Skip to comments.The West's Reckless Rush Towards War With Russia
Posted on 08/01/2014 11:16:09 AM PDT by Pining_4_TX
For reasons that have no rational explanations at this time, the US and Europe have embarked on a concerted program to demonize Putin, ostracize Russia, and bring the world as close to a major conflict as it's been since the Cold War, a time hardly memorable to many in the current crop of our elected officials.
Within hours of the MH-17 plane crash, the United States pinned the blame on Russia generally, and Putin particularly. The anti-Putin propaganda (and if there were a stronger term I'd use it) has been relentless and almost comically over-the-top (see image above, and those below).
The US and the UK in particular, are leading the charge.
(Excerpt) Read more at zerohedge.com ...
1. Who is provoking whom in Ukraine exactly? and
2. How much territory outside Russia's current borders is Putin entitled to annex before we dare risk "provoking" him over it?
How long did the Munich accord last before Germany rolled tanks into the Sudetenland? I forget... but it wasn’t measured in years.
I could not think of a better way to promote Putin propaganda than the statement you just made. Let's not provoke them over Georgia too right? Your position is not only idiotic, but immoral and a betrayal to liberty and freedom.
There you go! Throwing cold water on Obama’s most lasting legacy: starting a brand new COLD WAR with Russia!
In all fairness, partial credit must be given to Mrs. Bill Clinton while she was Obama’s Secretary of Statements for handing Russia’s go-to-guy with a Reset button.
BTW, is it true that the Reset button was marked opposite to what she said to the Russian?
McCain Tells Ukraine Protesters America Is With You - December 2013
FYI The guy to his left is a NEO-NAZI
I doubt you will accept it, but the west provoked Russia first by expanding its influence closer and closer to Russia. The US also helped to foment the protests that overthrew the elected government of the Ukraine.
Second, historically, the Crimea was always a part of Russia. The Russian-speaking people in eastern Ukraine voted to align with Russia. Once again, western powers declared an election invalid because it didn’t like the results. So much for promoting democracy. There is only the west’s contention that Russia has the intention of recreating the former Soviet Union.
Third, this is a different age. There will not be another WWII in the nuclear age. To provoke a major nuclear power over something that is Europe’s problem is nuts. Other than sanctions, which are almost always ineffective and will hurt Europe and US interests as much as Russian, what would you have us do? Send weapons, troops? To what end?
In case nobody noticed, the US is broke. We are being invaded from the south and infiltrated by Islamic radicals. To spend time, money, or energy poking the Russian bear is absurd.
And, no, I don’t trust Putin, but I don’t trust any government. They all lie.
I’m embarrassed to share membership with some of these people.
Did you even read the article at Zero Hedge or just immediately start typing a “shoot the messenger” comment?
Case in point, he mentions Russkie claims of the SU-25 being "within a few kilometeres" of the airliner. The Russkies themselves claim that it was "flying on the same level" and "tailing" the airliner.
An SU-25 cannot reach the same height as the airliner, and the closest it could get would be 3KM, directly beneath it, and that without any extra weight on it such as armarments. The Russkies were even on Wikipedia trying to upgrade the SU-25 for a gullible public. Secondly, the top speed of the SU-25 cannot "tail" the airliner.
He also mentions the alleged photographs of Ukrainian Buks. But from the place where the Russkies allege they were, this would mean the missile would have had to travel all loud and bright across Russkie positions to hit the airliner, and yet without being noticed.
He also calls the social media postings "questionable." He is referring to the admission by Strelkov that they shot down the airliner, which was also picked up by Russian media, although, at the time, they did not know it was an airliner. The Russkies were also bragging for quite awhile about having Buks, all of which postings were also deleted. So Zerohedge calls them "questionable" because there is not much else you can say to confessions like that.
Furthermore, Bezler confirmed the recordings provided by the Ukrainian SBU as real, although he claimed he was somehow taken out of context. By so doing, however, he admits to taking orders and reporting to the Russian GRU, with whom he was communicating. He also admits, by so doing, of having Buks in the area.
