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The terrible cost of thwarting Hamas [Israel]
The Times of Israel ^ | Wednesday, July 23, 2014 | David Horovitz

Posted on 07/23/2014 6:25:39 AM PDT by Star Traveler

Israel’s mood at the start of this war with Hamas was one of confident assurance. We wouldn’t be deterred by the rocket threat, and Hamas would be contained.

That’s utterly changed. The rockets turned out to be the least of our concerns. And the national mood now is a mixture of anguish at the growing toll of IDF dead, anger at the feckless response of parts of the international community — notably the US — and confidence in the troops and (atypically) the political leadership.

To lose the lives of 30 Israelis to terrorism is, appallingly, nothing new in a country that survived the suicide bombing onslaught of the second intifada. As the former Shin Bet intelligence chief Avi Dichter pointed out on Tuesday, 30 Israelis were killed in a single Hamas suicide bombing at the Park Hotel in Netanya on Passover Eve March 27, 2002. That was the worst, but still only one of dozens upon dozens of bombings that battered Israel’s buses, restaurants and shopping malls a decade ago.

But to lose 30 soldiers battling vicious Islamic extremists in Gaza produces anguish of a different nature. Our soldiers are our future. They’re the youngsters among us, who have been required because of Israel’s unique geographic and geostrategic peril to place themselves on the front line for years of service before their young lives have really begun. We feel guilty that we’ve pitched them into war. We, the safe civilians, draw our strength from the sky-high level of their determination and motivation to protect us. We wish it were us, the grownups, who were on the front line. We’d have much preferred for the rockets, targeting all of us, to have been the chief threat.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesofisrael.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: hamas; israel
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The toll on the Israelis is taking hold.
1 posted on 07/23/2014 6:25:39 AM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: Star Traveler

That’s why Hamas must be wiped out once and for all.


2 posted on 07/23/2014 6:27:29 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

How do you propose this be accomplished?


3 posted on 07/23/2014 6:29:05 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (Perception wins all the battles. Reality wins all the wars.)
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To: Star Traveler
The toll on the Israelis is taking hold

Duh.

As I keep saying, Israel has two choices (as do we) - victory or surrender.

Not only do they not fight to win (nor do we), but they constantly brag about how hard they are working NOT to win.

They warn civilians when they should be incinerating them by the thousands. We build schools for girls in Afghanistan when we should be nuking the place.

The opposite of "victory" is "defeat", and when you choose NOT to win, you are choosing to lose.

4 posted on 07/23/2014 6:33:04 AM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise. Hat)
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To: Sherman Logan

How do you propose this be accomplished?

The LORD God Almighty promises to fight Israel’s battle for them if they turn to Him.

One Way: JESUS!


5 posted on 07/23/2014 6:34:14 AM PDT by stars & stripes forever (Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord.)
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To: Star Traveler

Despite your repeated negative posts,
Israel won the battles of Shejaiya, Rafah and Khan Younes,
and found tunnels, paid for by Obama and the UN,
leading to Israeli kindergartens
which will be dismantled.

Israel has allied with Egypt, Saudi Arabia and some
of the EU against Turkey, Qatar and the US State Dept
which are on the side of Hamas (and al Qaeda).


6 posted on 07/23/2014 6:34:41 AM PDT by Diogenesis (The EXEMPT Congress is complicit in the absence of impeachment)
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To: Star Traveler

If you’re getting a greater than 10:1 ratio of Dead Terrorists : Israeli Heroes, then you’re doing pretty well. Keep it up.

Freedom isn’t free.

But make sure the other guy pays for evil by at least one order of magnitude.


7 posted on 07/23/2014 6:35:11 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (The GOP-e scum enlisted Democrats to steal the Republican primary. The GOP-e can go to Hell.)
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To: Star Traveler

If Horovitz has his way that will be the case.

The mood in Israel is entirely supportive of the war effort and opposed to the efforts of Obama/Kerry to impose a ceasefire. The recognize that the destruction of the tunnels will have to continue for some time, but they really have embraced the “keep calm and carry on” mood of London during the blitz.

Not that this mood is guaranteed to stay in place, but as of now it is only a small group of leftists in Tel Aviv and Haifa who are losing their confidence about this operation.


8 posted on 07/23/2014 6:38:57 AM PDT by Piranha (Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have - Saul Alinsky)
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To: Diogenesis

You haven’t been following my posts, then, because I was the first one here on Free a Republic to let people know about the new alignment that Israel had with Egypt ... and also why ... :-) ...


