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ALLIES ENTER SAAR BASIN, DRIVE TOWARD RUHR; 400,000 MEN IN HUGE PUSH NORTH OF AACHEN (11/19/44)
Microfilm-New York Times archives, Monterey Public Library | 11/19/44 | Harold Denny, Gene Currivan, James MacDonald, Charles Hurd, Hanson W. Baldwin, Drew Middleton, more

Posted on 11/19/2014 4:19:31 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson

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THE NEWS OF THE WEEK IN REVIEW

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TOPICS: Extended News
KEYWORDS: history; milhist; realtime; worldwarii
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-40 next last
Free Republic University, Department of History presents World War II Plus 70 Years: Seminar and Discussion Forum
First session: September 1, 2009. Last date to add: September 2, 2015.
Reading assignment: New York Times articles and the occasional radio broadcast delivered daily to students on the 70th anniversary of original publication date. (Previously posted articles can be found by searching on keyword “realtime” Or view Homer’s posting history .)
To add this class to or drop it from your schedule notify Admissions and Records (Attn: Homer_J_Simpson) by freepmail. Those on the Realtime +/- 70 Years ping list are automatically enrolled. Course description, prerequisites and tuition information is available at the bottom of Homer’s profile. Also visit our general discussion thread.
1 posted on 11/19/2014 4:19:32 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Selections from West Point Atlas for the Second World War
Battle for Northern Entrance to Ormoc Valley, 16 November-14 December 1944 (from 32d Infantry Division website)
The Philippine Islands: Leyte Island and the Visayas, 1944 – Sixth Army Operations on Leyte and Samar, 17 October-30 December 1944
Northwestern Europe, 1944: 6th and 12th Army Group Operations, 8 November-15 December 1944
Northwestern Europe, 1944: 21st Army Group Operations, 15 September-15 December 1944
Eastern Europe, 1941: Russian Balkan and Baltic Campaigns – Operations, 19 August-31 December 1944
Northern Italy 1944: Allied Advance to Gothic Line, 5 June-25 August and Gains 29 August-31 December
China, 1941: Operation Ichigo, April-December 1944 and Situation 31 December
China-Burma, 1941: Third Burma Campaign – Slim’s Offensive, June 1944-March 1945
2 posted on 11/19/2014 4:20:26 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
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The Nimitz Graybook

3 posted on 11/19/2014 4:21:38 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
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Winston S. Churchill, Triumph and Tragedy

4 posted on 11/19/2014 4:22:18 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: r9etb; PzLdr; dfwgator; Paisan; From many - one.; rockinqsranch; 2banana; henkster; meandog; ...
British Join Push – 2-3
Nimble Footwork along the Road to Germany (photo) – 3
German Guns Blown to Bits by Air-artillery Teamwork (Denny) – 4
Blasts Rock City (Currivan) – 4-5
3 Armies in Drive along 30-Mile Line (MacDonald) – 5-6
An American Beauty ‘Blossoms’ in a War Theatre (photo) – 6
War News Summarized – 6
Wedemeyer Gives Plan to Chiang for Defeat of Japanese in China – 7
Trapped Japanese Pressed on Leyte – 7
They Survived Second Battle of the Philippine Sea (photo) – 8
Belgium Abandons Neutrality Policy – 9
Potts School Aids Ill Service Folk – 9
Veterans Intelligence (Hurd) – 10
The Texts of the Day’s Communiques on the War – 11-13
The Groaner Listens as The Voice Talks (photo) – 13

The News of the Week in Review
The Allied Winter Drive Opens for the Gateways to the Reich (map) – 14
Six-Army Attack – 15-16
Other Fronts – 16-17
Abroad – 17-18
Quotations – 19
Fifteen News Questions – 20
Allies Strike for Final Victory in the West (Baldwin) – 21-22
“Dreaming of a ‘White Christmas!’” (cartoon) – 22
Winter to Bring Peak of Strategic Bombing (Middleton) – 22-23
Battle of the Reich: 1944 (cartoon) – 23
The Battle of Leyte Enters Its Final Phase (map) – 24
Japan Chooses Leyte for an All-Out Fight (by Frank L. Kluckhohn) – 25
“ – and Equality and Fraternity” (cartoon) – 26
Answers to Fifteen News Questions – 26

5 posted on 11/19/2014 4:23:40 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1944/nov44/19nov44.htm#

French reach Swiss border
Sunday, November 19, 1944 www.onwar.com

French tanks reach the Swiss border [photo at link]

On the Western Front... Allied forces advance all along the line. British 12th and 7th Corps (parts of British 2nd Army) gain ground near Venlo. Forces of US 9th Army defeat a counterattack by German forces and occupy Geilenkirchen, north of Aachen. US 3rd Army completes the encirclement of Metz. Farther south, French 1st Army forces reach the outskirts of Belfort as well as the Swiss border north of Basle.

