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Our duty is to stand firm in the face of Russian aggression
theglobeandmail.com ^ | July 25, 2014 | Stephen Harper

Posted on 07/28/2014 12:10:22 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe

The world is saddened and rightfully outraged by images of the charred remnants of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17, and by the loss of almost 300 people from 11 countries, strewn across fields in eastern Ukraine. While the grim work of identifying victims’ remains and tracking down the perpetrators of this appalling crime is just beginning, the world can be certain of one thing: There can be no weakening of our resolve to punish the Putin regime for threatening the peace and security of eastern and central Europe.

Although we may refer to militants in eastern Ukraine as “pro-Russian separatists,” we are not confused by who, and what, they really are: an extension of the Russian state. They derive their material, political and logistical support from the Putin regime, and their criminal aggression and recklessness reflect the values of their Russian benefactors. Some have suggested that these agents of the Putin regime may have shot the plane down by accident. We do not, and may never, know. But accident or no accident, the blood is on the hands of the men who took such a risk and of the government that encouraged them to do so. Even if they did not intend to kill hundreds of innocent civilians, there is no denying their intent to continue waging a war on behalf of a regime that remains in violation of international law for its illegal occupation of Crimea.

Russia’s aggressive militarism and expansionism are a threat to more than just Ukraine; they are a threat to Europe, to the rule of law and to the values that bind Western nations.

(Excerpt) Read more at theglobeandmail.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: canada

1 posted on 07/28/2014 12:10:23 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

So, why are the PTB trying to gin up a war?


2 posted on 07/28/2014 12:11:23 PM PDT by FReepaholic (Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Our duty is to stand firm in the face of Russian aggression

Be morally indignant.

Try economic sanctions.

Make the Russians unpopular or uncool.

But without the ability to project force the protests are in vain.

One of the most pathetic, fuzzy logic beliefs of the modern age is that "violence never solved anything."

In truth, order may only be provided by force. Its just a question of who controls that force.

3 posted on 07/28/2014 12:14:59 PM PDT by LucianOfSamasota (Tanstaafl - its not just for breakfast anymore...)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Weak. Not as weak as Obama but weak just the same.


4 posted on 07/28/2014 12:17:44 PM PDT by keat
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Too bad our President doesn’t speak so forthrightly.


5 posted on 07/28/2014 12:19:12 PM PDT by buridan
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Our primary duty is to stand firm against Washington DC aggression. They trample on the United States Constitution, and flagrantly refuse to defend our borders.


6 posted on 07/28/2014 12:20:20 PM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: El Cid

They also refuse to confront our enemies around the world.


7 posted on 07/28/2014 12:23:36 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Stephen Harper is the Prime Minister of Canada

So send in your troops cowboy.


8 posted on 07/28/2014 12:24:37 PM PDT by McGruff (If you repeat a lie enough times the uniformed will accept it as the truth.)
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9 posted on 07/28/2014 12:25:49 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Where is the EU? It is their fight, are we supposed to save their sorry butts yet again?

How about they raise an Army and put a stop to all this “aggression”. We will be more than happy to SELL them whatever they need to fight their war.


10 posted on 07/28/2014 12:27:26 PM PDT by wrench
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To: Tailgunner Joe
They also refuse to confront our enemies around the world.

No argument from me that they are just generally worthless and villainous scum.

11 posted on 07/28/2014 12:31:20 PM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
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To: wrench

Our alliances primarily exist so the EU and others can provoke wars that the USA has to fight. Their contribution is almost 100% political (they get a say in everything) and they only provide a token amount of troops that lets them have a voice.

The USA now fights, and they provoke, posture, and create enemies. NO matter how you slice it this entire Ukraine thing was the EU pushing east and making economic move that were good for them. NO reason at all the USA should be involved whatsoever on WWII eastern front battlefields where Nazis fought soviets. This is nuts.

Honestly, I think our side missed the cold war for reasons of free flowing money, and political power, and we have worked morning noon and night to rekindle it. We finally succeeded. And now we stamp around screeching about a new cold war.


