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Russia's Emperor Has No Clothes
realclearpolitics.com ^ | August 3, 2014 | Cathy Young

Posted on 08/03/2014 11:41:20 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe

There is widespread agreement that Putin stumbled badly with his plans for “Novorossiya”—the archaic, Tsarist-era term for Eastern Ukraine that he and his propagandists have dusted off. After the quick success in Crimea, met with toothless and fairly muted outrage from the West, Putin apparently hoped to use the same modus operandi in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions: having a motley crew of disaffected locals and Russian “volunteers” seize power by taking over city and regional government buildings, hold referendums and declare independence. His goal may not have been annexation—a bit too much even for the accommodating international community to swallow—but gaining enough leverage to keep Ukraine cowed, demoralized, and unfit for European Union partnership.

As Putin learned the hard way, “Novorossiya” is no Crimea. A large percentage of Crimea’s population did support unification with Russia (even if the official referendum results were bogus, as confirmed by data disclosed by a government-affiliated Russian human rights group). In Eastern Ukraine, on the other hand, widespread distrust of the new pro-Western government in Kiev did not translate into separatist sentiment: in a Pew poll in April, secession was viewed as a permissible option by only 18 percent of the region’s population and 27 percent of its Russian speakers. The “referendums” in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions lacked even the patina of legitimacy that the Crimea vote had, and even Russia didn’t quite have the nerve to recognize it. ....

The shoot-down of Flight MH17, which killed 298 people on board, was both a tragic twist of fate and a natural outcome of Russia’s reckless actions: creating a war zone on European soil and supplying powerful, army-grade weapons to a ragtag militia with a lot of crazy extremists, thugs and thrill-seekers among them was bound to have unintended consequences, none of them good.

(Excerpt) Read more at realclearpolitics.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial
KEYWORDS: mh17; ukraine

1 posted on 08/03/2014 11:41:20 AM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Same as the U.S. emperor.


2 posted on 08/03/2014 11:42:44 AM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (America is not a refugee camp! It is my home!!!)
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"We moved our base camp last night and we’re now positioned literally
within feet of the river. Have been sitting here watching the border
patrol patrolling in their riverboats all night and all morning..."

~Jim Robinson



Please support Free Republic
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3 posted on 08/03/2014 11:43:02 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

Must be using ubamao’s tailor.


4 posted on 08/03/2014 11:46:51 AM PDT by Pilgrim's Progress (http://www.baptistbiblebelievers.com/BYTOPICS/tabid/335/Default.aspx)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

And our president’s clothes have no president.


5 posted on 08/03/2014 11:49:35 AM PDT by cuban leaf (The US will not survive the obama presidency. The world may not either.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Russia has ALWAYS been ruled by the Mob.. “some Mob”.. different mobsters...

Whether Tsar(King) or Communist or democractic.. it’s a MOB..
Ruled by the majority guided and intimidated by an elite Cabal..

Same in China and India and quite literally every where on this planet..

NOTHING changed (at all) UNTIL the American Constitution..
THEN a Sea change in political concepts...

Little wonder the entire evil political world has been set to abrogate it (since)..
TO GET THINGS back to normal.. total Mob Rule by mobsters..

You know.. DEMOCRACY.. Mob Rule by mobsters.. IN EVERY CASE..
Who is for this.?.. DEMOCRATS.. “progressives”..


6 posted on 08/03/2014 11:54:51 AM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

He may not have clothes, but he has the Topol, which we don’t even come close to matching.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT-2PM_Topol


7 posted on 08/03/2014 11:56:50 AM PDT by BobL
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To: Tailgunner Joe
The Pew Poll claims in this article are very misleading. The poll did not have any results specific to the rebelling region of Donetsk and Luhansk. The poll divided results into only Western, and Eastern Ukraine. But the rebelling region is a really tiny part of Eastern Ukraine as you can see on the pew poll map: No one was polled in Luhansk at all (had none of the polled cities), and if proportionality was consistent across the cities polled, then less than 100 were polled in Donetsk. What this article is doing is like staring at poll numbers for the entire USA, and declaring it tells you the distinctive opinion of a particular state (when the results weren't reported by state) Whatever true opinion the rebelling area has is diluted and lost in the overwhelming majority of people polled from outside the region.
8 posted on 08/03/2014 12:08:48 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: Mount Athos

the original map didn’t look that big on the screen sorry


9 posted on 08/03/2014 12:09:33 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: BobL

We still have enough ICBM’s, SLBM’s, cruise missiles and nuclear bombs to fry Russia to a crisp.


