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Ukraine in civil war: Red Cross
AFP/Yahoo ^ | 7-23-2014 | AFP

Posted on 07/24/2014 10:48:10 PM PDT by tcrlaf

The International Committee of the Red Cross said Wednesday that it considered Ukraine to be in a state of civil war, urging both sides to respect the laws of conflict as civilians bear the brunt.

The formal classification means participants in the fighting between government forces and pro-Russian separatists in the east could eventually be prosecuted for war crimes in international courts.

"Fighting in eastern Ukraine continues to take its toll on civilians, and we urge all sides to comply with international humanitarian law, otherwise known as the law of armed conflict," ICRC director of operations Dominik Stillhart said in a statement.

"These rules and principles apply to all parties to the non-international armed conflict in Ukraine, and impose restrictions on the means and methods of warfare that they may use," he added.

The Swiss-based humanitarian body is the watchdog for the Geneva Conventions, the rules governing conduct in conflict.

The Red Cross uses the term "non-international armed conflict" for civil war.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Russia
KEYWORDS: civilwar; europeanunion; eussr; gazprom; mh17; putin; redcross; russianukrainianwar; ukraine
This isn't going to make Kiev, or some FR posters, very happy.

They have been trying very hard, since this episode began, to control the language of the conflict and deny that it is a civil war, but instead an "Anti-terrorist Operation" against "Russian Invaders".

This obliges both parties to treat captured as POW's, and protect civilians.

1 posted on 07/24/2014 10:48:10 PM PDT by tcrlaf
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To: tcrlaf

Before asking you ‘how the Red Cross could do that—make a determination that a country is at civil war’, I searched the words in parenthesis and found under an ‘Intnatl law’ category:
“The International Committee of the Red Cross is the legally recognized custodian of the laws of war.”
So, point well taken.


2 posted on 07/24/2014 11:08:46 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: tcrlaf

PS Have you ever seen a commie drink a glass of water?


3 posted on 07/24/2014 11:10:45 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: tcrlaf

There is no real civil war in the Ukraine. It’s really a proxy struggle between Russia (who still regards the region as their “breadbasket”) and the European Union.

Remember that Putin’s “Eurasian Union” is a new form of the old USSR, with no specific focus on communism.


4 posted on 07/24/2014 11:11:32 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: tumblindice

Oh yes, so-called “international humanitarian law”. The corrupt UN is steeped in it, and they and other “international” organizations have pushed a leftist bent on it for ages.


5 posted on 07/24/2014 11:15:34 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Just sayin’. Don’t have a cow.
I’m on board with you on the UN.
But the Red Cross—you know, we can pretend to be North Korea and stick our heads in the sand, but the ICRC carries some weight with the rest of the world.
You forgot to mention that the Red Cross could assign some formal blame to, say, the airliner downing.
All this article does is establish the categorical fact that the rest of the world, excepting yourself, considers the conflict in Ukraine to be a “civil war.”
(Maybe “the war of Russian aggression”?)


6 posted on 07/24/2014 11:26:32 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: tcrlaf

heh...


7 posted on 07/24/2014 11:28:04 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: tcrlaf

When did progressives care for civilians?....
Especially in Russia..


8 posted on 07/24/2014 11:31:36 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: hosepipe

You know... EVER!...


9 posted on 07/24/2014 11:32:26 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: tcrlaf

....”These rules and principles apply to all parties to the non-international armed conflict in Ukraine, and impose restrictions on the means and methods of warfare that they may use,” he added”.....

Wonder how that’s going to go down with all the bruts in that theater. It’s be like asking an Islamic fighter to show compassion.


10 posted on 07/24/2014 11:34:00 PM PDT by caww
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To: tcrlaf
"non-international armed conflict"
Reminds me of global tranquility.
11 posted on 07/24/2014 11:36:50 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Olog-hai

“There is no real civil war in the Ukraine.”

It seems that the Red Cross, the arbitrator of those determinations, by International Law, disagrees....

Designating a Civil War is important for a lot of reasons, not just for prisoners and civilians.


12 posted on 07/24/2014 11:42:51 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: WhiskeyX; free_life; Tailgunner Joe; 1rudeboy; Greetings_Puny_Humans; caww

PING....


13 posted on 07/25/2014 12:03:11 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf

The Red Cross is no arbiter of international politics. Nor is “International Law” a valid entity, what with tyrants subverting its definition all the time.

If one side of said alleged “civil war” is openly in favor of an outside entity (Russia), it cannot be a civil war by definition. And the opposing sides are in favor of differing outside entities, in addition.


