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Pediatricians Have the Right to Ask About Guns
The Daily Beast ^ | 7/30/14 | Russell Saunders

Posted on 07/30/2014 12:46:11 PM PDT by Q-ManRN

As a pediatrician, I have one, straightforward professional obligation: to safeguard and support the health and wellbeing of my patients. In my case, those patients are children, but you could change the age range of the people coming into the office and apply that statement to any medical provider.

Asking about guns in the house is no exception. When I ask parents if there are firearms in the home, and if so how they are secured, it is for the sole purpose of keeping their children safe.

Physicians in Florida are being threatened with a law that, if enacted, will seriously hamper their ability to do their jobs. The Firearms Owners' Privacy Act, passed in 2011, would subject medical providers to fines and a potential loss of licensure for asking patients about gun ownership or recording that information in the medical record if it is not “relevant to the patient's medical care or safety.”

Gun advocacy groups such as the National Rifle Association have long opposed the AAP’s efforts to strengthen gun laws. But the Florida law has no effect on gun ownership or access. Its insidious reach enters into medical offices and chokes off the free-speech rights of the people trying to work there.

As much as the NRA and its ilk want to deny it, having a gun in the home is a risk factor for serious injury or death. Acknowledging that fact is not the same thing as taking the gun away. The Florida law seeks to “protect” gun owners from even having to be informed about truths they’d prefer to ignore, and seeks to cast medical providers in an unflattering light for having the temerity to question them.

(Excerpt) Read more at thedailybeast.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; florida; guncontrol; pediatrician; secondamendment
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I am a Registered Nurse and therefore I read the statements above from the perspective of a licensed health professional. Like any adult, I was once a child and like many children I had an excellent pediatrician. My pediatrician never asked me or my family about firearms. This was not because my pediatrician was negligent or uncaring.

We went to him to discuss our medical concerns and then he could identify safety issues that were relevant to those concerns. There were an immense number of potential safety issues that we never discussed. For example, getting hit by a train even though there were train tracks near our house. My pediatrician would have known that that job was the responsibility of my parents.

Responsible parents that own firearms are aware that accidents can happen with a firearm just like any number of dangerous objects in their home. They do not need a physician to educate them about that fact. There are already a wealth of resources and options readily available to those parents. And criminals are not going to discuss storing their illegal firearms used in crimes with doctors.

My pediatrician never asked us about firearms because he left his political views at home where they belonged. The current debate over the ownership and use of firearms is taking place in legislatures and courts around our nation. That is where that debate belongs, not in our doctors' offices. Professional speech for healthcare workers is properly limited in order to ensure that they do not interject their personal political desires into their professional relationships.

Dr. Saunders exemplifies why these limits are necessary with political statements like "As much as the NRA and its ilk want to deny it, having a gun in the home is a risk factor for serious injury or death." or "By upholding this disgraceful law, the 11th Circuit Court has demonstrated allegiance to an ideology that favors the Second Amendment..." Do your patients a favor doc and keep your political ideology out of your professional practice.

1 posted on 07/30/2014 12:46:11 PM PDT by Q-ManRN
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To: Q-ManRN

Never leave your kid unattended with a doc. They could be a member of the Obamacare gun registry mafia. And if they ask you about it, say “None of your business, scum!”


2 posted on 07/30/2014 12:47:39 PM PDT by Viennacon (Barry Obama? No... Barack Hussein Soebarkah.)
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To: MinuteGal; M Kehoe; mcmuffin; Matchett-PI; Seeking the truth; JulieRNR21; surfer; Bob Ireland

2nd Amendment Florida ping


3 posted on 07/30/2014 12:48:18 PM PDT by Q-ManRN (Progressivism is regressive!)
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To: Q-ManRN

Axe away pal.
I got nuttin to say.


4 posted on 07/30/2014 12:48:32 PM PDT by mylife
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To: Q-ManRN

Any doctor so interrogating me is going to get his feelings hurt.


5 posted on 07/30/2014 12:49:21 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives.)
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To: Q-ManRN

Does he ask whether they live in a dangerous neighborhood? Whether their school provides security?


6 posted on 07/30/2014 12:50:01 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Q-ManRN

Patients have the right to tell you it’s none of your business. And to change doctors.


7 posted on 07/30/2014 12:50:56 PM PDT by Menehune56 ("Let them hate so long as they fear" (Oderint Dum Metuant), Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC))
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To: Q-ManRN

You do not have a “right” to ask about guns.

In a world where cakemakers are forced to serve gay marriages against their will I don’t want to hear condescending lectures from my doctor.


8 posted on 07/30/2014 12:51:10 PM PDT by Tzimisce
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To: Q-ManRN

Excellent post. I’m a physician. If I had to cover all the potential risks to life and limb with my patients I would never get around to addressing problems that really matter, especially when Obamacare will necessitate I spend about 5 minutes with each patient and get paid for only 90 seconds of that visit.


