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Is Putin Worse Than Stalin?
Drudge Report ^ | 7-25-14 | Pat Buchanan

Posted on 07/25/2014 8:22:48 PM PDT by duckln

In Ukraine, Putin responded to a U.S.-backed coup, which ousted a democratically elected political ally of Russia, with a bloodless seizure of the pro-Russian Crimea where Moscow has berthed its Black Sea fleet since the 18th century. This is routine Big Power geopolitics.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: buchanan; flexibility; kgbputin; kgbputinfanclub; searchitisyourfriend; stalin
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1 posted on 07/25/2014 8:22:48 PM PDT by duckln
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To: duckln

Based on just the headline I have to ask: Is the author stoned?


2 posted on 07/25/2014 8:30:58 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: duckln

Stalin was much worse. Stalin was more competent. Putin just screws up everything he tries to do and invariably causes a lot of damage to innocent people in the process.


3 posted on 07/25/2014 8:37:42 PM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: duckln

Pat Buchanan sets up a straw man when he argues that since Putin isn’t as bad as Stalin, what is he is doing is OK.

I hear that the rebels wouldn’t know how to use the rocket launchers by them selves and must have had direct Russian assistance.


4 posted on 07/25/2014 8:43:59 PM PDT by garjog (Obama: bringing joy to the hearts of Terrorists everywhere.)
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To: duckln

“Putin said Stalin deserves statues in his honor as much as the late British lord protector, a “cunning fellow” who “played a very ambiguous role in Britain’s history.”...”

http://en.ria.ru/russia/20131219/185734707/Putin-Says-Stalin-No-Worse-Than-Cunning-Oliver-Cromwell.html


5 posted on 07/25/2014 8:44:36 PM PDT by ETL 2
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To: Tau Food
He got elected twice. Passed a flat tax. Supports religion and family. Defend Christians world wide. Anti gay public propaganda. Defends his country, etc.

This has him at +80%approval in Russia. I don't call this screwing up everything.

6 posted on 07/25/2014 8:45:55 PM PDT by duckln
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To: Tau Food

Putin has ultimate trump card if he can launch on his sayso alone. back in the Soviet times the Central Committee would
have the defacto power to release nukes. Now there’s just the lapdog State Duma. Putin can decide he’s is toasted at us and give a launch order? That’s a scary thought, and we had better be damned careful poking sticks at him.


7 posted on 07/25/2014 8:48:37 PM PDT by RitchieAprile
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To: duckln
He got elected twice. Passed a flat tax. Supports religion and family. Defend Christians world wide. Anti-gay public propaganda. Defends his country, etc.

He's also jailed or had murdered many who were critical of him.

This has him at +80% approval in Russia. I don't call this screwing up everything.

Ahh, that's nothing. Saddam Hussein had a 100% approval rating!

8 posted on 07/25/2014 8:56:19 PM PDT by ETL 2
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To: duckln

He also continues to arm and support America’s enemies.


9 posted on 07/25/2014 8:57:27 PM PDT by ETL 2
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To: Tau Food
Putin just screws up everything he tries to do and invariably causes a lot of damage to innocent people in the process.

Yeah, the 'former' KGB thug really does mean well. /s

10 posted on 07/25/2014 9:03:05 PM PDT by ETL 2
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To: duckln

With that headline, it’s not worth reading.


11 posted on 07/25/2014 9:05:54 PM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: garjog
Pat Buchanan sets up a straw man when he argues that since Putin isn’t as bad as Stalin, what is he is doing is OK.

That about sums it up.

PJB is old and losing it.

12 posted on 07/25/2014 9:12:12 PM PDT by FreeReign
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To: duckln

Yushchenko: Russia blocking poisoning probe
By Bonnie Malkin and agencies, September 12, 2007

Mr Yushchenko, a pro-European politician who wanted to bring his country [The Ukraine] out of Russia’s shadow, fell seriously ill on September 6, 2004 as he was competing in presidential elections against a pro-Moscow candidate, Viktor Yanukovich, now prime minister.

After months of tests in an Austrian clinic, it was determined that he had ingested a massive amount of the poison dioxin.

Although he survived, his face was left bloated and pockmarked, and he has had to undergo regular treatment to rid his body of the toxin.

In an interview with Le Figaro he said he believed the dioxin used to disfigure him was made in a Russian lab.

