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UKRAINE: Trajectory of missile that hit Malaysia Airlines plane crash
https://www.facebook.com/anna.bichik?fref=nf ^ | 22/7/2014

Posted on 07/22/2014 6:31:30 AM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com

U.S. issued trajectory missile that hit MH17

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtJlw6OCcAA810y.jpg


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: mh17
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1 posted on 07/22/2014 6:31:30 AM PDT by UMCRevMom@aol.com
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To: UMCRevMom@aol.com

Did the CIA help to produce this one too?


2 posted on 07/22/2014 6:33:44 AM PDT by garyb
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To: UMCRevMom@aol.com
Okay. I fell for it.

Against my better judgement, I clicked on the link.

What was I SUPPOSED to see?

3 posted on 07/22/2014 6:33:49 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: UMCRevMom@aol.com

A live link ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtJlw6OCcAA810y.jpg


4 posted on 07/22/2014 6:35:13 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Texas Eagle

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BtJlw6OCcAA810y.jpg


5 posted on 07/22/2014 6:35:34 AM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: Texas Eagle

6 posted on 07/22/2014 6:36:14 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (The cure has become worse than the disease. Support an end to the WOD now.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Thank you.


7 posted on 07/22/2014 6:38:23 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: UMCRevMom@aol.com
Okay. If the Russian Separatists (aka Terrorists) thought that that was a cargo plane full of Ukrainian supplies or troops, where did they think it was heading? Is there an airport somewhere that we can't see in that photo?

It looks like the plane was on its way OUT of Ukrainian territory and almost into Russsia.

8 posted on 07/22/2014 6:44:33 AM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: UMCRevMom@aol.com

Source, supporting evidence, documentation? Or someone’s WAG?


9 posted on 07/22/2014 6:45:47 AM PDT by wrench
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To: UMCRevMom@aol.com

This is all BS. I know a center wing tank explosion when I see one.


10 posted on 07/22/2014 6:47:23 AM PDT by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Based on the location of the shootdown site, the flight path of the MH17, and the reports of BUK launchers in Snizhne, that would appear to be accurate.


11 posted on 07/22/2014 6:53:03 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Texas Eagle
It looks like the plane was on its way OUT of Ukrainian territory and almost into Russsia.

Bingo --

12 posted on 07/22/2014 6:55:34 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: UMCRevMom@aol.com

We can get this kind of detail on Flight 17 but no one has any earthly idea of even what direction Flight 370 was headed for multiple hours???


13 posted on 07/22/2014 6:55:42 AM PDT by bereanway
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To: bereanway

I would imagine there’s a great deal more spy satellite activity over that particular part of the world - the eastern Ukraine/Russia border - then there is over the area where MH370 went down.


14 posted on 07/22/2014 6:59:11 AM PDT by AnAmericanAbroad (It's all bread and circuses for the future prey of the Morlocks.)
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To: Texas Eagle

There’s no way, given the direction and altitude, that plane was likely to land anywhere in Ukraine, short of being shot down. Also, given the plane’s altitude, the BUK’s radar should have seen it perhaps as far as 200 miles out.

Someone should add the missile’s trajectory to that graphic...


15 posted on 07/22/2014 7:03:07 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: bereanway

Well, Flight 17 was not attempting to avoid detection, was over populated areas, was in regular contact with flight control, and would have been on multiple radars, including the BUK’s.


16 posted on 07/22/2014 7:06:07 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Texas Eagle
Ukraine said there's a Mechanized brigade of theirs on the border with Russia that's surrounded by Separatists and dependent on air resupply. Unless they go into Russia, they don't have a way out of their situation. So, they're pinned right against the border.

The transport shot down not long before the passenger plane was in the same area but traveling more from a more Westerly direction than what is shown as the path of the airliner, but not from directly what seems to be the West in that illustration, more like 15 to twenty degrees off that line as best I could tell. If you're interested, you can find where the transport was coming from and going to probably if this hasn't pushed all that off into the bit bucket everywhere. The maps I saw are oriented a bit different, so without one in front of me all that I'm sure of is that it was passing through the same area headed directly toward the unit on the Russian border.

As for the unit on the border, I don't really know if they have an airfield available to them or it's all airdrop of stuff for them.

17 posted on 07/22/2014 7:11:29 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: coloradan

Pierre Salinger would disagree.