9 posted on 07/30/2014 12:51:21 PM PDT by BlueStateRightist (Government is best which governs least.)
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To: Q-ManRN

We have multiple generations and lots of children in them in my family that have owned firearms and to date not one accidental death or injury has occurred.

My kids are never alone with their doctor so the question will be handled by me and dependent on the mood I am in.


10 posted on 07/30/2014 12:51:40 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Viennacon

While in Colorado (Fort Carson) my daughter (16) had a doctors appointment. I figured she was old enough to tell the doc what was wrong so I waited in the outer room. A nurse came to get me and said that since she was under 18 I was required to go with her. After a few minutes of the doc (COL)talking to her he asked me to leave the room. I questioned him on why I was required to be there and then asked to leave. He said it is a privacy issue. I told him that everything about her was my business.
I ranted for a few minutes on government usurping my rights regarding my own child. He said he understood my concerns and again asked me to step out. NEVER let the government have control of your children! EVER!


11 posted on 07/30/2014 12:51:59 PM PDT by rfreedom4u (Your feelings don't trump my free speech!)
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To: Viennacon

I told my kids to say “no”. Nothing else. Because they’re right, my guns sank with my boat.


12 posted on 07/30/2014 12:52:12 PM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Q-ManRN

My daughter has had her own gun since she was 6 with never so mush as an accidental misfire when practicing. She is safer with a gun than a 25 year old woman with a crazed boyfriend or estranged husband is without.


13 posted on 07/30/2014 12:52:20 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (The cure has become worse than the disease. Support an end to the WOD now.)
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To: Viennacon

You’re far to polite in your response to the Doc.

But after my 4 letter word rant to the socialist, marxist scum.. I’d pick my kid up and walk out the door never to be seen by him/her again.


14 posted on 07/30/2014 12:52:36 PM PDT by maddog55
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To: Q-ManRN

Yo “Doc”. Do you also ask about the kids riding in motor vehicles, playing on slides or “monkey bars”? How about if there are any “recreational drugs” in the home? Or hot dogs that kids can choke on or peanut butter that can cause a serious allergic reaction. Then there are those big screen TVs that can fall over and crush the child. And what about...


15 posted on 07/30/2014 12:52:54 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (America is not a refugee camp! It is my home!!!)
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To: Q-ManRN

As much as the Liberals and their ilk want to deny it, having a sharpened pencil in the home is a risk factor for serious injury or death.....


16 posted on 07/30/2014 12:52:58 PM PDT by mylife
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To: Q-ManRN

Had any doctor ever asked such a question, my kid would have had a different pediatrician before close of business that day.


17 posted on 07/30/2014 12:53:00 PM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: Q-ManRN

You’re right, Doc. You have every right to ask. And I have every right to refuse to tell you, to tell you to mind your own business, or to just plain lie.


18 posted on 07/30/2014 12:53:15 PM PDT by IronJack
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To: Q-ManRN

My doctor talked to me about gun ownership the last time I saw him. He’d just picked up a nice Mauser in 7x57. We talk motorcycles a lot also.


19 posted on 07/30/2014 12:53:29 PM PDT by CrazyIvan (I lost my phased plasma rifle in a tragic hovercraft accident.)
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To: Viennacon

Teach your kids to say “you will have to ask my dad”


20 posted on 07/30/2014 12:53:30 PM PDT by enraged
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To: tumblindice

“Gee, doc, I’d hate to hurt your feelings by telling you what I think about you for asking that question, so let’s just pretend you didn’t.”


21 posted on 07/30/2014 12:53:51 PM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Q-ManRN

So ... do you ask about bleach, motor oil, radiator coolant, windex, buy spray, transmission fluid, etc? Hmmm do you?


22 posted on 07/30/2014 12:54:08 PM PDT by rayincolorado ("Those who forget the past, are condemned to repeat it ...")
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Or having electricity in the home of a bathtub or good lord knows what ever your fear du jour is


23 posted on 07/30/2014 12:54:15 PM PDT by mylife
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To: All

The doctor may ask the question and the patient may refuse to answer...Free speech works TWO ways....


24 posted on 07/30/2014 12:54:21 PM PDT by Boonie
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To: rfreedom4u

Children that I am financially and legally responsible for have no privacy.


25 posted on 07/30/2014 12:54:52 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Q-ManRN

Illegal aliens won’t be asked question about their legal status, so they can be free to report crime.

Gun owners will not be free from being questioned about their gun ownership, so they can be free to seek health care.

Equal rights! LOL


26 posted on 07/30/2014 12:55:07 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Think how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of the populace is worse than that.)
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To: Q-ManRN
it is for the sole purpose of keeping their children safe.

