Skip to comments.As number of law school grads rises in Florida, demand drops
Posted on 07/27/2014 4:04:01 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
Ask Jason Fraser how many jobs he applied for after graduating from a St. Petersburg law school last year and this is what he says:
Maybe 10 or 20 when it was some place I wanted to work. Maybe 50 when I started getting desperate.
After searching as far afield as Ocala and Miami, Fraser finally landed a public defenders post in Pasco County in June. But his months of job-hunting raises another question, one that nags at many in the legal profession:
Does Florida have too many lawyers?
Since 2000, the number of licensed attorneys has swollen from 60,900 to 96,511. In the same period, five new law schools have opened, cranking out even more lawyers to join those bemoaning the diminished rewards of their chosen career.
Now it seems you work harder to make half of what you did in 1998, said Angela Wright, a Tampa criminal defense lawyer. The economy is a reason but also the fact there are a whole lot more attorneys.........
(Excerpt) Read more at miamiherald.com ...
Too many lawyers. That is why I chose to not go to law school.
All you see on daytime TV are ads from lawyers about bankruptcies, SSDI applications, lawsuits on drug or medical device use, accidents with trucks, assaults in apartment complexes, workers compensation claims, auto accident claims - you name it. Filled to the gills with lawyers.
Supply & demand works? Who knew?
I’ve seen this first hand with a relative - not in Florida, but in Ohio. She finally got a job with an natural gas energy company where she verifies the ownership of the leased land. It’s contract work, but she makes enough to live and make a dent in the loans. Most importantly, it’s experience that should lead to something more long term.
A couple of years ago, I saw a blurb about the UCal system adding yet another law school, when the economics of the legal profession were already consolidating.
The "education" system has its own reality.
now lets make it happen with doctors
The big firms outsource the grunt work to India.
“Does Florida have too many lawyers?”
Yes and so does the rest of the country. Like the phone
companies caller ID block, block unblock and block unblock
block. The lawyers in this country are the worlds worst at
creating a demand and filling it. There are no telling how
many laws out there that were passed and put into place just
to employ lawyers. The old saying “a man who represents
himself has a fool for a client” the laws are so ambiguous and
the courts so bureaucratic that an innocent man can
get convicted simply for not having the proper paperwork
to present evidence in his defense.
Also I think that being a lawyer and a politician is a
conflict of interest. What does a lawyer know about energy,
agriculture, education and health when all they are taught
is bureaucratic navigation. Not to mention tort.
There are a lot of problems in this country that are
crated by the saturation of the field. The more lawyers
the more laws. They are going to have to do something
to continue getting those high fees. Maybe they will do
like they did with Obamacare, make it a mandate to
keep a lawyer on retainer.
“Supply & demand works? Who knew?”
Especially when you get to create the demand and fill it.
Sounds like Obama wants to hire truckloads of immigration lawyers. Just what we need.
I hadn’t connected the two, but for him it would be killing two birds with one stone. Hire worthless grads, entrench illegals in our legal system.
According to NCEES, there are only about 22,000 Professional Engineers in Florida, with an additional 15,000 who live out of state. When your lawyers greatly outnumber the engineers, is this a good thing or a bad thing?
The Current FReepathon Pays For The Current Quarters Expenses?
Comes the dawn of the minimum wage lawyer. Sometimes success does not bring good fortune.
Florida has to many blood sucking bottom feeders, they advertise constantly on TV around here wanting to sue anyone for anything. No wonder nobody wants to accept responsibly any more, jump on the free money bandwagon sue someone.
Something I've been saying for years. We are in bad need of loser pays and refunds and penalties for suits that later turn out baseless.
Many secretarial positions were eliminated by word processing programs and such (across the spectrum of industries). My boss has a secretary, and she is always scrambling to find work (doing filing or anything at all) in other departments because the reality is that at best it would be a part-time position. My predecessor had a secretary, and when she left I didn’t replace her - I do it myself.
It’s a versatile degree nonetheless. She should do well.
A small town had one lawyer with nothing to do.
Then another lawyer moved in and they were both very busy.
In Florida, there’s an inch of doctors listed in the Yellow Pages, and two inches of malpractice lawyers.
I guess the state has reached the saturation point with lawyers, at least.
Maybe the State can cut back on the number of Laws too.
