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U.S. Military Chief Compares Putinís Ukraine Move to Stalinís Invasion of Poland
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/24/u-s-military-chief-compares-putin-s-ukraine-move-to-stalin-s-invasion-of-poland.html ^

Posted on 07/26/2014 2:00:50 PM PDT by free_life

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Martin Dempsey said Thursday that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s new use of Russian military force inside Ukraine harkens back to 1939 when Joseph Stalin led a Russian invasion of Poland, and Dempsey predicted Putin was far from finished.

The latest development represents a dangerous escalation of the crisis on the part of Putin, and the Russia-Ukraine crisis is now a global problem, he said.

“It does change the situation. You’ve got a Russian government that has made a conscious decision to use its military force inside another sovereign nation to achieve its objectives. It’s the first time since 1939 or so that that’s been the case,” Dempsey said. “They clearly are on a path to assert themselves differently not just in Eastern Europe, but Europe in the main, and towards the United States.”

Since 2008, the Russian military has increased its capability, proficiency, and the level of its activities, indicating Putin’s worldwide ambitions, Dempsey said. The strategy is Putin’s alone, he added, and said much of Russia’s military were probably reluctant participants in Putin’s war.

“This is very clearly Putin, the man himself, with a vision for Europe as he sees it, what he considers to be an effort to redress grievances that we burdened upon Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union and also to appeal to ethnic Russian enclaves across Eastern Europe,” he said. “He’s very aggressive about it, he’s got a playbook he’s been successful with two or three times, and he will continue.”

(Excerpt) Read more at thedailybeast.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
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Joseph Stalin used similar rhetoric and justifications when he invaded Poland in September 1939, only days after Adolf Hitler’s Nazi army invaded Poland from the other direction. Stalin and Hitler had signed a secret pact of non-aggression and proposed to carve up Europe between them, but Stalin said his goal was to protect ethnic Russians in his near abroad.

“The Soviet Government cannot regard with indifference the fact that the kindred Ukrainian and White Russian people, who live on Polish territory and who are at the mercy of fate, are now left defenseless,” read the note from the Soviet Foreign Ministry to the Polish Ambassador to Moscow on the day Stalin invaded.

“Putin may actually light a fire that he loses control over,” he said. “There’s a rising tide of nationalism in Europe right now that has been created in many ways by these Russian activities.”

"....new evidence that the Russians intend to deliver heavier and more powerful, multiple rocket launchers to the separatist forces in Ukraine, and have evidence that Russia is firing artillery from within Russia to attack Ukrainian military positions,” ....

...... Longer article worth reading at link.

1 posted on 07/26/2014 2:00:50 PM PDT by free_life
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To: free_life

Whoopsie. Now they’ll have to compare our response.


2 posted on 07/26/2014 2:02:12 PM PDT by stanne
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To: free_life
Putin comes from the same cloth: VOLGA TATAR descent.
From Google: Born despots of the various Tatar khanates of the early modern period. They are the remnants after the breakup of the Golden Horde, and its successor, the Great Horde.
3 posted on 07/26/2014 2:06:48 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: stanne

Ridiculous. The Ukraine, separate and as a part of Western Europe (and thus a threat to Russia), is hardly something Russia—under Putin or anybody else— will easily accept.

Some kind of joint association is almost inevitable; and of course now is the time for Russia to act, while Obama is playing golf.

But this hardly merits comparisons with Hitler, Stalin, the division of Poland, world war II, or the notion that Putin wants to march to Paris.


4 posted on 07/26/2014 2:08:34 PM PDT by CondorFlight (I)
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To: free_life

Lets all jump on board with The daily beast and the Obama flunkie Dempsey.

http://thelibertybeat.com/anti-propaganda-law-repealed-state-department-free-to-broadcast-directly-to-americans/


5 posted on 07/26/2014 2:10:26 PM PDT by dforest
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To: free_life

Stalin invaded Poland almost three weeks after the Germans did. He wanted to make sure most of the heavy lifting had been done. If anything this situation more resembles the Russo/Finnish War of 1939/40.