Next, it has been proven that the Russkies had Buks in the area beyond just the taped confessions. Journalists from Reuters and others saw the Buks moving around. Residents saw Buks moving around and took photographs of them, which were geolocated to the areas they claimed they were. These same Buks were seen leaving to Russia and filmed doing so. The Russkies claimed it was a fake, a Ukrainian Buk in some controlled city, but their fake claim was fake, as their allegation relied on the alleged presence of a street address on a billboard, which, however, is not actually visible in the video (they're just making claims, and hoping people are dumb enough to believe them). Since that time, journalists and others have confirmed that the video was in fact taken where it claimed to be. Therefore, we know that Buks fled to Russia.
At this point, trying to make this a NATO/EU conspiracy is stupid.
Mother of God, chase Putin away!
No offense to you, pining, ... but after seeing your posting of this article I actually went to the ZeroHedge site for the first time. The people who comment at ZeroHedge are among the most demented Paulbots, jew haters, Putinistas, truthers and general nutcases you will find. There they are, stuck like flies on flypaper, buzzing and flapping their wings, but they can’t go anywhere.
I’m within a year of Mr. Obama’s age and I remember the cold war just fine. Of course, I, like a lot of others here, was in uniform for part of it, something he never even thought of doing.
Putin does seem to be getting more desperate. His economic policies are still failing (even with high oil prices). He is losing important buffer countries as allies. He is surrounded by gangsters at home and he has associated himself with drunken derelict terrorists abroad.
The problem is that we have to confront him. He's become a terrorist and innocent people are dying. He's become more immediately dangerous to innocent civilians than North Korea's Kim Jong-Un. We can't just give up commercial air flight to appease him.
The world needs to defeat him. Maybe, until Putin is removed, the West should cease flying in Russian air space and should forbid Russian planes to use Western air space.
What ground breaking smoking gun did Zero Hedge find? Can it re-write the history of the Soviet Union, the KGB and it's current dictator Putin, then candy coat it in a way that impresses you?
Why is freedom and liberty a right for you, but not anyone else?
Roosyuh ezz Hillarys spiritual home away from home
You are right. The EU & us keep closing the noose around Russia’s throat. This is shortsighted in the face of what confronts us throughout the world. Russia is our best potential ally against the enemies of Islam and China.
I agree that we will not involve ourselves militarily in Ukraine... but I disagree with the way you frame the discussion. I don't see us "provoking Russia over the Ukraine" so much as I see us holding Putin accountable for his territorial ambitions.
If you're worried that US action will impact stability in Europe, forget it. Putin has already impacted stability in Europe.
How about Poland ?
The Baltic States ?
Can we provoke them in these countries ?
Normally those who resort to personal insults are the ones losing the argument. I provided a link to the article.
Thanks for the headsup on Zero Hedge. I am surrounded by Paulhroid/Alex Jones nutcases here in the Austin area. They are among some of the worst and most dangerous people in the US. One of them crashed a small plane into an office building here 4 years ago, killing an IRS agent inside. Now they openly support a KGB dictator. We live in very dangerous times.
Americans don’t have what it takes to endure a war. Most people don’t want to go to war over Ukraine.
If China invades Taiwan, there would be no involvement of the usa.
It’s a post war America.
Shutup Tyler and stick to stocks..
An insane opinion! Russia is helping Iran with their nuclear program and is allies with China, even conducting joint war games with them a few years ago.
And why can't you even secure your own border?
Russia is not interested in being our ally, they are recreating the Soviet Union
Ronald Reagan is rolling in his grave seeing how many of you are trying to revive the Soviet Union.
Russia can do as they please with no risk of war with the U.S. as long as that America hating wimp is in the White House.
Wow, what a stupid comparison. I'm sorry for calling you a 'useful idiot'. I meant to say that you are an 'idiot' without any adjective or preposition. If you'd like, you can call me "capitalist pig" or some other marxist slur commonly heard by your beloved comrades in Russia.
You need to take your meds now. Before Ron Paul comes to take you away.
The article was “Submitted by Chris Martenson via Peak Prosperity...”