9 posted on 07/23/2014 6:40:58 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: stars & stripes forever

I wouldn’t recommend holding your breath while waiting for Israel to convert to Christianity.


10 posted on 07/23/2014 6:41:25 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (Perception wins all the battles. Reality wins all the wars.)
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To: stars & stripes forever

“All of Israel” is saved and turns to Jesus, the Messiah of Israel, only on the very day of him returning to earth.

That solution you provide is not going to help right now.


11 posted on 07/23/2014 6:43:32 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Sherman Logan

... LOL ... true that ... or any other nation in the world ... :-) ...

It’s not a practical solution for winning wars. Of course Jesus never said one’s personal salvation was for winning wars!


12 posted on 07/23/2014 6:45:29 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Piranha

I’m sure the majority is supportive, because what other alternative do they have? ... none!

But they are groaning, in the meantime.


13 posted on 07/23/2014 6:48:00 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Diogenesis

Israel’s morale is great and the country is grateful for the international support that to continues to receive.

Just yesterday 30,000 Israelis showed up for a funeral for a “lone soldier” who moved to Israel without his family from Los Angeles and was killed in combat.

These are not dispirited people quaking in their boots and afraid to go out in public.

Thirty thousand!


14 posted on 07/23/2014 6:48:12 AM PDT by Piranha (Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have - Saul Alinsky)
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To: Star Traveler
But to lose 30 soldiers battling

Huh?

It's a war.

Soldiers kill each other and break stuff. That's what happens in war.

To think that one can go to war, and not have any of one's soldiers die is the height of stupidity ... or hubris.

What does the author expect?

15 posted on 07/23/2014 6:48:18 AM PDT by NorthMountain
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To: Sherman Logan; dfwgator
How do you propose this be accomplished?

Quit sending them billions of dollars every year.

16 posted on 07/23/2014 6:50:05 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (Lost my tagline on Flight MH370. Sorry for the inconvenience.)
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To: Jim Noble

I fully back Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and how he has chosen to go about this fight, along with backing the IDF 100% in how they go about it in their statements of avoiding collateral damage as much as humanly possible.


17 posted on 07/23/2014 6:50:59 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

I get tired of calls to “destroy” or “crush” an enemy without some explanation of how this can be done.

Israel has the capacity to kill every single inhabitant of Gaza. For a host of reasons, some good, others not so much, they cannot use their power to do so.

Which means crushing Hamas can only be done by separating it from the other inhabitants. Which cannot be done as long as the people of Gaza are willing to provide a sea in which Hamas can swim. There is, of course, zero evidence of any rejection by Gazans of Hamas similar to the Sunni Uprising that rejected and expelled al Quaeda in Iraq a few years back.


18 posted on 07/23/2014 6:52:56 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (Perception wins all the battles. Reality wins all the wars.)
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To: Piranha
Israel is like Britain during the Blitz.


19 posted on 07/23/2014 6:53:24 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: NorthMountain

A consequence of the hi-tech wars we’ve had. People now think of war as some kind of video game.


20 posted on 07/23/2014 6:54:28 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Sherman Logan

Israel isn’t going to convert to Christianity; the remnant of Israel is going to recognize Jesus as their Messiah when He returns. The same God who says this also says through His prophets and in the New Testament through His Son and the apostles that ISRAEL WILL NOT BE DESTROYED.

There are going to be more than a few battles, but God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of the Christians, will deal with the nations who have come up against Israel.

Where does that put us? Our illustrious leader has pitted us against Israel.


21 posted on 07/23/2014 6:54:31 AM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: UCANSEE2

The USA doesn’t send Hamas billions a year. The USA doesn’t send a penny a year to Hamas in Gaza.

The USA does send humanitarian aid to the Palestinians, and so does Israel and a lot of other countries. Israel doesn’t have any problem with this as the government of Israel and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu have said their fight is not with Palestinian civilians, but with Hamas, the terrorist organization.


22 posted on 07/23/2014 6:55:51 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

Where do you think that “Humanitarian” money ultimately goes?


23 posted on 07/23/2014 6:56:39 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: UCANSEE2
Quit sending them billions of dollars every year.

US aid to Gaza is under $200M/year, with little if any of that going to Hamas. They no doubt manage to get their hands on some of it anyway, but not because we give it to them.

Hamas gets support from rich Gulf states, they don't need money from us.

24 posted on 07/23/2014 6:58:02 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (Perception wins all the battles. Reality wins all the wars.)
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To: Sherman Logan
Hamas gets support from rich Gulf states, they don't need money from us.

Including our "friends", the Saudis.

25 posted on 07/23/2014 6:58:53 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: TurkeyLurkey

No doubt. None of which provides a strategy for “winning” this conflict with Hamas.


26 posted on 07/23/2014 6:59:14 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (Perception wins all the battles. Reality wins all the wars.)
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To: NorthMountain

You don’t understand - then - Israel grieving over just ONE killed, much less 30!

They have a different mentality about it, than your post exhibits.


27 posted on 07/23/2014 7:00:49 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

Despite your claim,
the USA supports Hamas, the Moslem Brotherhood,
the “rebels”, and even the Islamic terrorists
who grabbed hundreds of girls in Africa.


28 posted on 07/23/2014 7:01:26 AM PDT by Diogenesis (The EXEMPT Congress is complicit in the absence of impeachment)
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To: Star Traveler

All of Israel is the 1/3 remnant of Jews who will survive the attacks by the nations

Zechariah 13:8-9, when the Shepherd comes again:

“And it will come about in all the land,” declares the LORD,
“that two parts in it will be cut off and perish; but the third will be left in it. And I will bring the third part through the fire, refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, and I will answer them; I will say; ‘they are My people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’”

Also Zechariah 14 describes God’s Battle with Jerusalem’s Foes (the Nations).


29 posted on 07/23/2014 7:04:28 AM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: dfwgator

It doesn’t ultimately go to Hamas, if that’s what you mean.

Just like in our society, where there are criminals who insert themselves into all levels of our society, from normal companies, to the police, to judges, to agencies of the government ... since we find that in the USA, you’ll find that in Gaza. But we don’t shutter a company in the USA because we found a criminal or two in it.

So, just as criminals here in the USA benefit by a functioning and working society and the benefits from that society ... Hamas can benefit from being in a society there too ..but we don’t shut down society because there are criminals who benefit from society being there.


30 posted on 07/23/2014 7:07:10 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
You are disingenuous.

The money goes directly to Hamas
for rockets to kill Jews and Israelis,
for weapons to kill Jews and Israelis,
for tunnels to kill and kidnap Jews and Israelis.

The money, including US Taxpayer money, goes to Hamas, and the murderous terrorists in Africa where Lerner even BACKDATED the form.

31 posted on 07/23/2014 7:10:48 AM PDT by Diogenesis (The EXEMPT Congress is complicit in the absence of impeachment)
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To: TurkeyLurkey

“All of Israel” ... is ... all who are alive then ...

It would be the same today, if I said “all of Israel” in some statement to you right now — I’m definitely not talking about the dead people ... LOL ...

SO ... yes ... ALL of Israel will be saved on the day the Messiah of Israel returns!


32 posted on 07/23/2014 7:11:02 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Diogenesis

Yes, the US government is an active supporter of Hamas and the Most fanatic Islamofascists in Syria. The US government gave $900 million to Hamas in 2009 after its violent coup d’etat (if you can call Abbas’s administration an etat). The Obama administration never has wavered in its support of Hamas.


33 posted on 07/23/2014 7:12:21 AM PDT by Piranha (Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have - Saul Alinsky)
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To: Diogenesis

You’re trying your best to make that false statement of yours to be true, but according to all the facts presented and that exist ... it is not true ... anymore than it is true here in the USA that we as a society support crime like murder and theft and assaults, because these criminals manage to steal and extort money here in the USA, and commit those crimes!


34 posted on 07/23/2014 7:14:29 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

Have I made my point, yet?

35 posted on 07/23/2014 7:15:58 AM PDT by NorthMountain
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To: dfwgator

Apparently, we just “don’t understand”.


36 posted on 07/23/2014 7:16:45 AM PDT by NorthMountain
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To: Piranha

Sorry to disappoint you, but it’s against the law in the USA for the government (or anyone else) to give money or arms to Hamas, which is an officially designated terrorist organization, per USA official documents.


37 posted on 07/23/2014 7:16:55 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: NorthMountain

And you think that is going to change the way the Israelis think about it?


38 posted on 07/23/2014 7:18:18 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
Sorry to disappoint you, but it’s against the law in the USA for the government (or anyone else) to give money or arms to Hamas, which is an officially designated terrorist organization, per USA official documents.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Like that ever stopped anyone.

39 posted on 07/23/2014 7:19:07 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Star Traveler

Israel is a small country and thirty deaths is a lot. But.... how many hamas hajis are dead? In urban close fighting you cannot avoid casualties (look at our fighting in Fallujah and Sadr City). The IDF should keep it up though so they don’t have to pay more in blood later.


40 posted on 07/23/2014 7:21:10 AM PDT by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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To: Star Traveler
It illustrates reality.

The Israelis can deal with it, or not, as they see fit ... but the reality remains.

41 posted on 07/23/2014 7:21:55 AM PDT by NorthMountain
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To: Star Traveler
The US government supports Hamas and other terrorists.

Tell the truth ... if you can.

EVEN cartoonists knew it, years ago.


42 posted on 07/23/2014 7:22:43 AM PDT by Diogenesis (The EXEMPT Congress is complicit in the absence of impeachment)
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To: Diogenesis

Not Boko Harem or Hamas, but yes in regards to the Libyan and Syrian rebels ... just like the USA supported the Mujahideen in Afghanistan (which Reagan did there) ... who then came back and attacked us on 9/11/2001!

The USA does a lot of that type of stuff like the Mujahideen in Afghanistan ... but they are are not doing it with Hamas or Boko Harem.


43 posted on 07/23/2014 7:23:30 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: NorthMountain

Where is this please?

44 posted on 07/23/2014 7:24:50 AM PDT by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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To: Sherman Logan

A peace treaty with Israel has to be made 7 literal years before the Messiah returns.

Scenario:

Israel will win these preliminary battles, then nations will be hollering for peace; a man (THE antichrist) will arise who will broker the deal. All the world will look to him as their savior, sorta like our country looked to Obama (no, I’m not saying O is the antichrist, but just to show how easy it is to visualize nations blindly following after one man).

Under the treaty Israel will build a temple and offer sacrifices. Peace will last 3 1/2 years, when the antichrist will put an end to sacrifice and offering and stand in the temple, demanding worship.
Then follows 3 1/2 of hell on earth, so to speak, against Israel and all who might stand with them.

[The above is a summary, not every detail.]

Then the Messiah returns, deals with these nations, the antichrist and the false prophet. Then He will rule and reign over the earth from Jerusalem.

His people the Jews will all know Him and will teach the rest of the nations of the world.

Zechariah 14:16-17 says,

“Then it will come about that any who are left of all the nations that went against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Booths. And it will be that whichever of the families of the earth does not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them.

Read Zechariah 13:8 through Zechariah 14:21.


45 posted on 07/23/2014 7:25:22 AM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: Diogenesis

Sorry, as I pointed out earlier, the USA does not give money or any arms to Hamas in Gaza. There is nothing showing that at all.

The problem you have is mixing up Hamas, the terrorist organization, with the Palestinian civilians who live in a Gaza. The USA does send humanitarian aid to the Palestinians, and so does Israel and a lot of other countries. Israel doesn’t have any problem with this.

The government of Israel and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu have said their fight is not with Palestinian civilians, but with Hamas, the terrorist organization.


46 posted on 07/23/2014 7:27:23 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

According to the Scriptures all of Israel who are alive, that is, who are left, is 1/3 of those living in the land.


47 posted on 07/23/2014 7:28:02 AM PDT by TurkeyLurkey
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To: Diogenesis; Star Traveler

Diog, you left out something:

Please add that “Kerry goes to the Jews to befuddle, skuttle and betray them.”

As for this writer, it reads like psy-ops to demoralize.


48 posted on 07/23/2014 7:28:13 AM PDT by RitaOK ( VIVA CRISTO REY / Public education is the farm team for more Marxists coming.)
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To: Star Traveler

Nevertheless, it moves.

The US under Obama has been one of the main sponsors of the Hamas terror organization beginning with its $900 million grant to the terrorists in 2009.


49 posted on 07/23/2014 7:28:48 AM PDT by Piranha (Power is not only what you have but what the enemy thinks you have - Saul Alinsky)
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To: Rummyfan

That’s the American Cemetery in Normandy, France.

Each white dot is a grave marker.

It, and many other things, remind us of the very high cost of defending liberty and defeating evil. Evil doesn’t just roll over when confronted ... it fights. And good men, fighting for a good cause, die. Horribly. In large numbers. A nation which forgets this is doomed.


50 posted on 07/23/2014 7:28:55 AM PDT by NorthMountain
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