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Ukraine conflict: Rebel posters call on locals, but they’ve fled
theaustralian.com.au ^ | July 25, 2014 | CHARLES MIRANDA

Posted on 07/25/2014 8:55:02 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe

THE 1950s Soviet style rallying posters put up across the usually busy boulevards and roads in Donetsk call on locals to join the separatist fight.

“Join the People’s Army of Donetsk People’s Republic and repeat the successes of your grandfathers”, they declare.

But there is barely anyone there to read them.

Locals have instead fled the east Ukrainian city, with more than half of its population of one million fleeing across the border to Russia, creating a humanitarian crisis.

Russia has admitted it is struggling with the flood of refugees who have made the 40km dash to the border since hostilities broke out in April.

“Since April 1, more than 515,000 people have arrived from southeastern Ukraine,” said the head of Russia’s migration service (FMS), Konstantin Romodanovsky.

The influx has become a burden for southern Russian regions that border Ukraine, in particular Rostov.

Authorities have organised 400 refugee camps to offer temporary accommodation, and so far running the facilities has been up to local authorities, stretching their capacities to the limit.

Rostov region Governor Vassily Golubev said about 2000 people a day were arriving.

“Rostov and other frontline regions are working at maximum capacity,” said Ella Pamfilova, who heads President Vladimir Putin’s human rights council. “They do everything possible — both the authorities and the volunteers ... but the problems will only get worse.”


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: mh17
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1 posted on 07/25/2014 8:55:02 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Looks like they are all heading home where they belong.

Interesting that they go East rather than West proving that they are Russians at heart not assimilated Ukrainians.

May I recommend railcars — boxcars that they can ride on top of as they return to the motherland.

Instead of The Beast they can call it The Putin.


2 posted on 07/25/2014 9:07:52 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

“Locals have instead fled the east Ukrainian city, with more than half of its population of one million fleeing across the border to Russia”

Wait a minute, I’ve read repeatedly that everyone in eastern Ukraine is siding with Kiev, and are being held against their will by terrorists. Ive heard of Stockholm syndrome, but never a whole city getting it. Interesting,,,


3 posted on 07/25/2014 9:19:23 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Uncle Chip

I would also flee the government that was bombing me with airstrikes and heavy arty...


4 posted on 07/25/2014 9:21:56 PM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

As of Monday, the U.N. said that there were 80,000 displaced refugees that had fled to Russia. And that is just the ones that officially registered.
http://rbth.com/news/2014/07/23/un_refugee_agency_says_80000_flee_eastern_ukraine_38448.html
Ethnic cleansing in progress.


5 posted on 07/25/2014 10:11:36 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: 2banana
I would also flee the government that was bombing me with airstrikes and heavy arty..." Or this: Kolomoisky's Killers of Battalion "Dnepr" showing off with one of their victims, suspected of helping the rebels, somewhere east of Mariupol. AND THE MORONS POSTED IT ON TWITTER TODAY. Reminds me of the WW2 "Eisatzgruppen" pics.
6 posted on 07/25/2014 10:21:39 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf
Not ethnic cleansing at all, it's self-deportation. Kiev welcomed them but they preferred to go to Russia instead. Allowing Russian terrorists to continue using them all as human shields was not an option, just as it's not an option is Israel. Poroshenko is not guilty of ethnic cleansing any more than Netanyahu is.
7 posted on 07/25/2014 10:55:02 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

“Not ethnic cleansing at all, it’s self-deportation”

I wonder if the Hutu’s felt the same way when the Tutsi’s came for them?

Or the Jews?


8 posted on 07/25/2014 11:17:28 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Well, Putin wanted to bully this small country that Russia has historically treated with Biblical cruelty. He’s now getting some of the consequences of his reestablishing the Soviet Empire. The Russians who applaud this former communist turned kleptomaniac and ultra-nationalist crank may want to ask themselves if waging war on their neighbors is truly in their interest. Not that Putin will allow them to publically dissent.


9 posted on 07/26/2014 12:43:39 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: tcrlaf

I wonder how the Poles felt about the Katyn massacre? I wonder how they felt about Stalin’s invasion. I wonder how Ukraine felt about the Russians who starved them in 1932/33. Oh that’s right. You’re still in denial about that too and the Malaysian shoot down.


