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5 Reasons Reparations For Slavery Are A Bad Idea
Townhall ^ | July 26, 2014 | John Hawkins

Posted on 07/25/2014 10:12:57 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Terrible ideas never really die on the Left; they just come back over and over again, like a gas station sandwich after a night of heavy drinking. So it is with reparations for slavery, which liberals would happily embrace en masse if they ever thought they could ram it through Congress. Here's why reparations for slavery are a bad idea.

1) How do you prove that slavery is responsible for problems black Americans are having today? If it were 1866, it would be easy to prove that black Americans who had been enslaved were hurt by the practice. They were mistreated, deprived of their freedom, and were not paid wages for their labor.

On the other hand, if you fast forward to today, it’s extraordinarily difficult to show that anybody’s problems were caused by something that happened almost 150 years ago. Keep in mind that there were white indentured servants forced to work alongside slaves back then. There were white Americans who were kidnapped and enslaved by the Barbary pirates. There were Japanese and Italian Americans who were forced into internment camps during WWII and many of them actually had their property confiscated and sold. The relatives of many Jewish Holocaust survivors live in America as well. So while black Americans have been treated worse than any other group in America, there are a lot of other groups that have seemingly bounced back with little damage from how they’ve been treated in the past.

Additionally, while black Americans are indisputably doing worse than most other groups in America, there are certain subsets of African-Americans that are doing just fine. For example, black female college graduates make 102% of what white female college graduates earn. African immigrants also outperform black Americans who were born here in a number of ways.

A new paper (pdf) from University of Chicago PhD candidate Alison Rauh finds that black immigrants tend to be more successful than black Americans. They out-earn black natives (after accounting for age) and are more likely to be employed. This is not surprising; white immigrant groups outperform their native cohort too. But what’s most intriguing is how their children fare. The children of black immigrants are more likely to go to and complete college than native blacks (and whites) and are less likely to drop out of high school. The children of black immigrants also earn more than native blacks or first generation immigrants.

If there are certain subsets of black Americans who are doing well, that suggests that there is no one universal factor like slavery that can be blamed for the difficulties black Americans face.

2) Who would pay reparations? If John Smith gets drunk, runs a stop light, and hits the car of Susie Jones, we know who's at fault. It's John Smith. We also know that Susie Jones is the injured party. We can look at the damage to the car, injuries to Susie Jones, and costs she had to bear because of the wreck and get a rough idea of damages that she sustained because of John Smith's behavior.

How do you make any of those determinations with reparations?

The Civil War ended in 1865; so all the slaves and slave masters are all long dead. Moreover, even in the South, depending on which numbers you believe, somewhere between 80-95% of white Americans never owned slaves. There were also several thousand BLACK AMERICANS who owned slaves -- yes, really. Certainly they would be more responsible for slavery than a white man who didn't own slaves, right? Getting beyond the South, why would a white northerner from a state that didn't have slaves owe "reparations" for slavery? For example, what wrong would a Republican abolitionist -- who hated slavery, voted for Abe Lincoln, and fought in the Civil War -- have done that would require "reparations?"

We don't hold people responsible for what their ancestors did and even if we did, most white Americans, even in the South, didn't own slaves. So 149 years after the Civil War ended, there simply is no way to hold the people responsible for slavery accountable for what they did. Victimizing people who did nothing wrong today to make up for a wrong that was done 150 years ago wouldn't make anything right.

3) Who would receive reparations? There are no living slaves; so it's impossible to compensate the people who were hurt by the cruel and oppressive practice of slavery. So, would we compensate black Americans in general on the theory that slavery has held them back? Blaming the economic problems someone has today on something that happened to his ancestors almost a century and a half ago seems like one heck of a stretch, but let's say we buy into the argument. What do we do about people like Barack Obama and Tiger Woods who are of mixed heritage? Would Obama pay reparations to himself? Would a black man who immigrated to the United States a decade ago be eligible? What about incredibly wealthy black Americans like Oprah Winfrey, Michael Jordan, and BET's Robert Johnson? Why should some white middle manager in suburbia be asked to kick in money for them?

These are the sort of thorny questions you have to wrestle with when you're talking about "reparations" as opposed to a communistic "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" transfer of wealth from one group of people to another, which is really what most people who support reparations seem to want to see happen.

4) It focuses on the wrong solution: Just giving people money seldom helps to fix their problem. That’s why America’s “war on poverty” has been an utter and complete failure. After doling out more than 21 trillion dollars over the last 50 years, we’ve done nothing to reduce the poverty rate.