18 posted on 07/22/2014 7:13:40 AM PDT by TangoLimaSierra (To win the country back, we need to be as mean as the libs say we are.)
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To: Paul R.

Oh, sorry - I misread the graphic. Apparently Torez is only a few miles from Snizhne, and the missile is believed to have been launched from between the two towns.


19 posted on 07/22/2014 7:14:45 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Rashputin

An airdrop from 33,000 ft.?


20 posted on 07/22/2014 7:16:31 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Rashputin

Also not seeing the track of the 2 SU-27s that were within several miles of this airliner, or the other 2 airliners that were less than 30 miles away.

Lots of unanswered questions about why this particular airplane was singled out.


21 posted on 07/22/2014 7:19:12 AM PDT by wrench
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To: Paul R.

LOL. no, but it the AN26 was at 21000, they say, and headed to the unit. So, I figure they have an airfield of some sort and make a steep descent to land or drop just like our stuff does when there’s SAM threat.


22 posted on 07/22/2014 7:19:14 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: garyb

With Brennan running the spookhill, any lie is possible to prop up the L4B regime and embarrass Putin. And murdering hundreds of civilians to embarrass Putin is the sort of dead-soul behavior CIA will be capable of so long as a dead-soul runs the place.


23 posted on 07/22/2014 7:22:40 AM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: Paul R.
370 continued to send data for at least five hours after it disappeared from radar. One would think in that period of time efforts would have been made to determine its whereabouts. Especially after the transponders had shut down and 239 people had just disappeared from radar. Took over 2 months just to release the satellite data.

At the very best, incompetence all the way around.

24 posted on 07/22/2014 7:25:37 AM PDT by bereanway
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To: wrench
Yeah, you know I've noticed that they show this and the earlier AN26 as if it's all alone, in isolation.

It's odd because Kiev will make a case that would be stronger if some of the other information is there so, what, the CIA or SBU just pump out what someone asks for without telling that someone, "you need more information than requested to best make your case"?

Bottom line to me is what kind of lazy, inept, stupid, worthless, SOB responsible for dealing with passenger traffic over Ukraine didn't tell them not to fly over that area after they lost a transport to a weapons system they knew damn well could hit something flying nearly twice as high as they say their transport was flying?

Does Kiev still fly their own civilian passenger planes in and out of this area? If it's not deliberate, it's the sort of incompetence that makes it tough to believe the Kiev government knows what it's own people are doing most of the time.

25 posted on 07/22/2014 7:28:25 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: bereanway

I can’t disagree about the incompetence, but, still, 370 was over a very different part of the world, and procedures were not in place...


26 posted on 07/22/2014 7:35:58 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Rashputin

It’s pretty clear from the flight path and the location of the shootdown site that the plane was not a military transport or danger to anyone on the ground as it was within 3 minutes of being in Russian airspace.

So what were those who pushed the button thinking????


27 posted on 07/22/2014 7:37:45 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Rashputin

Probably fog of war type stuff, not to mention lots of heavy bureaucracy still lying about that I’m sure Kiev hasn’t had time to deal with, IF they even intend to. Just clearing out the Russian spies will likely take years.


28 posted on 07/22/2014 7:44:18 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Uncle Chip

Probably they weren’t (thinking), or at least not very well. I do accept that the separatists initially believed they’d nailed another transport...


29 posted on 07/22/2014 7:47:44 AM PDT by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Uncle Chip
Thinking?

Let me see, Separatists with a weapon they figure is, "use it or loose it", thinking? Their preconception was that anything in the air is Ukraine military because Ukraine civilian flights have all been canceled (if they even thought that deeply), . . . .

Nope, they weren't thinking. The knew it was Ukraine military and no one was going to convince them otherwise even if anyone had tried. And who was going to try anyway? They all have the same preconceptions and are in a situation that rewards going with the what "everybody knows".

Just like whoever didn't warn civilian traffic to stay out of the area, they didn't waste any time thinking about civilian airliners being shot down.

30 posted on 07/22/2014 7:53:34 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: UMCRevMom@aol.com

Wow, this looks like another great opportunity for CNN to get it’s ratings back. /s


31 posted on 07/22/2014 7:54:45 AM PDT by RetSignman (obama: "For the love of Alinsky, how much more do I have to do to get them to impeach me"?)
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To: Paul R.
I'm sure everybody thought it was a transport plane as it was coming down or atleast hoped so.

But if they thought about it a little more they would have to ask themselves why is a transport plane at that altitude heading east within 3 minutes of Russian territory.