14 posted on 07/25/2014 12:39:35 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Hit the nail on the head there.


15 posted on 07/25/2014 12:40:10 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: tcrlaf; caww; McGruff; tumblindice; 1rudeboy; free_life; Tailgunner Joe; Greetings_Puny_Humans

How can it be a civil war when the rebels are funded, supplied, trained, and armed by Moscow with heavy weapon systems like SAMs that shoot down commercial airliners.

Furthermore Russian troops are firing missiles and artillery at Ukrainian troops from inside Russian territory.

And of course by your own admisssion Russian rebels are shooting down commercial airliners allbeit “accidentally”, of course. Let me remind you what you said:

“Actually, I said from the beginning that the rebels accidently shot it down.”

{”rebels” of course being a euphemism for “Russians” since in Ukraine they are one and the same]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3184459/posts?page=45#37

You were absolutely not surprised that MH17 was downed by the Russian rebels and seemed to have inside information of their involvement from the very beginning. Perhaps you can share that inside information with us and we will forward to the Red Cross and Anatoly.

That is your post, isn’t it —


16 posted on 07/25/2014 3:40:37 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

What the hell does Russia care about international law? Seriously.


17 posted on 07/25/2014 4:53:13 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: tcrlaf
This isn't going to make Kiev, or some FR posters, very happy.

I would say that it's more likely that our FR neo-Bolsheviks will be unhappy. They lose the ability to make another red [snort] herring argument.

18 posted on 07/25/2014 4:55:09 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

And then there is this:

‘The most significant find today was we went into a heavily wooded area and found a huge piece of fuselage ...

in a wooded area and it almost appeared out of nowhere because there were no tell-tale signs, no broken branches, nothing to indicate that a piece of fuselage had landed there...

investigators had made ‘extraordinary’ finds.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2704975/Malaysian-crash-investigators-bodies-parts-passenger-jet-MH17-WEEK-downed-Ukraine.html#ixzz38TrmO9mc

Are the Russian rebels playing hide and seek with the bodies and the plane parts??


19 posted on 07/25/2014 5:03:07 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

I still want to know why they hacksawed that one piece. What would be the purpose? There’s probably shrapnel holes all over the aircraft.


20 posted on 07/25/2014 5:04:51 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

Aluminum is valuable over there — so they probably hacksawed and removed the only piece they could find without shrapnel holes in it and scurried it away.


21 posted on 07/25/2014 5:23:06 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: All
BREAKING: 40 Ukrainian mortar shells fell today on Russia – border security http://on.rt.com/1q9y34
22 posted on 07/25/2014 5:25:40 AM PDT by McGruff (Hell we can't even secure our border never mind Ukraine's.)
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To: caww; All
Is this the smoking gun?


23 posted on 07/25/2014 5:34:16 AM PDT by McGruff (Hell we can't even secure our border never mind Ukraine's.)
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To: McGruff; tcrlaf

The Ukrainians don’t need to shell Russia since there there are already enough Russian military in the Ukraine for them to shell.

So how did Commander Strelkov’s fundraiser go last Wednesday??? How much loot from MH17 victims was turned it???

There is nothing like looters looting the looters is there???


24 posted on 07/25/2014 5:56:23 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: caww

I had to LOL at this tweet.

Speaking to Igor Druz Mil spokesman. #Donetsk. He says “if Russians were helping us we would be in Kiev by now.”


25 posted on 07/25/2014 6:18:56 AM PDT by McGruff (Hell we can't even secure our border never mind Ukraine's.)
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To: McGruff
“if Russians were helping us we would be in Kiev by now.

That was just before he tweeted "if we can just have a few more fundraisers like Strelkov's the other night ...".

26 posted on 07/25/2014 6:48:23 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: McGruff; caww; tcrlaf

BTW — Strelkov should add mascara, lipstick, and cosmetics to that loot order 432:

‘Mascara from Amsterdam, or if to be precise from the field’: Outrage as female ‘separatist’ posts Instagram selfie wearing ‘looted mascara - and boasting about it’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2705628/Mascara-Amsterdam-precise-field-Outrage-female-separatist-posts-Instagram-selfie-wearing-looted-mascara-boasting-it.html


27 posted on 07/25/2014 6:53:11 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Olog-hai
And the Confederacy got most of it's rifles, canon, and powder from where at first?

Don't like the term "civil war", fine, wait a few years and call it the "recent unpleasantness".