In Albania... Partisan forces commanded by Hodja enter Tirana after German forces pull out of the city.

In the Philippines... US Task Force 38 continues air strikes against targets on Luzon and shipping in Manila Bay. Japanese losses are claimed to be 1 cruiser and 3 other vessels.

In Washington... It is estimated that the cost of the war is now about $250 million per day.


6 posted on 11/19/2014 4:24:50 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.etherit.co.uk/month/10/19.htm

November 19th, 1944 (SUNDAY)

UNITED KINGDOM: Douglas (Model DC-3A-456) C-47A-80-DL, msn 19512, USAAF”>USAAF serial number 43-15046, crashes at Lewes, Sussex, England, at 1510 hours local. The aircraft strikes a hill while flying in low overcast, explodes and burns; 25 of the 30 people aboard are killed.

WESTERN EUROPE: Over 450 USAAF”>USAAF Ninth Air Force A-20 Havocs, A-26 Invaders, and B-26 Marauders bomb storage depots, bridge, junction, ordnance depots, and defended positions in or near ten German towns and cities; fighters escort the bombers, carry out patrols, and fly armed reconnaissance hitting rail facilities and other targets over western German areas including Euskirchen, Trier, Saarbrucken, Julich, and Cologne; the IX, XIX, and XXIX Tactical Air Commands support the US VII, XII, XIX, and XX Corps areas east of Aachen and near Hurtgen, Germany, between Metz, France and Saarlautern, Germany and near Sarreguemines, France.
NETHERLANDS: The British XII and VII Corps advance near Venlo.

FRANCE: French Army attacks, in the south, reach Belfort and cross into Switzerland north of Basel.

In the U.S. Third Army area, XX Corps closes circle around Metz as the 90th, 95th, and 5th Infantry Divisions join hands. The 90th Infantry Division concludes its operations against Metz and halts upon order along the Nied River: the 357th Infantry Regiment drives to the Nied west of Boulay-Moselle; the 359th plugs a German escape route at Les Etangs; the Reconnaissance Troop establishes contact with 5th Infantry Division. Task Force Bacon, 95th Infantry Division, is clearing the streets in the northeast part of Metz; the 377th and 378th Infantry Regiments drive into Metz from the northwest, crossing the Moselle River. The 5th Infantry Division continues to clear the southern part of Metz The 10th Armored Division, in order to speed their drive to the Sarre River, withdraws Combat Command A’s Nied bridgehead, during the nigh of 19/20 November, and blows the bridges. In the XII Corps area, Combat Command B of 6th Armored Division begins attack through the 137th Infantr y Regiment of 35th Infantry Division and, assisted by the 137th, takes Bertring and Gros Tenquin; Virming falls to 320th Infantry Regiment. The 26th Infantry Division commits its full strength to attack against the Dieuze-Bonestroff line, meeting stiff opposition from German forces covering a general withdrawal, which is accomplished during the night of 19/20 November: the 104th and 101st Infantry Regiments fight in vain for Marimont and Marimont Hill (Hill 334) during the day but move forward as the Germans withdraw after nightfall; the 328th Infantry Regiment, reinforced by elements of the 4th Armored Division, is committed against Dieuze arid, upon the German withdrawal, enters together with the 2d Cavalry Group and takes the bridge intact. Combat Command A, 4th Armored Division, enters the battle in the zone of the 26th Infantry Division, recapturing Rodalbe and helping the 320th Infantry Regiment of 35th Infantry Division to take Virming.