And after doing this these incompetents then want to be recognized as the governing authorities in that area.

32 posted on 07/22/2014 8:00:24 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Paul R.
>pre>"I do accept that the separatists initially believed they’d nailed another transport..."

I agree. They had the system where it was because they had figured out that the transports were flying over that area and they were waiting on transports. So, they saw a transport and let fly. Kiev cut it's own throat putting out the BS that the Separatists didn't have anything but MANPADS and couldn't use anything else if they had it. They knew better and if they didn't, their everything their "Intelligence" pumps out is as likely BS as anything else.

They must have a real problem with pilots telling their superiors to "stuff it" or "fly the mission yourself" if they put that trash out to keep the pilots in the dark.

If it was purely for propaganda reasons to try and convince people Russia was involved more than it is, they're just completely stupid, not stupid enough to lie to their own pilots is all. Admitting the Separatists had and could use systems like that was more likely to get outside countries involved to force a truce before something like this happened, though, so instead of making Russia look worse, they made themselves look like they're either stupid from top to bottom or bare faced liars at the top.

33 posted on 07/22/2014 8:13:12 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin
Just like whoever didn't warn civilian traffic to stay out of the area

And this is what I find most interesting --

The ICAO listed this area as a safe fly zone, an evaluation that the Malaysians et al trusted leading the airline into the crosshairs.

And then after the shootdown, Borodai and Putsin both came out and named that same ICAO as the organization that they would deal with and that they wanted to be in charge of the bodies, the boxes, and the investigation.

I suspect that the Malaysians didn't want the ICAO anywhere near this investigation while the Russians insisted that they must be -- and that is what held the bodies and box from being turned over for 4 days.

34 posted on 07/22/2014 8:17:23 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

“And after doing this these incompetents then want to be recognized as the governing authorities in that area.”

What about the incompetence of the country that allowed planes to fly over an area where two other planes had been shot down in the same week.


35 posted on 07/22/2014 8:24:24 AM PDT by FR_addict
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To: Uncle Chip
"And after doing this these incompetents then want to be recognized as the governing authorities in that area."

Which band of which tribe? I'm not so sure the shooters are anything other than a band of merry men who had the biggest weapon and therefore did their own thing pretty much except when they called in to brag.

If there's something somewhere that shows which unit of which superior unit under which commander reporting to some "governing authority", that is, a chain of command the shooters were under? Knowing who to brag to isn't the same as being under their command. More like an OP or locals who aren't doing the fighting knowing who to call with information. I sure haven't seen any chain of command information, just one guy saying "I"m da Cheese" in one town or city. Inside cities, yes, there are some organized units under a central authority of sorts.

Drive to the City Limits and I bet you're not going to have anyone telling you to return to your unit, though.

36 posted on 07/22/2014 8:24:51 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: FR_addict

Are you referring to EuroControl or ICAO???

See post #34


37 posted on 07/22/2014 8:28:45 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: UMCRevMom@aol.com

Folks....stop tracking this whole episode. You will never know what really happened. This is an exact repeat of Malaysian Airlines, lost, flight MH370. When Obama failed to move instantly to force American avation experts into the investigation of the loss of MH370....the investigation was doomed to failure....which is exactly what Obama was sseking. His actions were exactly the same with doomed flight MH017. The PRC (China) did exactly the same thing as Obama did with MH370. The aircraft lost was a Boeing B777-300 built here in America and, teh majority of the passengers on board MH370 were PRC citizens!!! Amazing!!!

If i were you folks...I would keep my powder dry on MH017. IMHO. between the lie tellers, Obama, the Russians, and Ukraine....I think we, the general public...will never know what really happened.


38 posted on 07/22/2014 8:33:42 AM PDT by JLAGRAYFOX ( My only objective is to defeat and destroy Obama & his Democrat Party, politically!!!.)
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To: Uncle Chip

Any one who had a hand in deciding it was perfectly okay to allow flights in this region. The Ukrainians have not released the air traffic controller information on this flight. This is in their possession.


39 posted on 07/22/2014 8:33:57 AM PDT by FR_addict
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To: FR_addict

That area was an international flight path that hundreds of planes were still using on the day of the shootdown — and the Russians knew it and should have warned their BUK commanders accordingly as if they didn’t know already.


40 posted on 07/22/2014 8:37:15 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Rashputin
Which band of which tribe?