Shortly after the War on Poverty got rolling (1967), about 27% of Americans lived in poverty. In 2012, the last year for which data is available, the number was about 29%.’

In fact, it’s entirely possible that the poverty rate would be LOWER today if there had never been a “war on poverty.” You can see this same dynamic with aid to Africa. After handing out more than a trillion dollars, much of the continent has gone BACKWARDS over the last 10-15 years. Even winning the lottery doesn’t tend to make a generational impact.

A paper by economists Hoyt Bleakley and Joseph Ferrie traced the results of the Georgia land lottery down the generations. They found that, “one generation after the distribution of the Georgia land, sons of winners have no better adult outcomes (wealth, income, literacy) than the sons of non-winners, and winners’ grandchildren do not have higher literacy or school attendance than non-winners’ grandchildren.”

Of course, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do anything. No American should have to live in an area where he’s afraid to let his children play in the yard because drug dealers sell openly on the corner. Terrible inner city schools disproportionately impact black Americans. That’s why school vouchers and charter schools disproportionately benefit them. Slashing tax rates in depressed areas down to almost nothing would encourage businesses to move in and would help black entrepreneurs. Micro-loans could help aspiring small business owners to get on their feet. Helping black Americans to help themselves would do more to create success and prosperity than any giveaway program ever could.

5) The government has already paid out an enormous amount of “reparations:” Just to give you an idea of how common slavery is in human history, keep in mind that the Brits who brought American colonists here kept slaves. The Indians we took the land from kept slaves. Our neighbors to the north and south (Canada and Mexico) kept slaves. We acquired slaves from nations in Africa that kept slaves. Many of the slaves that ended up in America were captured by Middle Eastern slave traders who also kept slaves. Even some white Americans were enslaved by the Barbary pirates.

Still America had a particularly large and thriving slave trade and we’ve already paid an enormous price as a nation for it, starting with the 625,000 Americans who died during the Civil War. Keep in mind that America had a population roughly 1/10 the size we have today; so that would be the rough equivalent of 6.25 million Americans dying today. As a point of comparison, the 2nd term of the Bush Administration was practically destroyed by less than 4,500 military deaths in Iraq.

Additionally, although whites make up the majority of Americans on welfare, percentage wise, roughly twice as many black Americans take government assistance as white Americans. Additionally there are Affirmative Action programs and racial set-asides that discriminate against white and Asian Americans to make it easier for black Americans to get jobs and get into college.

So, when you add it all up, hundreds of thousands of Americans have died, numerous special programs have been created for black Americans, and trillions in government assistance have already been paid out. Other than Great Britain, there’s no other nation on Planet Earth that’s done even a fraction of that much to make up for engaging in slavery. So, if anyone wants reparations, it would be fair to say that they’ve already been paid.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government
KEYWORDS: blacks; civilwar; reparations; slavery

1 posted on 07/25/2014 10:12:57 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Reparations ARE being paid.

Head Start. Food stamps. Free lunches. Free schools. Free housing - Section 8. Free Obama phones.

The prison system alone is costing us billions.

Slavery has been a net cost of trillions of dollars to our country and, given the present regime, it arguably was a fatal wound out our founding.


2 posted on 07/25/2014 10:15:39 PM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Liberals are here doing the very thing they claim to hate — sticking stereotypical tags on people.

Another thing that reparations mongers often fail to notice is that the instituting of welfare doles (as opposed to private charity, which long existed without ill effect) dragged the average status of black families way DOWN from what it had been at the end of Jim Crow.


3 posted on 07/25/2014 10:18:05 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Reparations have already been paid manifold, in welfare, school lunches and breakfasts, affirmative action, busing, etc.


4 posted on 07/25/2014 10:18:24 PM PDT by truth_seeker
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To: TigerClaws

And, the suckage of liberalism in general.

There was a lot of spiritual dodging that had to take place in order to stomach chattel slavery, a kind of slavery far more profound than that which gets cited in the New Testament.

When slavery was finally abolished, this other heritage did not go away. Like a cat trying to cover its droppings in concrete, our dear Democrats hung on to it, instituting things like Jim Crow laws.

Finally the Democrats hit on the idea of throwing black people a constant pity party with the public purse. That got 100+ years of Jim Crow, and more of the brutalities of actual chattel slavery, just forgotten like it didn’t happen.


