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Why has the IDF lost 32 soldiers in the Gaza ground offensive?
The Times of a Israel ^ | Thursday, July 24, 2014 | Mitch Ginsburg

Posted on 07/25/2014 2:34:14 AM PDT by Star Traveler

As opposed to previous campaigns, the army has a concrete goal — finding the tunnels — which means Hamas knows precisely where to strike.

On Wednesday morning three paratroopers were killed, bringing the death toll since the beginning of the ground operation in Gaza to 32. It’s highly possible that those sitting around the General Staff table knew that this would be the price Israel would have to pay if it sought to neutralize the tunnel threat from Hamas. The public, still very much supportive of the operation, has been surprised. After all, during Operation Cast Lead in 2009, over 23 days of fighting, the army lost only 10 soldiers, four of them from friendly fire.

Take the case of the Paratroop Brigade. A platoon from its demolitions company set out early in the morning on Wednesday. Like the rest of the field units, they receive a daily list of objectives. The list can include securing a certain intersection; advancing toward a rocket cache; taking a building known to house a tunnel entrance; establishing perimeter security for demolition forces working on a tunnel, in a hostile environment, with a scary amount of explosives; laying an ambush for rocket squads; and a host of other tasks. The IDF has yet to convey explicitly what the paratroopers were up to but almost all of the above tasks would require, when operating in urban areas, entering a house.

Earlier in the week the Shin Bet provided real-time intelligence about a booby-trapped house in Khan Younis, saving many lives. On Wednesday, there was no warning. A squad of Hamas operatives, lying in ambush, waited until the paratroopers had entered the house and then hit the detonator. A section of the home crumbled and the operatives opened fire, pinning the force down.

(Excerpt) Read more at timesofisrael.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Israel; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: gaza; hamas; israel; israelgroundop
Israel considers these particular tunnels (attack tunnels) as a much greater threat than the rockets ... which is why they are concentrating on them now and taking such a long time!
1 posted on 07/25/2014 2:34:14 AM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: Star Traveler
Why has the IDF lost 32 soldiers in the Gaza ground offensive?

They think going into the enemies lair is not dangerous?

2 posted on 07/25/2014 2:36:14 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: Star Traveler
Israel considers these particular tunnels (attack tunnels) as a much greater threat than the rockets ... which is why they are concentrating on them now and taking such a long time!

And there is reason for that. Bombay and Mombasa like attacks thwarted:

Mega-siege attack thwarted, US still pushes ceasefire

This war may have prevented a huge planned terror attack

3 posted on 07/25/2014 3:01:11 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: sr4402

One must remember that Olmert was PM then as well. We all know what a failure he was in that engagement and also with the one against Hezbollah to the north. He did not have the stomach in both cases to win the war instead if winning a cease fire.


4 posted on 07/25/2014 3:05:58 AM PDT by mazda77 (http://www.rymanshoaf.com)
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To: Star Traveler
Israel considers these particular tunnels (attack tunnels) as a much greater threat than the rockets ... which is why they are concentrating on them now and taking such a long time!

My take is more tunnels are being built to kidnap-abduct Israelis and this can be a big psychological problem for the Israeli population. The drama and family in the news all the time. The speculation over what is being done to the victims by these evil evil bastards. What happens when Hamas gets to kidnap Israeli females? 

Hamas has stated many times its objective of kidnapping Israelis to use as bargaining chips to get their imprisoned killers freed and to traumatize Israeli mothers and the nation

Notice that this escalated into the war we have after the 3 Israeli boys were kidnapped and killed

5 posted on 07/25/2014 3:10:54 AM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: Star Traveler

As of right now, Israeli leaders are still considering the possibility of committing national suicide - ie an “humanitarian” pause or ceasefire - allowing Hamas time to figure out how to defeat the Windbreaker system to which Hamas has no defense.


6 posted on 07/25/2014 3:15:28 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: dennisw

See the links in my post above yours. There were probably much larger terrorist attacks planned than just a few abductions.


