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Obama twisting Senate Dem arms for TPA test vote today as Cruz switches to No
Hot Air ^ | June 23, 2015 | Ed Morrissey

Posted on 06/23/2015 10:15:22 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

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To: P-Marlowe; 2ndDivisionVet


Well first you would have to post an honest question P-Marlowe. An honest question would be as follows:

So which Ted Cruz are you supporting 2DV?

The Ted Cruz who voted for the first version of TPA or the Ted Cruz who voted against the second version of TPA?
And the correct answer would be both, that is if you are a constitutional, ethical and principled conservative, that is.
61 posted on 06/23/2015 2:59:27 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: P-Marlowe; 2ndDivisionVet
So which Ted Cruz are you supporting 2DV?

The Ted Cruz who voted for TPA or the Ted Cruz who voted against TPA?


Well first you would have to post an honest question P-Marlowe. An honest question would be as follows:

So which Ted Cruz are you supporting 2DV?

The Ted Cruz who voted for the first version of TPA or the Ted Cruz who voted against the second version of TPA?
And the correct answer would be both, that is if you are a constitutional, ethical and principled conservative, that is.
62 posted on 06/23/2015 2:59:52 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: SoConPubbie
“Yea, it seems like name-calling, assumption-based accusations with no proof, has become the norm for many FReepers.

Sadly I was and am still surprised by this behavior.”

Keep up the good work SoConPubbie. Not all of us believe their misinformation.

63 posted on 06/23/2015 3:19:57 PM PDT by IAMNO1 (Enough with the divisions. Lets get somebody in there who'll fix this mess.)
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To: SoConPubbie; xzins
So which Ted Cruz are you supporting 2DV? The Ted Cruz who voted for the first version of TPA or the Ted Cruz who voted against the second version of TPA? And the correct answer would be both, that is if you are a constitutional, ethical and principled conservative, that is.

You guys can't admit when you are wrong, can you?

The fact of the matter is that Ted Cruz saw that his position on TPA caused a firestorm among his closest followers. His Phones, e-mail, Facebook page have all been inundated with calls from people who begged him to change his mind on TPA, not because of some silly so-called amendments, but because he discovered that he screwed the pooch.

Now you can claim that he was right to support the first TPA and right to not support the second, but the fact is he was wrong on TPA and that TPA is just bad for America, no matter which version they put before the Senate.

If what you say is true, then maybe he isn't the right candidate at all.

If what you say is true, then maybe I won't get back on the Cruz bandwagon.

64 posted on 06/23/2015 4:42:34 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Saying that ISIL is not Islamic is like saying Obama is not an Idiot.)
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To: P-Marlowe; Hostage

You said: “Now you can claim that he was right to support the first TPA and right to not support the second, but the fact is he was wrong on TPA and that TPA is just bad for America, no matter which version they put before the Senate.”

So you’re an isolationist/protectionist. Essentially you’re exploiting the situation to prop up anti-free trade propaganda behind the guise of the other issues.

Hostage’s explanation is not rocket science and explains precisely what happened. The TPA that Ted Cruz voted for was radically different from what came back from the House. Cruz supports the principles of TPA and most conservatives who are pro-trade would too. There were alarms which sounded before the first vote that Cruz weighed the pros/cons and did not think Obama was getting any more power and that some of the claims of others were exaggerated and hidden behind the guise of trade protectionalism.

But Cruz doesn’t live under a rock and started to see the same stuff we all did, especially after what was coming out of the House will all the back-door deals. This wasn’t the principles he supported and promptly voted it down. I wasn’t surprised he voted “No” today and it only reconfirmed my confidence and trust in him to make good decisions.

By admitting your opposition to ANY TPA, you are putting yourself at odds with the likes of Mark Levin, whom although he is steadfastly against any TPA while Obama is in office, said today he would support a “clean” free-trade (TPA) that was truly a trade bill only and negotiated by a conservative President in the WH. If you don’t even support that idea, then you obviously don’t understand the concepts behind free trade and the benefits of it.