Not the Doctor's job. That's the job of parents. An MD provides medical assistance. His claims are ridiculous on their face.

27 posted on 07/30/2014 12:55:15 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (My life has been a poor attempt to imitate the man. I am a living legacy to the leader of the band.)
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To: Q-ManRN

What to advise children about gun questions from physicians or at schools is not an easy thing. It’s not good to teach them to lie, and if they say it’s none of your business, they are being disrespectful towards adults.

Perhaps the best thing for a child to say is, “That’s none of my business.”

This response is neither lying nor disrespectful. It is, in fact, entirely true, because it is not the children’s business to be caught between their parents and government busybodies.

It it also a lesson to the questioners, because it’s none of their business, either.


28 posted on 07/30/2014 12:55:27 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Conservatism is the political disposition of grown-ups.)
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To: Q-ManRN

With the advent of the electronic medical record, never tell your doctor anything you do not want the government to know. All the hospital and doctors offices medical records will connected to a data base that will be opened by any government entity for “national security” reasons. The government has destroyed doctor patient confidentiality.


29 posted on 07/30/2014 12:55:39 PM PDT by pterional
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To: Q-ManRN
And we have e the right to Tel you NYFB as well.
30 posted on 07/30/2014 12:56:03 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty - Honor - Country! What else needs said?)
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To: Q-ManRN

Just tell them, “Why don’t you break in tonight and see.”


31 posted on 07/30/2014 12:56:58 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need more than seven rounds, Much more.)
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To: Viennacon
Two things you can do.

We set up a NFA gun trust and put all Title I and Title II firearms in Appendix A and B.

This is a legal entity that "holds" the firearms as property and assets.

If ever a Doc is dumb enough to ask us about firearms, we can honestly and ethically say "We do not personnally own any firearms".

If they probe any further, stop them with this question: "What is the name, address, and phone number of your malpractice insurance"?

Insist on getting the information for the purposes of inquiring about their firearm profeciency, NRA training, CCW training, police or military service.

If they cannot produce those credentials, then they may be giving professional advice outside of their licensed expertise.

Doctors can lose their licenses for that. All doctors fear an inquiry from their medical malpractice or state medical board.

Stick to your guns, be polite, and try to deflect the question from ever entering the conversation.

32 posted on 07/30/2014 12:57:21 PM PDT by DCBryan1 (No realli, moose bytes can be quite nasti!!)
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To: Q-ManRN

FACTS TO PONDER :
(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000.

(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are120,000.

(Calculation) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.

Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health Human Services

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Now think about this:

Guns:

(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.

(Yes, that’s 80 million..)

(B) The number of accidental gun death per year, all age groups, is 1,500.

(Calculation) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .000188.

Statistics courtesy of FBI

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

So, statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Remember, ‘Guns don’t kill people, doctors do.’

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.

From: Truth or fiction.com


33 posted on 07/30/2014 12:57:23 PM PDT by WorksinKOP
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To: Jeff Chandler

As my children age in the this time of jerks among us I teach my kids the correct amount of disrespect to give to an adult that garnishes it. Respect is earned, not awarded.


34 posted on 07/30/2014 12:58:03 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: CrazyIvan

I’m not sure if people realize this, but at least some information you give your doctor goes into a big database.

There’s an insurance exchange, where any disease you have is reported so that insurers can tap into it and realize if you are a risk or not.

If physicians are contributing to this database, what’s to say they don’t report out gun ownership also.

When asked, I simply say no. I don’t own guns.

Don’t think a casual relationship with your physician will protect you. If a spouse can turn on you, is it out of the question for a physician to turn on you?

Keep your wits about you.


35 posted on 07/30/2014 12:58:18 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Think how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of the populace is worse than that.)
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To: Q-ManRN

And the patient has the right to refuse to answer.


36 posted on 07/30/2014 12:59:12 PM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: Q-ManRN
The author glosses over the main qualification of such a question, its relevance to the patient's medical condition. If it's relevant, sure, no problem, as in maybe it isn't such a good idea to touch off a .300 Winchester Magnum when you have a broken shoulder. If it isn't, asking in case it might become relevant someday is nothing more than snooping. The argument that the state shouldn't tell him how to practice medicine is one that was lost as soon as the state began issuing medical licenses.

That said, I talk about guns with my Doc all the time, mostly because one or the other of us will have bought a new one between visits.

37 posted on 07/30/2014 1:00:15 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Resolute Conservative

I still believe in children speaking respectfully to adults. That doesn’t mean they have to obey every adult, just keep their mouths under control.


38 posted on 07/30/2014 1:00:34 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Conservatism is the political disposition of grown-ups.)
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To: Viennacon

Since many more people killed by vehicles every year than by guns, it stands to reason that doctors would be better advised to ask about vehicles ownership and if everyone is properly trained in vehicle saftey.