6 posted on 07/26/2014 2:10:28 PM PDT by jmacusa (Liberalism defined: When mom and dad go away for the weekend and the kids are in charge.)
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To: free_life

A major difference between Poland and The Ukraine mess is that the West has known since the nineteen fifties that any move by the West that would result in Russia losing political control over Crimea would have to overcome all of the Military power Russia could muster, and that this would not be in any way negotiable.

There was no surprise here.

Men who fought the cold war (myself included) pointed out during the EU/Ukrainian trade pact negotiations that Russia was going to counter that militarily. It didn’t take a rocket scientist or a prophet to see this coming. It also does not take one to understand that the Russians will not back down and that diplomacy in this case is mere embarrassing public masturbation.

The EU only has two choices. Give it up, or war. Even if they try to pull the US into this, diplomacy will not even slow the military response down.


7 posted on 07/26/2014 2:14:29 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: CondorFlight

So the Russian invasions of Georgia and the Crimea and eastern Ukraine didn’t happen under Putin?

The world heard excuses when the Nazis under Hitler and the Red Hoard under Stalin invaded Europe too. Remember what happened next? World war!


8 posted on 07/26/2014 2:16:27 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: free_life
What? Russia has tens of thousands of refugees who were bombed out of their homes by "their" government in Kiev. I'd think that Putin has a right, perhaps an obligation, to make their homeland safe for their return.

Just like the US would have the right (if we chose to do so) to make northern Mexico safe so the invaders into the US could return there. (Instead, Obama wants to get involved in eastern Ukraine.) Anyone who had the guts could make eastern Syria safe for Syrian refugees to return. The Iraqi Kurds are helping outside their borders, aren't they? etc

Isn't Israel going into Palestine pretty much the same situation?

Really, the DC crowd and the military analysts should SHUT UP about anything except how to secure OUR southern border.

9 posted on 07/26/2014 2:17:10 PM PDT by grania
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To: CondorFlight

Dempsey is silly? I wouldn’t doubt it


10 posted on 07/26/2014 2:20:16 PM PDT by stanne
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To: dforest

“Obama flunkie Dempsey”

If we’re making spurious comparisons to dead commies, Dempsey makes a pretty good slapstick Nikita Krushev toad to Obama’s mincing, lisping Stalin.


11 posted on 07/26/2014 2:27:00 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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Since the potential Russian naval base in Syria is iffy, then the Crimea port with its 50 year lease would have to be Russia’s sole operational point in the Black Sea/eastern Med. And an eastern Ukrainian strip connecting Russia to Crimea is necessary.


12 posted on 07/26/2014 2:34:39 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: grania

These people fled the war between Ukraine military and Russian military including Putin’s proxy army of Russian rebels fighting in eastern Ukraine.

So Putin invades Ukraine and starts a war and in your mind he has right to continue that invasion and war because people are fleeing the war Putin started, got ya!


13 posted on 07/26/2014 2:38:19 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: free_life
...government that has made a conscious decision to use its military force inside another sovereign nation to achieve its objectives. It’s the first time since 1939 or so that that’s been the case,” Dempsey said.

Actually, I think we've done this a few times, too.

14 posted on 07/26/2014 2:39:12 PM PDT by virgil (The evil that men do lives after them)
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To: MrEdd

The Ukrainians want out of Russia’s control and are paying the price for that freedom. EU was their only move.


15 posted on 07/26/2014 2:43:11 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: free_life

They fled to Russia for safety. They didn’t flee to Kiev for safety. Doesn’t that indicate they feel safer as refugees in Russia than they would under the protection of the Kiev government?


16 posted on 07/26/2014 2:45:20 PM PDT by grania
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To: MrEdd

The U.S. is a member of NATO, why do people keep ignoring that?


