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California: Desalination Plants May Be State’s Only Solution Despite Environmental, Energy Concerns
International Business Times ^ | July 27, 2014 | Angelo Young

Posted on 08/02/2014 9:28:49 AM PDT by grundle

Full title: California Sand Fire: Desalination Plants May Be State’s Only Solution Despite Environmental, Energy Concerns

One of the solutions could be something parts of the Middle East began adopting decades ago: desalination plants, an energy-intensive process of converting seawater into drinking water.

Meeting California’s water needs might not help combat the effect of global warming, but an ample supply of water would at least help keep back the dry conditions from around residential communities, and it would help the state’s massive agricultural industry meet its own water needs.

Currently California is building the largest desalination plant in the Western Hemisphere in Carlsbad. At a cost of $1 billion, the plant will produce 50 million gallons a day for San Diego County by 2016. The plant, and others like it in California, use reverse osmosis technology, which uses less energy than the thermal desalination process of evaporating and re-condensing seawater. Fourteen other desalination plants are in the works. Critics say the process is too costly.

"This [Carlsbad project] is going to be the pig that will try for years to find the right shade of lipstick," Marco Gonzalez, an attorney who sued on behalf of environmental groups that tried to halt construction, told the San Jose Mercury News last month. "This project will show that the water is just too expensive."

“As the cost of imported water is on the rise and technological advances are bringing down the cost of converting seawater into potable water, desalination has become the only truly drought-proof process to deliver a new source of clean, safe, high-quality water in a cost-effective and environmentally sound way,” Allan Zaremberg, president and CEO of the California Chamber of Commerce, wrote in a letter to the editor in the Los Angeles Times recently.

(Excerpt) Read more at ibtimes.com ...


TOPICS: US: California
KEYWORDS: california; desalination; drought
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Israel has been using large scale desalination for a long time, and has solved its water shortages. California has chosen to avoid doing this, and is now suffering the consequences.
1 posted on 08/02/2014 9:28:49 AM PDT by grundle
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To: grundle

How are they going to power these science miracle plants? With wine and cheese farts from San Francisco?


2 posted on 08/02/2014 9:30:12 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: grundle

It’s the enviro whackos that are to blame.


3 posted on 08/02/2014 9:30:29 AM PDT by boycott
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To: grundle

So, build nukes and de-saltifiers side by side up and down the California coast. Why is this a problem?


4 posted on 08/02/2014 9:34:54 AM PDT by bubbacluck (America 180)
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To: grundle

Duh...they are concerned about the cost to provide water to drink but are going ahead with spending billions on the Brown’s foolish train project. That is an egregious example of misplaced priorities.


5 posted on 08/02/2014 9:36:37 AM PDT by txrefugee
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To: grundle
The environmental groups that are doing everything they can to stop Desal plants are the reason California is “avoiding” this solution.

Fortunately, the nutbars have been shut down in my area as I live very close to the new Desal plant being constructed in Carlsbad. It's progressing nicely despite the naysayers.

6 posted on 08/02/2014 9:36:46 AM PDT by Pox (Good Night. I expect more respect tomorrow.)
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To: grundle

It is way past time for arid ocean front western states to start large scale desalinization to augment water resources. There simply isn’t enough water for the increasing populations in the west.


7 posted on 08/02/2014 9:37:04 AM PDT by Nuc 1.1 (Nuc 1 Liberals aren't Patriots. Remember 1789!)
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To: grundle

But what effects will this have on the Tree Newt, the Desert Tortoise, the Sand Mouse and the Piping Plovers?

I dunno about this.......


8 posted on 08/02/2014 9:39:22 AM PDT by mowowie
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To: grundle

I’ve been saying this for 25 years. Environmentalists would rather place demands and restrictions and impose bans than work towards a solution


9 posted on 08/02/2014 9:39:37 AM PDT by realcleanguy
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Comment #10 Removed by Moderator

To: grundle

California has two nuclear powerplants on the coast, San Onofre (currently offline), and Diablo Canyon. Use those two plants to provide power and process heat for desalinizing operations.


11 posted on 08/02/2014 9:41:19 AM PDT by factoryrat (We are the producers, the creators. Grow it, mine it, build it.)
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To: grundle

Meeting California’s water needs might not help combat the effect of global warming, but an ample supply of water would at least help keep back the dry conditions from around residential communities, and it would help the state’s massive agricultural industry meet its own water needs.
++++
LOL. But what if we are actually in a long term cooling trend? This would help reverse that trend, eliminate the evil Climate Change and bring Nirvana to The People’s Republic of California.