In the U.S. Seventh Army’s XV Corps area, the 44th Infantry Division, pushing toward Sarrebourg, takes Ibigny and St Georges. The German line along the Vezouse River in the Blmont-Cirey area collapses as the 79th Infantry Division completes the capture of Fremonville and Combat Command R, French 2d Armored Division, takes Cirey. To exploit the breakthrough, Combat Command L begins a drive to secure Saverne Gap, through which the advance can be continued to Strasbourg. The 79th Infantry Division, instead of helping the 44th Infantry Division take Sarrebourg, is to exploit the success of French armor and protect the southern flank of the corps. The VI Corps closes along the Meurthe River and prepares to attack across it. The 100th Infantry Division, already east of the Meurthe River, continues to advance in the Raon area, the 398th Infantry Regiment pushing south across the Plaine River to gain control of the road southeast from the town and the 397th Infantry working on a quarry strongpoint at the edge of town. The Division Reconnaissance Troop and the 117th Reconnaissance Squadron advance to Badonviller without opposition.

In the French First Army’s I Corps area, the 2d Moroccan Division, supported by the 5th Armored Division, reaches Chalonvillars, a suburb of Belfort. The 1st Armored Division tries unsuccessfully to open a route to Dannemarie so that 5th Armored Division may drive on Cernay via Fontaine; continuing reconnaissance eastward along three routes on the right flank, gets elements to the Rhine River at Rosenau at 1830 hours. The French are thus the first of the Allied forces to reach the Rhine, but on a narrow front in a sector where the road net is too poor to support an advance in strength. Among the villages taken, Seppois is the first in Aisace to be recovered by the French.

NETHERLANDS: The British XII and VII Corps advance near Venlo.

GERMANY: Allied troops enter the Rhineland, and US tanks reach the Saar river.

In the British Second Army’s XXX Corps area, 334th Infantry Regiment of the U.S. 84th Infantry Division continues to clear the Prummern area and tries in vain to take Mahogany Hill; the 333d Infantry attacks up the Wurm River valley toward Wurm, taking Geilenkirchen and Sueggerath. In the XII Corps area, the 51st Division takes Helden and Panningen and makes contact with the 15th Infantry Division of VIII Corps.

In the U.S. Ninth Army’s XIX Corps area, Combat Command B of the 2d Armored Division repels determined counterattack against Apweiler. Combat Command A, reinforced by a battalion of the bn of the 119th Infantry Regiment, 30th Infantry Division, attacks in two columns from Setterich and Puffendorf toward a spur of high ground between Ederen and Frelaldenhoven, one column reaching positions near Freialdenhoven. The 29th Infantry Division clears the rest of Setterich and an antitank ditch east of the village and then advances to take the villages of Duerboslar and Schleiden. The 30th Infantry Divisionbs 117th Infantry Regiment, with powerful support of heavy weapons, easily takes St Joeris and Kinzweiler.

In the U.S. First Army’s VII Corps area, the 104th Infantry Division mops up and shifts its main weight of attack to the Eschweiler-Weisweiler industrial complex north of the Inde River. On the north flank of the 1st Infantry Division, the 47th Infantry Regiment column drives northwest along Hamich Ridge from Hill 232 to the base of Hill 187; the 16th Infantry Regiment finishes clearing Hamich and pushes to the southern part of Bovenberger Wald; the reserve regt, the 18th Infantry, begins an attack in the center of the division line toward Langerwehe. previously the objective of the 26th Infantry Regiment, reaching the vicinity of Wenau; the 26th Infantry, whose objectives are now Juengersdorf and Merode, commits reinforcements and advances to positions less than 500 yards (457 meters) from Laufenburg Castle. The 4th Infantry Division suspends eastward attacks in order to consolidate and try to close gap between the 8th and 22d Infantry Regiments. In the V Corps area, Li eutenant General Courtney Hodges orders the corps to begin offensive on 21 November instead of waiting as planned until VII Corps has broken through the German defenses west of the Roer River in order to assist VII Corps.

In the U.S. Third Army area, XX Corps area, Combat Command B, 10th Armored Division, is meeting stiffer opposition as it approaches Merzig and the Saar River.

AUSTRIA: USAAF”> USAAF Fifteenth Air Force B-24 Liberators and B-17 Flying Fortresses bomb four targets in Vienna and targets in five cities. In Vienna, 143 bomb the Winerhafen oil storage facility, 98 hit the Lobau oil refinery, 52 attack the Schwechat benzine synthetic oil refinery and 56 bomb the Vosendorf oil refinery; three aircraft are lost. Other targets are: 54 bomb the Hermann Göring benzine synthetic oil refinery at Linz, 45 hit Horsching Airfield, 13 attack the aircraft engine plant at Wiener Neudorf and one each bomb the marshalling yard at Leoben and a railroad bridge.

