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Itís Time for Conservatives to Stop Defending Police
nationalreview ^

Posted on 07/22/2014 9:32:19 PM PDT by chessplayer

Imagine if I were to tell you there is a large group of government employees, with generous salaries and ridiculously cushy retirement pensions covered by the taxpayer, who enjoy incredible job security and are rarely held accountable even for activities that would almost certainly earn the rest of us prison time. When there is proven misconduct, these government employees are merely reassigned and are rarely dismissed. The bill for any legal settlements concerning their errors? It, too, is covered by the taxpayers. Their unions are among the strongest in the country.

No, I’m not talking about public-school teachers.

I’m talking about the police.

We conservatives recoil at the former; yet routinely defend the latter — even though, unlike teachers, police officers enjoy an utter monopoly on force and can ruin — or end — one’s life in a millisecond.

On Thursday in Staten Island, an asthmatic 43-year-old father of six, Eric Garner, died after a group of policemen descended on him, placing him in a chokehold while attempting to arrest him for allegedly selling cigarettes. A bystander managed to capture video in which Garner clearly cries out, “I can’t breathe!” Even after releasing the chokehold (chokeholds, incidentally, are prohibited by NYPD protocol), the same officer then proceeds to shove and hold Garner’s face against the ground, applying his body weight and pressure on Garner, ignoring Garner’s pleas that he cannot breathe. Worse yet, new video shows at least eight officers standing around Garner’s lifeless, unconscious body.

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: copsarescum; donutwatch; leo
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1 posted on 07/22/2014 9:32:19 PM PDT by chessplayer
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To: chessplayer

Quit that a very long time ago.


2 posted on 07/22/2014 9:35:42 PM PDT by 98ZJ USMC
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To: chessplayer

Not falling for it “chess player” or whoever the original author is.
I will support the peace keepers and enforcers until they are no longer law abiding. Bad cops are like homos; a small percentage of them make the rest of their kind look bad. Mthe vast majority are good guys so go try your divisive message on another conservative website.


3 posted on 07/22/2014 9:38:46 PM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: jsanders2001

What about the large number of cops that see the average, law-abiding citizen as the enemy?


4 posted on 07/22/2014 9:42:11 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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Comment #5 Removed by Moderator

To: Jack Hydrazine
"What about the large number of cops that see the average, law-abiding citizen as the enemy?"

Please provide a solid, fact based source.

6 posted on 07/22/2014 9:43:42 PM PDT by Respond Code Three (Support Free Republic lest we eventually get a Republic which is not free.)
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To: jsanders2001; chessplayer

I’m not buying it either.


7 posted on 07/22/2014 9:44:13 PM PDT by Respond Code Three (Support Free Republic lest we eventually get a Republic which is not free.)
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To: chessplayer

Cast out the baby with the bath water, shall we?

Most cops are good people who believe in what they do and try to make their communities better and safer.

Are there too many who don’t serve for the right reasons? Sure. But that is true of many honorable professions.

I do, and will, support my local force. That doesn’t mean standing up for the bad apples and it doesn’t mean blind obedience.

The politicians by and large remain the problem.


8 posted on 07/22/2014 9:45:16 PM PDT by BlueNgold (Have we crossed the line from Govt. in righteous fear of the People - to a People in fear of Govt??)
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To: chessplayer
My support ended when they went here:

I think tea party people at the local level should support revising rules of engagement for the militarized police, and change training back to being a police officer rather than a assault force. Its pretty easy to campaign against shooting puppies.

9 posted on 07/22/2014 9:47:05 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: null and void

Of possible interest.


11 posted on 07/22/2014 9:49:23 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: Respond Code Three

I’ve run into a number of them over my life. Plus, we have more SWAT teams than ever that are used about 40,000 or more times a year for the most minor of violations of the law when they were intended to be used for only the most dangerous situations.


12 posted on 07/22/2014 9:50:27 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: Respond Code Three

How about the ever-increasing number of dogs being shot and killed by them? You must be a big proponent of that, right?


13 posted on 07/22/2014 9:51:30 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: jsanders2001
The majority are good guys. The consequences of a run-in with the wrong one however, can be fatal. Police are the branch of the government authorized to use deadly force against you solely on the basis of their own discretion. No due process, no lawyers, no court hearings, no nothing.

If you wait until "they are no longer law abiding," at least your family may be able to make some money off a wrongful death suit.

Police are the reason George Washington observed that "Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearful master."

14 posted on 07/22/2014 9:52:40 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: chessplayer

I think cops used to do their jobs, use minimum force and respect citizens much more. I wasn’t ashamed in the least to support cops and always give them the benefit of the doubt.