7 posted on 07/25/2014 3:16:23 AM PDT by ScaniaBoy (Part of the Right Wing Research & Attack Machine)
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To: sr4402

Its war only 32 amazing.


8 posted on 07/25/2014 3:26:11 AM PDT by riverrunner
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To: PIF

I just posted something on the Windbreaker system, a few minutes ago.


9 posted on 07/25/2014 3:35:10 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: riverrunner
Yes, it IS war and people die in wars. Typically, when any country goes to war, you can bet it won't be the ones in their marble offices that will die, it will be the expendables. If you go to war, go to WIN and win BIG and to do that, you have to pay a terrible price.
10 posted on 07/25/2014 3:38:09 AM PDT by DaveA37
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To: Star Traveler

Daisy cutters.


11 posted on 07/25/2014 3:48:51 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sr4402; riverrunner

The size in numbers of the IDF is much smaller than the size of US military forces. The 32 dead would be similar to the USA losing between 500 and 700.

So it’s a big deal.

The IDF strives to minimize caualties and deaths and in this conflict they are needing to operate on terms of the enemy by entering buildings where the enemy has the element of surprise.

We can suppose they could consider doing things differently. They could clear a town within a certain radius before entering buildings so that the enemy could not see them entering buildings. And they could use robots to enter buildings.


12 posted on 07/25/2014 4:05:03 AM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V)
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To: Star Traveler
A tunnel paid for by the USA (through Obama and the State Dept)
and the UN and EU to kill Egyptians (non-Moslem Brotherhood) and Israelis.


13 posted on 07/25/2014 4:08:31 AM PDT by Diogenesis (The EXEMPT Congress is complicit in the absence of impeachment)
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To: Diogenesis

The USA doesn’t give money or arms to Hamas, but the USA does give humanitarian aid to the People there in Gaza through agencies, such as UNRWA who administers the programs.

And Israel, who controls the good that go into Gaza (they have a blockade around Gaza) does let the goods that the USA sends in through UNRWA go through their checkpoints, as Israel has no problem with that.

What Israel doesn’t let go through their checkpoints or past their blockade are arms and material for war going to Hamas.


14 posted on 07/25/2014 4:22:11 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Diogenesis

Israel singles out Qatar as key Hamas terror sponsor
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3184241/posts

http://www.timesofisrael.com/as-it-battles-hamas-israel-singles-out-its-sponsor-qatar/

Gulf emirate is branded the villain behind Hamas belligerence, with PM’s former security adviser saying it funds tunnel diggers and rocket launchers.

President Shimon Peres accused Qatar on Wednesday of becoming “the world’s largest funder of terror” due to its financial support for Hamas in Gaza.

“Qatar does not have the right to send money for rockets and tunnels which are fired at innocent civilians,” the outgoing statesman told UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon in Jerusalem. “Their funding of terror must stop. If they want to build then they should, but they must not be allowed to destroy.”

Qatar’s recently attempted to transfer funds for the salaries of Hamas civil servants in Gaza, following the formation of a Palestinian unity government, but was blocked by the United States, which pressured the Arab Bank not to process them. But former national security adviser Maj. Gen. (res) Yaakov Amidror told The Times of Israel that the emirate’s funding for the organization’s terror apparatus, including tunnel diggers and rocket launchers, has continued unabated.


15 posted on 07/25/2014 4:24:24 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

Hamas perspective: “The Jews are killing our terrorists 20 to one. Pretty soon no more Israelis!”


16 posted on 07/25/2014 4:29:32 AM PDT by Pollster1 ("Shall not be infringed" is unambiguous.)
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To: dennisw

The tunnels are also a perfect low tech delivery system for a WMD...


17 posted on 07/25/2014 4:46:51 AM PDT by ken5050 ("One useless man is a shame, two are a law firm, three or more are a Congress".. John Adams)
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To: Hostage

Compared to WWI and WWII and other war battles counting into the thousands of casualties during a single day.