In addition, ZeroHedge is a wild west saloon, as is FreeRepublic, where keyboard-gunfights, hostile words, and insults are flung about with similar frequencies.
Both forums evidently have a Russia Household Guard; and both forums have several other encampments opposed to Russian aggression.
Russia *is* the aggressor who invaded Ukraine.
Also, MH-17 was shot down by a BUK missile system operated by Russian agents in the Ukraine; and Russian agents strongly inhibited, and continue to inhibit, investigation of the shootdown and crash sites.
Russia has committed two acts of war against foreign nations and neither act was for freedom - there is *no* justification.
Reagan knew how to handle Russian aggression, but now we have too many enemies within, both in and out of Washington.
We are NOT going to go to war with Russia.
Both we and they have enough nukes to blow-up the world a thousand times over.
That was enough to ensure cooler heads prevailed during the entire duration of the Cold War, when tensions frequently ran much higher than they do today.
---- An insane opinion! Russia is helping Iran with their nuclear program and is allies with China, even conducting joint war games with them a few years ago.
--- You may think that Russia as an ally is insane but do you suggest China or Islam? Russia is not our rival unless we are pulled by the nose by the EU or our own war mongers.
No one is provoking them in the Ukraine except Putin’s desire to extend the Russian empire and capture the dreams of Soviet yesteryears.
Did you even read what I wrote? Is Iran not an Islamic country? And didn't you just call China an enemy, so why are you justifying an alliance with China now over Islam?
Obama and the Western Europeans are running away as fast as they think they can get away with it.
Putin is clearly the aggressor here, and if any general war starts, it will be because he doesn't give up and some other players (like Poland) decide to start give Ukraine some real military assistance and drag the rest of us into it.
Just like 1914.
Utter horse manure: Does anyone seriously think NATO is an offensive alliance? That it posed or poses any serious threat of invading Russia?
Sorry, but Russia simply has no right to control any other state's foreign policy, to say nothing of annexing its territory.
Whatever one thinks of Putin and Russia, it is insanity to provoke them over the Ukraine.
The Obama/EU axis knows that it is militarily and psychologically too weak to send troops to that area. But they could make Russia pay a price for its success via sanctions and military aid to Ukraine. Putin got away with the Crimea takeover, but he needs to learn to quit while he is ahead. He is pushing the envelope.
weakness begets war...over and over again in history. The only reason it is provocation is because our president is weak of character and probably a muslim.
Putin is just trying to restore the “glory” of the old Soviet Union. Nothing he does should surprise us.
Rreally? Exactly which nations did we annex to the US to encroach on Russia?
590MPH is fast enough to tail a jetliner... though it won’t be catching up any ground....
Maybe he who is not really Durden should invest in freedom then and stop supporting foreign communism and mercantilism against the U.S.A. The interesting weather, the economy, likely wars, plagues...not enough? Maybe we’ll see more fun then, until there is no way at all to keep money or be safe.
These people don’t really think Obama is going to do anything about any of this, do they?
It seems plain to me that there are 3 groups Obama will actually DO things for: Illegals, Homosexuals, Muslims.
If you don’t fit into one of those groups - forget it. He’s buying shrimp!
My understanding is, either 560 or 590MPH would be the top speed... if it was not carrying any armaments. Similarly, its top altitude would be 23,000 feet... if it had no armaments. If it was fully loaded, it might have reached 16,000 feet, and would have been flying at a rate too slow to hit the 777. Furthermore, it would have to point up, way up, and hopefully avoid stalling, with weapons of dubious ability to even hit the target.
No one wants a war with Russia—there would be no winners here—maybe China or anyone who would not be draw into the conflict. Putin is no Hitler (he’s smarter for one thing) but he’s no sunday school teacher. Will he use all he can to expand Russia on the world stage—yes—even murder! Remember that ex-KGB agent who fled to England —called Putin Names and got a dose of Radiation poisoning that killed him. In Russia the fellow was seen as a Traitor deserving his fate. Their are no ex-KGB agents—like the mob—they only way to get out is death.