The Ukraine Separatists have captured far more arms, ammunition, and equipment, than they have the people to use. What does or doesn't come from Russia remains to be seen since when Russia puts enough people on the border to choke off smuggling, Ukraine and NATO yell "massing for an attack" and when Russia pulls their troops back they yell "we damand you seal the border".

That's either strange and suspicious to you, or it's not but it doesn't change the reality that there is plenty of smoke and mirrors about Ukraine and very little independently verifiable real information. Bubbaozkov in Ukraine or Russia having a blog doesn't cut it, either, that's not independently verifiable and there's no reason to believe Bubbaozkov isn't sitting fat and happy in either Kiev or Moscow instead of where the Hell ever he says he is.

A perfect recent example is, "Russians are shelling Ukraine", so? Are they responding or did they initiate this for no reason? There's a Mech Brigade trapped hard against the border with Russia. If they crossed into Russia or fired into Russia, by accident or design, the Russians will lay it on them. Now, what would we do? I mean, what would an American CIC do, not what would/will/has King Barry done.

Would we call in UN peacekeepers to protect the integrity of a US border, call in the OAS observers (roughly equivilent to the OSCE obsrvers), create a hashtag, send our Ambassador to the UN to whine at the UN, demand that someone belive our photos and proof they've decided in advance would be fake, or return fire if not cross the border to destroy the offending unit (as the US has done on more than one occasion when it was the border with Mexico)?

Ok, maybe they had no reason to fire and are just helping the Separatists in that particular case. The point is, the facts aren't out, just the propaganda press releases and the lack of reporting is amazing. Stunning, in fact. What we have is hot button reporting in Western media that contradicts their stand on every other conflict in the world now and in the past decade.

When Candyman started the "ATO" operation, it absolutely became a Civil War because the actions of a few Kiev units made it impossible for a lot of people in the Southeast to believe they weren't being targeted by Kiev just for living where they've lived all their lives.

The heart of the problem is that Kiev sees Russia rolling into Southeastern Ukraine with a large force as the best of all possible outcomes because it would get them out of the austerity measures the IMF has planned and Kiev knows will be wildly unpopular.It would also get Kiev a huge influx of cash along with outsiders there to keep the Coup crowd in power without their having to worry about how loyal their own troops are (leaders installed by a US backed coup or mob tend to forget the worm can turn i.e. Diem and a few others).

Kiev compares all other possible outcomes to that ideal or else they would have been smart enough to extend the truce that was in place for a while just like Russia, Poland, Germany, and the OSCE, begged them to. Even from a selfish military point of view they would have benefited far more from a longer truce than the Separatists would have as their units having limited freedom of movement proves.

The difference between the way I look at the situation and the way a lot of people on FR see it is that I do not believe a word the media says whether I agree with their point of view or not while a lot of people hear what they want to hear and think, Ah, they're finally telling the truth". IMHO, the media is always and no matter what view they spew, about misdirection. I don't believe anyone involved is stating the truth and nothing but the truth, period. I doubt everything every party involved says until it's tested against what the possible benefits to them are along with all the impartial information I can find.

When Western Ukraine melts down as well as the Southeast, maybe some people will change their tune, maybe not. Either way, a lot of people are swallowing everything they're spoon fed by the media and people in love with the Obama backed Kiev Coup Kiddies without so much as a second thought about who's feeding them what.

I recall responding to you in another thread and being ignored when I pointed out what I thought was rather suspicious "information" people are swalloing. Apparently, you feel the media is as pure as wind driven snow when they're hitting your hot buttons.

JMHO, subject to modification as facts rather than BS and propaganda become available.

28 posted on 07/25/2014 8:18:26 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Olog-hai; Uncle Chip

Do forgive me, the post I linked to was a response to Uncle Chip, not you.


29 posted on 07/25/2014 8:52:18 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Uncle Chip

Reports the rebel scum is sprinkling MH-17 site with parts from other planes. These people are sub sub-human.


30 posted on 07/25/2014 4:00:07 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: Uncle Chip

Have read reports of rebels taking aluminum from MH-17 to sell, answering cell phones of dead when relatives call and using the credit cards of the dead. But they are Russian that is all to be expected. Maybe that is where the Ruskies here are getting their play by play bs info, from dead people’s cell phones, huh trclf?


31 posted on 07/25/2014 4:04:18 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: Rashputin

That’s ok nobody reads your shite bs anyways!


32 posted on 07/25/2014 4:07:01 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: free_life

Thank you, always glad to hear from the “wipe with your paw” crowd.


33 posted on 07/25/2014 4:11:19 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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