12 posted on 07/28/2014 12:37:08 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

The U.N. said in its report that rebel groups continue to “abduct, detain, torture and execute people kept as hostages in order to intimidate” the population in the east. It said rule of law had collapsed in the rebel-held areas and that 812 people had been abducted in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions since mid-April.

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/07/28/spokesman-mh17-punctured-by-shrapnel/20937758/


13 posted on 07/28/2014 12:37:29 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: wrench

Do you mean NATO?


14 posted on 07/28/2014 12:37:43 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: Uncle Chip

Suddenly, we trust the statements of the UN again. Obama and the EU leadership goals are trustworthy and worthy of us to champion. “Conservatism” sure has become interesting lately.


15 posted on 07/28/2014 12:40:03 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: McGruff

Canada is a NATO nation, as is the United States, and just about all of Russia’s allies from the Warsaw pact that Reagan destroyed.


16 posted on 07/28/2014 12:40:41 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: DesertRhino

Only if you have myopia. Can you separate what you feel about Obama and how you feel about the rest of the world? Don’t think so.


17 posted on 07/28/2014 12:43:06 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: DesertRhino

So are you saying that rebel groups aren’t doing this???

The UN isn’t the only one reporting this, but the fact that they do means that is clearly obvious — even to them.


18 posted on 07/28/2014 12:44:19 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Tailgunner Joe

What binding values Western nations have in Obama?

That is the joker for Russia in this.

It is obvious Russia is doing as it pleases because of Obama but no one in the Pentagon or political circles dare state we have a manshurian foreign traitor in power.


19 posted on 07/28/2014 12:44:58 PM PDT by lavaroise (A well regulated gun being necessary to the state, the rights of the militia shall not be infringed)
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To: ansel12

Well if Russia attacks Canada then I say we stand by our commitments. Ukraine wanted to be part of the EU. Let the EU come to their defense.


20 posted on 07/28/2014 12:48:51 PM PDT by McGruff (If you repeat a lie enough times the uniformed will accept it as the truth.)
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To: ansel12

NATO? no. This is a EU problem. European security is the reason for the formation of the EU, except they keep wanting the US via NATO to do their dirty work for them.


21 posted on 07/28/2014 12:49:03 PM PDT by wrench
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To: McGruff

Is that what you think NATO is, a defensive, anti-Russia military alliance, created as a necessity, to prevent Russia from attacking Canada?


22 posted on 07/28/2014 12:59:17 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: wrench
European security is the reason for the formation of the EU, except they keep wanting the US via NATO to do their dirty work for them.

You think the EU is a military force? What do you think NATO was founded for, and is?

23 posted on 07/28/2014 1:06:09 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: wrench

I always noticed since Obama that when they first announce troops dying in Afghanistan, they always make the announcement that NATO troops died. Then a short time later you find out that almost all were US troops.

If it were Bush, you would hear they were US troops from the get go.


24 posted on 07/28/2014 1:10:15 PM PDT by dforest
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To: ansel12

No, the EU is an effort by the European members to marginalize US economic power. NATO is obsolete these days and is a one sided , as far as benefits, european entity.

If EU members feel threatened by another sovern state, THEY need to form their own fighting force, fund it, field it , and command it.


25 posted on 07/28/2014 1:13:47 PM PDT by wrench
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To: dforest

If you examine any “NATO” operation it is always majority US personnel, equipment, and funding.


26 posted on 07/28/2014 1:15:51 PM PDT by wrench
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To: ansel12
Is that what you think NATO is, a defensive, anti-Russia military alliance, created as a necessity, to prevent Russia from attacking Canada?

If Canada is a member of NATO then yes.

So you say if Russia attacks Canada NATO is going to tell them you are on your own?

27 posted on 07/28/2014 1:16:56 PM PDT by McGruff (If you repeat a lie enough times the uniformed will accept it as the truth.)
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To: wrench

NATO is obviously relevant today, as Russia is on the move and non NATO nations are looking to join the defense alliance for protection and unity from Russian conquest.