10 posted on 07/26/2014 12:46:51 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: DesertRhino

It’s the Moscow syndrome — and they are freely voting with their feet.


11 posted on 07/26/2014 3:19:58 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: tcrlaf

It’s a combat zone — it’s a war zone — and unfortunately during war enemy spies get battlefield justice.

BTW Are you ever going to tell us how you knew immediately that the Russians shot MH17 down??

Right off the bat you told us that it was the Russians who shot the plane down — allbeit accidently???

How did you know before all the evidence came out???


12 posted on 07/26/2014 3:32:41 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: 2banana

If anything that the shootdown of MH17 and its aftermath should have demonstrated to you, it’s that both sides in this conflict are not morally equivalent.

One side shoots, loots and scoots, and the other side gathers up the remains and deals with the consequences.

One side are Russians invading another country to loot it, the other side are citizens of that country defending it.

The interlopers running back to Russia now are the immigrants who never assimilated and never intended to and invited in the invading Russian army while their Ukrainian neighbors were forced to flee.


13 posted on 07/26/2014 4:01:32 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip
Interesting that they go East rather than West proving that they are Russians at heart not assimilated Ukrainians.

This was never in doubt.

14 posted on 07/26/2014 8:29:48 AM PDT by Drew68
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To: Uncle Chip

“tell us how you knew immediately that the Russians shot MH17 down?”

Because I knew, despite the denials of Kiev, and the likes of you, that the rebels had over-run the AA regiment in Donetsk, and likely had at least one of these. The question was, did it actually work, or not.

Kiev, of course, denied that it did. And the usual suspects called me names for mentioning it, of course.

And it had shot down the AN-26 a few days before.
It’s called PAYING ATTENTION to what is going on.

I also realize how stupid it is to fly a commercial airliner over an active war zone where planes are being shot down. IMO, from the time I first heard about it, I didn’t think it could be anything else.

The ATC tapes for the Airliner that went down in Africa have already been released. Why haven’t the ATC Tapes for MH17 been released, yet? Or do you not have the intellectual curiosity to ask such a question?


15 posted on 07/26/2014 9:32:29 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Uncle Chip
"It’s a combat zone — it’s a war zone — and unfortunately during war enemy spies get battlefield justice." Einsatzgruppen - Ukraine, 1942 Right Sector - Ukraine, 2014
16 posted on 07/26/2014 9:38:45 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/17/flight-mh17-crash-photos_n_5595830.html

and they weren’t partisans.


17 posted on 07/26/2014 9:55:41 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: tcrlaf
The question was, did it actually work, or not.

and they would have to have Russian training, assistance, and operators in order to use it.

18 posted on 07/26/2014 10:01:45 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

“they would have to have Russian training, assistance, and operators in order to use it.”

Not really...
As I said before, there were reports at the time that several of the AA regiment went over to the rebels. IMO, it is quite believable, especially in a country with universal conscription, that one or two people already knew the basics of how to use it.

How hard would it be, in your town, to find an ex-Mil that could operate an M1 Abrams? And remember, Soviet-Era equipment was designed to be used by barely-trained, barely-literate conscripts.

That’s why this stuff is so popular in the third world.


19 posted on 07/26/2014 10:19:26 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
"Not ethnic cleansing at all, it's self-deportation."

Had to LOL at that one.

20 posted on 07/26/2014 10:22:10 AM PDT by McGruff (We can't even secure our border never mind Ukraine's.)
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To: tcrlaf
Because I knew, despite the denials of Kiev

Let me remind you that immediately after the shootdown, Kiev said that the Russian rebels shot it down.

Well look at that --

Isn't that the same thing you said???

You and Kiev saying the same thing early on.

And yet for 10 days you have fed us the Russian propaganda that Kiev statements were lies.

And you had the audacity to question the tweets and posts of Russian military gloating over the plane that they had just brought down in which they said exactly what you said.

And while Kiev gives the Dutch full access to the shootdown site and full unimpeded rights to investigate the site, your Russian thugs loot and lie their heads off doing everything they can to keep them from the site. Uhhh but Kiev is lying, right???

