The Palestinian connection - From the very beginning

WorldNetDaily ^ | 04/24/2001 | ANTHONY C. LOBAIDO

[100American]

“In 600 B.C., when Babylon invaded Israel, thousands of Israelis were moved to Babylon (today’s Iraq) and the Edomites were moved into Israel. The Edomites even helped the Babylonians destroy Jerusalem and the temple (Psalm 137). When a remnant of Israel returned after the Babylonian captivity, the Edomites were there to wage war against them while the city and the temple were being rebuilt.

“While the scriptures are silent for the 400 years between the book of Malachi and the birth of Jesus, Josephus records the struggle between the Edomeans and the Israelites. This racial division and strife in the land prevented Israel from regaining any semblance of its former glory. The nation was easy prey for the Roman Empire on its march to world conquest.

“The Romans favored the Edomeans over the Jews because Jews would not compromise their religion and worship Caesar or allow idols in the Temple. The Romans placed Edomean stooges like the Herods in places of authority. Josephus recorded an endless list of the most heinous crimes committed by the Herods against the Jews.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2001/04/8961/#tvfJCx5ByrckwY3C.99

[100American]

Interesting. food for thought and research...

[knarf]

someone stole your % and Jim won’t allow you to put it back in ?

[100American]

Had an issue years ago back in the Clinton days and somehow missed that..

Oh Well

Sic Semper Tyrranus!

[Candor7]

Ancient Jewish history Ping.

[knarf]

molan labe !

[Cronos]

While the scriptures are silent for the 400 years between the book of Malachi and the birth of Jesus -- not really, the Books of the Maccabees record how the Maccabees fought

[Cronos]

Though the premise has a number of holes in it

The area that is now around Petra was Edom before the 2nd century BC. The Edomites were Semites similar to the Israelites or Arabs

When they were conquered by the Maccabees, they were converted forcibly (the house of Herod was Idumean) and assimilated with the Judaic population (not too difficult as they were ethnically kin and their languages must have been inter-intelligible.

When they moved into Israel, their lands were taken by Semites (Nabateans) from southern Arabia

What is now Israel-Jordan was with a mix of Judaics, Greeks, Romans, Idumeans etc. etc.

With the Bar-kochkba revolt, the Jews were banished from Jerusalem, the Jewish converts stayed in Israel along with Arab, Idumean, Greek etc. converts (and I mean converts from Judaism to whatever)

Over the Christian centuries, the population would have been a mix of multiple ethnicities

Under the Ottomans this was a neglected backwater with a population in the thousands, with the irrigation untended and so reverting to desert

When the Jews came back, they made the desert blossom and so attracted Arab or Egyptian workers

The present day "Palestinian" is a mix of all of these ethnicities -- with definitely some Jewish blood amongst them as well as Samaritan, Idumean, Greek, Roman, Arab, Egyptian, Syrian etc.

[gattaca]

ping for later

[Hostage]

But the Books of the Maccabees are not scripture, they were excluded from the Hebrew canon, why do you think they were so excluded?

[Cronos]

This is a good, simple, online, starting point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_the_Old_Testament_canon

with a link to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudepigrapha

Basically, Luther agreed with the Jews (who asserted 'cessation of inspiration' because they were used so successfully by Christians to convert Jews) and he dropped them from his translation. His primary initial reasoning was that they supported doctrines, in whole or in part, that he didn't agree with. I personally don't think much of Luther's argument against these OT books due to the wealth of prophesies about Christ in them. It's at least worth noting that Luther also wanted to drop Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation, from the NT.

The arguments over whether he was justified in doing so will never end and you can get into as scholarly or as heated a debate (even heated and scholarly debates) over the matter as you like at the drop of a hat. Calvin, like Luther, had his own opinions of what should be included in the Bible and is worth looking into if you're going to pursue why the canon has changed since Christ. Given that He didn't mention anything that needed to be thrown out of the Bible in use while he was on earth, I actually don't understand arguments over the canon. It's too much like rolling your own like a lot of cults do for me to be comfortable with not just sticking to what was in the Septuagint (which I can never spell without checking first).

If you want to do further research it’s tough to find something without an agenda. I think just downloading the following book from the Google thing is a good start because it’s exhaustive enough without much of an agenda (as I recall) and can be very useful for other things as well. Especially for seeing how the usage of words has changed since 1910.

“The popular and critical Bible encyclopædia and Scriptural dictionary” - Herbert Lockwood Willett

http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC05742122&id=rl3lcbLkHV0C&pg=PA521&lpg=PA521&dq=luther+%22are+useful+and+good+to+read%22#v=onepage&q=luther%20%22are%20useful%20and%20good%20to%20read%22&f=false

Regards

[Cronos]

I think at the very least these give an idea about the interesting happenings between the return of the exiles and the Birth of Christ, laying down the historical background. That's how I initially picked up these books.

And, interestingly, when we read this Chapter 1 and Chapter 2 of 1 Maccabees, we read how Antiochus defiled the Holy Temple and put an abomination in there and the righteous Jews fled to the mountains.

And this connects with Matthew 24:15-20

[15] When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand.
[16] Then they that are in Judea, let them flee to the mountains:
[17] And he that is on the housetop, let him not come down to take any thing out of his house:
[18] And he that is in the field, let him not go back to take his coat.
[19] And woe to them that are with child, and that give suck in those days.
[20] But pray that your flight be not in the winter, or on the sabbath.

And you see the parallels in 1 Macc 1.34 "And they took the women captive, and the children, and the cattle they possessed" and 39 "And they shed innocent blood round about the sanctuary, and defiled the holy place"
and 1 MAcc 2:32-38

And forthwith they went out towards them, and made war against them on the sabbath day, [33] And they said to them: Do you still resist? come forth, and do according to the edict of king Antiochus, and you shall live. [34] And they said: We will not come forth, neither will we obey the king's edict, to profane the sabbath day.
[35] And they made haste to give them battle.
[36] But they answered them not, neither did they cast a stone at them, nor stopped up the secret places,
[37] Saying: Let us all die in our innocency: and heaven and earth shall be witnesses for us, that you put us to death wrongfully.
[38] So they gave them battle on the sabbath: and they were slain with their wives, and their children, and their cattle, to the number of a thousand persons

Jesus was no doubt drawing on the historical memory of the Jews

[Cronos]

Remember scripture is written under divine inspiration.

the book of Kings and Judges are cases in point and if you look at the Psalms by David or the Proverbs or books by Solomon -- were these two Prophets? Not really, however, they were inspired by God to write what they wrote

Also, do note 2 Macc. 15:11-16 where Judah Maccabees gets his prophetic vision

[SJackson]

Middle East and terrorism, occasional political and Jewish issues Ping List. High Volume

If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.

..................

[Hostage]

Thank you for all the insight, information and links.

[Cronos]

And thank you for asking so nicely. We may disagree on their scriptural value, but I would like to point out that their historical worth is very apparent

[Fred Nerks]

Get yourself a copy of WORLDS IN COLLISION. It’s full of ancient Jewish History.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks 100American.

[Candor7]

Will do!