28 posted on 07/28/2014 1:25:35 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: McGruff

NATO was formed to protect all NATO nations from Russia, including the United States and Britain.


29 posted on 07/28/2014 1:26:56 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: ansel12

A European alliance is needed to provide security for Europe (as in a EU security alliance). They need to join hands and not expect others to keep fighting and funding their security.


30 posted on 07/28/2014 1:37:25 PM PDT by wrench
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To: wrench

The free world has a European based alliance against Europe threatening Russia, it is called NATO.

Due to Russia’s reemerging as a threat of empire building and conquest, NATO is tightening up again and looking to possibly expand as more nations come to fear Putin.

We can’t let the new American left and fringe elements, and Russia, undo what so many of us here served for and that we finally gained under Reagan.


31 posted on 07/28/2014 1:45:17 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: ansel12

Russia was never a threat, it was the USSR. BTW, the USSR no longer exists, Russia is but a shadow of what the USSR was.

These are regional squabbles among neighbors.


32 posted on 07/28/2014 1:51:25 PM PDT by wrench
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To: wrench

Russia is always the threat, and they were the USSR, one of the Russian empires that we refer to when we speak of them starting up empire building again.

This isn’t a “regional squabble among neighbors”, this is about Russia’s threat to the world, history didn’t end in 1991.

Don’t undo Reagan’s work, by supporting Russia.


33 posted on 07/28/2014 2:15:00 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Great article by Prime Minister Harper! Proud to have him as a neighbor!


34 posted on 07/28/2014 2:32:16 PM PDT by familyop ("Dry land is not just our destination, it is our destiny!" - -Deacon character, "Waterworld")
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To: wrench

Soviet doctrine still guides Russian actions and military planning.


35 posted on 07/28/2014 2:34:36 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: wrench
Some facts about Russia's interesting military allies.

Collective Security Treaty Organization
Wikipedia

Member states[edit]

Current members
Armenia (2002)
Belarus (2002)
Kazakhstan (2002)
Kyrgyzstan (2002)
Russia (2002)
Tajikistan (2002)

Observers
Afghanistan (2013)
Serbia (2013)

Possible candidates
Iran

Former members
Azerbaijan (joined 1994, withdrew 1999)
Georgia (joined 1994, withdrew 1999)
Uzbekistan (joined 1994, withdrew 2012)

Russia has military friends in its Collective Security Treaty Organisation (CSTO: members listed below).

All of the following excerpts are from the CIA World Factbook (as accessed on 4MAY14).

Russia
Religions:
Russian Orthodox 15-20%, Muslim 10-15%, other Christian 2% (2006 est.) note: estimates are of practicing worshipers; Russia has large populations of non-practicing believers and non-believers, a legacy of over seven decades of Soviet rule

Kazakhstan
Religions:
Muslim 70.2%, Christian 26.2% (Russian Orthodox 23.9%, other Christian 2.3%), Buddhist 0.1%, other 0.2%, atheist 2.8%, unspecified 0.5% (2009 Census)

Kyrgyzstan
Religions:
Muslim 75%, Russian Orthodox 20%, other 5%

Tajikistan
Religions:
Sunni Muslim 85%, Shia Muslim 5%, other 10% (2003 est.)


Belarus
Government restrictions on freedom of speech and the press, peaceful assembly, and religion remain in place.
Religions:
Eastern Orthodox 80%, other (including Roman Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, and Muslim) 20% (1997 est.)

Armenia
Religions:
Armenian Apostolic 92.6%, Evangelical 1%, other 2.4%, none 1.1%, unspecified 2.9% (2011 est.)


36 posted on 07/28/2014 2:36:19 PM PDT by familyop ("Dry land is not just our destination, it is our destiny!" - -Deacon character, "Waterworld")
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To: ansel12

I am not supporting Russia. I am for the EU fighting their own fights. Just like Charles Millon, (former French defense minister) said in a recent interview. Basically :

“An inner circle of European countries, excluding the UK, and departure from Nato’s military command, is required if Europe is to create a Common Security and Defense Policy.”