32 isn’t huge the liberals have push this no casualties idea to weaken us not make us stronger.


18 posted on 07/25/2014 5:03:02 AM PDT by riverrunner
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To: riverrunner

> “...liberals have push this no casualties idea to weaken us not make us stronger”

It has nothing to do with liberals.

The documented statements, opinions and lectures of General MacArthur, General Patton and many other brilliant military strategists are in disagreement with you.


19 posted on 07/25/2014 5:21:37 AM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V)
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To: ScaniaBoy
See the links in my post above yours. There were probably much larger terrorist attacks planned than just a few abductions

I would never discount this
However Hamas and all Muslims conduct psychological warfare. Kidnapping Israelis is key to this propagandistic assault on the Israeli psyche. Muslim tradition of taking captives to bargain with and kidnapping goes back to when Muhammad lead his first Jihads, as an Islamic tool of war

20 posted on 07/25/2014 5:23:25 AM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: Star Traveler

I thought they were only attacking UN kindergartens. The Marxist Media said they were only killing children???

Pray America wakes up


21 posted on 07/25/2014 5:24:38 AM PDT by bray (Palin/Bibi 2016)
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To: Hostage

I guess one just has to fight a war hold the ground make sure the enemy doesn’t attack you and kill you with out the loss of life on either side.

When you figure how this can be done let the rest of the world know.


22 posted on 07/25/2014 5:31:43 AM PDT by riverrunner
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To: Star Traveler
How the U.S. Aids Hamas Through the Palestinian Authority

Obama Approves Direct Funding For Hamas

US sends $50M to Gaza

Kerry, Obama, and the WEF’s $4 Billion Bailout Plan for PLO/Hamas

VERY IMPORTANT.. Obama’s Brother Funds Hamas (Proof Below)

Hamas 'happy' with Obama's $900 million pledge [2009 Flashback: Never Forget!!]

U.S. Selling $11B in Weaponry to Gulf State That Supports Hamas, Syrian Jihadists

Why would Hamas negotiate with John Kerry after getting $47 million from him?

Ninth Lesson From the Gaza War: Hamas Will Use Humanitarian Aid for Evil

Will Obama Snatch Defeat from the Jaws of Victory Over Hamas?

Obama to the rescue – of Hamas

The Southern Poverty Law Center Stands Up for Hamas

State Dept: U.S. Supports Palestinian Unity Government (Hamas)

Report: US Holding Backroom Talks with Hamas ‘For Months’

U.S. held secret meeting with Hamas, Terrorist regime still won't recognize Israel's right to exist

Former FBI Agent Says Leading Muslim Group a ‘Hamas Front’ (CAIR)

Pictured: Obama’s half-brother wearing Hamas scarf that boasts ‘Jerusalem is ours—WE ARE COMING’

Obama’s Brother Joins Hamas, Wears Scarf Saying ‘Jerusalem Is Ours; We Are Coming’

Barack Obama’s Brother Malik Joins Hamas Terrorist Group

Obama appoints Hamas supporter who called Israelis Nazis to commission on religious freedom

CIA finds 1 in 5 flagged job applicants hail from Hamas, Hezbollah, al Qaeda

Al-Qaeda, Hamas operatives applied for CIA jobs, say new Snowden files

Obama Officials Met with Hamas, Discussed Removing it from Terror List

Summer Camp: Hamas Teaches Children to Kill and Kidnap Israelis

U.S. Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas Support Leader Chosen By Syrian Opposition

23 posted on 07/25/2014 5:39:47 AM PDT by Diogenesis (The EXEMPT Congress is complicit in the absence of impeachment)
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To: Star Traveler

It isn’t just Qatar that’s funding the jihad.


24 posted on 07/25/2014 5:43:33 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: riverrunner

You miss the point. If is not the ‘loss of life’ that is the principle, it is the ‘miinimization of loss of life’ that is principle.

