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Russian Air Massacre: What Would Reagan Do?
IBD ^

Posted on 07/22/2014 12:22:21 AM PDT by elhombrelibre

Leadership: President Obama's response to Russia's downing of an unarmed passenger jet is tepid compared with President Reagan's response to a similar horror in 1983.

Obama called Russian-backed rebels' downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 a "terrible tragedy." Reagan called the Soviets' downing of Korean Airlines Flight 007 a "crime against humanity." Despite overwhelming evidence Moscow had a hand in the civilian massacre over Ukrainian airspace, Obama refuses to rebuke Russia. Instead, he's called for an "international investigation into the incident." A defiant Vladimir Putin, meanwhile, has warned the West against using the tragedy for "selfish political ends," and is spreading propaganda the U.S. operated the Malaysian jet as a "spy plane" — the same lie Moscow told after blowing up the Korean jet.

It's not too late for Obama to borrow a page from Reagan's successful playbook dealing with Russian thugs. The following is abridged from his diary:

(Excerpt) Read more at news.investors.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: mh17
We know he would not have made excuses or lied for the gangster statesman Putin. We know he'd never become a Putinista.
1 posted on 07/22/2014 12:22:22 AM PDT by elhombrelibre
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To: elhombrelibre

Build the missile shield, expand NATO, sign legislation outlawing Russia forever.


2 posted on 07/22/2014 12:35:46 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: elhombrelibre

Why do we keep reaching back to a man who is gone now? I miss him like I miss my father and they were both father figures to me, but there comes a time to let them go. Speculating on what so-and-so historical figure would do now is really mental masturbation and gets us nowhere. What are WE going to do about the encroaching tyranny of the Left, the bureaucracy, the GOPe, academia, the news industry, the militarized police, the alphabet agencies, Hollywood and all the rest? What are WE going to do about the invasion by millions of unwelcome foreigners? What are WE going to do about militant Islam, the knockout game and atheism? Why are we worried about Vladimir Putin half a world away?


3 posted on 07/22/2014 12:42:55 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: elhombrelibre

Reagan offered to give the Russians missile defense technology.


4 posted on 07/22/2014 12:48:55 AM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: elhombrelibre

“Russian Air Massacre: What Would Reagan Do?”


Wait 4 days before addressing the country about it like he did when Russia shot down Korean Air Flight 007?


5 posted on 07/22/2014 12:52:16 AM PDT by chessplayer
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Why do we keep reaching back to a man who is gone now?


Yup. One of the reasons I stopped watching hannity over two months ago was his “what would Reagan do” schtick. He’s still living in the 1980’s and I got tired of his drivel.


6 posted on 07/22/2014 12:57:07 AM PDT by chessplayer
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To: elhombrelibre
Here is Reagan's KAL007 speech:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VA4W1wDMAk#t=539

Watch that and remember that according to the MSM, Reagan was a dunce and Obama is a genius.

What the hell happened to this country?

7 posted on 07/22/2014 1:01:28 AM PDT by TChad (The Obamacare motto: Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.)
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To: TChad
What the hell happened to this country?

Emperor Zero is letting his Vice Presidents speak for him. Biden and McCain.

8 posted on 07/22/2014 1:06:56 AM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

AMEN BROTHER!


9 posted on 07/22/2014 1:07:07 AM PDT by prisoner6 (Stop the Stupid!)
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To: elhombrelibre
Then there was the time the US shot a civilian airliner out of the sky, killing 290. Unlike MH17, they were floating in the water of the Persian Gulf instead of crashing through roofs into babuskha's kitchens, hiding under upturned seats, or simply lying naked stripped by the wind in the weeds. But they were just as dead.

It happened on Reagan's watch.

However, the USS Vincennes has a defense the Ukrainian separatists lack. The sailors on board the Vincennes, in the midst of duking it out with the muzzies in the Gulf, believed they were under attack by a fighter armed with Exocet missiles. Not long before, the USS Stark lost 37 as a result of a mistaken missile attack by an Iraqi fighter (Saddam was our ally then, LOL!).