12 posted on 08/02/2014 9:47:00 AM PDT by InterceptPoint (Remember Mississippi)
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To: grundle

Long thread on similar subject

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3181628/posts

20 Signs The Drought In The Western United States Is Starting To Become Apocalyptic


13 posted on 08/02/2014 9:48:38 AM PDT by HangnJudge
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To: realcleanguy

http://capoliticalnews.com/2014/02/09/drought-wars-where-did-the-farm-water-go/


14 posted on 08/02/2014 9:49:29 AM PDT by sheana
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To: grundle

The absolute last things that the enviro whackos in California want are cheap energy or available water. They want to drive the remaining middle class out of California so that the rich liberals and their illegal alien servants will have it to themselves.

I am being totally serious here.


15 posted on 08/02/2014 9:50:27 AM PDT by Bubba_Leroy (The Obamanation Continues)
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To: grundle

Environmentalists have stopped almost all long term soltions to drought. The Red River and the Mississippi often floods uncontrollably.It would not be impossible to build large pipelines to run along interstates and pumps to be powered by gas that is now just burned off to bring that water into the Colorado and the arid southwest


16 posted on 08/02/2014 9:52:11 AM PDT by allendale
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To: grundle

US Naval Station Guantanamo Bay gets all its fresh water from a desalination plant.


17 posted on 08/02/2014 9:52:36 AM PDT by Ken522
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To: mowowie

You missed out the grunnion.


18 posted on 08/02/2014 9:56:45 AM PDT by I am Richard Brandon
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To: boycott
"This [Carlsbad project] is going to be the pig that will try for years to find the right shade of lipstick," Marco Gonzalez, an attorney who sued on behalf of environmental groups that tried to halt construction, told the San Jose Mercury News last month. "This project will show that the water is just too expensive."

Wow, the trifecta - a Hispaic environmetal attorney. I wonder what he would think the water is too expensive if he were REALLY thirsty?

19 posted on 08/02/2014 9:59:25 AM PDT by Aria ( 2008 & 2012 weren't elections - they were coup d'etats.)
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To: grundle
If I lived in a desert, I would prefer water over a train, but that's just me.

5.56mm

20 posted on 08/02/2014 10:02:37 AM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: Bubba_Leroy

Why would they want that? It would mean the rich liberals would have to pay ALL the taxes and they’d have no one to do their mid-level work for them, the programming, the accounting, etc.


21 posted on 08/02/2014 10:02:50 AM PDT by Aria ( 2008 & 2012 weren't elections - they were coup d'etats.)
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To: grundle

Since so much of the population is on the coast desalinization is a natural for California. No reason not to drive the plants with solar or wind power (or both) since 24 hour a day operation is not necessary.


22 posted on 08/02/2014 10:03:12 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: allendale
Red River and the Mississippi...large pipelines...bring that water into the Colorado and the arid southwest

You want to pump water over the Continental Divide?

23 posted on 08/02/2014 10:03:27 AM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves" Month.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

Or drop a pipe into a nice, big, high altitude lake, Yellowstone 7700’ so pumping is not an issue, siphoning will work just fine, run the pipe down Jackson Hole, across Wyoming into a tributary of the Colorado river.

Just ignore that volcano under the lake


24 posted on 08/02/2014 10:07:40 AM PDT by HangnJudge
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To: Gaffer
How are they going to power these science miracle plants?

They are a natural for wind and solar power, maybe even thorium reactors. You could also take power from the grid during off hours.

25 posted on 08/02/2014 10:07:48 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: boycott

I agree, manmade droughts are real.


26 posted on 08/02/2014 10:13:24 AM PDT by TauntedTiger (On the outside looking in!)
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To: grundle
Critics say the process is too costly.

Say the people trying to inflict gigantic new energy costs on taxpayers and consumers.

27 posted on 08/02/2014 10:16:49 AM PDT by denydenydeny ("World History is not full of good governments, or of good voters either "--P.J. O'Rourke)
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To: grundle
The bottom line is there is way too many people living in California and in the San Joaquin valley. They are actually moving the poor to Fresno from LA and the Bay area which is another story .
You look over the San Joaquin valley and you see a sprawling population with lush landscaping and you know all good things must come to an end. Living here in Fresno I can see the trees and private landscaping is stressed and dying in the 108 degree sun. Now we can only water twice a week which I expect most yards will die. The water source for Fresno is ground water which is technically a non renewable resource. The water table has gone from 60 feet in the 1930’s to 250 feet, dropping several feet a year and is even much deeper in other parts of the valley.