I was referring to the Russian-backed tribe of Borodai and the Two Igors.

41 posted on 07/22/2014 8:51:34 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip
LOL, gotcha.

IMHO, "it's all about misdirection, Stanley" and just like French preconceptions were the misdirection Germans took advantage of in WWII, the preconceptions the Two Igors had were the misdirection that played right into the hands of someone.

Call that someone fate if you don't want to single out who most benefits, but still, preconceptions leading to misdirection of the sort someone could and may have taken advantage of.

42 posted on 07/22/2014 9:00:14 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: JLAGRAYFOX
Well, you're no fun.

Throwing that bare bone of Truth into the pack chewing on the yummy organ meats of speculation.

Jeez, kill joy.

Tip o'the hat, Regards.

43 posted on 07/22/2014 9:06:54 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Uncle Chip
Many airlines were avoiding the area. USA airlines were told not to use it. Qantas and Cathay Pacific also quit flying the route.

Malaysian Air Flight Took Route Avoided by Qantas, Asiana

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-07-18/malaysian-airline-took-flight-route-avoided-by-qantas-asiana.html

The Ukrainians and Eurocontrol would absolutely know that there had been planes shot down in the area in the last week. Yet, they did not restrict the area until after the plane was downed.

44 posted on 07/22/2014 10:03:33 AM PDT by FR_addict
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To: FR_addict

So did the ICAO or did you forget them on purpose???


45 posted on 07/22/2014 10:06:55 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: bereanway

Easier to track over ground where many are keenly interested in what’s moving where, not so much over ocean when nobody cares and pilot is trying to hide.


46 posted on 07/22/2014 10:08:51 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ("If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun" - Obama, setting RoE with his opposition)
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To: Uncle Chip
But if they thought about it a little more they would have to ask themselves why is a transport plane at that altitude heading east within 3 minutes of Russian territory.

Yes some additional calculating on their part would have been warranted. At any rate, every plane flying over Eastern Ukraine is minutes from Russia.

47 posted on 07/22/2014 10:21:31 AM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: JLAGRAYFOX
Best advice of the day.

.I would keep my powder dry on MH017. IMHO. between the lie tellers, Obama, the Russians, and Ukraine....I think we, the general public...will never know what really happened.">

We could add the various militias, separatists, former KGBers and CIA mercs and hired PR experts for all sides to the stew of liars in that area.

48 posted on 07/22/2014 10:27:58 AM PDT by Grampa Dave ( Obama's Storm of Illegal immigrants, aka, new democRat voters and his 2016 FDR 3rd term attempt!)
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To: Uncle Chip
Malaysia Airlines crash prompts flight detours

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/17/travel/malaysia-airlines-crash-air-space/

Sounds like there is plenty of blame to go around. The FAA prohibited airspace above the Crimea, but not in this area. The US airlines had voluntarily decided to avoid the area.

“The Federal Aviation Administration said Thursday that U.S. airlines had voluntarily agreed not to operate in airspace near the Russian-Ukraine border. Later, the FAA issued a notice prohibiting U.S. flight operations in the airspace over eastern Ukraine until further notice.”

Also in article:

“In April, U.S. airlines were prohibited by the FAA from flying in airspace surrounding Crimea, but Thursday's crash site was not within what was considered restricted area.

The International Civil Aviation Organization and European Aviation Safety Agency also issued warnings in the spring against flying in the same area, the Simferopol Flight Information Region.

The crash occurred outside the warning area near the town of Torez in eastern Ukraine's Donetsk region.

“What I can't understand is why civilian airliners were flying over this area, which is just a huge error on their part,” said Bob Baer, a CNN national security analyst and former CIA agent.

Most airlines follow the guidelines and rules set by their national civil aviation authorities and fly the most direct route from their departure to their arrival city, said Mary Schiavo, former inspector general of the U.S. Department of Transportation.

The FAA and other national civil aviation authorities hadn't yet defined the area where the aircraft got shot down as part of the conflict zone in Ukraine, Schiavo said.”

49 posted on 07/22/2014 10:37:56 AM PDT by FR_addict
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To: FR_addict
At least the FAA stopped US flights to Tel Aviv just now because of danger.

FLIGHT DIVERTED AFTER ROCKET LANDS NEAR TLV
FAA CLOSES ROUTE TO ISRAEL

50 posted on 07/22/2014 10:43:09 AM PDT by FR_addict
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