Moscow isn't, right???

If you love Moscow so much why don't you go back there.

21 posted on 07/26/2014 10:24:06 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: tcrlaf

very hard especially if they are not maintained and these weren’t and because the Russian rebels had no air force to use them against.


22 posted on 07/26/2014 10:25:40 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

“And yet for 10 days you have fed us the Russian propaganda that Kiev statements were lies.”

Link please?

“And you had the audacity to question the tweets and posts of Russian military gloating over the plane”

Link please?

“your Russian thugs”

There you go again with the strawmen argument.
Please link to whenever I have EVER aid any of the things you claim.

You can disagree, but do you really have to lie, and accuse me of saying things I never did?


23 posted on 07/26/2014 10:36:05 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: McGruff

“Not ethnic cleansing at all, it’s self-deportation.”
Had to LOL at that one.

I wonder if the Jews of Eastern Europe felt that same way in 1942?


24 posted on 07/26/2014 10:37:21 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf
Links please?

Are these your words:

Because I knew, despite the denials of Kiev ...

How quickly you forget

25 posted on 07/26/2014 10:42:31 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

“very hard especially if they are not maintained and these weren’t “

These people are getting WW2 tanks that have been sitting on outdoor memorial stands for almost 70 years, running and into action.

What would be so hard, especially when you capture the maintenance facility??


26 posted on 07/26/2014 10:43:04 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Uncle Chip

“Because I knew, despite the denials of Kiev ...”

Lol.. Now you are trying a circular argument, about something that has NOTHING to do with what you claimed.

An 8th-grader could do better. It’s kinda pathetic, actually.


27 posted on 07/26/2014 10:44:31 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf
Link please?

So are you going to tell me that they didn't gloat over the downing of the plane???

or are you going to tell me that their gloats were lies???

28 posted on 07/26/2014 10:45:10 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

“So are you going to tell me that they didn’t gloat over the downing of the plane???”

Link please?
Strawmen simply don’t work, kid. You sound as if you are getting desperate.


29 posted on 07/26/2014 10:46:13 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf

That’s just for starters — but confronting you with your words is not worth my time.


30 posted on 07/26/2014 10:46:42 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: tcrlaf

Kiev told the truth from the beginning regarding who shot down MH17, didn’t they???

Meanwhile Moscow is still lying about it and denying that the rebels brought it down, aren’t they???

And you stand by Moscow —


31 posted on 07/26/2014 10:51:59 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

“And you stand by Moscow —”

LINK PLEASE???
Why do you insist on pimping a lie like that??

You accuse me of things, put words in my mouth, and then cannot back them up. Are you 12? Act like an adult.


32 posted on 07/26/2014 11:20:20 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Uncle Chip

“but confronting you with your words is not worth my time.”

Lol...
So you admit you are just making things up. This is like arguing with my 12-yr old girl.


33 posted on 07/26/2014 11:21:19 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf
“And you stand by Moscow —” LINK PLEASE???

You do claim that the Russian rebels captured a Buk missile launcher loaded with SAMs from a Ukrainian armory, don't you???

Moscow claims the same thing.

The Ukrainians deny it

You stand with Moscow on that issue, don't you????

I rest my case --------- and I did it without links.

34 posted on 07/26/2014 11:38:25 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

lol...
That is quite convoluted.

So, if I don’t accept what Kiev says without question, and do my own research into what is true and what isn’t, I’m a “Russian Today”??

You are one weird dude.

That worked well for you during the Obama Campaign, didn’t it.
I’m surprised you just didn’t call me a “Racist that hates the idea of a Black President”, too!


35 posted on 07/26/2014 11:44:53 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf; Uncle Chip

There’s no proof that the Russian terrorists took the BUK from the Ukrainians. That’s just what the Russians said, and so tcrlaf repeated it here, just like he always repeats whatever the Russians say. Most likely, that was just a cover story to provide Putin plausible deniability when in fact he gave the terrorist insurgents the BUK, which has now been returned to Russia. If one believes whatever the lying Russians say, then they will go around repeating dirty Russky lies all the time.