However, these Ukrainian separatists were not in danger themselves. They were simply looking to shoot down yet another Ukrainian government plane. They f'd-up, as they realized about forty minutes later. No parachuting government pilots to be captured. Just hundreds of dead bodies with foreign passports!


Control console of Buk-M2E missile system

Wow! That thing looks complicated! It needs an iOS GUI makeover. Gaze at the targets on the screen. Pick one. Double-tap. Whoosh! It's gone!

Whether you're sitting in front of an Aegis or a Buk, the problem is similar. If your finger is itchy, everything flying looks like a target. If your own life isn't in danger, you need to verify, not trust.

Of course, even that is not enough. Which brings us to KAL 007. Here's Lieutenant Gennadi Osipovich's recollection:

"I saw two rows of windows and knew that this was a Boeing," he said. "I knew this was a civilian plane. But for me this meant nothing. It is easy to turn a civilian type of plane into one for military use."

Minutes later, he fired two air-to-air missiles, sending Korean Air Lines Flight 007 crashing into the sea, killing 269 people and causing what President Boris N. Yeltsin has called the greatest tragedy of the cold war.


10 posted on 07/22/2014 1:23:59 AM PDT by cynwoody
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To: cynwoody
However, these Ukrainian separatists were not in danger themselves.

They are in a rebellion/civil war and recently experienced a ramped up offensive from Ukraine. And the Ukraine had closed its airspace to civilian traffic over the war zone.

Ban introduced on civil flights over zone of military operation in eastern Ukraine

They assumed it was a military plane. All information available points to that.

Reagan had a strong hand to play. The Russians knew it was civilian because they tracked it over their air space for quite awhile. Reagan played a strong hand correctly.

11 posted on 07/22/2014 1:35:59 AM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: justa-hairyape
And the Ukraine had closed its airspace to civilian traffic over the war zone.

The Ukrainian no-fly zone was to the south of the Donbas region. Reportedly, MH17 specifically requested permission to fly north of it and were duly approved, after having already over-flown ~700 miles of Ukrainian territory.

BTW, it's "Ukraine", not "the Ukraine". It's a country, not a region of the USSR.

They assumed it was a military plane. All information available points to that.

Absolutely. They assumed. But there is no excuse for assuming unless your life is in imminent danger, which theirs was not.

12 posted on 07/22/2014 1:55:18 AM PDT by cynwoody
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To: cynwoody
The Ukrainian no-fly zone was to the south of the Donbas region.

One would think it was also cover the zone where they had just lost 2 military planes.

Reportedly, MH17 specifically requested permission to fly north of it and were duly approved, after having already over-flown ~700 miles of Ukrainian territory.

Yes. Reportedly. We should have had the actual air traffic controller tapes released by now. Why not ?

Absolutely. They assumed. But there is no excuse for assuming unless your life is in imminent danger, which theirs was not.

You are talking about how the US under Obama fights a war. When the rest of the world fights a war, they always assume they are in danger.

Later.

13 posted on 07/22/2014 2:10:02 AM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: justa-hairyape
You are talking about how the US under Obama fights a war. When the rest of the world fights a war, they always assume they are in danger.

Actually, I was talking about how the US waged war during the Reagan Administration. Under Obama, they wouldn't have been there in the first place (Muzzies must be defeated, but Obama is one, at least for such purposes).

14 posted on 07/22/2014 2:27:38 AM PDT by cynwoody
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Yeah, those days are gone. We don’t have one now.


15 posted on 07/22/2014 2:31:55 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: TChad

Reagan would first get all the facts before doing anything. The Obama team wants us to rush to judgement.


16 posted on 07/22/2014 3:06:27 AM PDT by CMB_polarization
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To: CMB_polarization

“.......The Obama team wants us to rush to judgement.”......

And then DO NOTHING. Well, perhaps another line in the sand will scare them off. What the hell would happen if, God Forbid, a real attack was against us on our very soil?


17 posted on 07/22/2014 3:58:56 AM PDT by DaveA37
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To: CMB_polarization

“.......The Obama team wants us to rush to judgement.”......
and then DO NOTHING. Well, perhaps another line in the sand will scare them off.