5 posted on 07/25/2014 10:22:21 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: TigerClaws

add Pigford to the list


6 posted on 07/25/2014 10:22:59 PM PDT by Michael.SF. (It takes a gun to feed a village)
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To: TigerClaws

To the radical types who are pushing slavery reparations, none of the government anti-poverty programs matter. They want cash. Show me the money is their mantra.

If we ever did do cash reparations for slavery, I think it wouldn’t make any difference. At the risk of being called racist and bigoted and all that, to give large sums of money to ghetto type people, people who have no experience and no understanding of how to handle money, will not benefit them. Giving money to people who don’t know how to manage it, will result in them spending it foolishly, or falling prey to con men and scams.

Even if we ever did this, it would not improve the lives of the bulk of poverty stricken black Americans. For every 1 who managed the money properly, 10 others would waste it and be left with nothing.


7 posted on 07/25/2014 10:24:12 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego (s)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

No blacks alive today have been slaves.


8 posted on 07/25/2014 10:24:51 PM PDT by Beowulf9
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To: Beowulf9

They are only slaves to what they have voluntarily embraced.


9 posted on 07/25/2014 10:25:19 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

My great-great-grandfather was killed fighting against slavery in the Union Army. How much am I going to get paid for reparations???


10 posted on 07/25/2014 10:27:15 PM PDT by kaehurowing
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To: Beowulf9

Sometimes people point to reparations paid to Japanese-Americans who were interred during World War II. But those reparations went to the actual people who were in the camps who were still living at the time that reparations were paid out. If I recall correctly, each internee got $20,000.

So, if they really want to use this as a precedent, we could point out, as you just did, that everyone who was ever a slave died long ago. Thus, nobody is still alive who could be paid reparations.


11 posted on 07/25/2014 10:27:37 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego (s)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

??? Reparations?

How about reparations to whites for being discriminated by affirmative action and diversity policies?


12 posted on 07/25/2014 10:31:29 PM PDT by sickoflibs (King Obama : 'The debate is over. The time for talk is over. Just follow my commands you serfs""')
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To: kaehurowing

My great-great-grandfather was killed fighting against slavery in the Union Army. How much am I going to get paid for reparations???


I also lost a relative in that war. I’ll settle for a million bucks.


13 posted on 07/25/2014 10:33:34 PM PDT by laplata (Liberals don't get it .... their minds are diseased.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Proving dissonance?

Silly article....

/s


14 posted on 07/25/2014 10:49:57 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

My contribution:

6) Let us say that reparations are granted. Can we then put
an end to all discussions regarding past indiscretions
committed against people of color? Or is the issue going
to bubble up to the surface every couple of generations
with new generations demanding reparations? What happens
when a person wins a judgment and collects in a civil suit? When he runs out of money does he get to go back and sue
for more?

If I had to pay reparations to people who were not
personally victims I would surely demand that the issue
go away once and for all. I don’t even want to hear about
it.....Slavery...Civil War...Jim Crow...Civil Rights...
affirmative action...reparations...end of story. Shove
your money, shut-up, and sit down!


15 posted on 07/25/2014 10:50:52 PM PDT by Sivad (NorCal red turf)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
If my great great great grandfather died owing a bill to the butcher, I am not responsible for paying it. Nor are the grandfathers and father before me. They can take it out of GGGGrandfather's estate, but they cannot come after his descendents to pay the bill from their own pockets. They did not make the debt. Just as you cannot be jailed for a crime committed by your father, you cannot be made accountable financially for his debts. I don't know why, in this situation, people who had nothing to do with slavery are supposed to owe something to an entire class of people who may or may not have descended from slaves.

Add to that the very high percentage of people whose ancestors did not even immigrate to America until well after slavery was abolished. Why would they owe anything?

16 posted on 07/25/2014 11:05:52 PM PDT by informavoracious (Open your eyes, people!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Once people find they can vote themselves benefits,
And once a nation loses control of its borders,
Those are two signs heralding the end of the republic.
And they have both come to pass.


17 posted on 07/25/2014 11:10:59 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

my Southern ancesters already paid....


18 posted on 07/25/2014 11:24:30 PM PDT by LeoWindhorse
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

My family never owned slaves

In fact my grandparents did not even arrive in this country until the 20th Centuary (one set of grandparents from Canada,
other from Russia)

Therefore will refuse to pay any reparations


19 posted on 07/25/2014 11:34:25 PM PDT by njslim (T)
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To: truth_seeker

Reparations take away the challenge of earning a living like everybody else. And, are the black people legitimately employed going to pay the “reparations” for - - - themselves??!! Hmmmm.