Mr Yushchenko did not directly accuse the Russian government of being behind his poisoning, but he did say he had ‘practically put all the pieces together’ and the attempt against him ‘was not a private action’. ...”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1562838/Yushchenko-Russia-blocking-poisoning-probe.html


13 posted on 07/25/2014 9:13:13 PM PDT by ETL 2
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To: duckln

The article seems mistitled. Why not “Long History of
Engagement Between US and Russian Tyrants”? I don’t see
much in the way of comparisons between Putin and Stalin.

Putin is Pee Wee Herman compared to Stalin.....so far.


14 posted on 07/25/2014 9:13:41 PM PDT by Sivad (NorCal red turf)
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To: duckln

Putin’s Poison?
by Peter Brookes, November 27, 2006

The death of former Russian spy, Alexander Litvinenko, last week from radioactive Polonium-210 poisoning is the latest in a series of politically motivated attacks on the outspoken opponents of Russian President Vladimir Putin.

http://www.heritage.org/Press/Commentary/ed112706a.cfm


15 posted on 07/25/2014 9:13:43 PM PDT by ETL 2
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To: duckln

Symposium: To Kill a Russian Journalist
By Jamie Glazov
FrontPageMagazine.com | November 17, 2006

The murder of internationally renowned Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya in early October 2006 was yet another troubling sign of Russia’s retreat into its totalitarian past. Today Frontpage Symposium has gathered a distinguished panel of experts to discuss why Anna Politkovskaya was killed and what the tragic loss of her life symbolizes about the direction in which Vladimir Putin’s Russia is heading.

http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=1490
_______________________________________________________

‘PUTIN’S RUSSIA’ by Anna Politkovskaya:
http://www.amazon.com/PUTINS-RUSSIA-ANNA-POLITKOVSKAYA/dp/1843430509


16 posted on 07/25/2014 9:18:25 PM PDT by ETL 2
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To: duckln

From a 2007 article titled “Putin’s Russia”...
(not to be confused with the previously mentioned book)

“KGB influence ‘soars under Putin,’ “ blared the headline of a BBC online article for December 13, 2006. The following day, a similar headline echoed a similarly alarming story at the website of Der Spiegel, one of Germany’s largest news magazines: “Putin’s Russia: Kremlin Riddled with Former KGB Agents.

In the opening sentences of Der Spiegel’s article, readers are informed that: “Four out of five members of Russia’s political and business elite have a KGB past, according to a new study by the prestigious [Russian] Academy of Sciences. The influence of ex-Soviet spies has ballooned under President Vladimir Putin.” ...”

http://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/item/8420-putins-russia


17 posted on 07/25/2014 9:21:20 PM PDT by ETL 2
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To: duckln

It would be difficult for anyone in Russia today to be as bad as Stalin was.


18 posted on 07/25/2014 9:25:33 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: ETL 2

Saddam did not have 100%


19 posted on 07/25/2014 9:29:18 PM PDT by duckln
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To: ETL 2
In the case of Syria he right. Facts are he's cooperating with us on Iran. He's supporting us in Afghan.

Who are our 'enemies he's supporting?

20 posted on 07/25/2014 9:33:07 PM PDT by duckln
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To: Star Traveler
The headline is not the best, but it's worth reading, if you want to be balanced.

Sadly there's little balance on Putin, considering all the Putin drivel on FR.

21 posted on 07/25/2014 9:37:35 PM PDT by duckln
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To: duckln

I don’t think Vlad has anywhere near the body count to be worse than Stalin. Which is not quite the same as saying he’s a saint among men.


22 posted on 07/25/2014 9:46:34 PM PDT by RichInOC ("It's good to be tsar.")
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To: ETL 2
I don't know enough about their internal politics to judge.

Remember when Rush had a long list of 'in the Clinton circle' people who were murdered.

23 posted on 07/25/2014 9:47:33 PM PDT by duckln
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To: ETL 2
If Putin relied on RPVs with missiles to kill Russian citizens in foreign countries it would be alright?

Must be since King Barry using that approach hasn't been an emotional topic on FR for the same people who know every detail about every Russian citizen Putin is supposedly responsible for murdering.

Maybe he'll use an approved technology if you write him a letter suggesting he do so.

24 posted on 07/25/2014 10:22:42 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: duckln

Don’t have to I know Pat’s views.....and he like Alex Jones is one of those who lives in fantasy land.

Apparently Pat forgot that when the Soviet Union fell apart that they signed a treaty that said the Ukraine was sovereign territory and that they would come to the aid of the Ukraine if it was attacked.