Anyone dissing the cops? That person is a criminal!

Charlton Heston publicly balled out Ice Tea for his anti-cop rhetoric, and I felt as Moses did.

Now? I’m not so sure. Use of force Is Cool and the cops have tats and listen to the same rap that their customers do.

The cops lost the dignity they once had and I’m studiously neutral to them now.


15 posted on 07/22/2014 9:54:13 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: chessplayer

There will always be the good and the bad in any profession. Having said that, the bad seeds who find their way into positions of trust like law enforcement are the worst of the worst in terms of the harm they can cause.

I’m a police officer. I have seen fine, upstanding officers railroaded and I’ve seen ones who are like Satan himself skate on everything they do. And I am sure most everyone here has seen that phenomenon in whatever line of work you are in, it just is more dangerous in this one.


16 posted on 07/22/2014 9:54:16 PM PDT by KJC1 (When you are dealing with the devil, the only answer is God.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

I was pretty much unconditional in my support of LEO’s, until all the dog shootings. And they seem to have become too militarized.


17 posted on 07/22/2014 9:54:56 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: BlueNgold

That doesn’t mean standing up for the bad apples and it doesn’t mean blind obedience.

You don’t have to. The rest of the cops will do that.


18 posted on 07/22/2014 9:55:11 PM PDT by VerySadAmerican (Liberals were raised by women or wimps. And they're all stupid.)
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To: Respond Code Three

Would you like me to post an endless number of articles of police abusing their power to the point of murder?


19 posted on 07/22/2014 9:55:35 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: jsanders2001
Bad cops are like homos; a small percentage of them make the rest of their kind look bad.

Let's correct that a little bit.. Bad court rulings allow bad cops to get off with their brutality. Shoot a kid holding an airsoft rifle? Totally immune from prosecution because 'police hold a special status; it is expected that failure to immediately follow police directives is in itself an indication of life threatening danger.' Think the worst case in Robocop; you have five seconds to comply before your life is ended.

So, yes, I support the police. I also support holding them (and every public employee) to the same laws and regulations that I must endure. I expect them to face the same prosecution for shooting someone that I would face if I had done the deed.

Bad laws, bad court decisions, make for bad cops.

20 posted on 07/22/2014 9:57:01 PM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: chessplayer

Imagine if I were to tell you there is a large group of government employees, with generous salaries and ridiculously cushy retirement pensions covered by the taxpayer, who enjoy incredible job security...

In spite of the benefits, there are continuous openings for police officers around where I live and there have been for years. Firemen are a different story.


21 posted on 07/22/2014 9:57:35 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: jsanders2001

I will support the peace keepers and enforcers until they are no longer law abiding.

Yep. Police officers have the same rights as anyone else when they are accused.


22 posted on 07/22/2014 9:58:54 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: jsanders2001

“Mthe vast majority are good guys so go try your divisive message on another conservative website.”

I don’t hold your view...


23 posted on 07/22/2014 10:01:59 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: All

I can make the nicest cop go loony in about 5 minutes.

Nope, I’m not a fan. The police of yesterday aren’t the same as the police of today. The people may not be either - but that’s no damned excuse.

When they recognize my unique ability to be reasonable, intelligent and well rounded - I’ll recognize theirs. Until then I’ll be harassed for my appearance, my car’s condition or my gun at my hip.

So until they back off, I ain’t backin’ off. No sir, Not a fan.


24 posted on 07/22/2014 10:02:00 PM PDT by Celerity
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To: chessplayer

Do you mean blindly defending the police, or defending the police at all?

If you mean blindly defending police without examining the facts I will agree with you.

But if you mean to suggest we never defend a police officer anytime, anywhere for no reason other than he/she wears a blue shirt, my answer is ‘no’.

There are good cops and bad cops, quite obviously.


25 posted on 07/22/2014 10:02:22 PM PDT by MichaelCorleone (Jesus Christ is not a religion. He's the Truth.)
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To: KJC1
I’m a police officer. I have seen fine, upstanding officers railroaded and I’ve seen ones who are like Satan himself skate on everything they do. And I am sure most everyone here has seen that phenomenon in whatever line of work you are in, it just is more dangerous in this one.

And what I said about bad court decisions and bad laws goes both ways. While cops should face the same laws as the rest of us, criminals should be virtually barred from the court system and the infinite abuse of that system. Another place where bad court decisions and bad laws desperately needs to be fixed.

26 posted on 07/22/2014 10:04:18 PM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: jsanders2001
Yes. Coppers are like lawyers -and support each other fully.

98.8% of them provide a bad example for the rest.