“MacArthur thought the purpose of war was to win with minimal casualties.”

“No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country” — General George S. Patton


25 posted on 07/25/2014 5:47:27 AM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V)
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To: riverrunner

My Marine infantry company in Vietnam over the course of a three week operation had 40 KIA. Out of the 243 men we started with, 90-95 returned to base.

Most of our losses were either wounded or medevaced with malaria, dysentery, etc. But we did have 40 men killed.

However, during one day’s firefight we killed 83 NVA.


26 posted on 07/25/2014 6:20:27 AM PDT by BwanaNdege ( "For those who have fought for it, Life bears a savor the protected will never know")
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To: Diogenesis

You’re wasting your time. Propagandists don’t like the truth.


27 posted on 07/25/2014 6:25:02 AM PDT by Lil Flower (American by birth. Southern by the Grace of God! ROLL TIDE!!)
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To: Star Traveler

Simple answer. Urban warfare sucks. Lessons for patriots in this battle.


28 posted on 07/25/2014 6:38:27 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: Hostage

I agree but they didn’t win by having no casualties. They didn’t invade Europe and defeat the Japanese by asking for no casualties.


29 posted on 07/25/2014 6:41:53 AM PDT by riverrunner
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To: Jack Hydrazine

You would be right that they are not the only one. I think Israel is simply identifying Qatar as the PRIMARY funder of Hamas. Turkey is also involved and part of that new block of Muslim countries backing Hamas (as reported in previous articles I’ve posted. Iran was also a former funder, but Hamas and Iran had a falling out. I don’t know if Iran is funding them in small way, but I suspect they are, as Qatar appears to be falling into Iran’s orbit.

And before Egypt deposed the former Muslim Brotherhood President, there was some cooperation with Hamas there. That is over, now with Egypt, as they are hammering Hamas for being in cahoots with the Muslim Brotherhood in trying to take over Egypt.

And Jordan or Saudi Arabia don’t seem to be in the sphere of Muslim countries funding Hamas. Jordan and Saudi Arabia appear to be aligned with Egypt and Israel, against Hamas.

The two major blocks of Muslim nations which seem to have Hamas at the center (one block opposing and one block supporting) are Turkey, Qatar and Iran -versus- Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia - with Israel aligned with Egypt.


30 posted on 07/25/2014 7:01:13 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
Because they are being forced to get in close. When that happens probability often dictates the result while in other cases training and experience would dictate the outcome.
31 posted on 07/25/2014 7:03:12 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin

Yeah, it’s the “attack tunnels” that have made the difference this time.


32 posted on 07/25/2014 7:04:09 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
Why has the IDF lost 32 soldiers in the Gaza ground offensive?

Because the other guys have guns?

33 posted on 07/25/2014 7:06:35 AM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise. Hat)
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To: Diogenesis

I can see you still confuse both humanitarian aid or aid to the Palestinian Authority, which Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has lobbied and urged Congress to continue supporting (because Israel doesn’t want it’s soldiers administering the PA territories).

And I see you’re also confusing the “unity pact” which is nothing but a “paper document” for foreign consumption ... with Hamas ... when it is the Palestinian Authority” and Abbas who are fully in control of Judea and Samaria.

The problem you have is that you can’t see the details and distinguish what is going on. And you confuse criminals and criminal actions of terrorists with support that the USA is giving to Palestinians, versus the terror groups.

You ignore that Prime Minister Netanyahu has no problem with humanitarian aid for Palestinian civilians and he also wants support for the Palestinian Authority to continue so Israel won’t have to administer the territories.

What neither the USA or Israel wants is any money or arms to the terrorist organization and neither one of them is doing that.


34 posted on 07/25/2014 7:08:41 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: dennisw; Cachelot; Nix 2; veronica; Catspaw; knighthawk; Alouette; Optimist; weikel; Lent; GregB; ..
Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

35 posted on 07/25/2014 7:09:59 AM PDT by SJackson (government tampers with a freedom so fundamental, one shudders to think what lies ahead. Card Dolan)
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To: Lil Flower

Then Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the IDF are propagandists then ... LOL ...