When I started out as a lawyer, before word processing and the Internet, I could not have done this without at least a secretary, a permanent office and an expensive hard-copy law library. Now, I can compete with the big boys by working for the clients who got to know me during my big-firm days, and offering those clients a much-reduced hourly rate. I also don't have to share my fees with a group of high-level partners who take 1/3 for themselves and 1/3 for the firm's expensive overhead, leaving me with 1/3 of the money I busted my butt to earn.
Really, in this day, the only people who bother to believe the canard about a J.D. being a “versatile degree” are 1) those selling legal educations and 2) those gullible enough to become their prospective marks. You may want to check out the law school scamblogs for further detail.
Does a bear.......
A lot of the grunt work that associates used to do can now be offshored.
Can’t we close all law schools for 20 years and prohibit attorneys from holding public office?
Meanwhile they're so stacked with debt the search become hopeless. The smart ones will
take their work ethic to other areas and not really seek to become a Lawyer. Law enforcement
will hire them but Florida has recently cut back 250 officers in Miami, not sure about elsewhere.
In 2011 there were about 50k graduates from Law school, 2014 may be more.
Almost as useless as Liberal Arts.
I would trade my cell phone, laptop, iPad and desktop for a secretary pool in in miniskirts. I would even buy all of them fancy IBM Selectric typewriters to use.
You need the right amount of balance with doctors- too many and they lose their skills, especially with surgeons. Not enough patients to keep up the skill set.Having too many doctors is not a good thing. Rethink your statement.
In Florida, they need throngs of Government-Medical Industrial Complex Zombies to act as front line death panel facilitators. The goal is to extract all the finances of the retirees in the nursing homes. No English Speaking skills required, however applicants with experience sexing baby chicks and drowning litters of kittens in burlap feedsacks will be given preference. Applicants will be required to demostrate proficency in maximizing pai and humiliation using catheters, and syringes.
I don't know how true it is, but I read somewhere that the AMA uses its influence to limit the number of med schools. If that's so, it's a sin because Obamacare will explode the demand for doctors.
yes the AMA “the doctors union” deliberately keeps the number of seats in medical schools very low causing an artificial shortage with the accompanying high prices. The issue is not creating more surgeons which is a high skilled subset as I understand the shortage is primary care doctors. I would like to see each state establish 2 new medical schools enrolling students right out of high school and cranking out 100 call them PD’s for practical doctors each in five years. Doctors would be plentiful prices would come under control. Think of it most of us already are being seen by a similarly educated person in PA’s or ARNP. This would not interfere much with the current food chain in the medical industry and give average people much easier access to basic care.
Your point is the relative wasted her time earning the degree?
PAs and ARNPs are supervised by MDs generally. Even if you don’t see the MD, they are held liable for the noctors ( not doctors) care. They sign off the charts after the noctors have seen the patient.. So, you cannot increase noctors without increasing the number of physicians, because they will not take on a huge noctor load due to liability and workload issues. Also, the number of seats in medical schools are low because it is very expensive and labor intensive to train a doctor. That is why they come out of medical school with huge debt. If you increase the providers too much, their exposure to different disease processes are very limited. I want to see a doctor who has seen it all, so he/she can better diagnose me. I think PAs and ARNPs are fine for very minor issues, but they dont get much training to be independent right out of school, and they rely on MDs to teach them. I see this everyday. They really dont know all that much without a lot of MD help.
I doubt that ratio has diminished in the intervening years.
The word is getting out that finding a law career is much harder than it used to be and much less lucrative.
It’s going to take a couple of years to find a job unless you graduated in the top 10% of your class in a 1st or 2nd tier school of law.
Paying on $150,000-$200,000 in school loans can be extremely demoralizing and depressing when you send out resume after resume and don’t even get a call for an interview.
If I know of anyone who is considering going to law school, I am going to do my darndest to convince them not to. The only exception to that would be someone who has a decent paying day job and goes to law school part time. That’s hard to do, but not as hard as facing daunting loans with no job prospects at all.
Well, I’m one that mentioned to another here the degree was versatile without this specific quality being mentioned to me beforehand. And since I’m not trying promote the high cost of education, I must conclude you’re probably mistaken in your supposition — at least in the context of my post you criticized. Furthermore, the type of degree was never specified despite your restriction to J.D. Where was the relative’s graduate-level costs of education stated — a vital factor to your complaint?
I gather you’re not familiar with the value of business professionals educated in law, especially in the areas of contract, health, and patent law.
Your point concerns the cost of the degree, not the opportunity provided by it.