CZECHOSLOVAKIA: One USAAF”>USAAF Fifteenth Air Force bomber bombs a railroad, a target of opportunity.

HUNGARY: USAAF”> USAAF Fifteenth Air Force bomber attack two targets: 24 aircraft bomb the marshalling yard at Gyor and six bomb the marshalling yard at Kesztheley.

BALTIC SEA: U-481 sank Soviet barge 112600 (No 4532).

ALBANIA: Partisan fighters led by Enver Hoxha liberate Tiranë.

ITALY: Fog and low clouds force cancellation of USAAF”>USAAF Twelfth Air Force missions against western Po Valley targets and limit fighter-bombers to a midday attack on rail lines, guns, troop concentrations, motor transport, and other military targets in and near the battle area south of Bologna.

During the night of 19/20 November, USAAF”>USAAF Twelfth Air Force A-20 Havocs attack Po River crossings, airfields and lights in the Po Valley.

YUGOSLAVIA: USAAF”> USAAF Fifteenth Air Force bombers hit two targets: 23 bomb the marshalling yard at Maribor and one hits the marshalling yard at Sisak.

RAF bombers of No. 205 (Heavy Bomber) Group hit four targets during the day: 65 bomb troop concentrations at Podgorica, 42 attack a pontoon bridge at Visegard, 15 hit troop concentrations at Sjenica with the loss of two aircraft, and 15 bomb troop concentrations at Novi Pasar.

GREECE: Land Forces Greece and Military Liaison Greece are integrated as Headquarters Land Forces and Military Liaison Greece, under Lieutenant General Sir Ronald Scobie, General Officer Commanding British Troops in Greece.

BURMA: British troops launch Operation Extended Capital, aiming to sweep towards Rangoon and Meiktila on a wide front.

In the British Fourteenth Army’s IV Corps area, the Indian 19th Division begins crossing the Chindwin River at Sittaung.

Fifteen USAAF Tenth Air Force P-47 Thunderbolts support ground forces attacking Bhamo and fighting in the Pinwe area while 36 P-47s hit enemy concentrations at Man Mao, Sekang, and Manlu.

USAAF Fourteenth Air Force B-25 Mitchells bomb bridges at Tingka and Wan Lai-Kam.

CHINA: Three USAAF”> USAAF Fourteenth Air Force B-24 Liberators bomb Samah Bay docks on Hainan Island. Ten B-25 Mitchells damage two buildings north of Chefang; eight P-40s and P-38 Lightnings hit targets of opportunity south of Tingka and Chefang; 19 P-40s blast troops and river, rail, and road traffic in the Hankow area; and 27 P-40s, P-51 Mustangs, and P-38s hit numerous targets of opportunity in the Mangshih area.

NETHERLANDS EAST INDIES: USAAF Far East Air Forces B-25 Mitchells hit Sidate, Mapanget, and Borebore on Celebes Island while other B-25s and A-20 Havocs hit airfields and shipping in the Ceram Island-Ambon Island-Boeroe Island area.

COMMONWEALTH OF THE PHILIPPINES: The 77th Infantry Division, en route to Leyte, is ordered to release a detachment of some 1,200 men, upon landing, for a projected operation against Mindoro.

In the U.S. Sixth Army’s X Corps area on Leyte, the 1st Battalion of the 128th Infantry Regiment, 32d Infantry Division, continues efforts to drive the Japanese from Corkscrew Ridge. The 1st Battalion of the 34th Infantry Regiment, still under heavy fire on Kilay Ridge, withdraws 100 yards (91 meters) north, abandoning the knoll on the south.

USAAF Far East Air Forces B-24 Liberators bomb Alicante on the northeast of Negros Island and Palompon on Leyte Island while P-47 Thunderbolts hit the Valencia, Mindanao Island, and Ormoc, Leyte Island areas. On Mindanao Island B-24 Liberators hit Libby Aerodrome while others bomb airfields at Sasa.

One USAAF Seventh Air Force B-24 from Angaur Island, Palau Islands, Caroline Islands, bombs Sanbon Field near Legaspi on Luzon Island.

Carrier-based aircraft of Task Force 38 attack Japanese shipping off Luzon, in addition to airfields on that island. Navy carrier-based planes attack a convoy 10 nautical miles (19 kilometers) off San Fernando, Luzon, sinking a merchant cargo ship and damaging two escorting submarine chasers.