Now under Putin the Soviet Union (formerly known as Russia) is back at it. The way Putin handles the press would make old Joe proud


25 posted on 07/25/2014 10:25:07 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

nah it is just the brain dead rantings of Pat Buchanan.... one of those grand old (hate) America firsters


26 posted on 07/25/2014 10:26:04 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: duckln

I’ve been puzzled @ the Putin baiting. I didn’t understand Buchanan but he was years ahead of us.

Two quick questions:

Who tried to warn us of the Boston bombers?
a.CIA?
b.FBI?
c.NSA?
d.TSA?
e.Putin’s Russia?

Who bailed us out of a war in Syria that 85% of Americans opposed (including most conservatives) and would have allied us with what we now know as ISIS?
a.Democrats?
b.Republicans?
c.Protesers?
d.Putin himself?

We also don’t hear that the Ukrainians have been indiscriminately shelling civilians in East Ukraine for months, killing hundreds. The Russian people are upset @ Putin for his WEAK response! From what I read, Putin’s high approval rating is a myth.


27 posted on 07/25/2014 10:26:14 PM PDT by Forgotten Amendments (Peace On Earth! Purity of Essence! McCain/Ripper 2016)
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To: Tau Food

Give him time


28 posted on 07/25/2014 10:26:30 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: garjog

Read the Wikipedia article on Vasili Blokhin, then get back to me.


29 posted on 07/25/2014 10:26:58 PM PDT by kiryandil (making the jests that some FReepers aren't allowed to...)
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To: duckln
Putin killed Chechen Muslims. The Muslim-In-Chief disapproves.
30 posted on 07/25/2014 10:29:50 PM PDT by kiryandil (making the jests that some FReepers aren't allowed to...)
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To: duckln

You must be reading way too much RT and listening to way too much Alex.

Your delusion that Putin supports any religion other than his KGB communism is astonishingly naive. He does not defend Christians anywhere. He is not defending his ‘country’ he is expanding his empire.


31 posted on 07/25/2014 10:30:26 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: duckln

You truly are delusional. Must have spent too much time around Madison breathing the second hand toke


32 posted on 07/25/2014 10:32:21 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: duckln
He got elected twice.

In elections widely regarded to be entirely corrupt and fraudulent.

Passed a flat tax.

Because he owns billions in stock, and so do his buddies. Russia is a gangster state.

Supports religion and family.

Russia is a central hub in the global sex trade. Russian soldiers are raped by their senior officers as part of their hazing. Journalists and political opponents are routinely arrested, or beaten, or even murdered. Just the other day, two folks were sentenced to hard labor at a prison camp.

Defend Christians world wide.

He is aiding Iran with their nuclear program and is protecting them internationally. Russia has also signed on to investigate Israel for war crimes.

Defends his country,

Literally, his country, though he does not care so much for the serfs who live on it.

This has him at +80%approval in Russia.

He owns their media and gets rid of his opponents in a country that still pines over Joseph Stalin. It would be weird if he didn't get 80 percent approval.

33 posted on 07/25/2014 10:33:37 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: kiryandil
Putin killed Chechen Muslims. The Muslim-In-Chief disapproves.

And today he gives them billions of dollars and has a Chechen Muslim as a puppet President, who in return for Putin's rubles names parts of cities for Putin, and even delivers 99 percent of the vote in Soviet style elections for Putin's party. Meanwhile, he is openly building Chechnya as a Islamic state.

34 posted on 07/25/2014 10:35:49 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: RichInOC; duckln
I don’t think Vlad has anywhere near the body count to be worse than Stalin. Which is not quite the same as saying he’s a saint among men.

Stalin was a malignant, mass-murdering psychopathic shrimp.

On his best days...

35 posted on 07/25/2014 10:37:34 PM PDT by kiryandil (making the jests that some FReepers aren't allowed to...)
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To: Forgotten Amendments
Who tried to warn us of the Boston bombers?

Who is helping Iran with their nuclear program?

1) CIA

2) FBI

3) NATO

4) Putin

Who bailed us out of a war in Syria that 85% of Americans opposed (including most conservatives) and would have allied us with what we now know as ISIS?

Who is allies with Syria, an anti-semetic state that helps fund Hizbollah to wage war on Israel?

1) USA

2) China

3) Russia

We also don’t hear that the Ukrainians have been indiscriminately shelling civilians in East Ukraine for months, killing hundreds.

