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Ukraine Claims a Victory and a Setback Against Pro-Russia Rebels
WSJ ^ | Aug. 4, 2014 | Anton Troianovski and Gregory L. White

Posted on 08/04/2014 8:56:24 AM PDT by 1rudeboy

Military Says It Took Back a Town Even as Some Troops Crossed Border With Russia

KIEV—Ukrainian forces were seeing mixed results in their battle against pro-Russian separatists in the east of the country on Monday, reporting they had moved closer to cutting off the separatist stronghold of Donetsk even as several hundred Ukrainian troops surrendered overnight across the Russian border.

Military spokesman Col. Andriy Lysenko told reporters in Kiev that Ukrainian forces had retaken Yasinuvata, a small city on the northern outskirts of Donetsk, closing off what he said was an important supply route for the separatists. A Twitter feed used by the separatists later denied the city had fallen, without elaborating.

While Ukraine's National Security and Defense Council released a battlefield map Monday showing Donetsk cut off from the rest of the separatist-held territory and the Russian border, Col. Lysenko told reporters that the city hadn't yet been completely isolated.

The government is calling on residents of rebel-held territory to leave their homes as the fighting intensifies and is providing humanitarian corridors for residents of Donetsk, Luhansk and Horlivka to flee safely to Ukrainian-held territory. City officials in Luhansk reported Monday that electricity, water and phone service had been cut off by fighting. Services in Donetsk remain operational, officials said, though shelling could be heard outside the city through the night.

Kiev's forces have made steady gains in recent days against separatist forces in the areas around Luhansk and Donetsk, but have sought to avoid a direct confrontation in those rebel stronghold cities. Defense Minister Valeriy Heletei, in an interview with the BBC's Ukrainian service aired Monday, said he was confident Kiev's forces would prevail but that retaking them would be difficult.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: mh17; ukraine
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1 posted on 08/04/2014 8:56:24 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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"Is freedom anything else than the right to live as we wish?
Nothing else."

~Epictetus




God bless this site, this Free Republic.
Please click the pic


2 posted on 08/04/2014 8:56:55 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: 1rudeboy

Not gonna subscribe, but what are the details regarding the surrender of Ukrainians ‘across the Russian border’? Seems unlikely they’d be so incautious as to cross the border voluntarily.


3 posted on 08/04/2014 8:59:48 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: skeeter

The story is that some troops remained to cover the withdrawal of other troops, and then surrendered to the Russians.


4 posted on 08/04/2014 9:01:29 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
Was there a Ukrainian incursion into Russia?
5 posted on 08/04/2014 9:03:51 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: 1rudeboy

I heard that they were forced into Russian territory after running out of ammunition. The Russkies are claiming they asked for asylum, but that’s what they claimed with the woman they kidnapped and brought over to Russia to face charges.


6 posted on 08/04/2014 9:05:45 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: 1rudeboy

Far northern suburb, about a mile east of Adviivda, (North of the airport) which has seen heavy fighting over the last ten days.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Yasynuvata,+Donetsk+Oblast,+Ukraine/@48.1285102,37.803598,13z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x40e0866157befe37:0xe06babbb5765d34


7 posted on 08/04/2014 9:06:46 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: skeeter

According to the stories I’ve read, no. “Incursion,” in a military sense, does not appear to apply here. But by all accounts, Ukrainian troops did cross the border in order to surrender.


8 posted on 08/04/2014 9:08:32 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: skeeter

The group of 438 that surrendered seems to be a part of the trapped 72nd Brigade that was surrounded near Isvarino, where there was big fighting a few weeks ago, when Kiev tried to retake the border checkpoints.

There have been rumors of negotiations with the units trapped in the “South Pocket” for several days, and this seems to be the first bunch. There are several tweets saying that another group will surrender today, and that Rostov Hospitals have been placed on alert to receive 50+ UK casualties.

There are several pics and vids of them crossing the border on now on Twitter and youtube.

Per Berezin’s Briefing, the Right Sector militia that was with them, as well as a group of Kolomoisky’s mercs, have not surrendered, and will probably end up fighting to the death.


9 posted on 08/04/2014 9:17:20 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: skeeter
Supposed pics of the surrendered troops, from Twitter: I think the second pic is from the group of twelve, incuding three officers, that surrendered at another border post on Saturday.
10 posted on 08/04/2014 9:26:07 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: 1rudeboy

Tweets now saying that Battalion Vostok has retaken control of Krasnogorovka, Staromihaylovka and Yasinovataya.

If this follows the normal pattern, Kiev will attack in the daytime, and the rebels retake them at night.


11 posted on 08/04/2014 9:52:30 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: 1rudeboy

Things are better than the public knows. Putin faces the tough decision of abandoning his moron supporters in Ukraine or charging ahead with the unfortunate draftee slobs required to enforce Putinism. Putinistas on FReeRepublic, no doubt, will find a sophistry to help them explain, as his unpaid apologist, why their genius, self-described conservative champion, who is willing to lie, cheat and steal to enforce a unique type off conservative values on to dissidents, is a mere opportunistic former KGB Colonel turned punk.


12 posted on 08/04/2014 10:06:43 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: elhombrelibre

“Putin faces the tough decision of abandoning his moron supporters in Ukraine”

You have been claiming stuff like that, for months, and it still hasn’t come to pass.


13 posted on 08/04/2014 10:22:41 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: elhombrelibre

Porkyshenko said he would end this uprising in a matter of days not weeks. And that was a couple of months ago.


14 posted on 08/04/2014 10:25:49 AM PDT by McGruff (Seems like some are more interested in protecting Ukraine's border than ours)
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To: tcrlaf

Well, seeing that the rebs have been beggin Putin for weeks to intervene, and all he’s done is send arms, vehicles, and meatshield recruits, you can say that he is in the process of “abandoning” them. We’ll just have to wait and see what happens next.


15 posted on 08/04/2014 10:35:05 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy

It seems Russian propaganda services used to put the feelers out some time ago trying to sell the story that “USA tried to drag Russia into war, but Putin was too smart to fall into the trap and didn’t order full scale invasion”, but frenzied Russian public weren’t going to buy it. Putin’s propaganda about child-crucifying AmeriKKKa-puppet homonazi junta has worked too well cutting off some ways he could use to back off.


16 posted on 08/04/2014 10:48:03 AM PDT by Krosan
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To: Krosan

“USA tried to drag Russia into war, but Putin was too smart to fall into the trap and didn’t order full scale invasion”

Boy where did you dream that up from. Please provide a link to that story. We don’t discuss fantasies here.


17 posted on 08/04/2014 10:57:05 AM PDT by McGruff (Seems like some are more interested in protecting Ukraine's border than ours)
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To: Krosan
I remember our neo-Bolsheviks assuring us that, "Russia is not invading Ukraine/Crimea, if it did, it would be over already."

Then Putin admitted he sent troops into Crimea. Boy, did they shut up quickly.

18 posted on 08/04/2014 10:59:21 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: tcrlaf; 1rudeboy

That makes sense, thanks. Its easy to see the difficulty in attempting to take back a border post and not have to cross borders in the process.


19 posted on 08/04/2014 11:39:20 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: 1rudeboy

Russia had a status of forces agreement with old Ukraine that permitted 20-25K of its troops to be deployed in Crimea. Those levels were never exceeded during the time period leading up to the reincorporation of the Crimean peninsula by Russia.

Kerry-hawks can whine about ‘little green men’ all they’d like, but the fact is the Russians were deployed in Crimea in compliance with an existing SOF.


20 posted on 08/04/2014 11:40:09 AM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: mac_truck
Right. And Putin admitted that he sent forces not governed by the agreement.

Nice evening on Red Square?

21 posted on 08/04/2014 11:41:30 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: mac_truck

Russian forces were supposed to stay in their base and not enact taking over a territory from Ukraine.

You try to bring the word “Kerry” here, but the whole world has been pretty clear about the events in Crimea. In the UN vote your corner had ONLY these 11 countries:

Russia, Armenia, Belarus, Cuba, North Korea, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Syria, Venezuela, Nicaragua and Bolivia.

No one else.


22 posted on 08/04/2014 11:49:13 AM PDT by Krosan
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To: Krosan
Russian forces were supposed to stay in their base and not enact taking over a territory from Ukraine.

Not true.

The status of forces agreement with old Ukraine allowed Russia to deploy forces over the entire Crimean peninsula depending on the circumstances, Perhaps the puppet fascists should have read the fine print because violent overthrow of the democratically elected government in Kiev was one of those circumstances.

As for the UN general assembly vote, when you add the countries that abstained from voting (including Israel) it was practically a tie. Lets not pretend the resolution was meaningful to anyone besides Kerry, Power, Obama, the floozies over at the State Dept. (oh..and you) either.

23 posted on 08/04/2014 12:23:59 PM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: McGruff; Krosan; 1rudeboy

He’s right, and he is wrong, too.
There was a video floating around on Youtube and Twitter a couple of weeks ago saying just that, but it wasn’t anything from a recognized media source.

That said, the rhetoric, claims, and lies coming out of Kiev show very clearly just how desperate they are for western intervention. And you also have to think back to how this all began, with the US State Department backing the most violent elements of the Maidan.


24 posted on 08/04/2014 12:29:45 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf

No, I’ve been denouncing Putin for months. I’ve not been so sure of the imminent defeat of his proxies until recently, which I’ve not shared until now. Things are tough for True Believing Putinistas like you, I know. Find another cult.


25 posted on 08/04/2014 12:32:35 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: McGruff

Well, I guess you and the rest of your cult can hang in their in the firm hope that Putin rides to the rescue of Russian chauvinism, coercive conservatism, and Putin’s cronies.


26 posted on 08/04/2014 12:34:53 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: elhombrelibre

Take another pill, and start paying attention to the actual events on the ground.

Why did the ACTUAL NAZI in charge of the ATO threaten to RESIGN, rather than implement the cease-fire that Putin and Merkel called for, and Poroshenko was reported to have agreed with??

There is a LOT of things happening in Kiev, and the NAZI ideologues (The actual Nazi’s that you folks say, over and over, don’t have any actual power), are the ones pushing for more blood now. (IMO, of course)


27 posted on 08/04/2014 12:36:55 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf

“There is a LOT of things happening in Kiev...” great quote. Ask your handlers to explain verb/subject agreement, comrade. Don’t try to tell me you’re a native English speaker, Boris.


28 posted on 08/04/2014 12:39:14 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: elhombrelibre

You have a fear of Putin that’s not healthy. They have shrinks for that you know.


29 posted on 08/04/2014 12:40:10 PM PDT by McGruff (Seems like some are more interested in protecting Ukraine's border than ours)
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To: 1rudeboy
And Putin admitted that he sent forces not governed by the agreement.

False.

Putin admitted the 'little green men' in Crimea were Russian military forces and that is all.

It was the puppet fascists in Kiev who said those forces were not governed by the SOF agreement, and who cares what that bunch of pathological liars have to say about it anyway?

30 posted on 08/04/2014 12:40:56 PM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: elhombrelibre

Dam Putinistas!


31 posted on 08/04/2014 12:42:45 PM PDT by McGruff (Seems like some are more interested in protecting Ukraine's border than ours)
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To: tcrlaf

BS. If the Ukrainian govt. got the same help from the West that the separatists are getting from Russia, it’d be as happy as a pig in a poke.


32 posted on 08/04/2014 12:43:01 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: McGruff

You damn right they do. The Soviets, your beloved ideological brethren, were always treating the opposition to statist, like Putin, as a mental illness. Congratulations, comrade Boris. Even the proverbial blind pig has found a nut.


33 posted on 08/04/2014 12:43:08 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: mac_truck

The annexation of Crimea, governed by the SOF agreement as well? LOLOL


34 posted on 08/04/2014 12:44:35 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: McGruff

I can get you a picture of the Bushes with many world leaders, but only a lowbrow boob like you thinks that proves they’re in love like Putin like you are, Boris.


35 posted on 08/04/2014 12:44:44 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: elhombrelibre

“in the firm hope that Putin rides to the rescue of Russian chauvinism,”

I’d tell you to pay attention, again, but it’s clear you don’t intend to. I’d tell you to try thinking, as well, but you have made it glaringly obvious, on many occasions, that you don’t do that, either.

If you had been paying attention, you would already realize that while Putin is supporting the pro-Russian rebels, he IS NOT giving them an overwhelming advantage, but parity.

If he wanted to, he could have already provided the rebels with the kind of stuff, and in the quantities, to have already ended this in a week, with the fall of Kiev.

This has become a Proxy War, with counter-move for counter-move, between the West/Obama and Russia. With Russia no longer providing many billions a year in subsidies to keep Ukraine afloat, they can easily afford what they are doing now.

Putin likely knows what many observers have noticed, as well, that this can’t go on forever.

Things are getting WORSE, not better for the average Ukrainian, as promised by the Maidan. When it gets cold, as it will very soon, the unrest we are already seeing is only going to grow.
(Kiev already announced today the cutoff of some hot-water supplies, to save NatGas.)

Kiev is broke, begging for more IMF Money, and is now confiscating saving and retirements to pay Kolomoisky for the fuel he is selling the UK Army, at above market prices.

IMO, things will come to a head, fast, sometime in the near future. Most likely right after the expected big attack on Donetsk fails.


36 posted on 08/04/2014 12:50:29 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: elhombrelibre

Hey this elhombrelibre guy scares me. I think he's a little loco.

37 posted on 08/04/2014 12:50:45 PM PDT by McGruff (Seems like some are more interested in protecting Ukraine's border than ours)
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To: elhombrelibre

“Don’t try to tell me you’re a native English speaker, Boris.”

Lol...
You’re a funny troll. Is/are. Are the GRAMMAR NAZI now, as well??


38 posted on 08/04/2014 12:51:59 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: McGruff
"You have a fear of Putin that’s not healthy. They have shrinks for that you know." ---- I think Elhombre fell asleep watching Sharnado2 last night, and these appeared in its dreams: You could say that EH has "Jumped the Shark".
39 posted on 08/04/2014 12:56:54 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf

Your cult worship shows.


40 posted on 08/04/2014 1:04:09 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: McGruff

Dude, you’re weird. Your love for Putin is reaching new levels.


41 posted on 08/04/2014 1:06:43 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: tcrlaf

Now Putin’s cabin boys are posting their “erotica” on FR.


42 posted on 08/04/2014 1:06:49 PM PDT by Dagnabitt (Amnesty is Treason. Its agents are Traitors.)
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To: Dagnabitt

They are. They’re like those guys in prison who fall in love with a bully.


43 posted on 08/04/2014 1:09:56 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: tcrlaf; mac_truck; McGruff
Boris??

Wait, I thought I was Boris, you were Ivan, and mac_truck and McGruff were both named Vlad ??!!.

Think maybe this is an act by people entertaining themselves by being absurd? I mean, come on, second grade name calling, chew up the Pravy BS, regurgitate, repeat . . . ?

44 posted on 08/04/2014 1:10:57 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: McGruff

Bush = Ahmadinejad
/Kremlin logic
45 posted on 08/04/2014 1:11:34 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Rashputin

How’re things in Moscow tonight, Putin?


46 posted on 08/04/2014 1:12:49 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: 1rudeboy

Except Putin is helping the mad mullahs with their nuclear program.


47 posted on 08/04/2014 1:14:21 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: elhombrelibre

lol...

Your problem is that I UNDERSTAND why you focus on Putin, and controlling the language of this event so much.

Pure propaganda for those not paying attention. I bet you had a blast mocking Sarah Palin, too.


48 posted on 08/04/2014 1:15:03 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf

You lose.


49 posted on 08/04/2014 1:16:22 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: elhombrelibre

“You lose.”

You’re right, I’m losing because I’m just laughing too damn hard at you.


50 posted on 08/04/2014 1:18:19 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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