What the hell would happen if, God forbid, a real attack was against us on our very soil?


18 posted on 07/22/2014 4:01:03 AM PDT by DaveA37
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Thank you.


19 posted on 07/22/2014 4:01:41 AM PDT by dforest
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Why do we keep reaching back to a man who is gone now?”

First off, growing up Reagan was also some flicker screen father figure. He also kindled a grievously unfulfilled desire to become a Brother Rat. That said, I was disappointed in his presidency and more so post-presidency. After leaving the White House he was invited to tour Japan to make speeches & appearances before business groups. While Bubba was still wearing white shoes & pastel-polyester, Reagan collected at least $2M for those performances. I’m still of a mind that Reagan’s Sushi Tour and similar acts by subsequent presidents to be nothing more than selling of the presidency.

Finally in the here and now, agree that folks too often cite Reagan …WWRD … as some solution to problems. But President Reagan’s presidency is viewed as one of the more significant in US history. His leadership restored through deed and action the reputation of the US. A reputation unfairly scarred by critics of Ford and totally bumble-fumbled by Carter.

In solving “what are WE going to do”, short of reinventing the good old wheel, it’s necessary to look to history for guidance. The Reagan years, 1981-1989 is recent enough to still serve as “current events”. It’s also instructive to study the years 1977-1981. In determining what NOT to do, can’t beat Carter’s term. Indeed, WWCD!

In “reaching back to a man who is gone now” it occurs to me our greater question should be ‘who is there to reach out to NOW’?


20 posted on 07/22/2014 4:54:53 AM PDT by Huaynero
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To: elhombrelibre

The most disgusting thing in the news yesterday was the hypocritical scene of the handoff of the orange boxes.

Borodai, the self appointed “prime minister” refused to hand them over to the Malaysians unless and until they recognized him as man-in-charge, shook his hands, and gave him the required photo-op.

Yeh we shot your plane down, and killed its passengers, and are looting the crime scene, but you can’t have your black boxes back until you recognize me as “prime minister” of our shootdown site.

What a bunch of lowlifes —


21 posted on 07/22/2014 5:39:41 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
What are WE going to do about the encroaching tyranny of the Left, the bureaucracy, the GOPe, academia, the news industry, the militarized police, the alphabet agencies, Hollywood and all the rest?

You do realize that all of these things were where the Russians found their greatest support during the Cold War and continue to find that support to this day.

Wake up and you just might see the connection between what is going on in the Ukraine and what they and their comrades here want for the US.

22 posted on 07/22/2014 5:52:53 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

Borodai is a Russian from Russia with long time ties to the FSB, the successors to the KGB. It’s all a con game.


23 posted on 07/22/2014 8:11:28 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: cynwoody

And I was referring to how you were trying to project US standards of war fare conduct onto another country. And current US standards of war fare conduct are ridiculous. The US has to wait until shot upon or think it is being shot upon before it can shoot back. And we also have to announce and debate all our military moves in public, before we can actually perform them. Completely insane.


24 posted on 07/22/2014 11:17:45 AM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: DaveA37
What the hell would happen if, God forbid, a real attack was against us on our very soil?

Ask Ambassador Stevens or the US Border Patrol. A full on WW III first strike will be over before Obama gets off the golf course.

25 posted on 07/22/2014 11:19:48 AM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: elhombrelibre

26 posted on 07/22/2014 11:21:10 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: elhombrelibre

...Russia’s downing of an unarmed passenger jet...

Oh now it’s a fact. I guess if you repeat something enough times...


27 posted on 07/22/2014 11:21:57 AM PDT by McGruff (There are none so blind as those who will not see)
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To: CMB_polarization
Reagan would first get all the facts before doing anything. The Obama team Quite a few freepers wants us to rush to judgement.
28 posted on 07/22/2014 11:23:42 AM PDT by McGruff (There are none so blind as those who will not see)
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To: McGruff

It will never be a fact for you, Boris.


29 posted on 07/22/2014 10:26:34 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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