39 posted on 07/30/2014 1:00:54 PM PDT by pajama pundit (I don't have enough faith to believe in evolution.)
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To: Q-ManRN
Don't ever get defensive. If your healthcare provider asks about guns in the house, ATTACK!

Ask him immediately if he's a homosexual pedophile. That should shut him up. If he asks again, attack again.

Never play their games. Always hit them back twice as hard as they hit you.

40 posted on 07/30/2014 1:01:32 PM PDT by Flycatcher (God speaks to us, through the supernal lightness of birds, in a special type of poetry.)
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To: Viennacon

The point is that the doctor should not be asking at all. If parents have a question or concern about firearms, they can choose to speak with their doctor. That solves the issue altogether.

Viennacon said “Never leave your kid unattended with a doc. They could be a member of the Obamacare gun registry mafia. And if they ask you about it, say ‘None of your business, scum!’”


41 posted on 07/30/2014 1:01:44 PM PDT by Q-ManRN (Progressivism is regressive!)
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To: Jeff Chandler

Agreed as a conversation starts, but I also instill in my kids when someone crosses a line and many of those lessons revolve around our constitution and those that are shredding it.


42 posted on 07/30/2014 1:02:05 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: Q-ManRN
to safeguard and support the health and wellbeing of my patients

That's nice Doc. Since our time together in the exam room will likely be short, howzabout you just deal with the problem(s) that caused me to visit you in the first place, mmmkay? You're not my overseer, you're a physician. Do what I'm paying you to do - diagnose and treat physical problems.

43 posted on 07/30/2014 1:02:22 PM PDT by opus86
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To: Q-ManRN

I remind the “good doctor” that the NRA is an organization devoted to safety whereas the Amer Acad of Pediatrics seems increasingly interested in political advocacy and less and less interested in childrens’ health.


44 posted on 07/30/2014 1:03:14 PM PDT by iacovatx (Conservatism is the political center--it is not "right" of center)
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To: pajama pundit

I’ve never had a pediatrician ask me about guns.

But in fairness I have had them ask me about car safety. Specifically child car seats, location in the vehicle, whether they were installed by me or the police/fire dept.


45 posted on 07/30/2014 1:03:23 PM PDT by tanknetter
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To: Q-ManRN
When I ask parents if there are firearms in the home, and if so how they are secured, it is for the sole purpose of keeping their children safe.

BS. None of these "professionals" need to inquire about individual ownership if safety were truly their motivation.

They could simply offer their safety tips without knowing who owns what. That would be mildly annoying, but if they aren't probing for personal info, then there's no threat of ulterior motives.

After all, a non gun owner parent might have relatives with firearms, so visiting grandma or bitter clinger Uncle Bob would be "risky". A a non gun owner parent might buy a gun long before he or she brings the little tyke in for another appointment, so looky there, more parents flying right under this doctor's gun radar. Etc.

So, if this guy is truly concerned about the children, he would give his generic gun safety spiel to all parents without the probing questions, but...

46 posted on 07/30/2014 1:03:37 PM PDT by Ezekiel (All who mourn the destruction of America merit the celebration of her rebirth.)
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To: Q-ManRN

Do they ask whether they have a swimming pool? Do they ask whether they have a gas grill? Do they ask whether they have a fireplace? Do they ask whether they have stairs? Do they ask whether they keep a gasoline can in the garage? Do they ask whether they have candles?

If they are only asking about a firearm, then the motive is other than “to keep the children safe”, IMHO.


47 posted on 07/30/2014 1:04:08 PM PDT by NEMDF
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To: Q-ManRN

http://www.2asisters.org/PhysicianAffidavit.pdf

have them sign this form - it should make them pucker HARD


48 posted on 07/30/2014 1:04:10 PM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Q-ManRN
When I ask parents if there are firearms in the home, and if so how they are secured, it is for the sole purpose of keeping their children safe.

Bullsh!t.

If that were the case, the author would also question the parents closely about usage of safety belts and child safety seats when driving, usage of proper headgear when riding a bicycle or tricycle, the presence and accessibility of swimming pools in the neighborhood, the presence of unattended five-gallon buckets in the home, and so on... because a legitimate interest in safety involves all these things. They are all as dangerous or more dangerous to children than are guns.

The absence of such questions from the doctor's interview is, on the face of it, evidence that the gun question isn't driven by a concern for safety. And if I had to pick a choice for the reason why it's there, politics would be my top pick.

49 posted on 07/30/2014 1:04:26 PM PDT by Oberon (John 12:5-6)
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To: Q-ManRN
Yes they have the right to ask. This is Amweica
I / We have the right to tell them where to go. This is America.
50 posted on 07/30/2014 1:04:30 PM PDT by DeaconRed (I see why they want our guns. Thank you founding fathers for the second amendment.)
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