Look it uo and read the whole text of his position.


37 posted on 07/28/2014 2:44:42 PM PDT by wrench
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To: ansel12
NATO was formed to protect all NATO nations from Russia, including the United States and Britain.

I don't disagree. But one could ask why NATO gets involved in things like overthrowing in Gaddafi in Libya.

38 posted on 07/28/2014 2:48:52 PM PDT by McGruff (If you repeat a lie enough times the uniformed will accept it as the truth.)
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To: wrench

I want to stop Russia dead in it’s tracks and prevent them becoming a threat to mankind again, I want a safe and stable Europe, not a conquered Europe turned against us, like it was until just recently.

Russia is an enemy to freedom and us.


39 posted on 07/28/2014 2:56:08 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: ansel12

My Grandfather felt that strongly about Germany. He went to the French Embassy in DC to help, and joined the French Army in 1915.

Nothing stopping you if you feel that strongly about Russia. Ukraine also has an embassy in DC.

A man has to follow his heart.


40 posted on 07/28/2014 3:00:51 PM PDT by wrench
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To: Tailgunner Joe
There were two, not one NATO exercises going on September 17 2014 in Ukraine theater:

Rapid Trident 2014

Sea Breeze 2014 - a massive drill off the coast of Crimea: electronic warfare, data collection from a spy satellite, and ‘monitoring’ of commercial aircraft traffic.

Other NATO leaders are smart and keep low profile. Harper is yapping like an open barn door.

41 posted on 07/28/2014 3:03:26 PM PDT by DTA
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To: wrench

Russia isn’t Germany, Russia was more monstrous before Germany, then allied with Germany, and then came out of WWII as the enemy of the world, and while suffering a collapse in 1991, is starting to regain it’s footing and seeking it’s eternal goals.

Germany and Poland and France and Japan are our allies, Russia is still a threat and hostile, and on the move.


42 posted on 07/28/2014 3:34:17 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: wrench

By the way, if that was a dig at opposing you guys and enlisting to prove it, I already served in NATO under President Reagan, generations of Americans have served in our defensive alliance against Russia, and many of our WWII fathers before us had opinions on Russia and the future threat.

If you want to serve Putin and empire, then go enlist for him or get some mercenary work fighting for him in Ukraine.


43 posted on 07/28/2014 3:49:36 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: ansel12

Sorry dude, I served under Nixon. Same song, different verse.

I am happy to let the EU handle it this time around, you are the one that said you could not sit by and watch it happen. Sign up and go if your convictions are that strong. My Granddad drove a French Ambulance. What will you do?


44 posted on 07/28/2014 5:48:02 PM PDT by wrench
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To: wrench

I am happy to encourage to NATO find the leadership to help it stand up to the threat they were founded to protect us from.

You like Russia, join them, they are accepting mercenaries, so your age shouldn’t be a liability, and clearly your loyalties won’t be, I already did my time for Nixon, Reagan, and NATO.


45 posted on 07/28/2014 5:58:54 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: ansel12

Remind us all again exactly which NATO country is being attacked?


46 posted on 07/28/2014 6:01:09 PM PDT by wrench
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To: wrench

Russia needs to be stood up to, before they become the threat that we all formed NATO to defend against.


47 posted on 07/28/2014 6:07:20 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: ansel12

So, you are advocating we go to war because, well just because.

Sounds like a plan /s


48 posted on 07/28/2014 6:09:10 PM PDT by wrench
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To: wrench

There you go again.

Wanting to surrender to Putin and convince us that we surrender to his goals NOW, or it means WWIII, and Russia taking on the 28 nations of NATO, including the United States, is that really what you think Putin wants right now, for all this to be decided in a war today?

In reality, if we continue as we are doing, then some day the WWIII that Reagan prevented, will be back in place again.


49 posted on 07/28/2014 6:34:10 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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