17 posted on 07/26/2014 2:48:10 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: CondorFlight
But this hardly merits comparisons with Hitler, Stalin, the division of Poland, world war II, or the notion that Putin wants to march to Paris.

By definition, it must, since both cases are an invasion of a soveriegn nation to force your will upon them, which is what Putin is doing.

Ridiculous. The Ukraine, separate and as a part of Western Europe (and thus a threat to Russia), is hardly something Russia—under Putin or anybody else— will easily accept.

Russia is one giant cesspool of murder and massive corruption. In fact, corruption is Russia's number one export. I am against trade of this sort.

18 posted on 07/26/2014 2:50:45 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: grania
They fled to Russia for safety. They didn’t flee to Kiev for safety. Doesn’t that indicate they feel safer as refugees in Russia than they would under the protection of the Kiev government?

First of all, that's not accurate. Many more have fled East Ukraine to the West due to the murderous Russkies. Secondly, the Russkies have been claiming that hundreds of thousands have fled to them for ages now, but refuse to let outside people confirm it.

19 posted on 07/26/2014 2:52:36 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: grania

Yes it does for the Russians.

1) Majority of people in eastern Ukraine want nothing to do with rebels or Putin and their war.

2) Rebels hold that territory and fleeing west was not an option unless you wanted a rebel bullet in the back. East to Russia is only semi-safe way to flee. A lot like Poles fleeing Nazis into Stalin’s frying pan of death. Declaring one’s self a loyal Russian is a necessary survival instinct in that region right now. We are seeing the non militants in areas Ukraine forces have retaken from rebels are not actually loyal to rebels or Russia. What else are old men, women and children do and say to stay alive when living in the midst of Psycho’s with AK-47’s?


20 posted on 07/26/2014 2:57:00 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: free_life

This officer didn’t study history too well. I would liken it more to Hitler entering Austria, where he already had a large population of sympathizers.


21 posted on 07/26/2014 2:58:26 PM PDT by Nachoman (libertyarmstx.com is now open!)
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To: free_life

Really?

What does he compare the pathetic occupant of the Oval Office to—Neville Chamberlain’s acquiescence to fascism, or Marshal Philippe Pétain who headed up Vichy France for the enemy?


22 posted on 07/26/2014 3:05:02 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: Nachoman

There are some of both in eastern Ukraine but the majority want nothing to do with Putin and his war. Ukraine is the original Russia ...Slavs are Slavs. Nationalism and language play a role in conflicts there but who butters their bread is the biggest factor. Then you have the psycho’s with AK’s and vodka.

Dempsey knows more about current events there than you or I do, I would think.


23 posted on 07/26/2014 3:09:39 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Maybe but he is not going to say is he unless he retires.


24 posted on 07/26/2014 3:11:30 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: free_life

Well, when Russia invaded Poland in 1939 neither France nor England declared war on Russia so I guess we’re off the hook...


25 posted on 07/26/2014 3:11:34 PM PDT by Vesparado (The American people know what they want and they deserve to get it good and hard --- HL Mencken)
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To: ansel12
"The U.S. is a member of NATO"

And we should be thankful that the attempt by George Bush and the NeoCons to get Ukraine and Georgia admitted to NATO failed.

26 posted on 07/26/2014 3:18:15 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: free_life

NATO has been ripping apart countries left and right for the last 20 years. There’s no surprise Putin is wary and taking precautions.


27 posted on 07/26/2014 3:33:43 PM PDT by CMB_polarization
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To: Ben Ficklin

Why, would that make it more difficult for you guys to reassemble the empire that NATO was formed to protect the world from?


28 posted on 07/26/2014 3:39:25 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: CMB_polarization

NATO was formed to protect us from Putin and his blood thirsty nation.


29 posted on 07/26/2014 3:42:07 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: ansel12

In what way is that relevant as to whether or not it is possible to pry Crimea away from Russia without winning a total war.

