Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

U.S. Officials Lay Out Case Against Russia
WSJ ^ | July 22, 2014 | Siobhan Gormon and Paul Sonne

Posted on 07/23/2014 8:59:56 AM PDT by 1rudeboy

Washington Seeks to Counter Russian Claims About MH17 Crash

U.S. intelligence officials presented reporters with their most detailed case yet Tuesday that Russian-backed Ukrainian separatists shot down a Malaysia Airlines jetliner last week, in a bid to counter what American officials see as Russian efforts to muddy the waters with claims of Ukrainian culpability.

The officials relied on photographs, social media, and voiceprint analysis of Ukrainian communications intercepts to make their public case that a likely SA-11 antiaircraft weapon fired from separatist-controlled territory shot down the commercial airliner, killing 298 people on board.

The evidence cited, however, didn't raise the case for Russian involvement in the shoot-down to a new level of certainty. Officials said they are still working to refine evidence and may offer more in coming days.

Other U.S. officials, including some at the Pentagon, have said more assertively in recent days that Russia likely provided the missile system used by separatists to shoot down Flight 17. The more restrained presentation by intelligence officials Tuesday reflected the cautious nature of intelligence analysis.

[]

Locals in the rebel-held city of Torez said on Tuesday that on the day Flight 17 went down, they spotted an SA-11, or Buk, missile on a flatbed truck traveling through the town center toward the alleged launch site.

One Torez resident who works on the main road said the SA-11 was notable because he hadn't seen such a sophisticated ground-to-air missile system among the many military vehicles that had rolled through Torez since fighting began. He said what looked like the same truck later came back through town going the other way, without the missile.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-141 next last
Rebels began barring news outlets from entering [Snizhne--the alleged location of the launch site] on Tuesday, as interest over the suggested missile launch site grew.
1 posted on 07/23/2014 8:59:56 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

OK, so what? Not our problem.


2 posted on 07/23/2014 9:01:31 AM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

Kerry Makes Yet Another Dangerous Rush to Judgment (Malaysian flight MH17)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3183835/posts


3 posted on 07/23/2014 9:02:11 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Timber Rattler

Thank you, Mr. Paul.


4 posted on 07/23/2014 9:03:15 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Timber Rattler

Ditto that! What’s it got to do with us?

We can’t even close our own borders for crying out loud.


5 posted on 07/23/2014 9:03:48 AM PDT by Gunpowder green
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

Well, we can gripe about it...but that is all we can and need to do. Maybe sanctions. But no military..EVER.


6 posted on 07/23/2014 9:04:00 AM PDT by Dallas59
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

U. S. Officials aren’t going to do squat to Russia, they’re too afraid of putin.


7 posted on 07/23/2014 9:07:00 AM PDT by FrankR (They will become our ultimate masters the day we surrender the 2nd Amendment.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

Europe’s problem. The US has never had anything to do with Ukraine. /sarc


8 posted on 07/23/2014 9:10:11 AM PDT by dforest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

I recall that when this rebel movement began to make the headlines, that a rebel force had captured a Ukrainian airfield and captured a quantity of munitions and armament including weapons such as these SAMs. Of course, everything in that part of the world is Russian made, both sides of the conflict. So to say the SAM was Russian is correct, but not necessarily given to them during the present hostilities. IMO

Whhat say ye??


9 posted on 07/23/2014 9:10:46 AM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FrankR

They are already sending in Pentagon officials.

Follow the shiny object.

I wish they would send the Pentagon to the border, but alas, that is of lesser importance.


10 posted on 07/23/2014 9:13:17 AM PDT by dforest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: elpadre

It’s certainly possible. The Ukrainians claim that none of their missile systems were lost. Even if the separatists pilfered the system from the Ukrainians, their actions immediately after the shootdown are questionable. And we know the Russians are arming them, anyway.


11 posted on 07/23/2014 9:15:02 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: elpadre
Whhat say ye??

1) The Ukrainians say they aren't missing any.

2) Russkies always lie about capturing stuff right before they send it in. Before it was scrubbed, Russian media claimed they captured Buks from Ukraine, but this was only carried by Russian media, and not reported on independently by anyone else.

3) The Buks in question were seen and photographed fleeing to Russia shortly after they realized their "problem."

12 posted on 07/23/2014 9:15:40 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Timber Rattler
OK, so what? Not our problem.

Russia is our enemy, as are the Chicoms. It is our problem.

13 posted on 07/23/2014 9:16:43 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: elpadre

WSJ - GOPe


15 posted on 07/23/2014 9:21:51 AM PDT by stocksthatgoup (Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldnÂ’t make any sense at all." -- Pres. Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: stocksthatgoup

The GOPe always fall out of their moldy lockers to find a microphone and a camera so they can help Obama. obama can count on them.

Notice how they stay in their moldy lockers regarding the invasion of our borders?

Obama loves it because later on he can blame any actions the people don’t want on them.