This country needs a President Cruz badly. I can wait to salute him.


65 posted on 06/23/2015 5:26:40 PM PDT by parksstp (Cruz it or lose it. Ahead with Ted. 2016)
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To: parksstp; xzins
By admitting your opposition to ANY TPA, you are putting yourself at odds with the likes of Mark Levin, whom although he is steadfastly against any TPA while Obama is in office, said today he would support a “clean” free-trade (TPA) that was truly a trade bill only and negotiated by a conservative President in the WH. If you don’t even support that idea, then you obviously don’t understand the concepts behind free trade and the benefits of it.

Most "trade agreements" meet the definition of a TREATY according to the definition used by the founders. Since they are treaties they should not be fast tracked. They must be negotiated by the president with the advice and 2/3 consent of the Senate.

I am an originalist and a strict constructionist. I don't believe in a "living" constitution.

That being said, can you name a single fast tracked trade agreement that has been a net positive for the United States of America?

Name one.

Just one.

66 posted on 06/23/2015 5:32:39 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Saying that ISIL is not Islamic is like saying Obama is not an Idiot.)
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To: P-Marlowe; 2ndDivisionVet; SoConPubbie

It’s a no win situation. Cruz says there was a lot of crooked dealing that was taking place behind the scenes.

Apparently, he didn’t catch onto it fast enough. That’s not a good thing to be acknowledging.


67 posted on 06/23/2015 6:07:31 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray for their victory or quit saying you support our troops)
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To: parksstp

Name one.

Just one.

Still waiting.


68 posted on 06/23/2015 6:47:21 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Saying that ISIL is not Islamic is like saying Obama is not an Idiot.)
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To: xzins; SoConPubbie; 2ndDivisionVet
It’s a no win situation. Cruz says there was a lot of crooked dealing that was taking place behind the scenes. Apparently, he didn’t catch onto it fast enough. That’s not a good thing to be acknowledging.

If Cruz didn't know that there was a lot of crooked wheeling and dealing going on behind the scenes on these bills, then he is not ready to be a Senator, much less a president. Obama was in favor of this bill. Shouldn't that make it obvious that there was a lot of crooked politics going on?

He's just looking for some excuse to explain his change of mind without admitting that he changed his mind.

That is the kind of politicking that turns me off no matter who is doing it.

Why can't he just say those three magic words that every wife wants to hear from her husband.... I WAS WRONG.

69 posted on 06/23/2015 6:52:48 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Saying that ISIL is not Islamic is like saying Obama is not an Idiot.)
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To: P-Marlowe

Again, who is your boy?


70 posted on 06/23/2015 6:55:13 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You can help: https://donate.tedcruz.org/c/FBTX0095/)
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To: P-Marlowe; SoConPubbie
If Cruz didn't know that there was a lot of crooked wheeling and dealing going on behind the scenes on these bills, then he is not ready to be a Senator, much less a president.

I truly was drawn to his belief system. That belief system is still part of him. That is still a positive.

I was drawn to his ability. That has been tarnished.

I was drawn to his willingness to stand for what is right. I will admit that he stood firm on TPA. It's good to know that he'll take his knocks, even when he's wrong.

As I said my assessment of his ability has been lowered. Instead of being a 10 on a scale of 10, he is now a 7 or 8. He admits to being misled by McConnell.

71 posted on 06/23/2015 6:59:17 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray for their victory or quit saying you support our troops)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; xzins; SoConPubbie

I have only contributed to one candidate in this race... Ted Cruz.

He has sorely disappointed me and his defenders on this thread who are making excuses for his sudden switch are not helping.

He wasn’t deceived unless he is incredibly naive. He voted FOR TPA and then the SHTF from his supporters and now he has backtracked.

I got a ton of e-mails this week from Ted and Heidi begging me to contribute more. I responded to every one saying that unless he votes against TPA when it comes back he will never see another dime from me.

