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Is ‘broken windows’ broken? Yes. It subjects minority and poor New Yorkers to harassment
NY Daily News ^ | 8/3/14 | STEVE ZEIDMAN

Posted on 08/03/2014 4:01:23 PM PDT by jimbo123

Is ‘broken windows’ broken? Yes It subjects minority and poor New Yorkers to harassment for no good reason.

While Eric Garner's tragic death in police custody, ruled a homicide Friday by the city's medical examiner, has prompted inquiries into police use of force and chokeholds, his passing should also compel a larger investigation into why the police felt compelled to arrest Garner, who they've said was selling loose cigarettes, in the first place.

That inquiry must start by looking with fresh, long-overdue skepticism at the signature "broken windows" theory that's supposedly one of the hallmarks of the city's crime decline.

Given the tremendous, mostly positive publicity it has engendered, it is surprising to many that this heralded theory of policing is a five-page essay published in The Atlantic in 1982. The article's theme is that untended minor criminal behavior leads inexorably to serious street crime. One broken window left unaddressed will soon yield a building filled with broken windows. As the authors famously wrote, "[T]he unchecked panhandler is, in effect, the first broken window."

Serious crime has decreased dramatically in New York City in the two decades that broken windows policing has been in force, yet the causal connection between that drop and huge numbers of arrests for minor transgressions is unproven to this day.

(Excerpt) Read more at nydailynews.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
Nonsense.
1 posted on 08/03/2014 4:01:23 PM PDT by jimbo123
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"..only Spartan women give birth to real men"




Thank God for the real men who founded this country,
and for the real men who continue to sustain it

Please join the 300 by donating $100

2 posted on 08/03/2014 4:02:17 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: jimbo123

Better to be robbed and raped by a minority, than to be judged by a caucasion.


3 posted on 08/03/2014 4:06:35 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: jimbo123
Who does the NYPD hate poor and black people? What a bunch of racists and poor......ists(?).

Who's running that city anyway? Probably a bunch of white, male, right-wing wacko, Sarah Palin worshippin', Bible-thumpin' Dittoheads.

4 posted on 08/03/2014 4:12:12 PM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: jimbo123

Every generation an idiot arises and tells people the way that worked didn’t work.


5 posted on 08/03/2014 4:15:30 PM PDT by Bogey78O (We had a good run. Coulda been great still.)
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To: jimbo123

The author of the article seems to be confusing two different policies: “broken windows” and “stop and frisk”. The “broken windows” policy has been extremely successful since the Guliani days, from what I understand, but “stop and frisk” sounds blatantly unconstitutional. Unless the police have probable cause or a warrant, stopping someone on the street (who is not on probation or some other such special condition) to frisk them is police state type stuff. It may work, but the trade-off is not worth it.


6 posted on 08/03/2014 4:20:52 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: jimbo123

- Back to NYC Mayor Davy Dinky’s 2200 murders in NYC a year...


7 posted on 08/03/2014 4:22:10 PM PDT by devolve (-Tell VLADIMER after my ERECTION I have more 90% more FLEXIBILITY - pre-1899 Colt SAA frames needed)
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To: jimbo123
The only policy they want to have in place:


8 posted on 08/03/2014 4:26:30 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy ("Harvey Dent, can we trust him?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBsdV--kLoQ)
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To: jimbo123

There is a silver lining to this train of thought. Just think of the exciting movies from the 70’s that featured NYC, like Taxi Driver, Death Wish, etc. We could be looking at some more contemporary action thrillers from the Big Apple in the next 10 years. On a more selfish side, I’m thinking of the increase in my property value a few miles to the west of the Hudson River. When the Bronx is Burning returns, the hipsters will be fleeing in droves, thus driving up demand for housing in the suburbs. I could see my split level reach seven figures if DeBlasio runs the place into the ground. What Lindsey and Beame did for my parents, DeBlasio could do for me.


9 posted on 08/03/2014 4:32:12 PM PDT by gusty
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To: ClearCase_guy

And let’s just let people break windows, do graffiti, sell drugs, sell whores, litter, and let homeless do #1 and #2 wherever they want, and sleep where ever they want. All of this to prove how liberal and tolerant we are. Unfortunately, that’s the logical end point of liberal polices. Literally stepping in people and waste and having the worst of human behavior in our faces all the time. All to prove that we are liberal and non-judgemental.


10 posted on 08/03/2014 4:33:29 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego (s)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

I remember NYC in the 70s. Hard to believe anyone thinks that an “anything goes” policy is good sense. But these are Liberals, so they’re not focused on any practical outcome. It’s all about how it makes them feel about themselves.


11 posted on 08/03/2014 4:37:53 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy ("Harvey Dent, can we trust him?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBsdV--kLoQ)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

As I stated above, what you accurately prophesy will be a bonanza for us homeowners in the NY suburbs. I do not see it as negative, I see housing prices skyrocketing in places like Bergen, Westchester, Rockland, and Fairfield Counties. A three bedroom ranch will be seven figures when the fleeing hipsters rush across the bridges. If I could, I would vote to re-elect DeBlasio for life, out of selfish reasons mind you.


12 posted on 08/03/2014 4:38:25 PM PDT by gusty
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To: jimbo123
Rest assured, NY Daily News. The NYPD is taking steps to ensure that citizens never have to witness such brutality again.

They've arrested the guy who shot the video.

Man Who Shot Chokehold Video Arrested"

13 posted on 08/03/2014 4:38:35 PM PDT by Texas Eagle (If it wasn't for double-standards, Liberals would have no standards at all -- Texas Eagle)
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To: jimbo123

The CUNY Prof who wrote this flippantly refers to the theory of broken windows as no more than some 5 page essay in the Atlantic. Just so happens that essay was written by James Q Wilson whose knowledge and understanding of modern policing is the foundation for most all of the strategy and tactics of the modern urban force. And he claims there is no evidence that broken windows is responsible for the remarkable decrease in NYC crime, yet he provides no alternate explanation.


14 posted on 08/03/2014 4:56:38 PM PDT by xkaydet65
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To: Dilbert San Diego
And let’s just let people break windows, do graffiti, sell drugs, sell whores, litter, and let homeless do #1 and #2 wherever they want, and sleep where ever they want. All of this to prove how liberal and tolerant we are. Unfortunately, that’s the logical end point of liberal polices. Literally stepping in people and waste and having the worst of human behavior in our faces all the time. All to prove that we are liberal and non-judgemental.

Oh, so you've been to San Francisco.

15 posted on 08/03/2014 4:56:51 PM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: jimbo123
not to mention the toll going through the court system takes on someone's ability to get to work, school or handle any other daily responsibilities.

How many of this group actually go to work every day?

16 posted on 08/03/2014 5:20:39 PM PDT by DUMBGRUNT
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To: jimbo123

Good response to this opinion piece by Michael Jenkins in the same issue of the Daily News.


17 posted on 08/03/2014 5:21:03 PM PDT by Salvey
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To: ClearCase_guy
I remember NYC in the 70s. Hard to believe anyone thinks that an “anything goes” policy is good sense.

My first experience in NYC was in 1973. A friend from grad school at North Carolina drove me up up to NYC to visit some friends from college. I asked him to go through Harlem. It was a war zone. Burned out cars, broken windows, trash everywhere. Having grown up in a southern Wisconsin farm town it was a place I could not understand.

18 posted on 08/03/2014 5:50:18 PM PDT by Senator_Blutarski
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To: jimbo123

Broken windows doesn’t subject anybody to harassment. Broken windows don’t ignore the small crimes that stack up and lead to a lawless area. Now dickhead cops could be using broken windows as their excuse, but that’s the theory’s fault.


19 posted on 08/03/2014 5:56:28 PM PDT by discostu (Villains always blink their eyes.)
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To: jimbo123

his crime wasn’t selling cigarettes...it was resisting arrest and endagering police officers.


20 posted on 08/03/2014 6:39:39 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: terycarl

Wrong. His crime was not paying a stupid tax on his own cigarettes. He was killed for that.


21 posted on 08/03/2014 6:42:44 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: devolve
- Back to NYC Mayor Davy Dinky’s 2200 murders in NYC a year...

Murders had already fallen by 30% from their peak when Dinkins (1990-1994) left office. Murder and violent crime in general have plunged nearly everywhere in the US since the early-mid 1990s.


22 posted on 08/03/2014 6:44:19 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: jimbo123

Two cops screw up an arrest by using an illegal restraining method and that means the broken windows theory is broken? That’s pretty stupid (liberal) reasoning. On one hand they credit broken windows for restoring order and making NY livable again but then argue that it is broken. Libs take what is proven to work and throw it out for something that is proven NOT to work.


23 posted on 08/03/2014 6:45:57 PM PDT by Brooklyn Attitude (Things are only going to get worse.)
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To: terycarl
his crime wasn’t selling cigarettes...it was resisting arrest and endagering police officers.

How was he endangering police officers?

24 posted on 08/03/2014 6:55:56 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: Ken H

Endangering police officers is added to every charge where you are not meek and mild.


25 posted on 08/03/2014 8:21:06 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Name your illness, do a Google & YouTube search with "hydrogen peroxide". Do it and be surprised.)
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To: Lurker
He probably stole the cigarettes from a bodega owned by a Korean.

And what were the police supposed to do when he refused to be handcuffed? Say have a nice day and walk away?

I saw the video. The officer taking him down was about half the guy's size and only maintained the hold long enough to get the guy on the ground.

If it's against the law to sell untaxed cigarettes it's against the law. Had the guy simply let the cops cuff him he would be alive today. But he somehow decided that complying was optional.

26 posted on 08/03/2014 8:37:22 PM PDT by hirn_man
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To: hirn_man

And the obvious...if you can whine that you can’t breathe, YOU CAN FLIPPIN BREATHE! Guy wanted a brawl, bit off more than he could chew. No pity.


27 posted on 08/03/2014 9:51:56 PM PDT by Fire_on_High (RIP City of Heroes and Paragon Studios, victim of the Obamaconomy.)
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To: Senator_Blutarski

- Try Chicago and Detroit...


28 posted on 08/04/2014 2:54:44 AM PDT by devolve (-Tell VLADIMER after my ERECTION I have more 90% more FLEXIBILITY - pre-1899 Colt SAA frames needed)
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To: Ken H

-

- No violent crime around here -

- At my front door my “Gun Lobby” has about a dozen .44’s and .45’s on the walls and handy for action -

- I do not call 911 -

-


29 posted on 08/05/2014 1:17:25 PM PDT by devolve (-Tell VLADIMER after my ERECTION I have more 90% more FLEXIBILITY - pre-1899 Colt SAA frames needed)
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To: devolve
- I do not call 911 -

I call 357 :)

30 posted on 08/05/2014 2:45:33 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: Ken H

-

- Nice .357 zingers

- .44-40, .44 Special, and .44 Magnum here - several .45 revolvers -

- I am converting an authentic original Colt 1851 Navy to a high strength steel .22lr cylinder with a full length .22 caliber 7-12 inch barrel liner that drops in and removes in seconds (not the dinky KIRST 2-1/2 inch Barrel liner) - something my daughter will enjoy on the range using smokeless powder without damaging a valuable antique firearm - yet display it in her “Gun Lobby” - no Black Powder cleanups

-


31 posted on 08/05/2014 5:29:10 PM PDT by devolve
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To: devolve

Very nice!


32 posted on 08/05/2014 7:11:20 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: Lurker
Wrong. His crime was not paying a stupid tax on his own cigarettes. He was killed for that.

wrong again, he might have been arrested and paid a fine for it, b ut his CRIME FOR WHICH HE DIED was resisting arrest. When a cop says that you are under arrest, STFU, co-operate, have your hearing, and go home....it happens hundreds of thousands times per day!!!

33 posted on 08/07/2014 8:13:25 PM PDT by terycarl
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