Skip to comments.Mark Steyn: Israel and Ukraine, each fighting against the forces of terror and chaos
Posted on 07/24/2014 3:23:09 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows
The two big international headlines of the moment are the downing of the Malaysian jet over Ukraine and Israels incursion into Gaza. On the face of it, these two stories dont have much in common, but they are in fact part of the same story. To know Israel it helps to know Ukraine, and to know Ukraine it helps to know Israel.
This weekend will mark the 70th anniversary of the day the Soviets re-took the city of Lviv (or Lvov, or Lemberg, according to taste) in western Ukraine, and ended a three-year German occupation. Before the Germans arrived, there were well over 100,000 Jews in the city and just shy of 50 synagogues. On July 26th 1944, when the Soviets returned, there were a couple of hundred Jews left.
Lviv had been, variously, Polish, Hungarian, Ukrainian, Habsburg, Soviet but always, across the centuries, Jewish. All gone.
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My mother’s mother (my grandmother) lost her whole family who remained in Lemberg after she and her younger brother came to the US in the early 1900’s. The were either shot in Lemberg by the Nazis, shipped to Belzec Concentration Camp and killed there, or shipped to Auschwitz where they would have been killed.
The Russians are the “new Nazis” and are actually using Russian fascists/neo-Nazis as shock troops in the Crimea area (stories about their bodies being sent back to Russia appeared in the foreign press).
Putin is Hitler in a business suit. Remember, the KGB didn’t like to take prisoners or keep them alive very long (millions died either in Lubyanka Prison in Moscow or in the Gulag camps from Archangel/Vorkuta in northern USSR or in the string of camps along the Potma to Lake Baikal Siberian Railroad lines (Read Avram Shifrin’s story in the three volume Senate Internal Security Subcommittee/Sen. Judiciary Committee hearings entitled “Slave Labor Camps in the USSR”, 1972/1973, for details.
Many Ukrainians were responsible for Nazi crimes, serving in Waffen SS, extermination camp guards or mobs who murdered their fellow citizens of Jewish faith.
The drivel you wrote insults her memory and the memory of all others who perished in Belzec.
You should be ashamed.
For those lazy to click on embarrassing truth:
"SS Colonel General Christian Wirth, a former police officer who had played a leading role in implementing the T4 euthanasia program', was appointed the first camp commander. He commanded 20-30 SS men, plus a guard company of 90-120 Ukrainians who were trained at the Trawniki camp.
Belzec extermination camp was quite small, with a circumference of +- 1,220 yards. It was divided into two sections, each one surrounded by a barbed wire fence. There were watch towers all around the main perimeter. The first camp was split into two parts. The smaller area contained the administration buildings and the Ukrainians barracks. "
They were Nazis then, they are the Nazis now.
Hopefully Vladimir will end his days swinging by his heels like Mussolini. (Though that would upset his cabin boys at FR).
Same ideology, same perps.
Comparing Israel and Ukraine in order to provide support for Nazis in power in Kiev is the insult to the memory of all Jews murdered by the Ukrainian Nazis in WWII.
This is not true. Poles from occupied Poland did not provide Waffen SS division like Ukrainians did. Poles did not serve as extermination camp guards like Ukrainians.
Czechs did not provide Waffen SS division to Hitler nor served as extermination camp guards.
Nor did Greeks. And so on.
Even those occupied countries providing Waffen SS divisions ( e.g. The Netherlands, France) did not supply guards for extermination camps.
Ukrainians were not merely Nazi collaborators but the willing perpetrators of The Holocaust.
We can have different opinions on current events but it does not give you the right to misrepresent historical facts.
You are right, everyone was clean- in occupied territories. All were heroic. Wonder, if that same mindless mish-mash, will be said about Our Country, in 70 yrs or so?
By why stop there - the Norwegian (among others) police hustled their Jews to the docks. Putin should bomb Norway too. And if someone like Mark Steyn compares Norwegian problems with Putin to Israel's problems with Putin-like Palestinians - they would be wrong in your book.
Perhaps you should actually read my post before you criticze me. I wrote that my grandmother and her younger brother came to the US int he early 1900’s, while the rest of her immediate and extended family remained behind, only to be killed by the Nazis (and their other nationality henchmen, including members of the Ukrainian SS Divisions).
When my grandmother lived in Lemberg, it was part of the Austro-Hungarian (Hapsburg) empire, not the Soviet Union, which didn’t even exist back then.
Not sure exactly where my relatives died as we have no physical records, so far, as to where they were killed. I listed the three places I know that Lemberg Jews were killed.
I’ve met the puppetheads of the Nazi/German govt in the Ukraine, the Stetskos. Nasty critters but never really prosecuted as war criminals, which they were.
I would love for all Communist and Nazi war criminals to be executed, even if they are 90 years old and living in their beds.
And I might add, that, with the help of the late Simon Weisenthal, I helped expose Nazi war criminals who were in the East German Government, as well as a KGB operative here in the US aimed at discrediting legitimate Nazi-hunters.
What have you done besides sound like an ass?
DTA: Seems you forgot two groups out of Yugoslavia, the Croatian Fascists, the Utashi, and the Moslem SS Divisions from Montenegro? (courtesty of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem), both of whom ran extermination programs both inside and outside the Nazi camps.
There were some Italian SS troops but don’t know much about their activities.
Re Poland, some Poles betrayed Jews to the Nazis, or killed them, themselves, esp. at the end of the war as Polish Jews tried to return to their homes. Friends of mine survived those “aztions”.
However, one of the best Polish friends of the Jews was a late friend of mine, Stefan Korbonski, the head of the Polish Free Army. Despite resistance by other Polish resistance groups, he sent arms into the Warsaw Ghetto so that the Jews could defend themselves. For this he was given the “Righteous Gentile” award by Israel.
Used to have lunch with him. He was Jan Karski’s in-country counterpart.
History is very complicated and I’ve learned long ago that you can’t know everything. Just not enough time to read everything when you are trying to save the world, but I try.
No, I have not forgotten. I spoke of the Nazi OCCUPIED countries. I did not mention German allies who provided Waffen SS divisions, e.g. Hungary. Kingdom of Yugoslavia and Greece briefly fought against Nazi Germany in April 1941 and failed. Greece was occupied, Yugoslavia was dismembered. Slovenia and Banat were annexed to The Third Reich. Part of northern Serbia was occupied by Hungary and the Serbia proper was under direct Wehrmacht military rule (more severe form of occupation).On the territories of Bosnia and Croatia Croatian Nazis (Ustasha) created Independent State of Croatia (NDH)in April 1941 and NDH was an ally of The Third Reich. NDH declared the war on the United States in December of 1941 and send army to fight against USSR. NDH also provided two Waffen SS divisions, Croatian Kama (dagger) and Muslim Handshar (one you mentioned, created with the help of Grand Mufti of Jerusalem).
Albanians from Southern Serbia - Kosovo created Waffen SS Skenderbey. Only them are comparable with Ukrainain Galicia Waffen SS.
There was no Waffen SS from Montenegro. Montenegro was under Italian occupation).
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Thanks for the ing Slings and Arrows.