BONIN AND VOLCANO ISLANDS: Five USAAF Seventh Air Force B-24 Liberators from Guam, on armed reconnaissance over Iwo Jima and the Bonin Islands, bomb airfields on Iwo Jima while 15 hit shipping at Chichi Jima and Haha Jima.

NEW GUINEA: In Dutch New Guinea, elements of Task Group 78.14 land Army troops, a company of the 124th Infantry Regiment, 31st Infantry Division, U.S. Eighth Army, on Asia Island, 100 nautical miles (185 kilometers) west of Sansapor. The landing is supported by USAAF”>USAA Far East Air Forces B-25 Mitchells and A-20 Havocs.

PACIFIC OCEAN: USN destroyer escorts USS Conklin (DE-439) and McCoy Reynolds (DE-440) sink Japanese submarine HIJMS I-37 about 49 nautical mile (90 kilometers) north-northwest of Koror, Palau Islands, Caroline Islands in position 08.07N, 134.16E.

U.S.A.: Washington: The cost to the US of fighting the war is estimated at $250 million a day.

Looking for ways to fund World War II, President Franklin D. Roosevelt announces the 6th War Loan Drive today. The Loan Drive floods the market with war bonds intended to meet Roosevelt’s goals of “immediately” raising US$14 billion (US$155.35 billion in year 2005 dollars) for the war.

Submarine USS Catfish launched.


7 posted on 11/19/2014 4:26:28 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.astronautix.com/sites/v2bbt500.htm

1944 November 19 - . 09:30 GMT - . Launch Site: V-2 Battery SS Abt 500. LV Family: V-2. Launch Vehicle: V-2.

V-2 combat launch from Hellendoorn to Antwerp - . Nation: Germany. Summary: Hellendoorn, rocket fired, target Antwerp, impacted in Antwerp, Mechelschesteenweg, 7 houses destroyed, 7 casualties and 28 injured..


8 posted on 11/19/2014 4:26:52 AM PST by abb ("News reporting is too important to be left to the journalists." Walter Abbott (1950 -))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
"smashed deep into the Belfort Gap, on the historic invasion highway to southwest Germany"

I have a business acquaintance, and friend, who now resides in the UK. He has a thin white line on his arm, where he had Hitler's concentration camp tattoo cut off. He received his tattoo at age 14.

He was sitting at a restaurant one day along the Champs Elysees. He commented: "Do you know why France has so many wide, tree lined avenues?" After no response, his answer: "So the German armies can march in the shade."

It looks like one can march both ways.

9 posted on 11/19/2014 5:20:24 AM PST by norwaypinesavage (The Stone Age did not end because we ran out of stones)
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To: abb

I wonder if that site uses “casualties” to mean “killed.”


10 posted on 11/19/2014 5:44:05 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
The American offensive north of Aachen continues. The Germans commit 9th Panzer and 15th Panzergrenadier Divisions in a counter attack. One other thing to notice in the upper right corner, is the HQ of "Gruppe von Manteuffel" which is formed from the HQ of 15th Army transferred from Holland. Gruppe von Manteuffel is a way of keeping the allies unaware of the transfer of 15th Army to the sector held by 5th Panzer Army. It takes the name of the commander of 5th Panzer Army to conceal the transfer of 5th Panzer Army HQ south to the Ardennes. Even at the height of this very heavy American offensive, the Germans are still carrying out their preparations for the Ardennes Offensive.

19 Nov 44 Aachen 1 photo 19Nov44Aachen1_zps735cdf69.jpg

Here is the southern wing of that same major offensive.

19 Nov 44 Aachen 2 photo 19Nov44Aachen2_zpsc6c74d94.jpg

Patton's Third Army approaches the Saar region. You will note that the three mobile formations of German First Army in this sector, 17th SS Panzergrenadier Division, 21st Panzer Division, and Panzer Brigade 106, have a combined total of exactly two Panther tanks and one assault gun between them.

19 Nov 44 Metz 1 photo 19NOV44Metz1_zpsf2f3e577.jpg

The southern wing of Patton's advance against 11th Panzer Division, which actually has 11 tanks and assault guns. The German map claims to have repulsed and American assault and taken 250 Americans as POWs. I'm not so sure this is accurate.

19 Nov 44 Metz 2 photo 19NOV44Metz2_zpsa5a4cfde.jpg

11 posted on 11/19/2014 5:55:58 AM PST by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

The brief article on the front page regards the ait attack on the Jap fleet at Brunei Bay Caught my attention.