10 posted on 08/03/2014 12:16:51 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Out of principle we oppose Obama, and for the same reason we oppose Putin.


11 posted on 08/03/2014 12:35:05 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

“We still have enough ICBM’s, SLBM’s, cruise missiles and nuclear bombs to fry Russia to a crisp.”

Not if Obama gets his way...


12 posted on 08/03/2014 12:41:57 PM PDT by BobL
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To: Tailgunner Joe

“Meanwhile, there are many signs that Putin’s billionaire pals are already chafing at the costs of his adventurism. Even before the latest sanctions, there were reports, based on German intelligence sources, of a power struggle in the Kremlin between hardliners and business leaders. Early in July, a similar report of a split between “hawks” and “doves” within Russia’s power elites appeared in the Russian online newspaper Znak.com, which Russian online media analyst and Moscow Times columnist Victor Davidoff told me has connections to Kremlin insiders. Today’s Russian elite, unlike the Soviet-era nomenklatura with its home-based dachas and luxury foods, has a lot to lose in the West. The latest reminder of this fact comes from reports on the U.S. properties of Mikhail Lesin, former press minister and currently head of a giant state-controlled media holding, who may soon become the target of a federal money laundering investigation. Lesin and his immediate family members own multiple residences in the Los Angeles area said to be worth at least $28 million.”

Read more: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/08/03/russias_emperor_has_no_clothes_123545.html#ixzz39MPxmkzO
Follow us: @RCP_Articles on Twitter


13 posted on 08/03/2014 12:52:08 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: elhombrelibre

that is interesting


14 posted on 08/03/2014 12:54:11 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: BobL

Obama’s “Russian reset” has proved to be a laughable failure. It won’t happen again. Putin’s actions have made sure of that.


15 posted on 08/03/2014 1:32:27 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

I sure hope so...but you never know with this bunch.


16 posted on 08/03/2014 1:39:15 PM PDT by BobL
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To: Tailgunner Joe

You may have a point...Drudge has an article about things falling apart with Russia. Here’s a piece of it:

“After the negotiation of the modest New START treaty in 2010, progress toward another round of nuclear warhead reductions is dead in the water and unlikely to be revived during President Barack Obama’s term in office.”

If the above plays out, we may all be THANKING PUTIN for stopping Obama from DISARMING. Russia is NOT the only player in the game anymore as China is building up quick. So, hopefully, we’re done with our nuke disarming for a while, at least.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/us-nuclear-deal-with-russia-fails-as-tensions-rise/article19899869/


17 posted on 08/03/2014 2:02:11 PM PDT by BobL
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Russia's Emperor Has No Clothes

Maybe Idiot Joe Biden will invite him to go skinny dipping.

18 posted on 08/03/2014 2:32:47 PM PDT by The Sons of Liberty (Deliver us, oh LORD, from the EVIL that has befallen our once Great GOD fearing land!)
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To: Mount Athos
First, Luhansk (or Lugansk) was included in the polling cities and you probably just overlooked it.

Second, it's important to remember that Luhansk and Donetsk Oblasts are, along with Kiev itself, the most densely populated regions in Ukraine.

The two regions combined have a population of roughly 7 million people, with Eastern Ukraine having a total population of 9 million people. Pew included Southern Ukraine in their regional definition of Eastern Ukraine, which has a combined population of 10 million people. So the affected provinces constitute around 7 million out of a combined regional population of 19 million, or roughly 7/19 = 37%

So let's assume that the entire 18% who want secession in Eastern Ukraine were located in Donetsk and Luhansk, and the rest of Eastern Ukraine was 100% for unity. Which is as impossibly misleading as the poll could theoretically be.

18/0.37 = 49% in favour of secession in Luhansk and Donetsk and 0% in favour of secession in the rest of Eastern Ukraine (Pew's definition) Yeah, right. Whatever true opinion is diluted in Pew's generalizations, it does not change the conclusions; that the majority of Eastern Ukrainians, including those in the Donbass, don't want to secede.

19 posted on 08/03/2014 2:48:14 PM PDT by Corporate Democrat
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To: Corporate Democrat

Wow, your math is WAY off.

Nice try, but you missed so many provinces defined as Eastern Ukraine by Pew. None of these were included in your calculations, they all should have been.

1) Kirovohrad million people

2) Poltava 1.6 million

3) Sumy 1.3 million

4) Kharkiv 2.7 million

5) You also estimated the population of Eastern Ukraine at 9 million, but you are way off, your own source says 14.5 million. So your calculations are off by an additional 5.5 million more people there.

6) Eastern + Southern + Pew’s additional provinces from central defined as eastern (1-4 above) =
14.5 million + 9.7 million (excludes crimea) + 6.6 million
Total of Pews “eastern” ukraine definition 30.8 million
Polled area (donetsk + luhansk) = 6.6 million

21%.

You’re claiming Pew’s poll of “Eastern Ukraine” tells us what the rebelling region thinks, when that region only represents 21% of their poll numbers.

You can’t say that with a straight face.

Of course it is ridiculous that Pew defined these provinces as Eastern Ukraine — but that just makes it more ridiculous and misleading for someone to say these results are indicative of what the rebelling region in the east thinks.

It’s really funny that you fell into the same error.


20 posted on 08/03/2014 3:29:48 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

Not even close, for one thing Obama will be gone in just over 29 months, when will the man who has accumulated 70 Billion dollars controlling Russia, leave?


21 posted on 08/03/2014 3:43:53 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: Mount Athos

1,2,3) Pew’s methodology states that they polled: Kiev, Kharkiv, Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa, Donetsk, Zaporizhia, Lviv, Kryvyi Rih, Lugansk, and Mikolayiv. This accounts for every oblast in the Eastern Ukraine total, with the exception of Kherson (my bad).

4)Kharkiv was included, check again.

5)The population of Eastern Ukraine was counted as 9 million not 14.5 million, because the two extra provinces included are counted twice in both sources(both in the East and the South Ukraine population totals) The provinces in question are Zaporizhia and Dnipropetrovsk.


22 posted on 08/03/2014 5:57:00 PM PDT by Corporate Democrat
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Who needs clothes if you have gonads?


23 posted on 08/03/2014 6:17:00 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Corporate Democrat

I’m reading the poll again and it’s clear they didn’t only poll the cities, they specifically talk about adjusting for rural vs urban proportions in the tally.
So the map Pew provided is the best information given on which areas were polled and counted in which region.

That means my 1,2,3 were correct and undercounted by you, and my 4 and 5 are wrong.

So the corrected total is
Eastern + Southern + Pew’s additional provinces from central defined as eastern (1-3 above) =
9.4 million + 9.7 million (excludes crimea) + 3.9 million
Total of Pews “eastern” ukraine definition 23 million
Polled area (donetsk + luhansk) = 6.6 million

Rebelling area percent of total polled “eastern Ukraine”=
28%. Noting again that some of these Pew provinces are really far from being Eastern Ukraine.

The poll also says they oversampled the east.
How much? It doesn’t say.

It’s good to correct for the population of the region, but oversampling means they had a smaller # of actual people polled in the east than proportionality would require.
That lowers the reliability of any statements made about the region based on the poll.

Conclusion: the poll doesn’t support any statements either way about opinion in the rebelling region.

Claims made based on it are misleading.


24 posted on 08/03/2014 6:54:59 PM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: hosepipe

India isn’t ruled by the majority — it’s parliamentary-style republic.


25 posted on 08/04/2014 12:13:28 AM PDT by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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To: Cronos

its a democracy therefore MOB RULE.. by mobsters


26 posted on 08/04/2014 1:19:18 AM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: hosepipe

India is officially the Republic of India — it’s a republic


27 posted on 08/04/2014 7:44:45 AM PDT by Cronos (Obama’s dislike of Assad is not based on Assad’s brutality but that he isn't a jihadi Moslem)
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