I am reminded of the old whisper that most laboratories have replaced the standard white rat with black and brown ones due to 'multiculturalism', and in many cases with either lawyers or on- or off- duty cops (the lines are often blurred) for two major reasons.

First, the researchers were becoming attached to the rats...

And second, because there are some things that rats simply WILL NOT do.

27 posted on 07/22/2014 10:06:38 PM PDT by Utilizer (Bacon A'kbar! - In world today are only peaceful people, and the mooslimbs trying to kill them-)
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To: Respond Code Three

Personal experience is fact based.


28 posted on 07/22/2014 10:08:34 PM PDT by reasonisfaith ("...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2 Thessalonians))
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To: chessplayer

I read stories about police officers shooting a beloved family pet or use excessive force to apprehend a suspect. The thing to remember is that these stories are reported by our less than unbiased media. Sure, there are police officers who behave like storm troopers, but before you believe every story you read, see or hear about these abuses, be aware that there may be facts omitted from the media story that may justify the actions of the officer or officers in question.

There is a local story going around about a gay pride parade participant who alleged she was assaulted by a police officer. For weeks the local media showed a video of the “victim” allegedly being assaulted by an officer. However, additional photographs have surfaced showing the “victim” beating up on the officer as he was trying to arrest her. I’m guessing the officer felt he had to use force to subdue her or she could have caused serious injury to him or others nearby.

Bad enough the courts have made law enforcement nearly impossible. The media too has been complicit in trying to destroy whatever law enforcement still available by putting out half true or utterly false stories. I see it all as the communists’ efforts to dismantle every institution available for peace and our protection. So we shouldn’t accept at face value every story put out by the propaganda ministry.


29 posted on 07/22/2014 10:09:29 PM PDT by fatnotlazy
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To: Respond Code Three

I can attest to personally knowing three ex- cops that have affirmed it as a fact and one of the reasons they left.


30 posted on 07/22/2014 10:10:14 PM PDT by Utilizer (Bacon A'kbar! - In world today are only peaceful people, and the mooslimbs trying to kill them-)
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To: kingu
Totally immune from prosecution because 'police hold a special status; it is expected that failure to immediately follow police directives is in itself an indication of life threatening danger.' Think the worst case in Robocop; you have five seconds to comply before your life is ended.

Ya change that and it all changes including reckless wild pursuits which also kill and injure innocents.

I'd love to have total immunity. Or like government state schools, where teachers/professors get what they call tenure...

BTW, how does one get tenure in the private sector? Where it takes an act of Congress to fire someone. In the real world of the private sector, your told, "You can be fired for any reason at all, and your liable for anything you do".

31 posted on 07/22/2014 10:10:17 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Celerity
I can make the nicest cop go loony in about 5 minutes.

No you can't. I've never gone "loony" on any contact, no matter how obnoxious/insulting/violent a person has been. And neither have so many other decent officers LOL.

32 posted on 07/22/2014 10:12:32 PM PDT by KJC1 (When you are dealing with the devil, the only answer is God.)
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To: BlueNgold

Most cops stand solidly behind The Blue Line, and will not out the “few” *cough* that enguage in questionable (at best) actions -and if they do, they are ostracized by the rest.


33 posted on 07/22/2014 10:13:20 PM PDT by Utilizer (Bacon A'kbar! - In world today are only peaceful people, and the mooslimbs trying to kill them-)
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To: null and void

Ping.


34 posted on 07/22/2014 10:15:39 PM PDT by TADSLOS (The Event Horizon has come and gone. Buckle up and hang on.)
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To: Moonman62
The same rights as everyone else?! Go accuse a policemen of lying at a traffic stop. Will it be your word against his? No the cop is assumed to be telling the truth. Shot your dog because it "attacked" him? Assumed to be telling the truth. Some kid walking from his friend house to his own house has something in his hand and the cop that shoots him claims it was an AK when it was a wireless Xbox controller? Assumed to be telling the truth. Cops ram a pickup and then shoot it up, ineptly not even wounding the driver , and say "sorry we thought you were a wanted fugitive", despite the truck being a different make, model, and color than the fugitives vehicle and despite the owner of the truck was a foot shorter weighed 100 pounds less and was white where the fugitive was black they are assumed to be telling the truth.

Maybe I'm over reacting though. Let's try an thought experiment. Imagine you are walking down the street and you shoot a guy talking on his phone and say "He had something in his hand, I thought it was a gun" what is it that you think would happen to you? What do you think would happen to a cop?

35 posted on 07/22/2014 10:18:06 PM PDT by Durus (You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
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To: BlueNgold

Most,if not all the other, honorable profession cant end your career or life in a millisecond.