They are the ones who say these things and do these things that I’ve reported here, with aid to the Palestinian and allowing UNRWA to help the Palestinian civilians and saying that they are not against the Palestinian, which the Israeli Ambassador said in the meeting of the UN Human Rights Council, just a couple of days ago.

And then there was Israel identifying Qatar as being the primary financier of Hamas and their rockets and building tunnels, again a day or two ago ...

Now that all sounds like propaganda coming from Israel, doesn’t it ... LOL ...


36 posted on 07/25/2014 7:20:58 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

One reason is that Israel left Gaza wide open for islamist expansion. Remember them pulling Israeli settlers out by force?

Never again, eh?


37 posted on 07/25/2014 8:08:27 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: ScaniaBoy

One thing I read about the cease-fire proposal is that the USA’s proposal has the provision that Israeli troops can remain in Gaza while CONTINUING to clean out those “attack tunnels” and destroying them. In other words, that cease-fire would not mean Israel cannot continue to finish the job on those attack tunnels.

One other thing to keep in mind is that Israel has already agreed to a cease-fire - in fact several times thus far — BUT — Hamas has not. So it’s not Israel that is holding up a cease-fire, but it’s Hamas who is holding it up.


38 posted on 07/25/2014 8:12:58 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler

>> Hamas and Palestinian Authority call for “day of rage” over Israeli assault on Gaza after two Palestinians killed in overnight riots north of Jerusalem.<<

Like our day of rage we had when Obama was elected, right ST?

I notice you don’t respond to all pings, like this one that doesn’t fit your preconcieved script. Looks like the PA and Hamas work pretty well together after all.


39 posted on 07/25/2014 9:01:04 AM PDT by Lil Flower (American by birth. Southern by the Grace of God! ROLL TIDE!!)
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To: Star Traveler

If they know where the tunnels are, why not just drop the GPS guided bunker busters we sold them?


40 posted on 07/25/2014 11:24:31 AM PDT by gura (If Allah is so great, why does he need fat sexually confused fanboys to do his dirty work? -iowahawk)
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To: gura

Israel would be bombing close to their own villages then ...


41 posted on 07/25/2014 11:32:49 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
Why has the IDF lost 32 soldiers in the Gaza ground offensive?

Uhhh, maybe because it's a WAR, soldiers die in wars.

42 posted on 07/25/2014 11:33:49 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Lil Flower

I wouldn’t extend not answering every single post to me, with some kind of political philosophy ... it could be something more mundane like running out of time ... :-) ...


43 posted on 07/25/2014 11:35:37 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: dfwgator

Someone was comparing statistics from a past war ... so the numbers are higher now ...


44 posted on 07/25/2014 11:36:35 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Lil Flower

Oh ... and one more thing, I didn’t even see this post until I happened to notice the post right after yours ... that’s just the way it goes.


45 posted on 07/25/2014 11:37:59 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Diogenesis

The person is probably climbing up into a mosque or orphanage. Bomb all exits and entrances...clear the area.


46 posted on 07/25/2014 3:37:06 PM PDT by hal ogen (First Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
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To: Star Traveler

“Qatar appears to be falling into Iran’s orbit.”

You do know that Qatar is 90% Sunni and Iran is Shia, right?


47 posted on 07/25/2014 8:30:58 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: hal ogen
The person is probably climbing up into a mosque or orphanage.

That's a tunnel beneath the Egyptian-Gaza border in Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip. Link.

48 posted on 07/25/2014 8:44:08 PM PDT by cynwoody
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To: Jack Hydrazine

It’s in terms of Hamas ... you’ve got Turkey hosting Hamas leaders, Qatar being a major financier and Iran being a major funder of Hamas before Qatar became the prime one. They’ve all got the connections to Hamas.


49 posted on 07/25/2014 8:58:01 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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