36 posted on 07/26/2014 11:45:51 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

“There’s no proof that the Russian terrorists took the BUK from the Ukrainians.”

Now you are just being an idiot. Stop embarrassing yourself.
This was posted on FR the day it happened.

http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2014_06_29/Donetsk-militia-takes-control-of-Ukrainian-anti-air-installation-1561/

Good day, child.


37 posted on 07/26/2014 11:50:21 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Could the pro-Russian rebels have acquired a serviceable Buk from a Ukrainian base and operated it? The evidence is circumstantial; a great deal of Ukrainian military hardware is in poor condition or redundant.

But on June 29, rebels raided the Ukrainian army’s A-1402 missile facility near Donetsk. Photographs show them examining what they found.

The Russian website Vosti ran an article the same day titled “Skies of Donetsk will be defended by surface-to-air missile system Buk.”

The article claimed: “The anti-air defense point is one of the divisions of the missile corps and is equipped with motorized “Buk” anti-aircraft missile systems.”

Peter Felstead, an expert on former Soviet military hardware at Janes IHS, says that “the Buk is in both the Russian and Ukrainian inventories, but it’s unclear whether the one suspected in the shoot-down was taken by rebels when they overran a Ukrainian base, or was supplied by Russia.”

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/20/world/europe/ukraine-rebels-weapons/


38 posted on 07/26/2014 11:51:09 AM PDT by McGruff (We can't even secure our border never mind Ukraine's.)
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To: tcrlaf
Your “proof” is a press release from the voice of russia, Kremlin controlled media. Exactly as I said, you repeated Russian claims without offering any proof, just like you always do, tovarisch.

You are nothing but a shameless mouthpiece for Kremlin propaganda.

Dasvidanya, tovarisch.

39 posted on 07/26/2014 11:55:43 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: tcrlaf

These are your words aren’t they:

“Because I knew, despite the denials of Kiev, and the likes of you, that the rebels had over-run the AA regiment in Donetsk, and likely had at least one of these....”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3185208/posts?page=35#15

Moscow is the source of this report that you have been pushing here — right???


40 posted on 07/26/2014 11:56:41 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Lol...
Keep trying...
It is quite funny to watch your spin. It’s like when my kid was younger. Quite cute.


41 posted on 07/26/2014 12:01:55 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: McGruff
Yes exactly as I said Russian media made the claim, and if you believe whatever Russians say and are a Kremlin mouthpiece like tcrlaf, then you will repeat it and call people names who point out that Russians always lie.

As the more realistic and reliable source Jane’s points out, it could havevactually been supplied by Russia.

But tcrlaf’s goal is to absolve the Russians and cover up their crimes, so he repeats their propaganda shamelessly and insults anyone who casts doubt on it.

42 posted on 07/26/2014 12:01:56 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: tcrlaf

You post Voice of Russia as proof of the lies you have been repeating here for days???

Does your wife check your computer activity???


43 posted on 07/26/2014 12:02:36 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: tcrlaf

You’re not funny at all. You’re a repulsive piece of garbage.


44 posted on 07/26/2014 12:03:08 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Uncle Chip

Blah,blah, blah...


45 posted on 07/26/2014 12:05:09 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Uncle Chip
Of course Moscow is the source of his claim, just like Moscow is the source of everything he posts here.
46 posted on 07/26/2014 12:05:23 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: tcrlaf

You are the Voice of Moscow.


47 posted on 07/26/2014 12:06:30 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Any more child-like insults you’d like to throw out there?
I’m keeping a list.


48 posted on 07/26/2014 12:07:41 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Uncle Chip

Have you stopped beating your wife?


49 posted on 07/26/2014 12:08:23 PM PDT by McGruff (We can't even secure our border never mind Ukraine's.)
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To: tcrlaf

These are your words aren’t they:

“Because I knew, despite the denials of Kiev, and the likes of you, that the rebels had over-run the AA regiment in Donetsk, and likely had at least one of these....”

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3185208/posts?page=35#15

Moscow is the source of this report that you have been pushing here for 10 days and you have the audacity to come on here today and try to distance yourself from Moscow —

Your lies don’t fly, Igor —


50 posted on 07/26/2014 12:17:00 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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