Yesterday they stopped the flow of canal water out to the farms which seems earlier than previous years. If we get another year like this, Agriculture will be gone in the valley and so will America's most important bread basket.

28 posted on 08/02/2014 10:21:31 AM PDT by pterional
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To: Mike Darancette

Unlike the other two, thorium reactors are not a joke and the Chinese fortunately are doing their best to perfect the technology.


29 posted on 08/02/2014 10:22:04 AM PDT by MSF BU (Support the troops: Join Them.)
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To: grundle
There are 38 million people in CA compared to 6 million in Israel. And Israel is a much smaller size in area, which makes it easier to move the water around to where it is needed.

Desalinization isn't cheap and it is energy intensive. And you need to build the infrastructure to distribute the water. The taxpayer/consumer will face a larger bite in an already overtaxed state. And I wonder how agriculture will deal with the increased costs of doing business.

30 posted on 08/02/2014 10:26:44 AM PDT by kabar
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To: grundle

California MUST have desalination plants. How else can they avoid being flooded by rising sea levels due to GlowBull warming, if they don’t drain seawater? This is the perfect solution... remove seawater on the Calif. coast, divert that freshwater inland, lowers the seas by the coast offsetting its rise.

Trick question for Lieberals: If the water on the California seacoast is lowered, could the differential in weight of all the seawater elsewhere make CA tip over?


31 posted on 08/02/2014 10:29:00 AM PDT by C210N (When people fear government there is tyranny; when government fears people there is liberty)
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To: grundle

Desalinization will help, but there is actually plenty of water in California over the long haul. The problem is most of it flows out to sea in the heavy rain years. With adequate infrastructure, far more of it can be captured and moved back upstream to the reservoir system rather than let it go to waste.

This could all be accomplished with a fraction of what the idiots want to spend on high speed rail.


32 posted on 08/02/2014 10:29:00 AM PDT by rottndog ('Live Free Or Die' Ain't just words on a bumber sticker...or a tagline.)
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To: denydenydeny
Desalination plants a pricey option if drought persists

Seventeen plants are in planning stages along the coast to convert salt water from the ocean or bays, including one near Concord that would serve every major water agency in the Bay Area.

That plant is tentatively targeted to open in 2020, but could be kick-started earlier in an emergency, officials say - and once online, would gush at least 20 million gallons a day of drinkable water.

Starting up this string of desalination plants would be no easy skate, though. Machines that filter salt out of water still face the same opposition they have for generations from critics who say they are too expensive to run, kill fish as they suck in briny water, and spew greenhouse gases into the air from the energy they require to run.

But in recent years, as technology and techniques for desalination have improved, such plants have gained momentum - enough so that in Carlsbad near San Diego, the biggest desalination facility in the Western Hemisphere is under construction and set to begin operation in two years.

During the last major California drought, from 1985 to 1991, there was enough interest in desalination that a large plant was built to serve Santa Barbara. But it was promptly mothballed after being finished in 1992. By then, with the drought over, water from traditional sources was again about two-thirds cheaper than the $3,000 per acre-foot it cost to produce the plant's water.

An acre-foot is equivalent to one acre covered by water 1 foot deep, enough to supply two families of four for a year.

That cost gap has narrowed, however. With better screens and technology that helps the plants power themselves by recycling the energy used to suck in water - in a way, like a hybrid car regenerates power from its own motion - the typical cost of running desalination plants can dip below $2,000 an acre-foot. Because pulling up groundwater from wells and recycling water can now cost the same or more, desalination is suddenly relatively affordable for many areas - such as the Bay Area.

Surface water from reservoirs and mountain runoff, in plentiful years, can be as cheap as $100 an acre-foot. But that bargain has become scarce in the drought.

33 posted on 08/02/2014 10:36:03 AM PDT by kabar
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To: ROCKLOBSTER

It can be done using the power from gas that is currently being burned off to power the pumps. But it will never be allowed by the EPA.


34 posted on 08/02/2014 10:36:37 AM PDT by allendale
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To: liege

My thought exactly;desalination powered by nuclear plants.And then California could stop stealing water from the interior.