20 posted on 07/26/2014 12:37:14 AM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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I WANT REPARATIONS FROM BLACK AMERICA FOR (WHAT EVER PERCENTAGE OF THE POPULACE IT IS) DESTROYING OUR LANGUAGE AND CULTURE, RUINING OUR CITIES...FOR THE KILLINGS, RAPINGS, BEATINGS, AND OVERALL GENERAL LOWER QUALITY OF LIFE IN AMERICA...

How's that?

21 posted on 07/26/2014 1:43:57 AM PDT by Captainpaintball (Immigration without assimilation is the death of a nation)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Always the victim.
Blacks worldwide Always are the put upon instead of doing well in school and bettering themselves they play race games.
And obammy is great at that role.
Quota boy is pathetic.


22 posted on 07/26/2014 3:24:08 AM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) obammy lied and lied and lied)
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To: TigerClaws

Another way to break America’s bank, cloward and Piven agenda, overwhelm the system into collapse


23 posted on 07/26/2014 3:38:37 AM PDT by ronnie raygun
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Each and every former slave alive today deserves reparations ....

It’s the least we can do....

Must be hell to be that old....


24 posted on 07/26/2014 3:50:05 AM PDT by Popman ("Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Popman
Each and every former slave alive today deserves reparations ....

I agree.

25 posted on 07/26/2014 3:51:45 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Bflr


26 posted on 07/26/2014 4:19:07 AM PDT by 4Liberty (Obama is O'Bryan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUoPNpa9Rrw)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Only two reasons required.
No one getting the money owned slaves and no one receiving the money was a slave.
This is a non issue.........


27 posted on 07/26/2014 4:34:27 AM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (I am an American Not a Republican or a Democrat.)
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To: SECURE AMERICA
Only two reasons required. No one getting the money owned slaves and no one receiving the money was a slave.

You missed typed. You meant:

Only two reasons required. No one paying the money owned slaves and no one receiving the money was a slave.

And you are right.

28 posted on 07/26/2014 4:51:18 AM PDT by samtheman
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Reparations are a hundred years too late.

As I was recently driving across the country, I was wondering how things would have been different if we had opened the west and given the slave s forty acres and a mule.


29 posted on 07/26/2014 4:54:38 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Reparations for slavery are a very bad idea on so many levels.


30 posted on 07/26/2014 5:02:03 AM PDT by windsorknot
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To: windsorknot

Specifically, who enslaved the blacks originally in Africa? It was not white slave traders! It was other blacks of different tribes that captured and sold their BROTHERS into slavery. So, it follows that we should seek reparations from the blacks in Africa? People are so pathetically stupid today and do not even want to know history.


31 posted on 07/26/2014 5:16:26 AM PDT by Machavelli (True God)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Because the first $5 trillion we’ve already spent has been a big waste of taxpayer money?


32 posted on 07/26/2014 5:20:02 AM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
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To: Vermont Lt

The slaves and their descendants have already received their reparations, much of which provided from men, women, children and families who were in no way involved in their slavery. I have read, though I can not cite, that the United States was the only country to go to all out war to free slaves.

330,000 WHITE UNION military knowingly went to their deaths to free the African American slaves during the Civil War, they FOLLOWED the directives and emancipation orders of their government, a government THEY ELECTED. I have never heard an establishment, professional, progressive/ African-American, or White Progressive ever ACKNOWLEDGE, much less “thank” these dead men for their sacrifices, nor recognize the 260,000 White Union military who were wounded and/or grievously disabled, nor the widows, nor the children, nor the families of the military who also suffered.
I BELIEVE OBAMA WOULD NOT TRAVEL TO GETTYSBURG TO COMMERATE THE 150 YEAR ANNIVERSARY BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE HIGHLIGHTED THE SACRFICES AND THE REASONS THE MEN FOUGHT AND DIED.


33 posted on 07/26/2014 5:20:18 AM PDT by BilLies ( it isn't the color of the skin, but culture that is embraced that degrades.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“I provided reparations and all I got was a Kenyan-American president who hates America and most Christians and Whites.”


34 posted on 07/26/2014 5:25:06 AM PDT by BilLies ( it isn't the color of the skin, but culture that is embraced that degrades.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
How do you make any of those determinations with reparations?