Because it's Russkie BS, and most people do not believe RT anymore. What we do know, however, is that the Russkies sometimes decide to randomly shell civilians to blame on the Ukrainians. Why? Because that's what Russkies do.

36 posted on 07/25/2014 10:40:41 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; Forgotten Amendments

What does the Boston Bomber warning have to do with Iran?


37 posted on 07/25/2014 10:46:14 PM PDT by kiryandil (making the jests that some FReepers aren't allowed to...)
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To: kiryandil
What does the Boston Bomber warning have to do with Iran?

What does Putin have to do with Christian values?

38 posted on 07/25/2014 10:48:40 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Nifster
Treaty? Ratified by Congress? No, it's not a treaty and it was reported to Congress, not ratified by them as the actual treaty it served to comfort Ukraine about. Some on various committees may have known in advance, but it was never up for ratification like a treaty would be or ratified because the treaty it relates to was.

It's a "Diplomatic Memorandum" binding under International Law but not enforceable under International law. Therefore only enforceable to the extent any of the signatories are willing to enforce it in keeping with International Law that does not see a breech of a Diplomatic Memorandum as sufficient reason to declare war. An interesting situation legally.

Secreary of State John Kerry and the Ambassador from Peru can agree in a diplomatic memorandum that Paddington Bear is cool at which time that that becomes the official US opinion of said bear, enforcable under International Law to whatever degree Peru is willing to take the US to task for officially saying somethng to the contrary.

         I saw a treaty upon the stair,
         a little treaty that wasn't there,
         it wasn't there again today,
         oh how I wish it would go away

39 posted on 07/25/2014 11:01:44 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; Forgotten Amendments

Do you always answer a question with a question?


40 posted on 07/25/2014 11:04:12 PM PDT by kiryandil (making the jests that some FReepers aren't allowed to...)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

I really wish folks would start using “Russian Orthodox” instead of “Christian.” Putin cares about the former.


41 posted on 07/25/2014 11:13:08 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Rashputin
The Memorandum actually read ,,,those signing would
Respect” Ukraine's Sovereign borders.....not “Protect”.

At the time Ukraine refused to agree to it because it read so. They wanted absolute “military protection”, which none were willing to commit to, regardless of the demands they change the wording to reflect that. So by Ukraine signing it, as stated, they were well aware this would not necessarily mean the nations would provide Ukraine cover....and they also knew this would leave them vulnerable unless they built up their own military. Which they never did, and in fact it continued to deteriorate., as we all well learned during and after Crimea.

42 posted on 07/25/2014 11:25:34 PM PDT by caww
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To: kiryandil

Why do you ask? ;)


43 posted on 07/25/2014 11:26:41 PM PDT by Forgotten Amendments (Peace On Earth! Purity of Essence! McCain/Ripper 2016)
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To: 1rudeboy

Good point there is nothing Christian about the Russian Orthodox church in Russia.


44 posted on 07/25/2014 11:27:53 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: duckln

Thus is a serious commentary that deserves a serious response. The article really has not so much to do about the comparison as it drives to our current elite and administrations skewed idea of the world (both at home and abroad)and policies. Buchanan has been around the block and I believe this article has merit.

He is correct in that we had a hand in engineering the Ukraine coup. Partly with the NGOs there as a tool. Ukraine is quite useless to us as was supporting the overthrow of Mubarak in Egypt and Qaddafi in Libya. Egypt is and hopefully will be a valuable and close ally again.

Bolton, whom I like, generally, McCain and Obama and his metro-sexual advisor children are way off the mark which Buchanan tries to point out. The the incitement causing actions by the administration do nothing but to push Russia away from tables of engagement. Arming Ukraine would be stupid. World wars start this way. Far better to come to an understanding through close engagement than to saber rattle sanctions, which become tit for tat get evens.

There are enough problems in various countries where Russia can do a little and cause the US and the west grief. Unfortunately Obama and Lurch are the antithesis of a Churchill, Ike or even a FDR. So is seems also by the rants of the current Republican elite a similar lacking. History can teach us well if we use it. it seems many of our ruling elite failed history.


45 posted on 07/25/2014 11:57:14 PM PDT by Trapper6012
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To: Rashputin

Regarding Crimea .........there is a long history of Crimea trying to get it’s Independence from Ukraine:

While Crimea was officially ‘an autonomous region’ formally within Ukraine, it has its own Parliament and, up until 1995, its own President. The majority of Crimeans are Russian-speakers, ...... they have voted repeatedly for close relations with Russia throughout their history.