People also keep ignoring other incidentals which do not in any way mitigate the problem at hand.

Any lives lost in posturing if the west is not willing to to the mat against Russia (atomic weapons, chemicals, biological agents, the whole nine yards) are being cynically thrown away by grandstanding idiots.

There are zero people suggesting that the west go in there militarily who are not either advocating World War Three - the Nuclear Holocaust edition or else are grandstanding idiots. There is no third catagory. We know exactly where the Russians will go on this, their doctrine has been unmovable for six decades. No room for any surprises.


30 posted on 07/26/2014 3:50:19 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: CMB_polarization

NATO may be the lesser of two evils when it comes to NATO and Russia but the gulf of evil between the two is huge...vast...gigantic! Yea I will not side with bloody Russia and it’s expansionism.


31 posted on 07/26/2014 3:54:15 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: MrEdd

What a silly post, now any resistance to conquest that Russia runs into, now that their empire and vast military is gone and their allies have joined NATO, will result in Russia defeating the world in WWIII?

If we don’t nip this little tyrant in the bud and let Russia know that they need to forget empire and concentrate on becoming a successful country, your fantasy will come to pass eventually.


32 posted on 07/26/2014 3:55:25 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: free_life
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Martin Dempsey said Thursday that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s new use of Russian military force inside Ukraine harkens back to 1939 when Joseph Stalin led a Russian invasion of Poland,

Yep, and any day now teams of forensics experts will be uncovering mass graves of thousands of murdered Ukrainian military officers, police officers, and intellectuals, harking back to the Soviet's massacres at the Katyn Forest. RT and sundry putinistas will blame it on fascists from Kiev.


33 posted on 07/26/2014 3:55:44 PM PDT by caveat emptor (!)
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To: free_life

Was Russia considered evil before the communist revolution? They have put away their hatred of Christ and seem to stand for traditional values. I have to consider this a miracle.


34 posted on 07/26/2014 4:11:03 PM PDT by CMB_polarization
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To: CMB_polarization

NATO seems to have become a godless rabble of progressive socialists.


35 posted on 07/26/2014 4:12:16 PM PDT by CMB_polarization
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To: Ben Ficklin

uh, think again

It appears the RINOs found a way in May

Also interesting that all of this is unfolding after this.

Obama be usin’ this.

https://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/2277


36 posted on 07/26/2014 4:18:14 PM PDT by dforest
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To: ansel12

Crimea has been under their control for a very long time.

If you are really big on jingoism over substance I guess you can view keeping those Black Sea ports they have had since before my grandparents were born as “Conquest. “ but that is entirely irrelevant as to what they will do to keep them. Which happens to be “whatever it takes” with nothing off the table.

Russia dissarmed?

Ooh wait. They went into Georgia and slaughtered everything between them and the portion of their NBC arsenal stationed there to get it back into Russia. Your personal definition of “dissarmed” is significantly different than the definition other people use.

Nip Putin in the bud? His replacement would be a carbon copy. Personalities are irrelevant because Russia only puts in leaders with the same cookie cutter military doctrine.


37 posted on 07/26/2014 4:18:25 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: free_life

Actually, it was not. As long as Ukraine did not ally with The EU they served as a buffer, which was more convenient for Russia than controlling them outright.

Ukraine might have been internally corrupt before they moved towards the EU, but they were free.

The EU made agreements as to the nuetral status of former Soviet vassals at the time of the Soviet break up, but they since Russia hadn’t acted against previously absorbed territories the Eurocrats thought this would be the same. A colossal blunder which is kind of predictable since they don’t have a serious integral military command to advise them and they largely rely upon the US.


38 posted on 07/26/2014 4:27:44 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: MrEdd

I wonder about posters like you, pretending for instance that you are responding to a post claiming that Russia was disarmed, no wonder you can pretend that the West and Finland and Sweden are all imagining that Russia is conquering anyone and striving to return to being a threat to everyone.


39 posted on 07/26/2014 4:31:45 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: CMB_polarization

Sad you and others are buying that. Putin stands against any opposition and you should do some research on what the evangelical church is enduring in Russia.


40 posted on 07/26/2014 5:40:44 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: dforest
"It appears the RINOs found a way in May"

I wouldn't call them Rinos, I'd call them NeoCons and Realists

That doesn't have anything to do with NATO.

But the case is being built. In this article, Gen Dempsey is talking the talk. In the article prior to this one Gen Jones is talking the talk.

As far as sanctions go, the ultimate would be to sanction the Exxon-Rosneft oil deal, but I'm not sure the GOP wants to do that. Otherwise, we have to leave it up to Europe.

41 posted on 07/26/2014 5:43:00 PM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: MrEdd
I would say Ukraine is more free today as they purge their halls of power of Russian cronies and agents.

I seem to remember an agreement Russia made when Ukraine gave up it's nukes. Agreements with Russia are not worth приземистый (prizemistyy).

How far will Putin go, more Ukraine is a certainty....all of Ukraine is in Putin's sights....Poland has some good sea ports too.

At what point do we stand and make the cost to great to Russians again?

42 posted on 07/26/2014 5:59:12 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: dforest

Never thought i would say this...but Dempsey is an Obamabot USA traitor!!! End of story!!! Putin, bad boy dictator he is....is eating our and Obama’s lunch, dinner and breakfast!!! Dempsey is just an Obamabot butt kisser!!! Ashamed he wears the uniform of a USA military man!!! Sickening....these Obama military apologists!!!


43 posted on 07/26/2014 6:44:44 PM PDT by JLAGRAYFOX ( My only objective is to defeat and destroy Obama & his Democrat Party, politically!!!.)
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To: Ben Ficklin
And we should be thankful that the attempt by George Bush and the NeoCons to get Ukraine and Georgia admitted to NATO failed.

I still remember photographs from the Russian invasion of Georgia, which followed generally the same playbook as what Putin tried with Ukraine. FSB agents in South Ossetia were shooting rockets at Georgian cities for a long time, until finally the Georgians couldn't take it anymore. The Russkies then invaded. The aftermath was, lots of dead Georgian civilians, giant holes in people's heads, bodies cut in half and scattered around. I remember these photographs. I even saw a video of Russkies burning an American flag and saying "America we come for you next!".

This is what you know-nothings ultimately support.

44 posted on 07/27/2014 9:04:04 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: stanne

I was watching the History channel yesterday afternoon. The parallels are amazing actually. Except Putin doesn’t have a Hitler...but watch to see him ally with al-Bakr.


45 posted on 07/27/2014 9:07:42 AM PDT by EBH (And the head wound was healed, and Gog became man.)
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To: free_life

From what I see and understand the Christian church is being blessed in Russia. There are cases where cults are suspect, but following Christ is actually encouraged.


46 posted on 07/27/2014 9:10:38 AM PDT by CMB_polarization
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

This is what arrogant people like you support. probably also the reason you talk to good people the way you do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfRtbIQ1kTw


47 posted on 07/27/2014 9:10:56 AM PDT by dforest
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To: dforest
This is what arrogant people like you support. probably also the reason you talk to good people the way you do.

Paulbots and Putinistas are not good people. They are traitors, useful idiots, and should be purged from the party.

48 posted on 07/27/2014 9:24:58 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: CMB_polarization
From what I see and understand the Christian church is being blessed in Russia. There are cases where cults are suspect, but following Christ is actually encouraged.

You don't know what you are talking about. The Russkies aren't kicking out cults. They are persecuting Protestants and Catholics.

49 posted on 07/27/2014 9:26:15 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Being purged from your communist party is no big deal.

Did you know that many are not registered repubeocrats?

I noticed what side you are on.


50 posted on 07/27/2014 9:28:50 AM PDT by dforest
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