The survivors of Adm Kurita’s force are there. I checked The Tabulated Records of Movement at http://www.combinedfleet.com/senkan.htm for the Yamato, Kongo,Haruna and Nagato and found no mention of any damage in the records.

The air strike is called out as happening on November 16, 1944 with 40 B-24s and 15 P-38 as escorts.

If any of the folks are interested in the Imperial Japanese Navy that website, http://www.combinedfleet.com is probably the best source on the web for information.

And a time for the obligatory note of thanks for the posts. I have some idea of how much time you put in to do these and it’s is much appreciated.

Regards

alfa6 ;>}


12 posted on 11/19/2014 6:03:18 AM PST by alfa6 (Freedom is not free Free men are not equal Equal men are not free)
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To: alfa6
I have some idea of how much time you put in to do these and it’s is much appreciated.

Thanks. No one will be happier than Mrs. Homer when VJ Day finally arrives.

13 posted on 11/19/2014 6:12:45 AM PST by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

But then we get to start over in 1936, don’t we?:)


14 posted on 11/19/2014 6:43:56 AM PST by Technocrat (Romney-Ryan 2012 No I'm not changing my Sig)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson

Have you tried telling Mrs Homer that it helps to keep you out from underfoot:-)

Regards

alfa6 ;>}


15 posted on 11/19/2014 7:19:27 AM PST by alfa6 (Freedom is not free Free men are not equal Equal men are not free)
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To: Homer_J_Simpson
Do Your Xmas Shopping NOW! (Page 9 NYT 11/19/44)

I guess taking "Christ" out of Christmas and crazily shopping for Christmas in the fall started way back.

16 posted on 11/19/2014 7:35:35 AM PST by PapaNew (The grace of God & freedom always win the debate in the forum of ideas over unjust law & government)
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To: henkster; Homer_J_Simpson; colorado tanker

Some questions about the upcoming major German counterattack in the Ardennes.

Is there any evidence that anyone on the Allied side had a whiff of the planned German counterattack? If not now, is there evidence someone later thought this would happen before the actual counterattack but was ignored?

Why the Ardennes? Was that for some reason a region not covered by the Allied push?

Is there evidence the Germans actually had a chance of winning this thing if the Allies with the critical aid of Allied reinforcements had not successfully repelled the counterattack? Even if the Germans had managed to punch through, couldn’t the Allies have closed in around the German offensive creating a huge trap, especially with the help of Allied air superiority? Maybe it was doomed from the start.


17 posted on 11/19/2014 7:58:38 AM PST by PapaNew (The grace of God & freedom always win the debate in the forum of ideas over unjust law & government)
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To: Technocrat; Homer_J_Simpson

Yeah, Homer, will you be doing this again starting 2020 for the 80th anniversary?


18 posted on 11/19/2014 8:02:54 AM PST by PapaNew (The grace of God & freedom always win the debate in the forum of ideas over unjust law & government)
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To: PapaNew

In reply to your questions.

1) A few folks in the US Army had some glimmers of a German counter-offensive. Most of those few thought it would be north of Aachen. In short the Allied Command staff were convinced that the Germans were just about finished.

2) The Germans had very good luck attacking through the Ardennes in 1940, no? Also the Us was using it as a “Rest Area” for worn out units to rest and refurbish. Also as a place for new divisions to get some experience. There were only 4 divisions covering a front of close to 100 miles or so.

If you were Hitler where would you attack at?

3) IIRC henkster touched on this a few weeks back. The Germans were pretty much out of options by this time. The 20m or so division that were used in the Bulge would not have made much difference on the Russian front, they would have been chewed up and spat out in short order.

Did the Germans have a chance, yes but it was a long shot. Not intended as a slam on the French but the GI’s were not French! The opening days of the Ardennes offensive were replete with small unit actions that confounded the Germans at every turn. A lot of GIs bugged out and a lot were captured but a lot also stayed and fought. Sometimes they bought an hour or two or maybe even a day. The majority of the Germans 1st day goals were not met until day 3 or later of the offensive.

Look for a long post on the Intel failure come next month.

Regards

alfa6 ;>}


19 posted on 11/19/2014 10:15:18 AM PST by alfa6 (Freedom is not free Free men are not equal Equal men are not free)
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To: PapaNew

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3223424/posts

see comment #19


20 posted on 11/19/2014 10:26:24 AM PST by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
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