36 posted on 07/22/2014 10:21:31 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life's tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: jsanders2001
I will support the peace keepers and enforcers until they are no longer law abiding. Bad cops are like homos; a small percentage of them make the rest of their kind look bad.

Your problem, is like that of a lot of others, they expect the cops to police themselves but they seem unwilling to do that. There are some rare exceptions that suffer repercussions for crossing the blue line.

That leaves you all with the puzzle: are these other cops condoning this behavior by not speaking out, or do they perhaps engage in it themselves periodically?

That fat taxpayer pension for a lifetime of doughnut patrols and easy money are hard to jeopardize, no doubt.

Lots of questions, but all lead back to your premise that most cops are the good guys. That sort of narrows it down, no?

37 posted on 07/22/2014 10:24:55 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: reasonisfaith; Utilizer

Not good enough.


38 posted on 07/22/2014 10:26:12 PM PDT by Respond Code Three (Support Free Republic lest we eventually get a Republic which is not free.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine
Would you like me to post an endless number of articles of police abusing their power to the point of murder?

Pointless.

39 posted on 07/22/2014 10:27:50 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: Jack Hydrazine
"What about the large number of cops that see the average, law-abiding citizen as the enemy?"

Your posts #12, #13, and #19 do not support your statement. You have failed to sustain your assertion by going on to other matters. I pronounce your assertion as invalid and mere opinion.

40 posted on 07/22/2014 10:30:52 PM PDT by Respond Code Three (Support Free Republic lest we eventually get a Republic which is not free.)
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To: jsanders2001; chessplayer

But you’re just refering to the so-call bad apple.

There is a much bigger picture to see here.

What many Americans are finding quite disturbing and are questioning are entire departments ramping up into military style units, buying up military war vehicles, using military tactics etc.

In fact why is it we now have hundreds of times more SWAT military commando style teams than just a couple decades ago? We’re talking even small rural departments now have their own military style swat teams. And look at all these govenrment departments, as they too have developed their own militarized units, like the Department of Education, etc.

It’s to the point where they are being used in all kinds of situations, where they were initially ONLY designed for extremely violent people and or violent hostage situations.

Looking at the bigger picture and these trends are very alarming for those paying attention.


41 posted on 07/22/2014 10:30:54 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: chessplayer

The author would do well to use another case than the one in NYC. There are plenty. The “victim” died of a heart attack, not from the choke or control hold the officer was attempting to apply. It was a lawful arrest and the very large man was resisting.


42 posted on 07/22/2014 10:31:53 PM PDT by Eagles6 (Valley Forge Redux. If not now, when? If not here, where?)
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To: Respond Code Three

Let other FReepers feel free to chime in.


43 posted on 07/22/2014 10:33:59 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: KJC1

Oh, I’m not talking about being annoying. I can be level headed and respectful. I wouldn’t push anyone over the edge by being a dick.

I’ll push you over the edge by being very rational and well-stated.


44 posted on 07/22/2014 10:35:24 PM PDT by Celerity
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To: Respond Code Three; Jack Hydrazine

How about #41 code three?

Are these concerns unfounded and invalid?


45 posted on 07/22/2014 10:36:38 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Durus

The Chris Dorner case had an erie feeling that an order was given to all LEO:
“Chris Dorner; Wanted. Dead or Alive....Dead would good too”.

LEO’s assaulted people who couldn’t possibly fit the description and damned near killed a few.

How does that go unanswered, as a matter of law, like any citizen?


46 posted on 07/22/2014 10:38:25 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: chessplayer
Tuscon Riot Cop Being a man.

What manly men they have "on the force" all over America these days.

47 posted on 07/22/2014 10:39:32 PM PDT by rednesss (fascism is the union,marriage,merger or fusion of corporate economic power with governmental power)
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To: dragnet2

All that in the face of violent crime that has dropped to record lows.


48 posted on 07/22/2014 10:47:01 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: Utilizer
P.S: Yes, I left out the "thin" in "The Thin Blue Line" reference on purpose.

The "thin" part of that reference in personal experience is about a mile wide in real life. So yes, there is no "thin" for the majority of us who are not LEOs.

We are (non-LEOs) all either "Perps", or "Uncaught Perps". And yes, I had a female Corrections Officer tell Me that at a bar when she was deciding whether or not to interact with Me, so I know it is not a solitary mindset.

Sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities.

49 posted on 07/22/2014 10:47:36 PM PDT by Utilizer (Bacon A'kbar! - In world today are only peaceful people, and the mooslimbs trying to kill them-)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

It’s not true.


50 posted on 07/22/2014 10:48:29 PM PDT by BunnySlippers (I LOVE BULL MARKETS . . .)
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