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Ukrainian Su-25 fighter detected in close approach to MH17 before crash - Moscow
Autonomous Nonprofit Organization “TV-Novosti" ^ | July 22, 2014

Posted on 07/22/2014 8:34:48 AM PDT by McGruff

“A Ukraine Air Force military jet was detected gaining height, it’s distance from the Malaysian Boeing was 3 to 5km,” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, Lieutenant-General Andrey Kartopolov speaking at a media conference in Moscow on Monday.

“[We] would like to get an explanation as to why the military jet was flying along a civil aviation corridor at almost the same time and at the same level as a passenger plane,” he stated.

The presence of the Ukrainian military jet can be confirmed by video shots made by the Rostov monitoring center, Kartopolov stated.

At the moment of the MH17 crash an American satellite was flying over the area of eastern Ukraine, according to Russia’s Defense Ministry. It urged the US to publish the space photos and data captured by it. ‘Ukrainian Buk missile system transported to militia-held area’

In addition, MH17 crashed within the operating zone of the Ukrainian army’s self-propelled, medium-range surface-to-air ‘Buk’ missile systems, the Russian general said.

“We have space images of certain places where the Ukraine’s air defense was located in the southeast of the country,” Kartapolov noted.

The first three shots that were shown by the general are dated July 14. The images show Buk missile launch systems in about 8km northwest of the city of Lugansk – a TELAR and two TELs, according to the military official. Another image shows a radar station near Donetsk.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: mh17; russianbs; ukraine
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Pictures at link. There are two sides to every story.
1 posted on 07/22/2014 8:34:48 AM PDT by McGruff
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To: McGruff

Fog of War.


2 posted on 07/22/2014 8:35:58 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: McGruff

Russia forgets the internet is forever.

The Russians (er, “rebels”) in Crimea bragged about their shot in real time on Twitter, etc.

Only to find out it wasn’t the cargo plane they thought it was.


3 posted on 07/22/2014 8:36:49 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem)
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To: Jewbacca
Russia forgets the internet is forever.

Russia doesn't care that the internet is forever. And if anyone gets spunky on the web, Russia shuts them down. The LIVs in Russia are beyond hope . . . it's not even clear that they realize what is happening to them.

4 posted on 07/22/2014 8:40:40 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: McGruff

I thought the civilian jet was supposed to be hundreds of miles off course and not in a normal pattern, including flying lower than usual. The Ukranian jet was there to check things out, da?


5 posted on 07/22/2014 8:41:57 AM PDT by bubbacluck (America 180)
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To: McGruff

ROFL - this is why they were trying to change wikipedia entries and such yesterday to give the Su-25 the capability to do what they wanted to claim.


6 posted on 07/22/2014 8:42:22 AM PDT by Ingtar (The NSA - "We're the only part of government who actually listens to the people.")
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To: McGruff

Throw multiple globs of feces at the wall and one will possibly stick.


7 posted on 07/22/2014 8:42:44 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: Mike Darancette

It does appear that Russia will ride this horse, as it (also) appears to be the best in the stable. Some of the other Russian propaganda responses were just laughable.


8 posted on 07/22/2014 8:44:41 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: McGruff

In light of the recent Malaysia Airlines tragedies (one missing, one brought down by the Russians) I completed a project I began some time ago to remind us of an earlier Russian involved murder of hundreds of innocents. Will someone please remind obozo that it’s still a jungle out there!
(It’s a short 8 minutes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTgCIrUeuh0&list=UUFDlhK80EdO28R-iGTXiGaw


9 posted on 07/22/2014 8:46:01 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (Ignorance is NOT BLISS. It is the ROAD TO SERFDOM! We're on a ROAD TRIP!!)
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To: McGruff

Pictures at link. There are two sides to every story.

<>>><

So the Russians are admitting they (or their proxies) took MH17 down?

They are admitting that they took down the wrong plane?

It’s a bit surprising how much they know today about this other jet, but knew nothing about MH17, and where the missile came from that took it down.

They know exactly what happened and are obfuscating with barely connected details.

This has clearly been a very difficult week or so for FR’s resident FoP (fans of Putin).


10 posted on 07/22/2014 8:46:40 AM PDT by dmz
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To: McGruff

And I thought it was rogue elements of Bush supporters in the CIA that took out MH17.


11 posted on 07/22/2014 8:48:13 AM PDT by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: McGruff
"What difference, at this point, does it make !?"


12 posted on 07/22/2014 8:50:34 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: McGruff
If the rebel forces fired a missile at a passenger plane, that is a gross mistake.

But if they fired a missile at a Ukrainian SU-25, missed, and the missile re-targeted itself onto the passenger plane, it is a somewhat less egregious mistake and something more easily done by an inexperienced launch crew.

13 posted on 07/22/2014 8:51:16 AM PDT by tentmaker (Galt's Gulch is a state of mind...)
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To: 1rudeboy

A good analysis regarding the nonsense coming out of Moscow as it tries to avoid responsibility for murdering nearly 300 people on MH17 is:

MH17 and Moscow’s Magical Mystery Jets

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3183533/posts


14 posted on 07/22/2014 8:52:17 AM PDT by Agog
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To: Jewbacca

The Fog of war—the plane shouldn’t have been there in the first place. Now its just a propaganda prop—used by both sides.