Well he voted against it, but if he can’t admit that he screwed up with the first vote and quit blaming it on others, then I’m still not going to give him another dime.

Right now I don’t have a candidate. With 100 people in the race, why should I choose now? My primary isn’t for another year.


72 posted on 06/23/2015 7:00:30 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Saying that ISIL is not Islamic is like saying Obama is not an Idiot.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; xzins
Again, who is your boy?

Tell me 2DV, can you name a single fast tracked trade agreement that has been a net positive for We the People of the United States of America?

Just one.

73 posted on 06/23/2015 7:02:57 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Saying that ISIL is not Islamic is like saying Obama is not an Idiot.)
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To: P-Marlowe

So you won’t admit you support another candidate. Just like most all of the other detractors, huh?


74 posted on 06/23/2015 7:04:05 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You can help: https://donate.tedcruz.org/c/FBTX0095/)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; xzins
So you won’t admit you support another candidate. Just like most all of the other detractors, huh?

Because I DON'T.

Why can't you accept that fact? Have I ever lied to you before?

If I thought she would run and had a chance to win, I'd be sending all my money to Sarah Palin. She was right on TPA. She didn't have to backtrack because the funds were drying up.

75 posted on 06/23/2015 7:06:29 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Saying that ISIL is not Islamic is like saying Obama is not an Idiot.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Now, name that fast track trade agreement that has been a net positive for the United States.


76 posted on 06/23/2015 7:07:29 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Saying that ISIL is not Islamic is like saying Obama is not an Idiot.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; P-Marlowe; Jane Long; fortheDeclaration

2D, I’ve followed Cruz since he broke on the scene in the Senate. I waded through all the nonsense birther threads, did background study, found it was clear that Cruz is eligible to be president.

Initially, I tried to find a way around his H1B visa plan, hoping it was a poison pill offered to the gang of 8 compromise on amnesty.

Then Ted Cruz doubled down on H1B. I had been wrong. He really was supporting that mess.

I opposed on principle giving any power to Obama to do anything. As I read more about TPA, it was clear that there were trusted Senators like Sessions saying “not so fast, this has other stuff in the fine print.”

Cruz and his supporters decided that Sessions was wrong.

Then Cruz decided he was wrong and TPA 1 was bad, that he had been misled. He also came out against TPA 2. He voted against it today.

That is a chronology of events. During this period, Cruz’s numbers have dropped until he’s in 9th place of a 10 person poll that will determine if he’ll even BE in the first debate. While I think that’s a stupid plan, it nonetheless is reality. Cruz has injured himself with all this.

The numbers show it. More importantly, what I’m hearing shows it. He’s not being talked up around me where I live. I’m hearing Walker. I live in Ohio, so I also hear Kasich from people who will then smile. We know that’s not going anyplace. He’s probably campaigning for Vice President.

But make no mistake, I’ve been a Cruz supporter, and verifiably so for anyone will to do the work of checking my past posts. The same with so many others. You do not aid their returning to Cruz support by questioning their integrity when their posting history is there for you to check out.


77 posted on 06/23/2015 7:14:59 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Pray for their victory or quit saying you support our troops)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Tell me 2DV, can you name a single fast tracked trade agreement that has been a net positive for We the People of the United States of America?

Just one.

I’m waiting.


78 posted on 06/23/2015 9:40:51 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Saying that ISIL is not Islamic is like saying Obama is not an Idiot.)
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To: P-Marlowe

So you think I’m at your beck-and-call? And you’re a lawyer?


79 posted on 06/23/2015 9:41:56 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You can help: https://donate.tedcruz.org/c/FBTX0095/)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Name one fast track trade agreement that has been a net positive for the United States.

You think it’s a good idea to pass TPA, so there must be at least one trade agreement in the last 100 years that was fast tracked that actually benefited the United States.

So far not one fast track supporter has named a single trade agreement that falls into that category.

Can you name just one?


80 posted on 06/23/2015 9:47:21 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (Saying that ISIL is not Islamic is like saying Obama is not an Idiot.)
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