In a corrupt manner. Like the Pigford Farmers settlement. You give the money to anyone who can show he's a favored political client. /S

35 posted on 07/26/2014 5:31:49 AM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

None of the descendants of slaves would b alive if it were not for slavery. Somewhere along the line their ancestors would not have met or come together to procreate. Some would have not even lived to child-bearing age.
So, they actually owe their very lives to slavery.


36 posted on 07/26/2014 5:33:55 AM PDT by all the best
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To: Machavelli

We live in the “it’s all about me” times, spoken about in the Word.

“For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good,traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!”

2 Timothy 3:2-5


37 posted on 07/26/2014 5:52:17 AM PDT by mothball
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Some are also missing the funny part of this all. If everyone goes insane and this twisted program ever takes shape, how will it be administered? Even under the most optimistic reparations plan, no blacks would get any money directly from the gubmint. Plans are that the money would be overseen by Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and other similar annoying people. I wish I was making that up.


38 posted on 07/26/2014 5:54:25 AM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult (Liberals make unrealistic demands on reality and reality doesn't oblige them.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Reparations for slavery? Let’s start with Obama. His Arab ancestors were the slave sellers.


39 posted on 07/26/2014 6:15:55 AM PDT by abclily (every)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Reparations have been paid check the body count of the ones who freed them they are the ones who should pay reparations.


40 posted on 07/26/2014 7:12:15 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Reparations paid in full when 700,000 white boys slaughtered each other over whether blacks would be slaves or not.
About a million or more gave arms, legs and eyes for the same cause.


41 posted on 07/26/2014 8:03:47 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need more than seven rounds, Much more.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I want Great Britain to compensate me for messing with my Scottish ancestors 500 years back. $50,000 would work.


42 posted on 07/26/2014 8:18:25 AM PDT by lurk
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The only reparations due to Blacks are from the Democratic Party which has held them in virtual slavery since the 60’s.


43 posted on 07/26/2014 9:28:12 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose o f a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
: Just giving people money seldom helps to fix their problem.

The money soon ends up right back where it came from.

44 posted on 07/26/2014 9:29:34 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
This is the only aspect of the article I disagree with:

"2) Who would pay reparations? If John Smith gets drunk, runs a stop light, and hits the car of Susie Jones, we know who's at fault....How do you make any of those determinations with reparations?"

That one's easy. It's the Democrat Party, the party of slavers. Make them pay.

45 posted on 07/26/2014 9:33:43 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Qui me amat, amat et canem meum.)
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To: Beowulf9

There were thousands of blacks who were slave holders. There were also black slave breeders.


46 posted on 07/26/2014 9:33:50 AM PDT by ladyjane
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To: Vermont Lt; 2ndDivisionVet; TigerClaws
Vermont Lt: "I was wondering how things would have been different if we had opened the west and given the slave s forty acres and a mule."

By 1910 a million blacks lived on 15,000,000 acres of farmland they owned in Alabama, Mississippi, North & South Carolina alone.
That's an area of land well more than the size of New Jersey, Connecticut, Delaware & Rhodes Island combined.
It averages to well over "40 acres and a mule" for families of, say, four.

Also, US land prices were vastly lower in 1865 than today, even considering inflation.
So "40 acres and a mule" in today's values is equivalent to circa $100,000 per family of four.
Multiply $100,000 times say, 10 million black families, that's about a trillion dollars total.

Since the US has already paid vastly more than that in various "Great Society" programs, I'd say that whatever debt was incurred in 1865 has been long since "paid in full" -- no matter how you figure it.

47 posted on 07/28/2014 4:34:21 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK

It was more an academic question about how that might have changed the impact on our country in the intervening years.

I am not advocating it now, clearly.

Just one of those things I was thinking about earlier this summer as I drove through the vast expanses of the US Midwest and west. At the time, the property in some of the western territories was available. (We simply needed to steal it from the Indians first.)


48 posted on 07/28/2014 5:21:58 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
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To: Vermont Lt; 2ndDivisionVet; TigerClaws; Joe 6-pack; ladyjane
Vermont Lt: "Just one of those things I was thinking about earlier this summer as I drove through the vast expanses of the US Midwest and west.
At the time, the property in some of the western territories was available.
(We simply needed to steal it from the Indians first.)"

The 1862 Homestead Law:

420,000 square miles is the size of Texas and Montana combined, an average nearly 170 acres per settler.
Sounds like much more than "40 acres and a mule" to me.

49 posted on 07/30/2014 1:35:23 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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