35 posted on 08/02/2014 10:37:13 AM PDT by hoosierham (Freedom isn't free)
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To: liege

If your going to do that then use Thorium Reactors.


36 posted on 08/02/2014 10:40:01 AM PDT by Captain Peter Blood
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To: grundle

Should have been doing De-Sal twenty years ago.


37 posted on 08/02/2014 10:41:30 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: Gaffer

How are they going to power these science miracle plants? With wine and cheese farts from San Francisco?


With wind turbines and solar panels of course...


38 posted on 08/02/2014 10:48:00 AM PDT by Hotlanta Mike (‘You can avoid reality, but you can’t avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.’)
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To: grundle
Why not just buy Great Lakes water like China?

http://www.westernjournalism.com/obamas-blessing-nations-water-supply-disappearing/

39 posted on 08/02/2014 10:53:42 AM PDT by Lockbox
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To: M Kehoe

If I lived in a desert, I’d prefer the train, so I could get out. LOL

If I wanted to stay, the train could bring me tanker cars of water, and clean unicorn farts for carbon-free fuel.
It could also bring me stowaway illegals to work for me, and keep up the golf course and resort.
The tanker cars of water would keep the everything green and growing; the unicorn farts would power the A/C and hotel for rich progressive environmentalist coming for the regular conferences to discuss energy and water conservation for everyone else.

/sarc


40 posted on 08/02/2014 10:58:14 AM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Love me, love my guns!©)
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To: grundle

Unfortunately, for the people in California, these plants use ELECTRICITY, so they are NON-STARTERS.

...but then these SAME PEOPLE voted for the SAME PEOPLE that will not allow them to have electricity.

So it’s hard to feel sorry for them.


41 posted on 08/02/2014 11:02:50 AM PDT by BobL
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To: InterceptPoint

As soon as I read “global warming” I stopped reading the article and skipped down to the comments.


42 posted on 08/02/2014 11:34:59 AM PDT by Two Kids' Dad (((( ))))
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To: kabar

“Desalinization isn’t cheap and it is energy intensive. And you need to build the infrastructure to distribute the water. The taxpayer/consumer will face a larger bite in an already overtaxed state. And I wonder how agriculture will deal with the increased costs of doing business.”

If they just let water be owned privately and let the market bid the price, this would all take care of itself in about 10-15 years. Agriculture and businesses would adapt to more expensive water; homeowners would too. Conservation would skyrocket and new ways of producing and transporting water to people willing to pay would emerge.


43 posted on 08/02/2014 11:42:34 AM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: kabar

Everywhere I go I see people drinking water from plastic bottles at a cost of what, $5 a gallon or higher? Drinking $6 coffees from Starbucks. We’ve got enough money for desalinization plants and then some.


44 posted on 08/02/2014 11:42:47 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Name your illness, do a Google & YouTube search with "hydrogen peroxide". Do it and be surprised.)
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To: grundle

Do the rat controlled state of CA want water to drink or do they want
to protect the green eyed grasshopper?.

My guess is that they will choose water.


45 posted on 08/02/2014 12:01:22 PM PDT by tennmountainman (True conservatives don't like being rained on by their own party!)
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To: grundle

They haven’t figured that out yet? With all their sun, and proximity to the ocean, they should be turning seawater into drinking water.


46 posted on 08/02/2014 12:02:10 PM PDT by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible. Complicit in the destruction of this country.)
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To: grundle

i don’t know why the desal plant is Santa Barbara is taken out of moth balls and fired up


47 posted on 08/02/2014 12:08:05 PM PDT by markman46 (engage brain before using keyboard!!!)
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To: boycott

It’s the envirowhackos that are to blame.

Indeed. And if there was wise opposition that opposition would be claiming that unbridled immigration is a threat to the environment and we’d be pushing the whackos to start lawsuits to block it.


48 posted on 08/02/2014 12:51:43 PM PDT by CARTOUCHE (Goodbye Mr. Chimps)
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To: B4Ranch
We’ve got enough money for desalinization plants and then some.

Where does the money come from? Are those people with the plastic bottles of water going to stop drinking bottled water? Water is a necessity. The government will control it and dictate how it is used. It will only be a matter of time before we have the water police.

49 posted on 08/02/2014 12:58:59 PM PDT by kabar
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To: grundle

They'd have enough salt to last forver

And the other good news with California sucking out all the seawater it will counteract the rising sea levels....
50 posted on 08/02/2014 2:03:21 PM PDT by Organic Panic
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