Crimea was unilaterally handed over to Ukraine by Nikita Khrushchev in 1954 – in a move of dubious legality – Crimea was caught between Russia and Ukraine as the old USSR collapsed.

(In 1991), the Movement for a Republic of Crimea gathered 180,000 signatures on a petition calling for a popular ‘referendum on Crimean independence’, an informal “opinion poll” was held in which the modified ‘demand for close relations with Russia’ passed overwhelmingly, and the elected Parliament adopted a resolution declaring Crimean sovereignty.

Kiev responded to this with the threat of force, and at that point the bargaining began....... The Crimeans, for their part, used the separatist threat to gain some leverage in the negotiations with Kiev:.... what they wanted – and got – was ‘control over local resources’, which were about to be “privatized” by the crooks in Kiev. and looted by various Western Ukrainian oligarchs........... The local oligarchs took exception to this, and in the end they won out:.......... Kiev basically caved and the resulting compromise kept Crimea within Ukraine, albeit ‘with full economic and political autonomy’.

The compromise, however, didn’t last long:

(in 1993), as the Ukrainian economy collapsed, the Ukrainian currency approached worthlessness, and the social fabric of what was essentially an administrative unit of the old Soviet Union rather than an actual nation came apart at the seams,....... a national movement for Crimean independence gained traction....... The presidential and parliamentary elections of (1994) gave Yuri Meshkov, a Russian nationalist, a big majority and a subsequent referendum on closer ties with Russian won nearly 80 percent of the vote.

Kiev went ballistic, and Meshkov appealed to the Russians for protection, but President Yeltsin was more interested in appeasing the West and the Crimeans were ultimately ‘left to fend for themselves’.......... The Crimean presidency was abolished by unilateral decree of the ‘Ukrainian Rada’, and troops from Western Ukraine were sent in.

That same year, Yeltsin signed a tripartite agreement with Ukraine and the US, in which the Ukrainians agreed to give up their nuclear weapons – left over from the old Soviet days widely believed to guarantee Western ‘support’ for Ukraine in the event of a threat to its arbitrarily-defined borders.

Yet the Crimean desire to be free of the Ukrainian yoke did not abate:

in (2008), the Crimean Parliament voted to recognize Abhkazia and Ossetia, two former Soviet autonomous regions that had been arbitrarily handed over to Georgia and subsequently voted to rejoin Russia........... That same year, ‘one million’ Crimeans signed a petition demanding the Russian fleet be allowed to retain its presence in Sevastopol.

In spite of threats of force, and a series of heavy-handed administrative measures, Crimean separatism has continuously bubbled just beneath the surface, ....and polls show the majority of Russian-speakers and Ukrainian-speakers favored separation....... This desire to get away was no doubt amplified a thousand-fold as a coalition of corrupt oligarchs and outright fascists with US support overthrew Viktor Yanukovich, the elected President, and the country teetered on the edge of bankruptcy and chaos.

With officials of the ultra-rightist Svoboda party – formerly the “Social National” party – in top positions in the new government in Kiev, and with the outright neo-Nazis of “Right Sector” being handed control of police and law enforcement bodies, ......Crimeans refused to recognize Kiev’s authority. .........The Crimean Parliament once again declared independence and appealed to Russia for security guarantees, ....while the head of the Ukrainian navy, which is stationed in Sevastopol, defected to the Crimean side.

http://www.wallstreetsectorselector.com/investment-articles/analyst-desk/2014/03/russia-crimea/


46 posted on 07/26/2014 12:01:36 AM PDT by caww
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To: caww
I had forgotten, if I ever really knew, Crimea was pretty much forced into Ukraine when Russia couldn't do anything about Ukraine holding a shotgun wedding.

And thanks a lot for the link, I'm saving that.

Regards

47 posted on 07/26/2014 12:09:23 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin
I looked into Crimea early on , as things are never what they seem to be when media's pushing the story. I found Crimea's history extraordinarily significant yet it's history was never made newsworthy ...of course....it would have turned the tide of all the news pundits talking points!

Regards to you as well.

48 posted on 07/26/2014 12:17:42 AM PDT by caww
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To: duckln
those listed and this....which we should be doing as well...irks me no end Putin's got more common sense then our administration regarding minorities


49 posted on 07/26/2014 12:30:26 AM PDT by caww
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To: duckln

Pat favors a Putin empire but is worried about an American one.


50 posted on 07/26/2014 12:49:23 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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