Demas love it at election time.


16 posted on 07/23/2014 9:27:59 AM PDT by dforest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

>> Russian-backed Ukrainian separatists shot down a Malaysia Airlines jetliner last week

Was there ever any doubt?


17 posted on 07/23/2014 9:30:12 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
This sounds like double talk, especially in light of this other FR thread:

US: No Link to Russian Gov't in Plane Downing

So, which is it? Is there a link to Russia or not?
18 posted on 07/23/2014 9:43:34 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (If at first you don't succeed, put it out for beta test.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Your link: "no direct evidence"
This link: no direct evidence
19 posted on 07/23/2014 9:46:03 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

So, the case is only to lay out INDIRECT evidence?

How’s that gonna fly?


20 posted on 07/23/2014 9:48:40 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (If at first you don't succeed, put it out for beta test.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

It’s a little more complicated than that—the separatist leader claimed that the plane was loaded with corpses before the flight. You want direct evidence that it wasn’t?


21 posted on 07/23/2014 9:50:05 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

So you want to declare war on the Rooskis and ChiComs?


22 posted on 07/23/2014 9:50:29 AM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

RE: the separatist leader claimed that the plane was loaded with corpses before the flight.

The corpses of which Malaysia Airline flight?

MH370 or MH17?


23 posted on 07/23/2014 9:51:21 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (If at first you don't succeed, put it out for beta test.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Russians have many theories about the MH17 crash. One involves fake dead people.
24 posted on 07/23/2014 9:54:47 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Timber Rattler
An American was killed.

 photo c465770b-a3b6-4823-8618-f8806af610b8_zps2a63280c.jpg

Quinn Schansman

25 posted on 07/23/2014 9:55:12 AM PDT by keat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

Now that the evidence is getting stronger, notice how the GRU infiltrators here are morphing from “we can’t know who actually did this (Russia wouldn’t benefit, so it must be Ukraine)” to “well, it’s not any of our business; we’ve got bigger problems, etc.”

It’s almost like it is a coordinated effort to obfuscate and draw attention away from the fact that US citizens DIED in an attack on a civilian airliner carried out by Russian-backed, Russian-armed, and Russian-instigated “rebels.” It’s funny how some of the same people on FR who are angry about the deaths of Americans in Benghazi don’t care when the deaths can be traced back to Moscow. It makes one wonder where in the world they are posting from...

PS. What good is it to preserve America’s borders and what it means to be a US citizen, when being a US citizen is of no importance when a foreign country KILLS you...?


26 posted on 07/23/2014 9:56:50 AM PDT by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (Hwaet! Lar bith maest hord, sothlice!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Timber Rattler

Eventually they will declare war on us if we remain weak and unresponding.


27 posted on 07/23/2014 10:00:25 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Charles H. (The_r0nin)
Now that the evidence...

+10

28 posted on 07/23/2014 10:01:08 AM PDT by keat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Charles H. (The_r0nin)
I wouldn't call all of them GRU infiltrators. Some of them are legitimate Ron Paul/Pat Buchanan/isolationist-types. The Russians feed on them for lunch.
29 posted on 07/23/2014 10:01:14 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
The officials relied on photographs, social media, and voiceprint analysis of Ukrainian communications intercepts

Bush is going to lie us into war again!

30 posted on 07/23/2014 10:09:37 AM PDT by McGruff (If you tell a lie often enough the weak minded will accept it to be truth.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: elpadre
...” everything in that part of the world is Russian made, both sides of the conflict. So to say the SAM was Russian is correct, but not necessarily given to them during the present hostilities”....

Kiev was quick to put videos out there of the BU...which has now been proved to be Ukrainian. But the idea was to immediately distract anyone from pointing the finger at Kiev... Coupled with this Obama’s constant push for Media to blame Russia “for everything”, which was his agenda from the get go of the revolution to all media. But became and still is such an overkill pace that even International Leaders grew suspicious there was more to this than media Obama was letting on......And of course there is. Kiev Gov. has consistently been made out to be the innocent party of all these happenings, when in fact, as they are investigated ,shown to be the very ones inciting these. Kiev media has an American team working their propaganda and reports... Kiev itself can make no moves without the US authorities there permitting it. So of course it will always be to deflect from Obama or the US as party to anything.

31 posted on 07/23/2014 10:21:52 AM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

The black box’s have been declared not tampered with so these will reveal much:

As Investigators have said....

“These will tell everything that was said in the cockpit, all noises, warning bells,and even the sound of explosion.

The flight data recorder will take longer to determine as only a few International teams can do so accurately. This will determine the parameters of the aircraft at that time.....may take weeks to study.


32 posted on 07/23/2014 10:27:58 AM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: keat

Might be he was one of those four tthey couldn’t identify nationality.

There’s also those whose bodies were basically left in parts....scattered about. So it’s going to take some time to determine who they are and belong to.


