baloney and obvious favorable propaganda issued by Russian agents located almost everywhere in media.. and everywhere else.
If Putin has been shorting the MICEX (Russian stock market), then maybe he's been personally profiting from his official failures. But, if he's been trying to strengthen his country, then he's been a failure.
I did not refute any published news about Russia’s probable involvement in the shoot down. I wanted to point out that Russia probably had supplied the Ukraine with such capable missiles when their man was president. When their man left the Ukraine in a hurry the missiles did not go with him. I gather you are not historically up on tricks and lies used by all nations over times to further political actions. Think of Hitler and WWII in which I served. Think of Ike and the U2 incident. Think of LBJ and the Gulf of Tonkin. Think about Khrushchev and the Cuban crisis. Think about all the disinformation put out by Arab nations. With many years in my mind I believe I am closer to reality and knowing sometimes one’s common sense is just that, common but not necessarily factual.
Just like the Ruskies here on FR they will never admit Russia or Putin is ever guilty of anything.
There could be video of Putin stabbing a old Ukrainian veteran 42 times and his video taped confession of it and they would excuse it away as Kiev propaganda.
Russia could nuke the US and the Ruskies here would blame the Ukrainian bellboy at the Holiday Inn in NYC or how it is the US’s fault.
Yes, but they (Ukraine) had no reason to be shooting at anything flying at 33,000 ft. and headed east / coming from Western Ukraine on a clearly “commercial flight” trajectory.
Also, on another thread here on FR (I’m not sure which), it was noted that contrary to oft stated opinion, the Russian BUK system would NOT recognize a commercial airliner as such, unless it was tied into the local air traffic control. Who’s missile systems would be more likely NOT tied into ATC from Kiev?
Putinistas on this site, too, are in love with him and cannot believe he did this. They think he’s just a good fellow, and they think all that talk about the KGB is either not true or just a youthful indiscretion. The fact that his pops was a commie secret policeman doesn’t matter. The fact that he steals from his people doesn’t matter either. The fact that he’s president for life doesn’t matter. To them, he’s a find conservative.
Are you in love with Putin?
Since you brought it up, the US has a rather poor performance record compared to the Russians who are expert and well trained at counter intelligence the use of it to agitate populations and their governments in countries where they have a strategic interest. Or to respond to what they view as aggression. The US record of success, except for a string of good results during the Eisenhower administration has been rather poor and in fact pretty sad... In WWII the Roosevelt and Truman admins were infiltrated with both Nazi and Russian spies. The Russians were very successful in the US. They were able to steal out first atomic bomb plans and the B-29 to deliver it. The Nazi's were more effective in Great Britain where their agents were able to steal papers right off the desk of the Prime Minister's office. The Nazi's, for example, during WWII, went into Mexico and stirred up passions of many people there to demand from the US, the return of Texas, New Mexico and Southern California, leading eventually to a movement that we are dealing with today.
Much of what you read in the media today is in fact propaganda. Some of it from the US government, and regarding the Ukraine, it comes from Russia, placed in the foreign press which is picked up by media in the US.
There is no question that the Ukrainian govt. responds to it with their own versions of the truth.
But I don't decide what is true and what is not true by reading what they put in print or in the media and nor should you, if you have the experience that you claim to have.
That article and variations of it about the Ukrainian gov’nt launcher, supposedly with the same numbers on it that were purportedly also on the launcher that launched the missile, is out right disinformation and propaganda.
As is the vast majority of pro-Russian articles that have been circulating in the media.
But I did not even attempt to say the current Ukrainian Govt does not have SAM’s or launchers. If you read what I said about it, I stated that there was no logical reason for them to deploy one, and that the area where this missile came from was not in their control anyway.
Thus it would be entirely unfeasible for a Ukraine gov’nt launcher and crew to be in that area at that time. Not to mention again, that they are not fighting off air attacks, which is the only purpose for a SAM. The Russian Separatists have no planes.
I'm not so sure about the 2nd part of that. While still vulnerable to having some troops cut off, especially in the area to the south of, oh, say Amvrosiivka to Krasnodon, the Ukrainians have significantly pushed back the rebels, who themselves will be cut off in their entirety if Kiev can manage to close off the remaining 20 miles or so of border that Ukraine presently does not control...
There is some HEAVY weaponry fighting going on: I've seen comparisons of intensity to WW2, although in a more limited area of course. That is probably overstated a bit, but this is nothing like U.S. operations in Afghanistan, for example. Eastern Europeans and Russians don't mess around once they get going.
At any rate, especially if Russia pulls back on the air defenses for the rebels, and since Putin seems reluctant to commit to a major direct Russian ground op, I think it's possible that Ukraine can win this round before winter arrives. This creates an interesting scenario: Would Ukraine be content with the then status quo, or would they try to isolate Crimea and possibly start trouble from within, in 2015?
Now, if you mean that the US is unlikely to be directly involved in a shooting war with Russia, I agree. But a proxy war via Ukraine could go on for some time.
Leaving the "incompetent" argument aside, I don't think there's much "somehow" involved. Countries usually get the leadership they deserve, especially when it happens repeatedly. Unfortunately, this is true even in the US: I think my country can still produce another Reagan, for example, but would this country would again elect such a leader? I am less sure of that. :-(