15 posted on 07/22/2014 9:10:13 AM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll Onward! Ride to the sound of the guns!)
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To: McGruff

The SU-25 can’t fly at 33k feet.


16 posted on 07/22/2014 9:14:03 AM PDT by TexasGunLover ("Either you're with us or you're with the terrorists."-- President George W. Bush)
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To: tentmaker

“But if they fired a missile at a Ukrainian SU-25, missed, and the missile re-targeted itself onto the passenger plane, it is a somewhat less egregious mistake and something more easily done by an inexperienced launch crew.”

Two things.
First, air defense missiles don’t work that way.
Second, it is much more probable that the launch crew was Russian air defense, not some unskilled bunch of rubes.


17 posted on 07/22/2014 9:16:32 AM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: McGruff; Greetings_Puny_Humans; Grampa Dave

But you know that’s not true, don’t you Vlad:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3183533/posts#4


18 posted on 07/22/2014 9:18:01 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: McGruff

Man,
I seriously distrust our magic negro on Everything he says.
Ya trust them russians any better?
Nope.


19 posted on 07/22/2014 9:28:36 AM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) obammy lied and lied and lied)
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To: McGruff
Did Ukraine ATC re-direct MH-17 to the "war zone" ?

20 posted on 07/22/2014 9:30:46 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: TexasGunLover

“The SU-25 can’t fly at 33k feet.”

Correct. It’s a subsonic ground-attack fighter (think A-10) with a max of 23,000 with zero payload and a max speed that is probably less than a 777. With a couple of of air-to-air, I bet the top of its range is 19,000-20,000 ft. (I’d have to go look at my charts.)

I am not sure the Ukrainians have an air-to-air missile that would climb up another 15,000 feet.


21 posted on 07/22/2014 9:31:20 AM PDT by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem)
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To: McGruff

More pro-Putin neo-Soviet propaganda...


22 posted on 07/22/2014 9:32:19 AM PDT by Thunder90 (All posts soley represent my own opinion.)
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To: TexasGunLover

“The SU-25 can’t fly at 33k feet.”

ROFL! I guess propagandists never check their own facts. Hell, most probably don’t know about service ceilings. The SU-25 has a pathetic service ceiling of 23,000 feet.


23 posted on 07/22/2014 9:32:59 AM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
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To: McGruff

It wasn’t a frogger, it was Lois Lerner and Hillary riding brooms in hot pursuit of the Hard Drive.


24 posted on 07/22/2014 9:35:39 AM PDT by Rome2000
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To: TexasGunLover

Doesn’t need to go to 33K feet, an R-60 Air to Air missile (which can be carried by SU25) has a range of 8km or over 26,000 feet.


25 posted on 07/22/2014 9:50:28 AM PDT by JohnKinAK
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To: TexasGunLover
Wouldn't you know I had to excerpt the relevant paragraph.

The SU-25 fighter jet can gain an altitude of 10km, according to its specification,” he added. “It’s equipped with air-to-air R-60 missiles that can hit a target at a distance up to 12km, up to 5km for sure.”

Which converts to 32808.4ft if my calculator is right. And is that missile also limited in height?

26 posted on 07/22/2014 9:50:56 AM PDT by McGruff (There are none so blind as those who will not see)
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To: Jewbacca

So the Russians supply the Rebels with sophisticated surface to air missiles, but in the age of the NSA gobbling up every phone call, e-mail, and tweet they don’t supply them with a secure form of communications? The rebels communicate by Twitter and Cell Phones?


27 posted on 07/22/2014 9:53:17 AM PDT by JohnKinAK
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To: JohnKinAK

So then the witnesses of the SAM going up were all wrong, huh???


28 posted on 07/22/2014 10:00:08 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: McGruff

That’s 32,000 feet clean. Ceiling with armament is closer to 17,000 feet.


29 posted on 07/22/2014 10:05:20 AM PDT by Lower Deck
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To: Uncle Chip

What witness?


30 posted on 07/22/2014 10:10:16 AM PDT by JohnKinAK
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To: JohnKinAK

So you postulate your opinion without considering all the witnesses???

Forget it —


31 posted on 07/22/2014 10:15:33 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

You say there was witness, but I’ve seen no article pointing to that. But if there is one, I would want to who he or she is, and whether or not their testimony matches up with all other available evidence. It is you that is jumping to conclusions. It may have been the Russians, or the Rebels or the Ukranains. They all potentially have the capacity to do so. I do know the Russians have provided evidence (Sat Photos) of Ukrain moving a SAM launcher into the disputed area the day before. See Zerohedge for more info: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-21/russia-says-has-photos-ukraine-deploying-buk-missiles-east-rader-proof-warplanes-mh1


32 posted on 07/22/2014 10:31:27 AM PDT by JohnKinAK
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To: JohnKinAK

The rebel commander profusely claiming ‘they shot down the plane, See the parts coming off”, before they pulled the Tweet, sure sounds like an eye witness to me.


33 posted on 07/22/2014 10:40:04 AM PDT by X-spurt (CRUZ missile - armed and ready.)
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To: JohnKinAK

You haven’t been looking very hard —

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2697895/Now-rebel-commander-blamed-downing-MH17-says-bodies-aren-t-fresh-claims-corpses-dead-days.html


34 posted on 07/22/2014 10:47:44 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

There’s no witness listed in the article you linked. It’s nothing more than a propaganda piece rehashing the alleged twitter and youtube, which as I stated is not evidence as both are easily faked/hacked. The globalist MSM in the US and Europe print the accusations against Russia and don’t present any analysis of the truth or error of the accusations.
All propaganda, to inflame the public of Europe and the USA against Russia, to divide Russia from European commerce. Logical questions go un-asked.


35 posted on 07/22/2014 10:56:39 AM PDT by JohnKinAK
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To: McGruff

A subsonic SU25 is not the ideal design to chase aircrafts.


36 posted on 07/22/2014 10:58:15 AM PDT by lavaroise (A well regulated gun being necessary to the state, the rights of the militia shall not be infringed)
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To: JohnKinAK

Well see if you can find Igor Strelkov’s tweet on the net — he saw the whole thing and tweeted about it.


37 posted on 07/22/2014 11:00:55 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: McGruff

” said the head of the Main Operations Directorate of the HQ of Russia’s military forces, “

My chocolate Lab has more credibility than a representative of the Russian military.


38 posted on 07/22/2014 11:04:37 AM PDT by HereInTheHeartland (Obama lied; our healthcare died.)
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To: JohnKinAK

You might find his tweet in here:

How Long Before the Kremlin Fits DPR Commander Strelkov (Igor Girkin) with a Pair of Cement Shoes?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3183387/posts


39 posted on 07/22/2014 11:05:49 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: McGruff

...sooooo, what is the good Lt. General saying? Here’s a list of other things that could conceivably have happened... but it wasn’t us!

This guy is better than Jon Lovitz (and his girlfriend, Morgan Fairchild).


40 posted on 07/22/2014 11:07:40 AM PDT by Tallguy
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To: DugwayDuke

It depends on the type of missile that was used and even on the upgrade status of the “seeker” component.

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Legacy-SAM-Upgrades.html#mozTocId532833


41 posted on 07/22/2014 11:07:46 AM PDT by tentmaker (Galt's Gulch is a state of mind...)
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To: JohnKinAK
” ... an R-60 Air to Air missile (which can be carried by SU25) has a range of 8km or over 26,000 feet.”

According to this website, the practical range of the R-60 is 4km:

http://weaponsystems.net/weapon.php?weapon=HH07%20-%20R-60

And probably less if it has to climb to reach the target.

42 posted on 07/22/2014 11:12:40 AM PDT by riverdawg
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To: Uncle Chip

Again Twitter is evidence of nothing. It is completely hackable by anyone. The same goes with Facebook, and Youtube.


43 posted on 07/22/2014 12:30:21 PM PDT by JohnKinAK
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To: liege
>>>>>>>I thought the civilian jet was supposed to be hundreds of miles off course and not in a normal pattern, including flying lower than usual. The Ukranian jet was there to check things out, da?>>>>>

MH17 was on a flight path given to the pilot by Kiev ATC and flew at the altitude given by ATC. This flight path was some 300 miles north of usual flight paths MH17 used previously, and some 3,000 ft lower than usual.

However, there is something unusual. MH17 was not flying in the straight path like commercial airliners do. It suddenly veered off from the flight path like a driver avoiding a pothole and then returned to the flight path seconds before being shot down.

By what? Surface to air missile from below or Air to Air missile from an interceptor?

Ukrainian army had both available at the time MH17 crash occured. BUK M1 was operational, with acquisition radars illuminating sky and Flanker was less than 4 miles from MH17.

44 posted on 07/22/2014 12:40:06 PM PDT by DTA
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To: McGruff

Novosti is a Russian government news service


45 posted on 07/22/2014 12:43:24 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: McGruff

“Autonomous Non-profit Organization” ??

RIA Novosti Russian government-owned news service and is also parent of Channel 1, the largest TV network. It is 100% owned by the Federal government of Russia.


46 posted on 07/22/2014 12:50:39 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: JohnKinAK

Spending 4 days tampering with the evidence at the crime scene after that tweet sure is along with the fact that that missile strike was captured by satellites focused on the area.


47 posted on 07/22/2014 12:51:59 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Ingtar

When did the Moscow-owned news service become an autonomous non-profit organization?


48 posted on 07/22/2014 12:52:19 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: GeronL; Admin Moderator
Autonomous Nonprofit Organization “TV-Novosti" ^ | July 22, 2014

Some smart ass moderator did that.

49 posted on 07/22/2014 12:52:39 PM PDT by McGruff (There are none so blind as those who will not see)
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To: McGruff; Admin Moderator
Some smart ass moderator did that.

lol!!

Our moderators rock.

50 posted on 07/22/2014 12:55:36 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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