33 posted on 07/23/2014 10:30:02 AM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Dallas59

“...but that is all we can and need to do. Maybe sanctions. But no military..EVER”

Too late...

Obama orders Pentagon advisers to Ukraine to fend off Putin-backed rebels
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3183965/posts


34 posted on 07/23/2014 10:30:42 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Charles H. (The_r0nin)

The fact that no Americans were identified in the original flight data was telling.....but there were some shifts in seating as we’ve noted from those who either were booted or gave their seats up. There remains loose ends yet to determine just who hasn’t been identified yet.


35 posted on 07/23/2014 10:32:26 AM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: caww
Kiev media has an American team working their propaganda and reports....

Ahem. As opposed to Moscow having a FR team?

36 posted on 07/23/2014 10:34:49 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Charles H. (The_r0nin); All

I keep going back to the beginning of this entire affair.

Had not Obama decided to back the most violent elements of the Maidan protests, as a way of ‘Getting Back” at Putin after the Syria Attack Embarrassment, NONE of this would be happening...

-There would still be a Ukrainian flag flying over Crimea.
-The already called for early elections in Ukraine would have already happened.
-There wouldn’t be a Civil War.
-There would never have been an innocent civilian plane shot down.
-Thousands now dead would still be alive.
-U.S. Troops wouldn’t now be heading for Ukraine as ‘advisors’.

The sad fact that many still won’t accept is that this whole situation has been caused by Obama’s incredible foreign policy failures. Not just one, but MANY, one after another.

And Obama just keeps upping the ante.


37 posted on 07/23/2014 10:37:34 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

What about Putin sticking his nose into Ukraine’s business in the first place, and the guy who turned out to be one of his goons shooting a bunch of protestors?


38 posted on 07/23/2014 10:43:05 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

“and the guy who turned out to be one of his goons shooting a bunch of protestors?”

Evidence, please....
And that is still AFTER Obama decided to get involved in Ukraine.


39 posted on 07/23/2014 10:44:28 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

Russia keeps it to Russian teams......even Obama keeps to American teams......Kiev can’t do anything themselves including their news without the US having their hands all over it...therein is the difference....

The US is running Ukraine...not Ukrainians.


40 posted on 07/23/2014 10:47:28 AM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf
The guy who posts unsourced tweets wants evidence? LOL

And the Russians are legitimately claiming that the U.S. astroturfed those protests? LOLOL

41 posted on 07/23/2014 10:47:31 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: caww

So it appears that your problem lies somewhere between disappointment that Ukraine’s media favors the U.S. position over Russia’s, and admiration for Russian media being an arm of the Kremlin.


42 posted on 07/23/2014 10:50:15 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

So, you don’t have any actual evidence, then.
Not surprising, considering that would be BIG news.

IMO, there is a REAL reason Avakov took Sasko out of play when real questions about who did the Maidan shootings started being asked.

But, as I said, that is just my OPINION.


43 posted on 07/23/2014 10:51:02 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Charles H. (The_r0nin)

One US citizen who has not lived here since he was 5 died in that crash. Those poor people on the plane were all pawns in a political game over who gets Ukraine and it’s resources.

That is not a reason to get involved in a war where many more Americans will die under the excuse of “Freedom for Ukraine.” That is how they try to sell it to the sheep, but neither side really cares about the freedom part for Ukraine.

If we are to use your logic, we should hear all kinds of drumbeats from the Netherlands to send their own troops to fight Putin. They lost the most in the aircraft.

This unfortunate demise of this plane has created an excuse for the US to get involved militarily because the US citizens are not ready to get involved in more war. The Obama admin can now try and use this to make EU get on board stronger punishment on Russia.

The US/EU were behind the original coup and try to pretend they are not. Russia also denies they are involved, even though they are.

The whole thing is about nothing people are supposed to believe it is.

Meanwhile we have a real sovereignty issue in America that this admin has created and nothing is being done to stop it.


44 posted on 07/23/2014 10:51:48 AM PDT by dforest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy
Strike my last response to you...I forgot you were being ignoreed.......


45 posted on 07/23/2014 10:53:26 AM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

Frankly, I’m surprised that you can even use the word “evidence” without bursting out in laughter. This, from the guy who breathlessly posted an “article” from Russia Today whose main “source” was a UFO conspiracy/Bush eats babies website.


46 posted on 07/23/2014 10:54:02 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: caww

And I told you last time, just go ahead and post in Cyrillic.


47 posted on 07/23/2014 10:54:50 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

So, you are trying to spin away from your claim, that you can’t back up.

Unsurprising....


48 posted on 07/23/2014 10:55:55 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

Dude. You’re on to me. I’m with Blackwater, posting from the streets of Kiev. I knew that when you posted that tweet from RT it was all over.


49 posted on 07/23/2014 10:57:13 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

50 posted on 07/23/2014 10:59:08 AM PDT by caww
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-141 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson