Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Is Putin Worse Than Stalin?
Townhall.com ^ | July 25, 2014 | Pat Buchanan

Posted on 07/25/2014 11:10:00 AM PDT by Kaslin

In 1933, the Holodomor was playing out in Ukraine.

After the "kulaks," the independent farmers, had been liquidated in the forced collectivization of Soviet agriculture, a genocidal famine was imposed on Ukraine through seizure of her food production.

Estimates of the dead range from two to nine million souls.

Walter Duranty of the New York Times, who called reports of the famine "malignant propaganda," won a Pulitzer for his mendacity.

In November 1933, during the Holodomor, the greatest liberal of them all, FDR, invited Foreign Minister Maxim Litvinov to receive official U.S. recognition of his master Stalin's murderous regime.

On August 1, 1991, just four months before Ukraine declared its independence of Russia, George H. W. Bush warned Kiev's legislature:

"Americans will not support those who seek independence in order to replace a far-off tyranny with a local despotism. They will not aid those who promote a suicidal nationalism based upon ethnic hatred."

In short, Ukraine's independence was never part of America's agenda. From 1933 to 1991, it was never a U.S. vital interest. Bush I was against it.

When then did this issue of whose flag flies over Donetsk or Crimea become so crucial that we would arm Ukrainians to fight Russian-backed rebels and consider giving a NATO war guarantee to Kiev, potentially bringing us to war with a nuclear-armed Russia?

From FDR on, U.S. presidents have felt that America could not remain isolated from the rulers of the world's largest nation.

Ike invited Khrushchev to tour the USA after he had drowned the Hungarian Revolution in blood. After Khrushchev put missiles in Cuba, JFK was soon calling for a new detente at American University.

Within weeks of Warsaw Pact armies crushing the Prague Spring in August 1968, LBJ was seeking a summit with Premier Alexei Kosygin.

After excoriating Moscow for the downing of KAL 007 in 1983, that old Cold Warrior Ronald Reagan was fishing for a summit meeting.

The point: Every president from FDR through George H. W. Bush, even after collisions with Moscow far more serious than this clash over Ukraine, sought to re-engage the men in the Kremlin.

Whatever we thought of the Soviet dictators who blockaded Berlin, enslaved Eastern Europe, put rockets in Cuba and armed Arabs to attack Israel, Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan and Bush 1 all sought to engage Russia's rulers.

Avoidance of a catastrophic war demanded engagement.

How then can we explain the clamor of today's U.S. foreign policy elite to confront, isolate, and cripple Russia, and make of Putin a moral and political leper with whom honorable statesmen can never deal?

What has Putin done to rival the forced famine in Ukraine that starved to death millions, the slaughter of the Hungarian rebels or the Warsaw Pact's crushing of Czechoslovakia?

In Ukraine, Putin responded to a U.S.-backed coup, which ousted a democratically elected political ally of Russia, with a bloodless seizure of the pro-Russian Crimea where Moscow has berthed its Black Sea fleet since the 18th century. This is routine Big Power geopolitics.

And though Putin put an army on Ukraine's border, he did not order it to invade or occupy Luhansk or Donetsk. Does this really look like a drive to reassemble either the Russian Empire of the Romanovs or the Soviet Empire of Stalin that reached to the Elbe?

As for the downing of the Malaysian airliner, Putin did not order that. Sen. John Cornyn says U.S. intelligence has not yet provided any "smoking gun" that ties the missile-firing to Russia.

Intel intercepts seem to indicate that Ukrainian rebels thought they had hit an Antonov military transport plane.

Yet, today, the leading foreign policy voice of the Republican Party, Sen. John McCain, calls Obama's White House "cowardly" for not arming the Ukrainians to fight the Russian-backed separatists.

But suppose Putin responded to the arrival of U.S. weapons in Kiev by occupying Eastern Ukraine. What would we do then?

John Bolton has the answer: Bring Ukraine into NATO.

Translation: The U.S. and NATO should go to war with Russia, if necessary, over Luhansk, Donetsk and Crimea, though no U.S. president has ever thought Ukraine itself was worth a war with Russia.

What motivates Putin seems simple and understandable. He wants the respect due a world power. He sees himself as protector of the Russians left behind in his "near abroad." He relishes playing Big Power politics. History is full of such men.

He allows U.S. overflights to Afghanistan, cooperates in the P5+1 on Iran, helped us rid Syria of chemical weapons, launches our astronauts into orbit, collaborates in the war on terror and disagrees on Crimea and Syria.

But what motivates those on our side who seek every opportunity to restart the Cold War?

Is it not a desperate desire to appear once again Churchillian, once again heroic, once again relevant, as they saw themselves in the Cold War that ended so long ago?

Who is the real problem here?


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: globalsecurity; putin; russia; ukraine; vladimirputin
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-68 next last

1 posted on 07/25/2014 11:10:00 AM PDT by Kaslin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

The real question is Obama worse than Putin...there’s no doubt in my mind...


2 posted on 07/25/2014 11:11:15 AM PDT by jsanders2001
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

I thought Whoopie said Stalin was misunderstood?


3 posted on 07/25/2014 11:12:29 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jsanders2001

Actually, if you are familiar with either, you’d know that Obama aspires to be Putin.


4 posted on 07/25/2014 11:12:53 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

My concern is that zer0 is up there with Stalin hitler and Mao. We are in a world of hurt. We are being invaded in the south and our dear leader is out there fund raising.


5 posted on 07/25/2014 11:13:01 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

Zer0 doesn’t have the stones to be Putin. Or Palin for that matter.


6 posted on 07/25/2014 11:14:00 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: 1rudeboy

He needn’t aspire; he’s already there and then some. He just uses a different m.o. of deception on a massive scale.


7 posted on 07/25/2014 11:14:28 AM PDT by jsanders2001
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Is Putin worse than Stalin? No, not yet, not nearly. We can give him time, but like other posters, I’m more worried about where Zero would go if he was unconstrained.


8 posted on 07/25/2014 11:14:33 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Not yet.

Our leader is hoping to win the prize though...


9 posted on 07/25/2014 11:15:19 AM PDT by PATRIOT1876
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

I don’t know, has Putin killed(murdered) 40 Million or so people yet? How many People has Putin Sentenced to the gulags? I would say “No”.


10 posted on 07/25/2014 11:22:51 AM PDT by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
From FDR on, U.S. presidents have felt that America could not remain isolated from the rulers of the world's largest nation.

Not too long ago Buchanan was comparing this "leader" to the Pope. What Buchanan describes as "necessary" reapproachments with Moscow was merely appeasement and weakness. Hence the Russkies have kept on killing, and are still as much a threat to us as they were when the cold war supposedly ended. Even worse now, because we let down our guard as a nation.

Hence why defectors like Anatoliy Golitsyn and others warned us not to fall for any supposed liberalization of Russia. Until the KGB and underground communist structures are dismantled, the Reds will continue murdering people.

As for the U.S. supposedly launching a "U.S. backed coup" for a "legitimately elected leader." He's full of crap. This "leader" was violating the Ukrainian constitution, looting the treasury, dismantling the military, and having opponents picked up and beaten by his special police. He also did the exact opposite of what he campaigned for. Furthermore, he fled the country to a foreign enemy, wasn't even toppled, and the same government that was elected in 2012 remained in power.

Buchanan and the Ron Paul wing of the party are Russkie bootlickers and need to be purged from the party.

11 posted on 07/25/2014 11:25:47 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: US Navy Vet
How many People has Putin Sentenced to the gulags?

This is a practice that still goes on in Russia, though I do not know if they are "gulags." Political opponents are frequently sent to prisons, some are sent to psychiatric hospitals, things of that sort, still others are just killed. Stalin, however, isn't the problem. The problem is the system. It is the Soviet system that has killed over 60 million people since it came into being, and is still killing through the hands of its heirs, of which Putin is just a figurehead of.

12 posted on 07/25/2014 11:27:47 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
Is Putin Worse Than Stalin?

Nope.

13 posted on 07/25/2014 11:29:06 AM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise. Hat)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Rhetorical Headline Alert.

I had to read the article to tell if Buchanan is being serious. Of course he isn’t. I can’t even tell if morons like McCain or Boehner are being set up for such a silly comparison.

But as usual, Pat know his history. And is able to draw correct conclusions.


14 posted on 07/25/2014 11:29:14 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Putin’s probably bad news for America and American interests (among other things, Putin loves Iran), but is he really bad news for the Russian people? He’s done a lot to privatize and deregulate Russian industry, and he seems to have concern for Christianity and Christian values (unlike Stalin). In terms of domestic policy, Putin is light years ahead of Stalin.

At this point, it would be hard to tell which person would be more dangerous overall to America, especially since both despised us and neither of them shriveled up into an isolationist ball. Stalin certainly had more to work with and was lucky that FDR was a sympathizer, but I’d argue that Putin is smarter on his own merits. Putin has no need to capitulate to a moron like Hussein Soetoro, especially since they both share the common goal of destroying America.


15 posted on 07/25/2014 11:32:39 AM PDT by Objective Scrutator (All liberals are criminals, and all criminals are liberals)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jsanders2001

We are being primed for war. Zero’s legacy will be WWW3.


16 posted on 07/25/2014 11:33:20 AM PDT by Mr_Peter (Proud to be a Republican in Hingham Massachusetts)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
As for the downing of the Malaysian airliner, Putin did not order that. Sen. John Cornyn says U.S. intelligence has not yet provided any "smoking gun" that ties the missile-firing to Russia.

Whoa. That's not going to go over well here.

17 posted on 07/25/2014 11:34:25 AM PDT by McGruff (Hell we can't even secure our border never mind Ukraine's.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

U.S. intelligence has not yet provided any "smoking gun" that ties the missile-firing to Russia.

That's not true. We've got that Facebook account where one of their guys admitted to it.

18 posted on 07/25/2014 11:35:50 AM PDT by McGruff (Hell we can't even secure our border never mind Ukraine's.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

In regard to what?


19 posted on 07/25/2014 11:36:23 AM PDT by mulligan (I)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Mr_Peter

We are being primed for war. Zero’s legacy will be WWW3.


And possibly millions of dead Americans.

In the past we could rest assured that we were being safeguarded. Not now.


20 posted on 07/25/2014 11:47:02 AM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Vaquero

My concern is that zer0 is up there with Stalin hitler and Mao. We are in a world of hurt. We are being invaded in the south and our dear leader is out there fund raising.


Obama is definitely in the same league as Hitler and Stalin.

If he isn’t stopped, he’ll prove it.


21 posted on 07/25/2014 11:48:41 AM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Has he killed 50 million Russians yet?


22 posted on 07/25/2014 11:49:58 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: McGruff
Whoa. That's not going to go over well here.

I know, isn't it frustrating? Why can't Putin seem to get a fair shake around here? He's simply misunderstood.

23 posted on 07/25/2014 11:52:19 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

No.

Look at the body count. No comparison.

He is a ruthless autocrat, though.


24 posted on 07/25/2014 11:52:30 AM PDT by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Vaquero
"Zero doesn't have the stones to be Putin. Or Palin for that matter"

LOL! But he might look good in red heels. Would go with his mom jeans.

vaudine

25 posted on 07/25/2014 11:52:54 AM PDT by vaudine
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: vaudine

“Zero doesn’t have the stones to be Putin. Or Palin for that matter”

LOL! But he might look good in red heels. Would go with his mom jeans.


Obama would simply prance around in his red shoes while his minions did the dirty work. Obama is pure evil.


26 posted on 07/25/2014 11:56:23 AM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: McGruff

If Facebook is ever in conflict with Wikipedia, which one should we believe?


27 posted on 07/25/2014 11:57:19 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
Is Putin worse than Stalin

Is gonorrhea worse than syphilis?

28 posted on 07/25/2014 11:59:26 AM PDT by windsorknot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Objective Scrutator
I don't think Putin loves Iran. It think he regards them as a useful pawn in balance-of-power politics vis-a-vis both the U.S. and the Sunni world.

Russia's problems with Islam are simpler than ours: their Muslim enemies are all Sunnis, so a Shi'ite power is a natural ally against a common enemy. We're stuck with Iranian official hatred as blowback from the Shah having been one of "our bastards" during the Cold War, as well as a pack of Sunni enemies (AQ, ISIS).

29 posted on 07/25/2014 12:00:22 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: US Navy Vet

Yes, that was my reaction too. Putin has no doubt killed hundreds of people, maybe thousands, maybe even tens of thousands, but he’s well shy of a million, not to say multiple millions.


30 posted on 07/25/2014 12:02:40 PM PDT by jocon307
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: DesertRhino

It wasn’t Facebook, that’s just a russky lie. It was the Pro-Russian website Vkontakte. They bragged about it on their own website like Al-Qaeda does.


31 posted on 07/25/2014 12:04:37 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Has Putin murdered tens of millions of his own people? Well come back and ask that question when he has.


32 posted on 07/25/2014 12:04:56 PM PDT by DoodleDawg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jsanders2001

Perhaps the question should be is Holder as bad as Beria?
The answer is not yet, but give him time...and a Stalin
to serve under.


33 posted on 07/25/2014 12:05:50 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: DoodleDawg

Most intelligent comment yet. Like asking if Xi Xinping is worse than Mao.


34 posted on 07/25/2014 12:07:31 PM PDT by Viennacon (Barry Obama? No... Barack Hussein Soebarkah.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
On August 1, 1991, just four months before Ukraine declared its independence of Russia, George H. W. Bush warned Kiev's legislature:

"Americans will not support those who seek independence in order to replace a far-off tyranny with a local despotism. They will not aid those who promote a suicidal nationalism based upon ethnic hatred."

In short, Ukraine's independence was never part of America's agenda. From 1933 to 1991, it was never a U.S. vital interest. Bush I was against it.

Unless there's more to offer from an expanded quote, this is not evidence of Bush I not supporting independence for the Ukraine. It is evidence of him not wanting to see a domestic despotic leadership to replace a far off tyranny, and evidence of him not wanting to see suicidal nationalism based on ethnic hatred.

35 posted on 07/25/2014 12:14:37 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Think how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are stupider than that.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Putin is small potatoes compared to the obliteration Obama is doing to America right here and now.

Honestly, compared to what Obama is doing this very minute to America, from open-borders to faggotizing the nation, I can’t muster up a single solitary damn about anything to do with Putin.


36 posted on 07/25/2014 12:28:52 PM PDT by greene66
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin
The Russian Bear does dump in the woods, and the Chinese Dragon barfs on the people.. and the American Zero pisses on the Constitution.. as the English Lion sprays foul smelling stuff on all of URP..

Putin is a cog in a world wide machine..
The chinese curse of wishing "Interesting Times" on you.. is at hand..

Amazing how accurate the John Birch Society in their prohecys..
AND the wisdom of Barry Goldwater was in seeing the future..

Obama is indeed a PUNISHMENT to the United States..
the half has not been told............... YET....

The GAME MUST continue... until it's DONE..
UNless the elite political class is pulled down...
click for VIDEO--


37 posted on 07/25/2014 12:33:50 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jsanders2001

Obama will be gone in a couple of years, and a strong leader, should one be found, will restore the national pride much as Reagan did in the 80s.

Putin’s influence will be much more difficult to overcome, he will never leave, pulling the strings from behind the scenes. That’s what you can do if you are ex kgb and have stolen your country’s treasure to the tune of 50-75 billion dollars. Obama is a piker compared to Putin.

Your dislike of Obama has hopefully only temporarily caused you to lose your perspective.


38 posted on 07/25/2014 12:44:20 PM PDT by dmz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: DesertRhino
>>>>>>If Facebook is ever in conflict with Wikipedia, which one should we believe?<<<<<<<<

Twitter.

39 posted on 07/25/2014 12:59:24 PM PDT by DTA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Buchanan weaving his lies again to support his pipe dream of isolationism. What Bush said has to be looked in context of 1991. He was not against Ukrainian state. He warned about national tensions like between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagorno-Karabakh_War

About 40 thousand people died in that conflict and it was not the only conflict like this. That is what George Bush was against, not Ukrainian state.


40 posted on 07/25/2014 1:05:22 PM PDT by Krosan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

No. His body count isn’t that high—yet.


41 posted on 07/25/2014 1:05:49 PM PDT by Politicalkiddo (You cannot protect a child from child abuse by aborting it. Abortion *is* child abuse.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

It seems that Pat believes that FDR’s friendliness and appeasement toward Stalin set the standard by which US-Russia relations should be measured today.


42 posted on 07/25/2014 1:08:21 PM PDT by Rockingham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: vaudine
.
43 posted on 07/25/2014 1:20:05 PM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Tailgunner Joe

Hey sparky, VK is Russian Facebook.


44 posted on 07/25/2014 1:28:08 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: DTA

Lol. .. hashtag fact


45 posted on 07/25/2014 1:29:54 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: dmz

> Your dislike of Obama has hopefully only temporarily caused you to lose your perspective.

And what makes you think he’s going to leave? There are reports from credible sources that martial law signs are being shipped and stored at different locations that aren’t Snopes rumors which have been debunked. These reports are from credible people directly out of their mouths not posted Internet hoax rumors. I realize that could be done initially as a propaganda measure due to the Wizard of Oz administration we have in place to cause fear but it’s still best to pay attention. They’re both tyrants just different ruling styles.


46 posted on 07/25/2014 1:29:58 PM PDT by jsanders2001
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Mr_Peter

> We are being primed for war. Zero’s legacy will be WWW3.

And many politicians’ coffers will be overflowing due to their influence on getting military contracts approved...


47 posted on 07/25/2014 1:33:23 PM PDT by jsanders2001
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: DesertRhino

Girkin bragged that they shot the plane down before he knew it was a civilian airliner, then after he found out he removed the post. He’s cold busted. You can try to deny it but the whole world knows what the Russky savages did.


48 posted on 07/25/2014 1:34:17 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Kaslin

Lol

Writer yo be trippin!


49 posted on 07/25/2014 1:35:05 PM PDT by wardaddy (we will not take backour way of life through peaceful means.....i have 5 kids....i fear for them)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jsanders2001

Obama has done more damage to the USA than Putin.


50 posted on 07/25/2014 1:37:33 PM PDT by lonestar (It takes a village of idiots to elect a village idiot.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-68 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson