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Russian-Backed Separatists Parade Ukrainian POWs
The Interpreter Magazine ^ | 8/24/14

Posted on 08/24/2014 8:58:11 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans

Russian-Backed Separatists Parade Ukrainian POWs

02:06 (GMT)

Russian-backed separatists took the occasion of Ukrainian Independence Day with military parades in Kiev to organize their own grisly parade in Donetsk of Ukrainian POWs they have captured.

The parading of POWs is a violation of the Geneva Convention.

Russia's state TV LifeNews and Rossiya 24 broadcast the parade; RT.com showed only "captured Ukrainian military hardware."

(More photos and details at link)


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: russia; ukraine
On the same link, there are photographs of Ukraine's celebrations marking their independence from the Soviet Union. It's quite interesting to compare the so-called "fascist junta" parade in Kyiv to the "freedom fighters" we see here.
1 posted on 08/24/2014 8:58:11 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...

> The parading of POWs is a violation of the Geneva Convention.


2 posted on 08/24/2014 9:27:16 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

Yes, but Vlad Pupin’ has a special dispensation from FReeRepublic regulars to do whatever he damn well pleases.

All you’ve got to do is claim the government is out of control, and you can put your equipment into other nations, and pay mercs to operate there.

Ah, I know of a government that is out of control.

Come on down Mr. Pupin’, you have patriots who will back your play here. Count on it.


3 posted on 08/24/2014 9:43:01 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (We'll know when he's really hit bottom. They'll start referring to him as White.)
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To: DoughtyOne

:’)


4 posted on 08/24/2014 10:01:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

A special effort should be made to crowdsource the identifications of each of the war criminals parading and assaulting the POWs. The identifications should then be used to prosecute, convict, punish, and perhaps execute, when justified, the identified war criminals.


5 posted on 08/24/2014 10:06:52 PM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: SunkenCiv

:^)


6 posted on 08/24/2014 10:09:01 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (We'll know when he's really hit bottom. They'll start referring to him as White.)
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To: SunkenCiv

as if Russia cares about the Geneva Convention


7 posted on 08/24/2014 10:24:24 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: WhiskeyX

wars are not fought in courtrooms


8 posted on 08/24/2014 10:25:13 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; All

After a little more research, it seems the prisoners “paraded” were “Paramilitaries”, (Right Sector “irregulars”, Kolomoisky “privateer” troops, and National Guard), and supposedly not covered by the Geneva Convention. No regular Ukrainian troops were paraded, supposedly.

The use of organized paramilitaries in conjunction with regular military forces is itself a violation of the Geneva Convention, as well.

Apparently this was supposed to be a “recreation” of Stalin’s 1944 march of German Prisoners through the streets of Moscow, with the streets washed behind them.
IMO, it was meant as an insult to Kiev, (especially Right Sector and Kolomoisky), and to anger them. (The older guy in the front row, left, is thought to be one of Kolomoisky’s commanders)

You can parse it any way you like, but the parading of distressed prisoners is against International norms, and both sides have done it, prime example being the Right Sectors Tweets showing photos of prisoners about to be executed summarily, in front of the trench they are to be buried in, as Amnesty pointed out.


9 posted on 08/24/2014 10:35:32 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf
After a little more research, it seems the prisoners “paraded” were “Paramilitaries”, (Right Sector “irregulars”, Kolomoisky “privateer” troops, and National Guard), and supposedly not covered by the Geneva Convention.

This man here has been identified, at the link, as a member of Ukraine's 51st mechanized brigade:

After a little more research

So far as I can tell, you didn't perform any research.

10 posted on 08/24/2014 11:00:36 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: tcrlaf
Right Sectors Tweets showing photos of prisoners about to be executed summarily, in front of the trench they are to be buried in, as Amnesty pointed out.

Post them, Russkie

11 posted on 08/24/2014 11:04:57 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Ukraine Today - I really like the video stream quality, it looks like a totally professional enterprise right from the start although it might be on a small budget.

http://www.uatoday.tv/


12 posted on 08/24/2014 11:06:39 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: GeronL

Yes, I “liked” them on my Facebook page. Let us hope they succeed.


13 posted on 08/24/2014 11:14:26 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

I just found them on FB too. I know they want to launch a second channel in Russian, according to their Wiki page. I hope they find success.

Now why can’t we get a conservative channel in the US doing a straight up internet TV channel like that?


14 posted on 08/24/2014 11:24:03 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: GeronL

There is internet only TV http://www.pjtv.com/


15 posted on 08/25/2014 12:17:16 AM PDT by Krosan
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To: Krosan

Not separate recorded video but an actual streaming channel with a schedule like this one:

Sort of a TEA Party Channel

http://wwitv.com/tv_channels/b6682-CPN-Live-TV.htm


16 posted on 08/25/2014 12:32:34 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: Krosan

Not separate recorded video but an actual streaming channel with a schedule like this one:

Sort of a TEA Party Channel

oops, the real direct channel site:

http://teapartylive.squarespace.com/


17 posted on 08/25/2014 12:33:57 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: GeronL

“wars are not fought in courtrooms”

Just as war is diplomacy by other means, so are military tribunals yet another means and an additional tool for diplomacy, retribution, and peacemaking.

The problem with today’s Western military tribunals is the way in which they have been robbed of their timely and lethal consequences for the war criminals.


18 posted on 08/25/2014 12:42:56 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

I did, about 3 weeks ago.
You called it propaganda.

Again with the “ruskie”, eh?


19 posted on 08/25/2014 1:46:16 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

I was talking about the guy on the left.
I have no idea about the rest, and I did say “Supposedly”.
Did you miss that part?

Again, this is what the Rebels on Twitter are claiming. It doesn’t mean it is true, anymore than the Kiev claim of someone being from the 51st is.


20 posted on 08/25/2014 1:46:16 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Post them, Russkie

Here is a link to a vid of just one of RS’s summary executions. (WARNING: GRAPHIC) This doesn’t even begin to cover the Mauriopal massacre, or the election day killings, or some of the events Amnesty International cited.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmPAwcKCMAAElKU.png:large

Why are you trying to deny this?


21 posted on 08/25/2014 1:46:16 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf
Here is a link to a vid

There is a conspicuous lack of video from that link, Russkie, which is just a picture. Googling it just now, I can find no source for it. All the images seem to go to Chinese websites where, naturally, I can't understand anything.

At this point I will point out that Russkies also like to stage photos to blame on the Ukrainians. For example, staged video of Ukrainian POWs, dressed up as Russian POWs, being tortured by Russkies, poorly dressed up as Ukrainians.

The Russkies have responded by claiming that the Ukrainians staged the staged video themselves. Story here:

http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.com/2014/08/evidence-of-pow-torture-and-trying-to.html

Another example, Russkie torturers, who have filmed themselves abusing Ukrainian POWs, also caught staging Nazi-Ukrainian photographs. As seen here:

http://ukraineatwar.blogspot.com/2014/08/graphic-ukrainian-pows-captured.html

22 posted on 08/25/2014 1:52:49 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: tcrlaf
I did, about 3 weeks ago.

Post it Russkie, let's see it.

23 posted on 08/25/2014 1:55:23 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
After a little more research, it seems the prisoners “paraded” were “Paramilitaries”, (Right Sector “irregulars”, Kolomoisky “privateer” troops, and National Guard)

I let this pass earlier since I was quick to post the photograph. But how is it that the National Guard is a "paramilitary," when it is part of the Ukranian army? Furthermore, even battalion Azov, which is a volunteer battalion and accused of being "Nazi," (although, even that American patriot recently killed in Ukraine was a member of it, and was no Nazi) is itself a part of the National Guard and has trained Ukrainian officers working within it. Its formation was authorized by the Ukrainian government itself. As for "privateers," who are these people that you are referring to?

24 posted on 08/25/2014 2:11:12 AM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

There is no exception from international standards of treatment as POWs. Any person captured fighting for a government in any conflict is just as much a POW whether he is a professional soldier, a conscript, a volunteer, a policeman, an irregular, a militiaman, a home guard, a guerilla, or even a foreign mercenary. As long as they are sanctioned by the government and answer to that government they are lawful combatants.


25 posted on 08/25/2014 2:37:54 AM PDT by buwaya
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

His task is to translate Kremlin propaganda into what Americans could buy. They were posting articles from notorious commie rags like The Nation and Counterpunch before they got scolded. In most cases it has meant he just has to insert Obama or Kerry into something and hope some fish will bite.

“There’s no argument over the choice between peace and war, but there’s only one guaranteed way you can have peace—and you can have it in the next second—surrender.”

In the passage above they’d try to insert Obama and Kerry and advocate for surrender.


26 posted on 08/25/2014 2:41:06 AM PDT by Krosan
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To: tcrlaf

Still with the Kremlin propaganda Russkie. They are POW’s and parading them is a violation of Geneva Convention.


27 posted on 08/25/2014 9:15:13 AM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

“But how is it that the National Guard is a “paramilitary,” when it is part of the Ukranian army?”

Nat Guard is not under Army Command, but under the personal command of Parubiy.

The Right Sector and Kolomoisky Militias do not answer to the Army, either. Even the Kiev-1 and -2 battalions are paramilitary, and outside of the Army chain of command.

That makes them “Paramilitary”.

Technically, the Kolomoisky battalions, and the other Oligarch run units would be considered “Privateers”, or “Mercenaries”, but the point is still the same.

This disunified command has caused MANY problems for Kiev, with different, often competing, political and military goals for each group really hurting the performance in the field. (an example being Lyashko’s grandstanding for the cameras)

I am really stunned that you still continue with the fiction about the Right Sector battalions, even the OSCE has begun calling them out, specifically.
http://us6.campaign-archive1.com/?u=b11aceda364f8f9afa6cadbbb&id=6b2a6319ba&e=3612d1ad47

(The OSCE also notes the growing number of anti-conscription demonstrations in Ukraine, as well.)


28 posted on 08/25/2014 10:13:55 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: free_life

“Still with the Kremlin propaganda Russkie.”

What is it with you and this “Russkie” BS, anyway?


29 posted on 08/25/2014 10:13:55 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf

I am not spreading Russkie bs, you are Russkie.


30 posted on 08/25/2014 3:10:19 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: buwaya
As long as they are sanctioned by the government and answer to that government they are lawful combatants.

Here is the relevant text. It is from Article 4 of the Third Geneva Convention:

Convention (III) relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Geneva, 12 August 1949. Prisoners of war

ARTICLE 4

A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:

(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.

(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, incuding those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:

(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;

(c) that of carrying arms openly;

(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

(3) Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.

(4) Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civilian members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany, who shall provide them for that purpose with an identity card similar to the annexed model.

(5) Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions of international law.

(6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.

B. The following shall likewise be treated as prisoners of war under the present Convention:

(1) Persons belonging, or having belonged, to the armed forces of the occupied country, if the occupying Power considers it necessary by reason of such allegiance to intern them, even though it has originally liberated them while hostilities were going on outside the territory it occupies, in particular where such persons have made an unsuccessful attempt to rejoin the armed forces to which they belong and which are engaged in combat, or where they fail to comply with a summons made to them with a view to internment.

(2) The persons belonging to one of the categories enumerated in the present Article, who have been received by neutral or non-belligerent Powers on their territory and whom these Powers are required to intern under international law, without prejudice to any more favourable treatment which these Powers may choose to give and with the exception of Articles 8 [ Link ] , 10 [ Link ] , 15 [ Link ] , 30, fifth paragraph [ Link ] , 58 [ Link ] -67, 92 [ Link ] , 126 [ Link ] and, where diplomatic relations exist between the Parties to the conflict and the neutral or non-belligerent Power concerned, those Articles concerning the Protecting Power. Where such diplomatic relations exist, the Parties to a conflict on whom these persons depend shall be allowed to perform towards them the functions of a Protecting Power as provided in the present Convention, without prejudice to the functions which these Parties normally exercise in conformity with diplomatic and consular usage and treaties.

C. This Article shall in no way affect the status of medical personnel and chaplains as provided for in Article 33 [ Link ] of the present Convention.

31 posted on 08/25/2014 3:21:49 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Yes indeed, thank you.

It is VERY broadly worded, and covers pretty much anyone recognized by the Ukrainian government as operating under their authority.


32 posted on 08/25/2014 4:42:12 PM PDT by buwaya
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To: buwaya

It is very broad but clause A 2 eliminates spies, terrorist organizations, etc.


33 posted on 08/25/2014 4:52:43 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: tcrlaf
Nat Guard is not under Army Command, but under the personal command of Parubiy.

You're full of it Russkie:

"The National Guard of Ukraine (NGU; Ukrainian: Національна гвардія України, Natsionalna hvardiya Ukrayiny) — is the reserve component of the Armed Forces of Ukraine under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of Internal Affairs"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_Ukraine

It is NOT an illegal, unofficial army, Russkie.

The Right Sector and Kolomoisky Militias do not answer to the Army, either. Even the Kiev-1 and -2 battalions are paramilitary, and outside of the Army chain of command.

Kiev-1 and 2 are special battalions under the control of the Interior Ministry, and, hence, the National Guard. The Azov battalion, whom you call a "Right Sector" outfit, was authorized by Ukraine and are under the control of the Interior Ministry. It has not been associated with any alleged human rights abuses. Who are these "Kolomoisky Militias" you are talking about? Provide sources. Does this mean that there aren't any local militias working independently? No, but this doesn't make the National Guard somehow an independent army under personal control of a civilian, and that it's okay for the Russkies, as a matter of standard operating policy or their entire military, to torture and humiliate Ukrainian POWs.

This disunified command has caused MANY problems for Kiev, with different, often competing, political and military goals

They seem to be doing pretty well Russkie. I don't think the Russkies intended to be fighting this war for so long.

I am really stunned that you still continue with the fiction about the Right Sector battalions, even the OSCE has begun calling them out, specifically.

The OSCE mentions only the Aidar battalion, made up mostly of natives from Donetsk, for alleged bribery and abductions (aka arrests) of alleged separatists. Not executions; nor does this extend to all of the battalions or the Ukrainian armed forces as a whole.

34 posted on 08/25/2014 5:16:07 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Straight Vermonter

And terrorist organizations are ?
Not that simple.

Otherwise one side could declare everything and everyone on the other side a terrorist organization and do what they please. This sort of thing done between states at war will lead nowhere good. May I remind you where this broad reading of the convention came from - the Franco-Prussian war of 1870, where the invading Prussians often shot French partisans/francs-tireurs whenever they captured them. This was considered, at the time, an outrage. The Germans persisted in this interpretation in WWI, and even more so in WWII (note the Russian partisans fared even worse under this interpretation), after which the language we see was very deliberately adopted.

This is not new, well understood, standard international law for nearly 70 years now.

Therefore the law is broad and should be followed.
If someone is suspected of war crimes they should be prosecuted in a legitimate court.


35 posted on 08/25/2014 5:35:51 PM PDT by buwaya
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To: buwaya
My point was simply that people that do not meet the requirements in clause A 2 are not afforded the protections of the convention.

For example a spy captured wearing civilian clothes is an illegal combatant.

36 posted on 08/25/2014 5:49:37 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

lol...
You try SO HARD to deny the facts already in evidence.
Why??


37 posted on 08/25/2014 6:04:43 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Thats correct. However that is not the claim being made, which is that many irregular/militia units fielded by Ukraine are illegitimate and not covered by the convention. And it seems the prisoners paraded in this case were captured in uniform (most are still wearing them), or were in fact civilians.


38 posted on 08/25/2014 6:23:04 PM PDT by buwaya
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